Report of the commissioners and evidence taken by the Committee on Mines and Mining of the House of Representatives ... in regard to the Sutro tunnel : together with the arguments and report of the Committee, recommending a loan by the government in aid of the construction of said work

United States. Sutro Tunnel Commission · 1872 · Historical

The cost of the tunnel, the branch and all the shafts, is estimated at $4,418,329 50 in gold. Professor Wesley Newcomb, examined by Messrs. Rice and Sutro.

This 1872 document, Report of the commissioners and evidence taken by the Committee on Mines and Mining of the House of Representatives ... in regard to the Sutro tunnel : together with the arguments and report of the Committee, recommending a loan by the government in aid of the construction of said work, is preserved in the Mountain Man Mining Library for research and reference. Original source: archive.org.

Report Of The Commissioners

And

Evidence

Taken By

THE COMMITTEE ON MINES AND MINING OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES,

In Regard To

The Suteo Tunnel,

Together With

The Arguments

And

Report Of The Committee,

Recommending A

Loan By The Government In Aid Of The Construction Of Said Work.

V

Washington, D. C. :

M'Qill & Witherow Printers And Stereotypers, 1872.

Table Of Contents.

Pacjk.

Law authorizing the Commission 5

Committee on Mines and Mining 7

Report of Commissioners 9-66

Evidence.

Ist Hearing, Monday, February 12, 1872.

Major General John G. Foster, examined by Mr. Sutro :. 1-23

2D Hearing, Feij:Av, February, 16, 1872.

Major General John G. Foster, examined by Mr. Sutro, (con.) 23-76

Sd Hearing, Tuesday, February 20, 1872. ^

Major General John G. Foster, examined by Mr. Sutro, (con.) 76-104

Mr. Sunderland 104-116

" 4iH HEARING, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 1872.

Major General John G. Foster, examined by Mr. Sunderland, (con.).. 116-150 STH HEARING, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 1872.

Professor Wesley Newcomb, examined by Mr. Sutro 150-190

Mr. Sunderland 190-197

6ia HEARING, SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1872.

Professor Wesley Newcomb, examined by Messrs. Rice and Sutro. 197-230 7TH HEARING, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 1872.

Professor Wesley Newcomb, examined by Mr. Sunderland 234-283

8iH HEARING, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1872.

Professor Wesley Newcomb, examined by Mr. Sunderland 280-298

Mr. Sutro 298-314

9iH HEARING, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1872.

Major General H. G.Wright, examined by Mr. Sutro 314-358

lOin; HEARING, THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 29, 1872.

Major General H.G.Wright, examined by Mr. Sutro 358-399

HTH HEARING, FRIDAY, MARCH 1, 1872. Major General H. G.Wright, examined by Mr. Sunderland 399-437

Committee On Mines And Mining

Of The

House Of Representatives Of United States:

Hon. HENRY WALDRON, of Michigan, Chairman.

" AARON A. SARGENT, of California.

" NATHANIEL P. BANKS, of Massachusetts.

" WORTHINGTON C. SMITH, of Vermont.

" JAMES S. NEGLEY, of Pennsylvania.

" WALTER L. SESSIONS, of New York.

" FRANCIS E. SHOBER, of North Carolina.

" PIERCE M. B. YOUNG, of Georgia.

" CHARLES W. KENDALL, of Nevada.

Appointed

To Take Evidence In Regard To The Sutro Tunnel

HOD. JAMES S. NEGLEY, of Pennsylvania, Chairman. " WALTER L. SESSIONS, of New York. " FRANCIS E. SHOBER, of North Carolina. " CHARLES W. KENDALL, of Nevada.

2d Session. I i No. 15.

Lettee

From

The Secretary Of War,

Transmitting

The report of the commission to examine and report upon the Sutro Tunnel,

in Nevada.

JANUARY 9, 1872.— Referred to the Committee on Mines and Mining and ordered to

be printed.

War Department,

January 6, 1872.

The Secretary of War lias the honor to submit to the United States Senate and House of Bepresentatives the report of the commission appointed by the President, under act of Congress approved April 4, 1871, to examine and report upon the Sutro Tunnel, in Nevada.

Wm. W. Belknap,

Secretary of War.

Office Of The Chief Of Engineers,

SIR : I transmit herewith the report and accompanying papers of the commission appointed under the authority of the act of Congress approved April 4, 1871, " to examine and report upon the Sutro Tunnel, in the State of Nevada, authorized to be constructed by an act of Congress approved July 25, 18G6, with special reference to the importance, feasibility, cost, and time required to construct the same ; the value of the bullion extracted from mines on the Com stock lode ; their present and probable future production; also, the geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work, and its general bearing upon our mining and other national interests in ascertaining the practicability of deep mining."

The report presents the views of the commission briefly and clearly.

Under the head of importance of the tunnel, the commission is of the opinion that the tunnel is not a necessity for ventilation or drainage, but that any scheme which promises increased economy in working the mines and rendering valuable the vast amount of now worthless low-grade ores in the Coinstock lode, becomes of national importance. Whether the Sutro Tunnel project fulfills this condition of economy depends, in the opinion of the commission, upon the practicability of securing a sufficient water-power from the Carson Itiver, at all seasons, for the reduction of the ores, and upon the efficacy of the methods

2 Sutro Tunnel.

employed in Germany and other countries in Europe for the concentration of ores. On the first point the commission has no doubt. On the second it has not been able to obtain the desired information.

On the feasibility of the tunnel, the opinion of the commission is in favor of the entire feasibility of the project, so far as its construction is concerned.

The cost of the tunnel, the branch and all the shafts, is estimated at $4,418,329 50 in gold.

The time of completion is estimated at three and one-half years, which may be reduced to two and one-third years, if machinery be judiciously employed.

The value of the bullion extracted from the mines of the Comstock lode, according to the information the commisiou was able to gather, is $125,000,000.

The present annual production the commission place at $15,000,000.

As regards the probable future yield, the commission says :

No claim can be made to anything like accuracy, except in the few instances in which ore-bodies are now developed. The commission has already stated its belief in the lode being what is known as a true fissure-vein, or as continuing downward indefinitely in the crust of the earth ; but whether the vein will continue to be orc-bearing cannot be predicted with any degree of certainty. It is a matter of opinion, to be based, however, upon probabilities and the actual results experienced in deep mining in other parts of the world. These, in the judgment of the commission, favor the finding of ore down to the lowest depths that can be reached ; and that this opinion is shared by most of the mining authorities, seems to be shown by their continued downward search.

The report concludes with the opinion that, as an exploring work for deep mining, the Sutro Tunnel may justly claim favorable consideration. The information to be obtained from, an examination by a commission of the methods followed in the mines of Germany and England, appears to be of such importance as to recommend itself to the favorable consideration of Congress.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

A. A. HUMPHREYS, Brigadier General and Chief of Engineers. The Hon. the SECRETARY OF WAR.

Bepobt Of The Sutro Tunnel Commission.

Office Sutro Tunnel Commission,

New York, December I, 1871.

GENERAL : I have the honor to forward herewith the report of the Sutro Tunnel commission, and in separate packages, the following :

Package containing maps, plans, and drawings, marked from 1 to 11, inclusive.

Package containing estimate, circular letter, reports of superintendents of mining companies, &c., marked from A to L, inclusive.

The special information asked for by Mr. Sutro was received in time to be used in making the report ; but the papers which he was requested to furnish, inasmuch as the opponents of the project had been invited to do the same, has not come to hand. It may be expected daily, and

Sutro Tunnel. 3'

when received will be forwarded with request that it be added to tKe< papers accompanying the report.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant.

H. G.WRIGHT, Lieutenant Colonel of Engineers, Brevet Major General,

Senior Officer of Commission. Brigadier General A. A. HUMPHREYS,

Chief of Engineers, United States Army,

Office Sutro Tunnel Commission,

New Yorlc, November 30, 1871.

GENERAL: The commission appointed under the authority of the act of Congress approved April 4, 1871, u to examine and report upon the Sutro Tunnel in the State of Nevada," having completed the duties assigned to it under said act, has the honor to submit the following report :

The members of the commission met in this city, in pursuance of your instructions, on the 9th of June, and after organizing and making the necessary preliminary arrangements, including a visit to, and examination of the Hoosac Tunnel in Massachusetts, proceeded to Nevada, arriving at Virginia City on the 29th of that month, and at once entered upon the duties with which they were charged. From that date to the 7th of August the commission^ was constantly occupied with its investigations, during which period it examined pretty thoroughly the mines on the Comstock and other lodes in the vicinity, the country in the neighborhood within a general radius of fifteen miles, with a view to ascertaining its topographical and geological character, and conferred with the mining authorities, miners, and others interested in the great and almost sole industrial interest of that section of Nevada.

Every facility was aiforded the commission by the mining authorities and the people^generally ; the desire seeming to be on all hands to give the opportunity for a lull and complete investigation of a subject in which the entire community was so deeply interested. To the superintendents of the various mines the commission is especially indebted for the large mass of information aiforded by them, both verbally and in writing, in relation to the mines under their control. The latter portion will be found in their reports in the appendix, made in response to the interrogatories of the commission, a copy of which is also appended. To those papers frequent reference will be made in the course of this report. Mr. Sutro, the projector of the tunnel, was also present during most of the time the commission was in Nevada, and was always ready to afford information, and, from his familiarity with the subject, to suggest ready means for obtaining information from other sources.

The duties of the commission, as prescribed by the law under which it was appointed, were, ato examine and report upon the Sutro Tunnel, in the State of Nevada, authorized to be constructed by an act of Congress approved July 25, 186G, with special reference to the importance, feasibility, cost, and time required to construct the same ; the value of the bullion extracted from the mines on the Comstock lode ; their present and probable future production ; also, the geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work, and its general bearing upon our

4 Sutro Tunnel.

mining and other national interests in ascertaining the practicability of deep mining.'7

To the above points the investigations of the commission, although naturally embracing a wide range, were particularly directed, and to them this report will be strictly conlined, treating of" them in the order in which they are given in the act above quoted.

Importance Of The Tunnel.

in treating of the importance of this work, it seems proper to give a brief general description of the Coin stock lode, referring for an account of its geological character to that part of the report which treats of the " geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work."

The term lode is applied to " any regular vein, whether metallic or not, but commonly to a metallic vein," and will in this report be considered as applying to that fissure in Nevada which traverses Virginia City and Gold Hill, and is generally known as the " Comstock." This fissure or rent in the earth has an extent not yet fully developed, but which reaches certainly from the Ophir mine on the north to the Uncle Sam and Overman on the south, a distance of 12,000 feet. Beyond these points the lode is supposed to extend to the north and south to the Seven-mile Canon in the former direction, and to the American Flat in the latter. It may, therefore, be said that while the fissure itself is believed to have been traced from the diggings known as the Utah mines on the north to the locality known as the American Flat or " American City" on the south, a length of about 22,000 feet, yet the portion of the lode now worked is comprised between the Ophir on the north and Overman on the south, or a distance of about 12,000 feet, or, say, two and one-quarter miles. This portion of the lode may, as is usually done, be divided into three groups, the " Ophir," the "" Gould & Curry," and the " Gold Hill." The two former may be considered as within the limits of Virginia City, the last being in the town of Gold Hill 5 the two towns being, however, so connected that the stranger is at a loss to determine where one ends and the other commences. Both of these towns rest absolutely upon the lode, and the mine-shafts rise directly in the midst of the streets and houses. The lode has a dip or angle of inclination to the east of about 45°, varying in either direction some 10°. This variation, as might be expected, often occurs within small limits of extent of therein, but generally keeps within those of 38° and 55° of inclination to the horizon.

The croppings or surface indications of the lode are generally west of the towns of Virginia City and Gold Hill, which, as before remarked, are in most part over the workings of the lode.

In the earlier days of mining upon the Comstock, the work was prosecuted to some extent by means of adits or horizontal tunnels ; but as depth was attained, this process was necessarily abandoned owing to the configuration of the country immediately about it, and working by means of vertical shafts was exclusively followed. All the mines of the lode now worked are operated in this manner — that is, a vertical shaft is sunk in the " east country " rock, which, at a depth that can be pretty closely estimated, will reach the lode, and after passing through it into the "west country" rock, is generally continued in the latter upon an angle corresponding with the inclination of the west wall at the point of junction. From these shafts at various depths or "levels," usually about 100 feet apart, drifts or small tunnels are run horizontally in various directions through the lode to ascertain its ore-bearing char-

Sutro Tunnel. 5

acter ; and through them the ore and debris are brought to the shafts and raised to the surface by steam-power. The water met with in the workings is pumped to the surface through these shafts by the agency of the steam machinery, and air for ventilation is forced by blowers down the shafts, through wooden boxes, and distributed through pipes to the various working headings.

The ore thus brought to the surface is taken from the " dumps," in which it is first deposited, by wagons or railway-cars, and transported to the mills for reduction. These mills are scattered over the country wherever water is to be found, the greatest distance being about eighteen miles. With the exception of those on the Carson River, which are run by water-power, these mills are worked by steam ; the water to be obtained being sufficient for the purposes of reduction only, and not for power. Indeed many of these steam-mills were idle during our visit, for the want of water, and the water-mills on the Carson River were generally working up to a part only of their capacities for the same reason.

In the early days of mining on the Comstock lode, several excellent wagon-roads of easy grades were constructed, leading to the mill-sites and to the sources of supply of the lumber and the fuel needed in the working of the mines 5 but these are now in a great degree supplanted by a railroad recently constructed from Virginia City to Carson City, passing through Gold Hill, and having branches leading to the principal reduction-works. By this road a large part of the ore extracted from the mines is transported to the mills, and most of the lumber and wood used for mining purposes is brought back on the return trips. This road, which is a fine example of railway engineering over a difficult country, is about twenty-two miles in length, not including its branches, and is reported to have cost about $2,000,000. It is about to be connected with Reno, a station on the Central Pacific Railroad, by an extension from Carson City to the latter point, but at the time of our visit its principal business was the transportation of ore from the mines to the mills, and of lumber and fuel for the supply of the mines.

One of the objects of the tunnel, as will be seen further on, is to change almost wholly the mode of working the mines just described. The tunnel, which is to be nearly rectangular in cross-section, having a height of 12 feet, with a width "at bottom of 14 feet, and at top of 13 feet, commences at a point in the valley of the Carson River, and running in a direction nearly perpendicular to the Comstock ledge, is to intersect it at a level of 1,898£ feet below the point of the croppings, marked A on the map, to which the various levels of the mines are referred. At or near this point of intersection a cross-tunnel of similar dimensions is to run along the ledge, and to communicate with all the mines. A commencement of 70 feet only in length has been made on the main tunnel, more with a view to showing what is designed than for any other purpose, and a drift six feet by seven in cross section had been extended under the intervening mountains about 2,300 feet at the time of our visit. It is understood that this length had been increased to 2,530 feet on the 14th of November. The map No. 1. herewith, of the country in the vicinity of the Comstock, shows the positions ami directions of the main and cross tunnels, and the sheet marked No. 2, a section and profile of the grounds on the line of the tunnel. The cross section of the tunnel and of the drift or preliminary tunnel, upon, which work is at present prosecuted, are shown on sheet marked No. 3. The length of the main tunnel will be 19,790 feet, or about three and three quarter miles, and the cross tunnel, if extended only so far as to include

6 Suteo Tunnel.

the mines now being worked, about 12,000 feet, or about two and one-quarter miles. Should the ledge north of the Ophir and south of the LFucle Sam and Overman be again worked, the cross-tunnel must be increased in length correspondingly. In our estimates of costs we have considered the main and cross tunnels separately, and have restricted the latter to the limits of the Ophir on the north and the Uncle Sam and Overman on the south. Drawings exhibiting plans of all the mines within the above limits will be found with this report, marked 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11.

The principal advantages of the proposed tunnel in relation to the mines, as claimed by Mr. Sutro, may be stated briefly as follows.

1st. The improved ventilation of the mines, resulting from the current of air which, entering the tunnel at its outer extremity, and passing through it and up into the mines and out at their present shafts, will so cool and purify the heated, stagnant atmosphere of the drifts and stopes as to preserve the health of the miner, and enable him to accomplish a greater amount of labor than would otherwise be possible.

2d. The drainage of the mines above the level of the tunnel — an object which is now accomplished by means of costly machinery and at great expense. On the connection of the tunnel with a mine, the water in the latter would discharge itself without the intervention of machinery and without cost.

3d. A largely increased economy in the working of the mines by taking the ore through the tunnel to reduction works at its mouth, instead of raising the same to the surface and transporting it, often to a much greater distance, to the mills now established.

4th. Its value as an exploring work in cutting at considerable depths several mineral veins or lodes known to exist to the eastward of the Coinstock, all of which have been, and at some points continue to be, worked for the precious metals 5 also, in a geological point of view, in determining the depth at which precious ores will be found in our country in what may be considered as true fissure-veins.

These claims on the part of the advocates of the tunnel will be considered in the order in which they have been stated, with the exception of the last, which can be more properly treated under the head of "the practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work.'7

Ventilation.

At the time the tunnel was projected, and the act of Congress of July 25, 18G6, was passed, the mines on the Coinstock lode were undoubtedly much embarrassed in their operations by the lack of proper ventilation. The atmosphere in their stopes and drifts was hot and stagnant, and any relief, such as was promised by the tunnel, might well be viewed as indispensable by the mining authorities and miners to the further prosecution of their search for the precious metals. A stagnant atmosphere and a temperature of over one hundred degrees might well occasion misgivings of success in their attempts upon the lower and therefore hotter levels. At that time each mine was worked independently o£the others, upon its own ground, with its single shaft forming the only communication between its stopes and drifts and the surface. Without the aid of mechanical ventilation, it is not surprising that, at a depth of three or four hundred feet even, the air of the mines should have severely taxed the miner's powers, and induced the belief that further search into the heated bowels of the earth would be impossible,

Sutro Tunnel. 7

unless sonic artificial aid, such as the proposed tunnel promised to afford, should be provided.

But this very necessity for an improved and increased ventilation indicated one of the means by which it might, in a great degree at any rate, be accomplished. The drifts of contiguous mines were connected together, an air current was established down the shaft of one and up the other, passing in its transit through such of the drifts, stopes, and winzes as were between them, thus purifying and cooling the atmosphere in those parts of both. For the portions of the mines which were influenced imperfectly or not at all by the current of air thus established, recourse was had to blowers operated by the steam-power employed in hoisting. By means of these blowers air could be forced through pipes to all parts of the mines not affected sufficiently by the natural ventilation established by the subterranean connection just alluded to. At the time of our visit, the mines were generally well ventilated, and the miners with whom we conversed did not com plain 5 and in the cases in which a more effective change of air was needed, steps were being-taken to accomplish it.

It is, therefore, the opinion of the commission that, while the proposed tunnel would increase and improve the ventilation of the mines and possibly dispense with the use of some part of the means for artificial ventilation now employed, it is not a necessity for ventilation. Even with all the aid that the tunnel can be expected to afford, it is the opinion of the commission that mechanical ventilation by blowers, operated by steam or other power, would still be needed at the headings and in the stopes where the air from the tunnel would not penetrate.

According to natural laws as at present understood and received, the air entering the proposed tunnel would pass through it and up the shafts of the mines by the easiest and therefore by the most direct channels, thereby conferring little if any benefit upon the stopes and drifts not in the line of such direct transit. Hence the necessity which is assumed for a continuance of mechanical ventilation for certain portions of the mines after the completion of the tunnel.

And here it may be proper to allude to certain anomalies observed in the ventilation of the mines on the Comstock lode, as well as in mines upon lodes lying to the eastward. According to the received laws of ventilation it would have been assumed that, in the case of two shafts connected at bottom by drifts, the air current would pass down the lower and through the drifts up the higher, and that this rule w^uld be without exception where not influenced by circumstances of situation or artificial causes ; that, in the case of a long adit or tunnel, the inner extremity of which was connected with the surface by a shaft, the outer being directly upon the side of the mountain, the current would be through the the tunnel and up the shaft. In the former case the current was found to be sometimes in one direction and sometimes in the other, it having been permanently changed in one instance, after the occurrence of a fire in one of the mines thus connected ; the down-draught having been through the shorter shaft before the fire, and through the longer ever since. In the latter case, which applies to two tunnels visited by the commission, the down-draught was into and downward through the shafts and out of the tunnels in a very strongly perceptible current. In view, therefore, of these anomalies, it would seem uncertain whether the current of air would pass through the proposed tunnel into the mines and out through the shafts, or the reverse. So far as the ventilation is concerned, it will be of little importance which way the current should pass. Probably the mines would be the

8 Sutro Tunnel.

more benefited by its passing downward through them and out of the tunnel than in the reverse direction.

Drainage.

In the early days of mining upon the Comstock, much trouble was experienced from water which accumulated in the mines, and occasioned the necessity for powerful and expensive machinery for drainage. When, therefore, the tunnel was proposed, it was looked upon as an important accessory to further mining operations in affording a ready and effective means of draining the ledge without the recourse to costly mechanical contrivances. It was then assumed, naturally enough, that the lower the depth the greater the amount of water to contend against, and serious doubts appear to have been entertained of the possibility of freeing the mines from water by mechanical means. The construction of the tunnel seemed, therefore, a necessity. But as greater depths were attained it was discovered that the water, instead of permeating the earth to an indefinite extent, was mainly confined to near the suriace ; that below a few hundred feet it was struck in limited quantities only. It was also discovered that this water, instead of being generally diffused, was collected in pockets bounded by impermeable seams of clay, which, when pierced, had only to be drained to exhaust the supply. As the mining operations have increased in depth, these pockets or reservoirs have become less frequent and formidable, till in many of the deepest the water is not only not troublesome, but is found in less quantity than is needed for the purposes of the mines themselves, thus necessitating the purchase of water from the company which furnishes the same to the inhabitants of Gold Hill and Virginia City, or from other and wetter mines. By reference to the statements of the superintendents, appended to this report, it will be seen that the cost of pumping for all the mines did not, probably, exceed $150,000 for the past year, and that in some of them there was no water at all. This sum exceeds that arrived at by the commission — viz, $124,674 — which was obtained by taking the costs as given for the mines, so far as reported, and estimating for the others.

Taking, then, the observations of the commission in connection with the statements of the superintendents of the mining companies, we are of the opinion that the tunnel for this purpose alone is not a necessity for the drainage of the Comstock lode. That it will effectively drain all those with which it shall be connected is obvious ; but the same result can be attained by present means at less cost — a cost wrhich, moreover, promises to become still smaller as the mines progress in depth.

Under the present system of operating the mines, the ore and the refuse rock are raised to the surface through the shafts by steam-power, the ore being transported to the mills by wagons or by the railroad before alluded to, and the refuse rock deposited at the dumps contiguous to the shafts. The items of expense, as given by the superintendents, vary somewhat, as might have been expected, in view of the different circumstances in each. The average of certain of the more important of them may, however, be stated with sufficient accuracy, as follows :

Cost per ton of hoisting from depths vary ing from 1,250 to 1,750 feet, being

the average reported for seven of the principal mines of the lode $0 51. 17

Cost of pumping for the year ending June 30, 1871, as arrived at by the commission, by taking the cost of the mines as far as reported and estimating for the rest „ 124,674 00

Sutro Tunnel. 9

Tbc superintendent of the Ophir mine, a very intelligent man, estimates the total cost for pumping1 oil the Comstock lode for the past year as not exceeding $150, 000 00

If we assume what appears from the reports and from other sources as an average yield of the mines — viz: 365,600 tons annually — the cost for certain items of expense by the present method of working will be as follows :

Hoisting 365.600 tons of pay ore, at 51.17 cents $187, 077 52

Transportation of same to mills, at $1 50 548, 400 00

Pumping for last year, (commission's estimate) 124, 674 00

Hoisting and lowering 3,000 miners, at 8 cents each way, or 16 cents

each 175,000 00

Total 1,035,151 52

In the above statement the cost of hoisting the refuse rock from the drifts, .winzes, &c., is not included, as the quantity is wholly indeterminate, being the greatest in those mines where prospecting alone is being carried on, and the least in those which are working upon ore bonanzas. Indeed, in the latter the amount of debris is inconsiderable. It would be of the highest importance to a full and accurate comparison of the cost of working the mines by the present method and by the tunnel, to introduce this item, as it is very considerable, and the expenditure per ton for hoisting it is the same as for ore j but this seems quite impossible, owing to the indefiniteness of the quantity of refuse removed from the mines.

In considering the cost of operating the mines by the tunnel, it must be stated that, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved July 25 1866, the tunnel company is authorized to collect from all the companies mining upon the Comstock lode a royalty of $2 per ton for each and every ton of ore taken from the mines after the tunnel shall be connected with them, Avhether the tunnel be used by the mines or not ; that a tariff of 25 cents per ton per mile (or such lesser sum as may be agreed upon) for the transportation through the tunnel may be established ; also a charge of 25 cents each way for every man connected with the mines who is carried through the tunnel. The cost of working the mines through the tunnel, as compared with the same items as given above for working by the present method, may then be stated as follows:

Lowering 365, 600 tons pay-ore to tunnel level, at 10 cents $36, 560 00

Transportation of same an average of five miles, at $1 25 457, 000 00

Transportation of 3, 000 workmen, at 50 eente=f 1, 500 per day 547J 500 00

To this should be added the royalty of $2 per ton, which for the average production of 365, 600 will amount to 731,200 00

Which makes a total of 1,772,260 00

The item of drainage is not included in the above, as the tunnel will thoroughly drain all the mines connected with it without cost. This is not a favorable showing for the economy of working by the tunnel, but it should be stated that while the act of Congress authorizes the tunnel company to make a charge of 25 cents per ton per mile for transportation of ore, rock, debris, &c., it is claimed by Mr. Sutro that such transportation can be done profitably at 10 cents per ton, and that no higher tariff will be demanded. It is also understood that a similar diminution will be made in the charge for transportation of workmen.

Such reductions in tariff would make a material change in the estimate given above, which would then stand as follows :

Lowering 365,600 tons pay-ore to tunnel level, at 10 cents §36, 560

Transportation of same an average of five miles, at 50 cents 182, 800

Transportation of 3, 000 workmen at 20 cents, or $600 per day 210, 000

433, 360 Royalty on 365,600 tons ore, at $2 731,200

Total '. 1,169,560

Even with this reduction in tariff, the balance would be against working through the tunnel when the royalty, which is the most important item, is included, (at lower levels the comparison would be more favorable ;) and were there no other considerations to be taken into account, the opinion of the commission would necessarily be against the tunnel in the point of economy of operating the mines.

Before presenting these other considerations it should be stated that not one of the superintendents of mines has expressed himself in favor of a change in the present mode of working; and that some of them have given the opinion, in effect, that should the tunnel, when completed, with all its drifts and branches, be offered free of charge, not one mine on the Coinstock would be operated through it, for the reason that the present mode of working would be cheaper and more expeditious. This opinion is, no doubt, founded upon the supposition, as it is indeed stated in one of these reports, that the ore taken through the tunnel to its mouth is afterward to be transported to the present mills, thereby involving a cost for transportation about equal, perhaps, to what is now paid for carrying the ore from the mouths of the shafts to the mills. Were the present mills to be employed for the reduction of the ore brought out through the proposed tunnel, this opinion would, no doubt, be correct, and the tunnel project would have to be condemned. But it is a part, and an essential part, too, of the scheme to have reduction works at the mouth of the tunnel, to be operated by the water-power of the Carson liiver, by which the cost of the further transportation of the ore alluded to above will be saved. This plan, which is one of the considerations to which we have referred, would involve the suppression of the present mills, or at any rate such of them as now draw their supplies of ores from mines which would use the tunnel, and also seriously injure financially the railroad leading to Carson City, which was built for, and mainly depends upon, the carrying of the ores to the reduction works. So far as the milling interests are concerned this would be of comparatively small consequence, and the machinery requires renewal in large part every two or three years, and the mills would be maintained in the interval with a view to their abandonment on the completion of the tunnel or to the transfer of their machinery to new sites at its mouth. To the railroad, however, the results would be more injurious, as the interests outside of the transportation of ore, timber, and other supplies for the mines, would probably not be sufficient for its maintenance. How far these injuries to vested interests should influence action in regard to the construction of the proposed tunnel, is not for the commission to determine. It is clear, however, that the successful working of the tunnel would have an effect upon the railroad similar to that which the latter has produced upon the very excellent and costly wagon-roads which were constructed to facilitate transportation in the earlier days of mining upon the Coins tock.

As has been stated, the tunnel project includes, as an important and,

Sutro Tunnel. 11

indeed, inseparable adjunct, the establishment of mills at its mouth, for the reduction of the ore; and in order that these should be separated cheaply and successfully, a sufficiency of water-power is necessary. Water, to some extent, may be counted upon from the drainage through the tuiiuel, a quantity sufficient, perhaps, for purposes other than motive1 power, but not for running the mills, the power for which, supposing water only is to be used, is to be had from the Carson Eiver alone.

This stream, which has its sources in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and is fed almost entirely from its melting snows, is not at all times to be depended upon in its natural condition for a supply of power. Art is here necessary in aid of nature. At certain seasons of the year this river becomes a rushing torrent, overflowing its banks and covering its valley opposite the mouth of the tunnel for a considerable extent ; at others, it is reduced to a comparatively insignificant rivulet. When the commission was in Nevada, it was represented to be at about its lowest stage, and all its water, when led into the flumes, was insufficient to run the mills established along its valley to their full capacity.

In carrying out fully that part of the project which requires the establishment of mills at the mouth of the tunnel, it will, therefore, be necessary to secure by artificial aid an adequate supply of water for running them at all seasons of the year — at those times in which the flow is insufficient, as well as those in which the supply is far beyond what is necessary. This, it is believed, may be accomplished by the construction of a high dam across a narrow gorge of the Carson Eiver, some five miles above the mouth of the tunnel, which, by damming back its waters, shall form a lake or reservoir that will afford a supply during all seasons of the year, for operating all the mills required for reduction of the ore which can be taken from the Comstock and from the other lodes which may be intersected by the tunnel. That this can be accomplished, the commission does not entertain a doubt ; yet it should be understood that this opinion is based upon observation alone, and not upon its actual survey. It should be here stated, by way of explanation of the reasons why the commission did not institute surveys for ascertaining exactly all the points involved in this connection, was that it did not come within the original project of the Sutro Tunnel scheme, and its importance was not so clearly seen while the commission was in Nevada, as it is at the writing of this report, when the various data, upon which many of its conclusions are founded, have been fully examined and compared. The opinion we have expressed is, however, borne out by the rather imperfect examinations made since our visit by the tunnel company, through the agency of the surveyor general of Nevada. The commission is, however, of the belief that his results are less favorable to the project than a more detailed survey would have shown. The report of the surveyor general, furnished by the tunnel company to the commission, will be found in the appendix.

But should the foregoing be practicable, it still seems necessary to the economical working by the tunnel, as against the present mode of operating the mines, that an improved system of concentration of ores should be established. It is claimed by the advocates of the tunnel that, with an abundant supply of water, concentration works may be put up after the methods followed in the mining regions of Germany and England, by which the refuse matter may be mechanically separated from the valuable ores, so that only one ton in fifty, perhaps, need be subjected to the process of reduction for securing the .precious metals. According to the accounts received of the workings of the German mines, ores assaying less than $5 per ton are mined with profit, and that

Suteo Tunnel.

ID the English mines, in Cornwall, one is worked which produces inlv three ounces ot sll or say $3 9Q tou en P.O rtua s only

yield six ounces and ten ounces respectively, and all at a profit through unproved methods of concentration. The commission l te ex * "sf d much dihgence toward ascertaining the actual facts in ro'' ml to tl ese statements, as they are of the highest importance in coX'c ion with the question under 'consideration; and it has visited the Passaic mine at Irankhn New Jersey, and the Lehigh mine, near Bethlehem sylvjima , where machines, claimed to be constructed after the employed in Germany and England, are used iu the concentration

is applicable to

Nevada it ,8 not far from 35 per cent, in milling^ with a savin'- « per haps 10 per cent, more in the subsequent workings of the tailings and dimes, making less than 75 per cent, in all. The actual loss in re SctZ

o per cent, i

It would appear to be very singular that this saving should not be made m the working of the most important mines in our country rf the statements just referred to are reliable, But it is denied by some of the mining authorities upon the Comstock that this statement is coirect and it was asserted that large sums had been offered in vain for producing like results. Indeed it seems quite impossible, from the information we have been able to obtain, to speak positive upon the subject A personal examination of the foreign mines referred to by one or more competent individuals is the only sure mode of ascertaining the actual facts, as applicable to the treatment of the ores of the Comstock Yet some better mode of reduction than is now practiced in Nevada may undoubtedly be devised, which shall secure a part at least rf the iS amount now lost in the separation of the precious ores from the refuse matter.

Still another consideration appeals strongly for this economy in the working of the ores—in the saving of a large percentage of metal now lost in reduction. Of the bodies of ore, other than those of low grade now known to exist in the Comstock, the greater part will be worked out before the tunnel will be completed. Whether other bodies will be discovered is a matter of conjecture. That the lode is a true fissure vein is, in the opinion of the commission, beyond question. But whether the vein will continue to be metal-bearing to indefinite depths cannot be stated with any degree of certainty, though, in the opinion of the commission, the weight of reasoning and the experience in mining in other parts of the world largely favor such continuance. But, supposin «• hat no further deposits of the precious metals should be discovered the tunnel if constructed, would have to depend upon the workin-of the large bodies of low-grade ores, which have thus far been passed oyer as unprofitable under the present expensive system of mining and reduction. That such ores exist in large quantities in the mines? con-taming from eight or ten to twenty-five dollars per ton, is generally admitted, and seems to be undeniable, Only one of the mining superintendent with whom we conferred doubted this, and his opinion, we are satisfied from other testimony, is erroneous. Ores milling less

Sutro Tunnel. 13

than about $20 per tori, or assaying less than about $30, cannot be mined with profit under the present imperfect process of reduction and the high price of labor which prevails in the mining districts of Nevada. Economy must, therefore, be sought for before the immense amount of low-grade ores can be profitably worked ; and this economy is to be found in improved modes of reducing the ores, including concentration 5 in the general application of water-power, and in the more general substitution of machinery for manual labor, rather than in a reduction of the present rates of wages. A savin g^ of 95 per cent, of the gold and silver contained in the ore, as is asserted to be the case in the German mines of similar character to the Comstock, would go far toward giving value to the millions contained in the low-grade ores which have been thrown aside or passed over as worthless. While it is not assumed that mining can be carried on as cheaply here as in Europe, owing to the higher value of labor in our country, it is not seen why, in other respects, the cost to us should be greater, provided we adopt the same or improved means in the reduction of the ores. If, therefore, ores assaying but $5 per ton can be there mined and reduced at a profit, we do not see why ores of the same character assaying $10 may not be profitably worked with us, with our higher rates of labor. This would render valuable the vast amount of now worthless low-grade ores in the Coin-stock, and add millions to the world's circulation. Hence the importance to the nation of any scheme which promises increased economy in the working of mines.

Whether the Sutro Tunnel project fulfils this condition of economy depends, in the opinion of the commission, upon the practicability of securing a sufficient water-power from the Carson Eiver, at all seasons, for the reduction of the ores, the possibility of which, though not fully proved by accurate surveys, no doubt is entertained, and upon the efficacy of the methods employed in Germany and other countries of Europe for the concentration of ores, of which we are unable to vouch.

Assuming the correctness of these two points, of abundant water and of concentration of ores, we would express an opinion favorable to the tunnel and its accessories as an economical mode of working the mines of the Comstock; otherwise, we should advise that the mines continue to be operated as at present practiced.

Feasibility Of The Tunnel.

Of the practicability of the project there is no doubt. It is a question of cost alone. So many tunnels have been run in this, as well as in other countries, through material much more difficult, that no reasonable grounds exist for questioning the feasibility of the one we are considering. So far as surface indications are to be relied upon, the rocks to be penetrated do not differ materially from those which are met with in the operations on the Comstock, in the shafts, drills, and winzes which have been opened in those mines in the search for the precious metals. While it is quite impossible to predict with any degree of certainty exactly what kinds of rock will be met with in the^ progress of the tunnel, or in what proportions, it is safe to assume that nothing will be encountered which will offer any serious obstacle to the miner. We, therefore, dismiss this portion of the investigation with the expression of the opinion of the commission in favor of the entire feasibility of the tunnel project, so far as its construction is concerned.

Cost Of The Tunnel.

In making the estimate of cost, the commission has been governed mainly by costs of shafts and drifts in the mines on the Comstock, and by the actual expenditures as reported by the tunnel company in running its preliminary tunnel or drift, which, as has been stated, has already penetrated over 2,500 feet under the mountains lying between its mouth and the lode. Taking all these elements of information into consideration, an average of cost per foot of length has been deduced, which, in the judgment of the commission, is as reliable as any that can be arrived at for an estimate for a tunnel which is to run for so great a length through rocks, the character of which can only be judged of, and then only imperfectly, by surface indications. This cost, which is given for the main tunnel and its shafts separately from that of the cross or branch tunnel, is :

For the main tunnel and four shafts . — $2, 707, 595 15

For the branch tunnel and two shafts ...^ 1,710,734 35

Total in gold .- 4,418,329 50

This estimate, the details of which are given in the appendix, embraces all the expenditures supposed to be necessary for the completion of the work, including machinery, fuel, shelter, superintendence, &c. It is but proper to remark, however, that its correctness will depend in a large degree upon the character of rock met with, and may be either too large or too small as the difficulties shall be found to exceed or fall short of the supposition upon which the estimate is based. The prices stated are in gold, which is the only basis of value recognized in Nevada.

Time Required For The Construction Of The Tunnel.

Our estimates are based upon the progress made in the shafts and drifts in the mines of the Comstock lode, and also upon the actual progress in the construction of the preliminary tunnel so far as it has been prosecuted, all of which have been executed by manual labor. Under this supposition of progress it will require 1,186 days, or about three and one-fourth years, for the completion of the main tunnel after the work shall have been fairly commenced at all the shafts ; and if the cross or branch tunnel be commenced at the same time, as it may be, and pushed forward correspondingly, the whole may be completed in nearly the same time ; that is, in about three and four-tenths years after vigorous operations shall have been undertaken upon all parts. But if machinery be judiciously employed, there seems to be no doubt that the tunnel may be completed in two and three-tenths years. Considerable attention has been given to the subject of the application of machinery to this object, resulting in the conviction that the time needed for the completion of the tunnel, beyond what would be required if manual labor alone were employed, may, by its use, be shortened at least one-third.

The Value Of The Bullion Extracted From The Mines On The

Comstock Lode.

To ascertain with perfect accuracy the total value of the bullion extracted from the mines of this lode is quite impossible, owing to the almost total absence of records during the early days of mining. The

Sutro Tunnel. 15

commission Las, however, obtained a statement of the bullion sent by express, by which it has been mainly transported, amounting' for the ten years from 1861 to 1870. both inclusive, to $123,607,278; and it is the opinion, of those well informed upon the subject, that the product of the mines previously to 1861, including bullion taken away by private parties, will swell the total production, irom 1859 to 1871, to $125,000,000.

Present And Probable Future Production.

The mines which are now productive are given below, with the amount of bullion for the last year so far as ascertained; all the other mines on the ledge being engaged in prospecting only:

2. Hale& Norcross 1,632,500 03

3. Chollar Potosi 3,455,423 08

4. Yellow Jacket 2,000,000 00

The present annual production may, it is believed, be taken with sufficcnt accuracy at $15,000,000.

As regards the probable future yield, no claim can be made to anything like accuracy, except in the few. instances in which ore-bodies are now developed. The commission has already stated its belief in the lode being what is known as a true fissure vein, or as continuing downward indefinitely in the crust of the earth ; but whether the vein will continue to be ore-bearing cannot be predicted with any degree of certainty. It is a matter of opinion, to be based, however, upon probabilities and the actual results experienced in deep mining in other parts of the world. These, in the judgment of the commission, favor the finding of ore down to the lowest depths that can be reached; and that this opinion is shared by most of the mining authorities seems to be shown by their continued downward search.

Some few of the mines, as the Crown Point, Belcher, Hale & Norcross, and Yellow Jacket, have ore enough in sight to occupy them for three or four years to come; others, like the Savage, will exhaust all known, bodies in a shorter time, while others still will have to depend for their future upon the success of the prospecting in which they are engaged, or upon the low-grade ores which have been passed over or thrown aside as not paying for the cost of working ; this last involving the necessity for a large economy beyond what is now practical in the working of the mines and in the transportation and reduction of the ores.

ON THE "GEOLOGICAL AND PRACTICAL VALUE" OF THE SUTRO TUN- NEL "AS AN EXPLORING WORK."

- In view of the limitations contained in the law, the commissioners confined their geological investigations to the line of the tunnel and its immediate vicinity.

To the works of Baron Eichthofen, who devoted many months to a careful examination of the rock formations of the Washoe district; to Professor Whitney, who determined by barometrical measurements the elevation of the mountains and valleys, and determined the geologic age ot the deposits near Dayton ; and, finally, to the able report of Mr. Clarence King, recently issued from the Government press, we ackuowledge

our obligations. With the extended labor of these gentlemen onthe general geology of the country, it is not a subject of regret that economic geology, with its special application, forms the limit of our investigation.

The entire region in the vicinity of Virginia City gives the evidence of an extensive dynamical disturbance, continued through a long period of time with more or less activity. Volcanic action to an extent and of an intensity not met with in modern times, has played an important part in the formation of numerous mountain peaks, and in giving to the scenery a broken and rugged aspect, which is heightened by the sterility of the soil. Without a tree or shrub to relieve the eye, excepting the sickly-looking artemesia or sage-brush, struggling for existence, the broken and jagged trachytic rocks impart a character of wilderness to the country, and the name of "Devil's Gate," given to one of the passes, indicates the feeling which prompted the first rude settlers to bestow such a name to the rugged scenery. Passing from Virginia City eastward for a distance of four miles in a right line, we reach the comparatively fertile valley of the Carson, while within the range of vision to the northward the sand clouds may be seen sweeping over the desert region known as the Sink of the Humboldt. We do not design giving a full topographical description of this interesting but sterile country, but desire to convey the idea of the worthlessuess of these mountains except for the boundless wealth in minerals which they contain.

The various ages and modes of deposit of the rock formations have an important practical bearing, and require our special attention.

Mount Davidson, from its height and position, as well as from its lithological character, was the first to make its appearance amid the snow mountain peaks of the Washoe district. It is a syenitic rock, compact in structure, difficult to work, and bears important relations to the Com stock lode, forming the west wall for a considerable distance, if not through its entire extent. The elevation of Mount Davidson has been determined at 7,827 feet, its summit rising 1,022 feet above Virginia City, and has a range of outcroppings of quartz rock skirting its eastern side some 1,500 feet below its summit.

To the eastward on the line of the proposed tunnel are numerous hills, intersected by valleys or deep ravines, extending to the plains of the Carson Eiver.

Next in order to the syenite is an extensively diffused volcanic rock called propylite, which was spread over the entire portion of the tunnel section. This is the green-stone or " green-stone trap" of the miners, and works with great facility. It is thickly studded with fine granules and occasionally with distinct crystals of sulphuret of iron. It is important as furnishing the eastern or hanging rock of the Comstock lode.

Through the propylite, at a later period, volcanic craters have been opened, and formed by their ejections hills or mountains of considerable elevation, varying much in their color, compactness, and the circumstances attending their formation. The most common variety of this trachytic rock is a simple greyish, pasty mixture, with its particles loosely cemented together, easily worked with the pick, except at considerable depths, when it becomes compact and is useful as a building-stone. The structure of the rock indicates that the volcanic ashes of which it is composed were ejected in connection with water or steam and cooled rapidly after its deposit. The mud volcanoes of Western Mexico furnish a type of this form of deposit. Another variety of the same color, with numerous crystals of glassy feldspar diffused through its mass, from which it has received the name of sauadin trachyte, was deposited

Sutro Tunnel. 17

ill a similar manner, but cooling-slowly gave an opportunity for the play 'of chemical affinities, by which the crystals were formed, and a more compact structure of the rock resulted.

A third variety, with a color ashy grey, or of a more or less deep red color, is found one and a half miles from the mouth of the tunnel. With the same chemical constituents, except the addition of oxyde of iron, we have in this a firm, hard rock, working with difficulty.

Still another variety of considerable practical importance is met with, which has been passed through for a distance of 750 feet at the commencement of the tunnel, which may be distinguished under the name of trachytic conglomerate. It is characterized by numerous angular masses, sometimes of great size, cemented together by the ash-colored trachytic matter, and offering to the drill and giant powder serious obstacles to rapid progress in the work of constructing the tunnel. This formation is due to the breaking down of the walls of the crater and the projection of their broken up, angular masses into the ashy deposits from the volcano. These walls were, at this place, composed of metamorphic porphyry, the fragments of which are now held together firmly by the cementing material.

Numerous recent instances might be cited for illustrating the action of ancient volcanoes, the same laws which governed in former times being operative at the present, but with far less intensity.

In 1813 a volcanic eruption of ashes occurred on the Island of St. Vincent, which fertilized the Island of Barbadoes, the ashes falling in Bridgetown to a depth of several inches. The amount of material thrown out must have been immense, as the transfer was made in opposition to the trade-winds.

The once beautiful and symmetrical volcano of Consaguina, in Central America, some forty years ago exploded with a report heard at Santa Fe de Bogota, a distance in a right line of one thousand eight hundred miles, and emitted ashes in such quantities that, for hundreds of square miles, the sun was obscured, and for ten days made a midnight darkness over most of Honduras and San Salvador. -The ruins of Pompeii and Herculaneum furnish us with well-known examples of similar volcanic eruptions.

The other formations on the line of the tunnel are of much less consequence in this connection. At the St. John's mine, on the Monte Christo lode, is a deposit of granular limestone, which disappears at some 200 feet in depth where the propylite is in place.

Andesite, a hard hornbleudic rock, caps one of the hills near the route of the tunnel. This is of volcanic origin, and is only less hard than obsidian, of which a few scattered specimens were met with.

To recapitulate, we have for a basis the syenite of Mount Davidson,, then propylite, (with porphyry,) sauidin trachyte, loosely aggregated, and compact trachyte, trachyte conglomerate, andesite, and carbonate of lime on or near the line of the tunnel.

It becomes a matter of much importance to determine the character of the rock excavation in estimating the cost of construction and the time required to complete the tunnel. The quartzite met with in the Hoosac tunnel has greatly impeded the progress of tbat great work, causing a weary delay, and leading to great expense in construction.. With this example before us for not relying upon surface indications alone for the character of the rock excavation, your commissioners sought every indication possible for obtaining a correct idea of the formations through which the Sutro Tunnel will be required to penetrate. We-were still more strongly impressed with the necessity for using great S. Ex. 15 2

Erecaution in our determinations, as unexpected results had already een obtained in the portion of the tunnel or heading which had been driven some 2,300 feet. The surface indicated that, for this and a much greater distance, the tunnel would pass through trachytic rock only. On the contrary the following results were obtained, viz:

Feet.

1. Trachytic conglomerate 750

The firmness of the conglomerate will be sufficient to support itself without timbering. All the others will require this support, and the blue clay continually acts upon and crushes the frame-work, requiring constant care and frequent excavations behind the timbers to prevent the complete closure of the adit. This difficulty is encountered in many of the mines, until , the clay becomes sufficiently dry to resist the great pressure of the vast body of the same material behind it. No part of the tunnel will cost as much per hundred feet as that passing through this clay.

In an economic view, the porphyry and propylite may be considered the same, having about equal density, and working equally well under the drill. In the former, a greater liability exists of encountering clay seams, as a result of the disintegration of the feldspar, which enters largely into its composition.

With but comparatively slight exceptions, these two formations will be the only ones encountered in the construction of the tunnel, for they underlie the trachytic and other volcanic rocks, and, except in chimneys, these later formations will not be encountered.

The propylite by exposure to moist air too readily disintegrates in consequence of the changes effected in the sulphuret of iron, with which it is filled, and will require to be timbered in consequence. All the circumstances named have been taken into consideration in forming an estimate of cost, and as an element in determining the uiine required in construction.

By the cooling of the vast field of propylite which had been poured out, we may assume that the contraction was sufficient to cause a vast fissure near or at its junction with the sienite.

The period of active volcanic movement again occurring, there was injected from below a body of quartz in quantity sufficient to fill this fissure. Practically, it does not matter whether this was accomplished by solfataric action or by direct volcanic forces, or whether we consider the metallic wealth deposited in the lode by super-heated steam and the action of acids, or consider that with the silex the gold and silver were thrown up by the same force.

We know that for a distance of five miles, with a varying width of from 50 to 500 feet, and to an unexplored depth, the Comstock lode is found one of the richest, most productive and extensive in the records ef mining.

It is, however, of very great importance to determine whether the Comstock be a true fissure-vein, as declared by most intelligent geologists, or be but a gash-vein, with its material filled in from adjacent rocks. The permanency of the mining interests of Nevada depends 'upon which of these views prove correct. In the first contingency we may claim that no true fissure vein has ever been worked out, and from

Sutro Tunxel. 19

analogy we may draw the conclusion, with a good degree of certainty, that the Corastock cannot be exhausted by the labor of man. If but a gash-vein, the conditions are so changed that exhaustion must at no distant day be the result. In a careful examination of the rocks near the lode, we do not find a loss of any proportion of the quartz which belongs to them. From whence, then, could this mineral have been derived ? Again, the only source of supply by washing in must have been obtained from a higher level, or the syenite of Mount Davidson. This would imply a decomposition of that rock ; and the hornblende, one of its constituents, would as readily be carried into the opening as the quartz. The hornblende is not found mingling with the silicious deposit, therefore the latter could not have been received from the syenite.

We are left to the only possible explanation of the occurrence of this wonderful deposit, i. e., that it is a true fissure-vein filled from below, and, like other fissure-veins, extends to a depth beyond the power of man to reach. The explanation of the clay selvages bounding the veinniatter, the formation of "horses'7 by the falling of portions of the hanging rock, the exhaustion of rich bonanzas or bodies of paying ore, the barren condition of much of the quartz, are none of them peculiar to the Comstock lode, but are met with in other mines of a similar character, and have been fully described elsewhere. The crushed and crumbly condition of much of the vein-matter has been ascribed to dynamical action, supplemented, doubtless, by chemical changes in the sulphurets met with in considerable quantities in. the lode. With reference to the future productiveness of the mines, until carefully explored at deep levels, much must be left to conjecture. The mere fact that the Comstock is a true fissure-vein establishes that the vein-matter or quartz extends downward indefinitely, but does not prove that this material is charged with the precious metals. Reasoning from the past history of fissure-veins in other countries, we have just grounds for believing that the metallic wealth, thousands of feet below the surface, will fully equal or be even greater than that from higher levels. The Sampson mine in Germany has reached a depth of 3,000 feet without any diminution of its yield of silver. This, compared with the Comstock, is a small vein, but for that very reason is far more likely to be lost by a fault than one of the magnitude of the lode under consideration.

It is quite probable that at great depths the metals are more equally distributed through the vein matter, in which case the very rich ores will not be met with, but the whole mass will yield an equally favorable result, without the large expenditures required in drifting for bonanzas. The recent discoveries in the Crown Point and Belcher mines of immense bodies of " rich rock " at nearly 1,700 feet below the initial point is a most encouraging feature for the permanent value of the lode.

We had the privilege of examining such portion of the bonanza of the Crown Point as had been uncovered, estimated to be worth $15,000,000, with a prospect of equal value at a still greater depth. Judging from the present quotations of the Belcher stock, this latter mine should give even greater results than the Crown Point.

One other feature of the recent discovery becomes important to the mine owners and to the country. Upon the upper levels of this and some other mines, if not in all, the yield of gold was greater in value than of 'silver. As the mining progressed in depth, the silver yield to

the ton of ore became the greater, but in the new discoveries the more precious metal is restored to its previous relative proportion.

An examination of the reports of superintendents give us a much higher per cent, of the gold contained in the ore secured than of silver. In the report of the Savage mine, of this year, we find that the loss in working from the assay value of the ores is, of gold, 25^ per cent., fo silver, 34T2^ per cent. The larger the proportion of gold in the ore, the less absolute loss is made in the working.

The above statement is the result of the workings in the Occidental mill, under the direct control of the Savage Company, and includes all savings from slime and tailings secured to the company.

In the Custom's mills, the report shows a less favorable result on the silver product, as follows : Gold loss, 23^ per cent. ; silver loss, 44 per cent.

It may not be1 out of place to remark that the loss on the gold product is ascribed to " float gold," which might possibly be secured by running the surface-water or " float w through sponges/ The loss of silver is due to a failure in the works to secure the sulphuret of silver, and, to a limited extent, to particles of clay, carrying with them minute portions of silver, as suggested in the report of Mr. Clarence King.

It is well understood by all who have given their attention to the subject, that the inetalic deposits are not equally diffused through the vein-matter, but are found in detached bodies called " bonanzas." This rule holds good in the Comstock lode as well as in all other silver lodes, having quartz as a gangue. An examination of the mining map, exhibiting the workings of this lode in detail, proves the deposition of the rich ores of the precious metals in bodies, and the comparatively barren quartz in other portions.

There is no law yet evolved from experience or science for determining the position of these rich bodies of ore j explorations alone can discover their position and value. It is, however, sufficient to know that they are confined to the vein-matter, and their discovery may be expected so long as we confine our workings within the boundaries of the " country rocks."

By the present system of working the ores from these mines, rock that yields by assay less than $30 to the ton, cannot be reduced at a profit.

The amount of low-grade ores, ranging from $10 to $35 in the Comstock lode, amounts, by the testimony of some witnesses, to millions of tons. The following forms a small portion of the evidence obtained upon this subject : Colonel Eequa, superintendent of the Chollar Potosi mine, in his various reports, mentions the large amount of ores that at some future time may be made available to the owners, that with present prices for labor and by the present processes of reduction cannot be utilized. He stated, personally, that very large bodies of sixteen-dollar ore exist in the mine.

A former superintendent of the Empire and Imperial mine stated that while in charge he struck a body of ore that yielded $19 per ton, which, at the then cost of mining, transport, and reduction, did not pay. This body was prospected in the middle of the lode, more than 100 feet wide, to a depth of 6 feet only. How large this body of ore may be he was unable to state.

Mr. George Atwood, at present superintendent of the Eberhart mine, has worked as foreman, &c., for eight years on various mines of the Comstock lode, states that in the south mine of the Ophir a body of ore exists that has been mined and used for filling in stopes for a distance

Sutro Tunnel. 21

of 300 by 300 by 100 feet, which will average, by assay, $20 per ton. A large body in the north mine, yielding but little less, is found in place. Ife further states that in the Crown Point, on the 200-feet level, an estimated amount of 100,000 tons of ore, that will assay $20 per ton, may be found. Was for three years connected with that mine, and is thoroughly acquainted with the upper levels.

From our own observation, and the evidence of others, we do not hesitate in stating that vast amounts of what are designated as low-grade ores abound in these mines, that may yet be made available in increasing the national wealth.

At each extremity north and south from the principal mines the workings are carried on exclusively for gold. The Sierra Nevada Company, the most northerly of the group now in operation, is understood to be profitably engaged in working the loose surface rock and soil. At the other extreme the Succor mine and mill, situated on Gold Cation, are in operation ; the vein of precious metal having been followed into the mountain 1,300 feet, and the ore is taken to the mill direct through a tunnel. The facilities for working and the ecconomy exhibited has saved the stockholders from the usual heavy assessments.

A careful survey of the adit of this mine developed an unexpected fact. Following the windings of the tunnel, which kept pace with the sinuosities of the vein of ore, we reached the same character of quartz rock that had become familiar to us in the mines of the Comstock. This was an accidental discovery of the miners during a search for the gold vein, which had been lost from a fault. This "white lode" assayed 822 CO per ton. By taking the bearings by compass in this and in the Crown Point mine, they indicated a connection with each other. The theory has been that near the Overman mine the vein or lode bent around to American Flat, where it ceased. Further research may be necessary to establish with certainty the view, that a branch at least of the Comstock lode passes down Gold Canon and shows itself in the Succor mine, one and a half miles below the Crown Point.

The appearances indicate that the "white lode" and the gold vein will at no great distance unite to form a rich lead, and when thus joined the value of the gold and silver lead will be condensed into the gaugue of one with the relative proportions of gold to silver now met with in the Crown Point.

The value of the proposed Sutro Tunnel simply as an exploring work is so evident as to be scarcely called in question. Cutting, as it does, at right angles two or more lodes before reaching the Comstock, that, in Europe, would be deemed valuable; the determination of their wealth or poverty would prevent further ruinous outlays in prospecting. There is no certainty that rich bonanzas will be met with in the progress of the work, but that an abundance of moderately rich ores will be found is quite probable. We found at the Occidental mine, on the Monte Christo lode, two adits or tunnels had been run, one to the distance of 1,850 feet for a considerable distance through crystalline limestone, after which porphyry and then propylite made their appearance as we penetrated the tunnel.

The quartz vein is often broken down and crumbly and colored by oxide of iron. In the limestone excavated we noticed arborescent crystals of manganese. Extensive galleries and wide chambers were met with, from which rock working from $10 to $33 had been taken. The upper tunnel had been run for 1,500 feet and connected by a shaft to the lower one. We noticed that the current of air passed down the shaft and out at the lower tunnel. Much of the quartz rock is nearly

or quite barren, but we were informed that millions of tons assaying from $8 to $10 to the ton existed in the mine. We believe this to be a fair index of the character of the Monte Christo lode which we visited in other localities. What developments will be made at the great depth at which the tunnel will cross its track is, of course, uncertain. The heading which has been run will, if continued a few hundred feet farther, cut the " Great Flowery lode," with what result we are not prepared to predict.

We made an examination of the Lady Bryan mine, said to be located on this lode. The croppings of quartz rock is enormous in quantity, forming a hill about 100 feet high, and would yield for the whole mass, as we were informed by the superintendent, an average of $8 per ton of silver.

An open cut has been made through the hill or body of quartz rock into a large basin formed by the excavation of material, some of it valuable, but a large quantity too poor for working.

Short drifts have been run into the hill-sides in various directions, which at the time of our visit were not worked. The richer ores were being assorted for milling, the mine furnishing but eight or ten tons per day of valuable material. Only ten men were employed on the works at the time, the mine having recently passed into new hands.

With reference to the tunnel cutting Mind lodes, we are not prepared to express an opinion, the very name implying a complete want of knowledge of the subject. The possibility barely exists, with the past history of mining giving strong practical evidence against the probability of a favorable result.

As an exploring work, we think the Sutro Tunnel may claim to determine with sufficient certainty the ore-bearing character of the Great Flowery and Monte Christo lodes, and settle definitely the question whether the Comstock lode at great depths continues in richness ; or, as is believed by some, becomes worthless as the deep levels are opened. It is somewhat remarkable, as bearing on this subject, that the Crown Point, once justly esteemed valuable, and ranking high in the stock board, became almost worthless under the supposition that the mine was worked out. By the energy and perseverance of the superintendent, the owners were rewarded by the discovery, at deep levels, of one of the richest bonanzas yet found on the Comstock lode, which sent the stock up from $2 50 per share to over $300. It must be borne in mind that at two or three points shafts reaching as low as the tunnel will be sunk by the time of its possible completion. This will not be so complete an exposure of the value of the lode as drifts from the lateral tunnel, made at comparatively small expense, at numerous points along its course.

We cannot but think, therefore, that, as an exploring work for deep mining, the Sutro Tunnel may justly claim favorable consideration.

Eespectfullv submitted.

H. G. WEIGHT, Lieutenant Colonel of Engineers, Brevet Major General.

J. G. FOSTER, Lieutenant Colonel Engineers, and Brevet Major General,

United States Army. WESLEY 3STEWCOMB, Civil and Mining Engineer.

Brigadier General A. A. HUMPHREYS,

Chief of Engineers, United States Army, Washington, D. C.

Sutro Tunnel. 23

Office Sutro Tunnel Commission,

New York, December 2, 1871.

GENERAL : 1 have the honor to transmit herewith a letter from Mr. Adolph Sutro,* iu which he states that he has not been able as yet to prepare the paper which he desired to furnish, relative to the advantages of the tunnel as compared with the present method of working the mines 5 but he incloses a printed copy of a speech delivered by him at Virginia City, in support of his project, and desires that it may be added to the appendix of the commissioners7 report.

This printed speech is also inclosed, and 1 would ask that it be attached to the appendix of the report, as desired by Mr. Sutro. I would further suggest that his letter be also appended. Very" respectfully, your obedient servant,

H. G. WEIGHT, Lieutenant Colonel of Engineers, Brevet Major General,

Senior Officer of Commission.

Brigadier General A. A. HUMPHREYS,

Chief of Engineers, United States Army, Washington, D. C.

Appendixes.

Appendix A.

Estimates of cost of the Sutro Tunnel.

Cost of sinking shaft No. 1, 109 square feet area and depth of 530 feet, including tools, labor, aud materials of all kinds, at $40 24 per foot of depth, (being the average cost iu the seven principal mines of the .

Same, shaft No. 2, 109 square feet, 1,025 feet deep, at $40 24 41, 246 00

Same, shaft No. 3, 109 square feet, 1,319 feet deep, at $40 24 53, 076 56

Same, shaft No. 4, 109 square feet, 1,499 feet deep, at $40 24 60, 319 76

Same, shaft No. 5, 109 square feet, 1,465 feet deep, at $40 24 58, 951 60

Same, shaft No. 6, 109 square feet, 1,465 feet deep, at $40 24 58, 951 60

Preliminary tunnels or drifts.

Cost of labor, tools, and materials of all kinds, for drift of

main tunnel, 6 feet wide, 7 feet high, and 19,790 feet long,

at $16 90 per running' foot, (being the average cost of 2,185'

Deduct value of one-half of timber of drift, which may be

used again as the enlargement progresses 14, 644 60

Cost of labor, tools, and materials of all kinds, used in drifts

of branch tunnel, 6 feet by 7 feet, by 12,000 feet long, at

$10 90 per running foot 238,800 00

Deduct value of one^-half timber of drifts used a second time 8, 880 00

Cost of enlargement of drift to full size of tunnel, 13£ feet by 12 feet, by

19,720 feet long, 2,366,400 cubic feet, at 25 cents 591, 600 00

Same, of branch tunnel, 12,000 feet long, 1,440,000 cubic feet, at 25 cents. 360, 000 00 Cost of timbering main tunnel full size, 19,720 feet in length, at $17 34

per running foot 341, 944 80

Same, of the branch tunnel, 12,000 feet, at §17 34 208, 080 00

* See Appendix M.

Cost of general material and sundries, including surveying instruments, large transit building for the same, boarding and lodging houses, barns, horses, carts, magazines, blowers, air-pipes, &c., for four shafts of main

tunnel $66,439 00

Same, for branch tunnel, two shafts 20,000 00

Cost of hoisting and pumping engines and machinery for four shafts of

main tunnel 121, 679 00

Same, for branch tunnel, two shafts 108, 930 00

Cost of boilers and parts, four shafts, main tunnel 33, 736 40

Cost of boilers and parts, two shafts, branch tunnel 25, 256 00

Cost of labor and materials for the erection of machinery, and temporary

buildings to cover the same, for the four shafts of main tunnel 32, 265 00

Same, for the two shafts of branch tunnel 21, 510 00

Cost of material and time employed in attending machinery during the

sinking of four shafts, main tunnel 138, 734 27

Same, for the two shafts of branch tunnel 82, 489 50

Same, during the running of the preliminary tunnel of the main tunnel. . 324, 784 90

Same, of branch tunnel 216,523 26

Cost of appliances for hauling rock and ore out of main tunnel 50, 000 00

Cost of appliances for hauling rock and ore out of branch tunnel 35, 000 00

Add for office expenses, sunerintendence, engineering, and contingencies,

Total cost in gold 4, 418, 329 50

Recapitulation.

Main tunnel. Branch tunnel.

Sinking shafts $175,969 52 $117,903 20

Eunning preliminary tunnels 379, 176 40 229, 920 00

Enlargement of drifts to size of tunnel 591, 600 00 360, 000 00

Timbering full-size tunnel 341 , 944 80 208, 080 00

General materials and sundries 66, 439 00 20, 000 00

Engines and machinery 121,67900 108,93000

Boilers and attachments 33, 736 40 25, 256 00

Erection of machinery and temporary buildings for same. 32, 265 00 21, 510 00

Attending machinery in sinking shafts 138, 734 27 82, 489 50

Ditto in running preliminary tunnels 324, 784 90 216, 523 26

Endless wire-rope, &c : 50,000 00 35rOOO 00

Office expenses, superintendence, engineering, contingencies, 20 per cent .... 451,265 86 285,122 39

Time required to complete tunnel.

Average daily progress in the shafts of the Comstock 3 feet.

Number of days required to sink shaft No. 4 \ ,499 feet 500 days.

Whole length of main tunnel 19, 790 feet.

Distance penetrated by preliminary tunnel, July 1, 1871 2, 185 feet.

Average daily progress in preliminary tunnel 4 nfo feet.

Distance penetrated when shaft No. 4 reaches tunnel level : 4, 260 feet.

Distance remaining to be penetrated at that time 15, 530 feet.

Number of available working headings ' 9

Greatest distance to be penetrated by any drift to meet the drift from the

adjacent shaft 2, 432 feet.

Time required to run above distance at 4.15 per day 586 days.

Total time required to sink shafts and run drifts 1, 086 days.

Additional time required to enlarge tunnel to full size 100 days.

Total time required to complete main tunnel 1, 186 days.

Number of years required to complete main tunnel 3£ years.

Number of feet of branch tunnel run from four headings at bottom of

shafts Nos. 5 and 6, 1,465 feet deep, when main tunnel is completed . . . 414 feet. Additional time required to extend branch tunnel to 12,000 feet working

two headings 50 days.

Total time to complete main and branch tunnels, (manual labor) 3^- years.

Total time to complete main and branch tunnels, (by machinery) 2y0-years.

Sutro Tunnel. 25

Appendix B.

Circular to superintendent of mines.

Office Sutro Tunnel Commission,

Virginia City, Nevada, July — , 1871.

SIR : By the act of Congress approved April 4, 1871, this commission is required to report, among others, upon the following points, viz :

1. The value of the bullion extracted from the mines on the Comstock lode.

2. Their present and probable future production.

3. The geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work.

Much of the information required by the above can be obtained only from the companies engaged in mining on the Comstock lode ; and as regards the rest, the information which the companies can afford will be of the highest value to the commission in the discharge of its duties. 1 am, therefore, instructed to request of you your views in writing, upon the points above quoted, as well as upon any others which yon may deem to have a bearing upon the question of the construction of the Sutro Tunnel. I also take the liberty, under the instructions of the commission, to append a series of questions having a bearing upon the portions of our duties not enumerated above, your answers to which will be important in making up our estimates of the probable cost of the proposed tunnel, and its value as an aid to deep mining on the Comstock lode.

Should your reply to the foregoing not he ready before the commission leave Virginia City, please forward it addressed to me at the Army Building, New York City. The earliest practicable answer will, however, oblige. Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

H. G. WRIGHT, Brevet Major General, Senior Officei* of Commission.

To ,

Superintendent of Mine.

The following are the questions to which answers are asked :

1. Cost at various depths of sinking shafts, estimated by cubic foot removed, or by the running foot for a shaft of given dimensions.

2. The present cost of timbering the same, with increase, if any, with the depth.

3. The cost of drifting in the various rocks met with in your operations ; estimated either by the cubic foot or by the running foot, specifying the dimensions of the cross-section.

4. The cost of timbering the same.

5. The daily progress made in the shafts and drifts through the various rocks, the largest force that can bo worked to advantage being employed.

6. The cost of ore, water, &c., from various depths.

7. The cost of pumping at your mine for twelve months; preferably for the year ending June 30, 1871.

8. Has the water in your mine increased or diminished with the depth, and in what proportion "?

9. The cost per ton of ore for milling ; and where the cost of transportation to the mill is included, the cost of the latter.

10. What is the present cost of the artificial ventilation of your mine, and how does it increase with the depth ?

11. How long a time at the present progress of working will it require to exhaust all the profitable ore in the mine, above the 600-foot level ?

12. How long between the 600 and 1,000-foot levels ?

13. At what depth will the present machinery be available for hoisting the ore or clearing the mine from water?

14. What additional expense will be incurred, if any, per 1,000 feet of additional depth for the purposes above named, calculating from the 1,000-foot level?

15. What is the width of the lode and also of productive vein-matter at the various levels of your mine ?

16. What has been the expense of prospecting the mine for the year passed ?

17. How does the pay-ore compare at each level, from the surface downward ?

Appendix C.

Ophir.

Office Ophir Silver Mining Company,

Virginia City, Nevada, September "21, 1871.

SIR: In compliance with your communication of July 28, asking niy views upon tho question of the construction of t«he Sutro Tunnel, I heg leave to respectfully submit the following :

Answer to congressional question No. 1, the value of the bullion extracted from the mines on tho Comstock lode. — Bullion extracted from the Ophir mine since the incorporation of the company, in July, 1860, $4,631,539 10.

Nos. 2 and 3. Their present and probable future production, and the geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work.

In answer to congressional question No. 3, I will briefly state, as to its geological value, I am not competent to judge ; but as to the practical value I will offer a few remarks : First, I will consider its value as an avenue through which all the mines on the Comstock may be worked, as it is claimed by Mr. Sutro that all the machinery on the lode may be dispensed with both for hoisting and pumping, and the entire business of or work of all the mines be carried on through his tunnel. You will please consider the tunnel with all its lateral drifts completed, and all the mines on the Comstock being worked through it. No machinery is used on the surface.

•We have, to begin with, (page 19, " Sutro Tunnel/') 3,000 miners to carry to and from their work, an average distance from the mouth of the tunnel of fonr and a half miles. These 3,000 miners divided into three shifts of eight hours each, gives us 1,000 men on each watch. Allowing ten men to a car, it would require one hundred cars to convey the men into the tunnel. The train would occupy 1,200 or 1,500 feet in length of the tunnel, and when the head of this train would reach the place of destination the rear cars would be quite an inconvenient distance back from the place of destination, thereby creating much confusion and more or less delay. It is at this point that the miners' greatest trouble begins, their respective stopes and places of work being far above them. They commence to climb the ladders, and go up various heights, many from 500 to 1,000 feet. They arrive at the place where their day's work is to be done in an exhausted condition, positively unfit and unable to do a day's work.

The timbers used in the various mines are to be conveyed to their respective destinations by the same tedious, slow, and expensive routes — expensive, because time in this country is money in fact, the most expensive commodity that is employed in the working of these mines.

'Suppose a cave is threatened in some one of the most distant or inaccessible mines. A car-load or two of timbers immediately and judiciously used, might, and often does, prevent a disastrous cave. By the present mode of working, in such a contingency as the above, the miner would send his order up, and in a very few minutes the return cage would bring the desired timbers, and in a few minutes more the timbers would be in place, and the threatened disaster averted. How would it be in working through the tunnel ? The miner would first give his order for timbers, the order conveyed down the ladder, probably 1,000 feet to reach the tunnel, then out, of the tunne'l, a distance of four or live miles, to the carpenters' shops at the month of the tunnel; the timbers procured and sent by return cars to the foot of the upraise, then raised, by some as yet unexplained process, to the point of danger or trouble.

In this way, hours might elapse before the much-needed timbers would arrive, and then they would probably arrive too late to prevent great damage.

Another disadvantage in working the mines through the Sutro Tunnel is, the mouth of the tunnel being located several miles farther from the timber and lumber supplies, would necessarily increase the cost of the same two or three dollars per thousand more than when delivered at Virginia or Gold Hill.

The foregoing are some of the practical objections to using said tunnel as an avenue through which to work the mines on the Comstock, and as a practical miner of more than forty years' experience in various kinds of mining, I make this assertion, that should the tunnel, with all its lateral drifts, be offered free of charge, not one mine on the Comstock would be worked through it. And why ? Because the present mode of working is cheaper and more expeditious.

Now I will offer a few remarks regarding the various charges imposed upon the mining companies for the privilege of working through this tunnel. Mr. Sutro (page 166 of his book) estimates the daily yield of all the mines on the Comstock at 1,500 tons. For the right to transport this ore through the tunnel, the mining companies must pay 25 cents per ton per mile, or about on average of $1 12^ per ton, amounting to $1,687 50 per day, or $615,937 50 per annum. There should be added to this a like amount for debris or waste, which, including that from all the shafts, winzes, upraise, and drifts purely of a prospecting character, would be more likely to overrun than fall

Sutro Tunnel. 27

below this amount, which gives us $2 25 per ton, or $3,375 per day, or the large sum per annum of $1,231,875.

In addition to this, we have the transportation of the miners, which, as ho estimates 3,000 men to raise 1,500 tons of ore, gives us two men for each and every ton of ore, equal to $1 per ton, or a total thus far of $3 25 per ton, or $4,875 per clay, or the nice sum per annum of $1,779,375.

As large as this sum is, we must again add to it the cost of conveying the timbers to the respective mines, which is 25 cents per ton per mile, (40 cubic feet or 480 feet board-measure being reckoned as one ton,) and ho estimates the total consumption of timber per annum (page 18) to be 16,000,000 feet, which gives us 33,333& tons ; taken at an average-transportation distance of four and a half miles, amounts to $1 12£ per ton. or a total for this item of $37,500 ; or 6.8 cents per ton of ore, added to the above, amounts to $1,816,875. And yet we are not quite through, for we still have to add the indefinite amount of 50 cents per head for all superintendents, foremen, their assistants, attaches, and visitors that go in and out of this famous tunnel. Taking Mr. Sutro's estimate, we now have taxes in specified items amounting to $3 31.8 per ton, ami for what ? For the privilege of working the mines in a more expensive and less convenient way than the present mode of working them. But thus far there is one redeeming feature in the contract. It is this: it is optional with the different mining companies whether they pay any or all of the before-mentioned tariffs, for if they do not work through the tunnel they need not pay any of them.

We now come to a tax that is more arbitrary in its character. No mine on the Corn-stock lode can escape its provisions. It is what is termed the. two dollars per ton royalty, which is intended to be a compensation for draining the mines, and is claimed to be ii cheaper mode of drainage than that of pumping, the mode now in use. I will now proceed to the consideration of that branch of the Sutro Tunnel question practically considered. These mines have been worked for about twelve years, more or less, extensively.

It is little more than ten years since I first took charge of a mine on the Comstock. For about three-quarters of that time I have been in charge of mines here, having been absent from this locality about two and a half years of the last ten ; hence I speak on this question from experience.

The mine that I am now in charge of, and have been for more than three years past, (the Ophir,) has been, and is still, celebrated as being much the wettest mine on the Comstock, and yet we have no difficulty in overcoming all troubles of an aqueous nature, neither do we anticipate anything in the future of that character that will give us serious trouble.

After these general remarks I will proceed with a few estimates. Mr. Sutro (on page 17) gives us an estimate of what it will cost to pump in all the mines on the Comstock when a depth of 1,550 feet is attained. After very elaborate figuring, he gives us the astonishing sum of $5,911,560 per annum. That depth is very nearly reached at this time in all the prominent mines, aiffl a comparison can now very justly be made between the estimates made by Mr. Sutro and the actual cost, which, taking the Ophir as a, guide, for the year ending May 31, 1871, will not exceed the sum of $150,000 for all the mines, showing the estimate of Mr. Sutro to be very wild, and renders calculations based upon that estimate unreliable in the extreme.

What is the cheapest and most economical mode of freeing the mines on the Comstock from water — the present plan of pumping, or by means of the proposed Sutro Tunnel under the existing franchise? I state that the present cost of pumping will not exceed $150,000 per annum.

Taking the estimate of Mr. Sutro as correct, that the daily yield of the mine is 1,500 tons, or 547,500 tons per annum, the two dollars per ton royalty give a sum per annum of $1,095,000, the cost of drainage through the tunnel.

Comment on these two propositions I hold to be superfluous. There are two principal causes or reasons operating to reduce the cost of pumping on the Comstock in the future as compared with the past ; and these are, first, the great reduction in the cost of fuel, (and that reduction is bound to continue until it reaches a price about half the present cost ;) and, secondly, the positive decrease in the quantity of water as greater depth is attained ; for I hold that there is 110 more certain event of the future than that the water will decrease in the Comstock as the mines grow deeper, the opinions of Mr. Sutro, Professor Richthofen, or any other scientific gentlemen, to the contrary notwithstanding, and the idea of running a tunnel four miles or more in length, at an outlay of millions of dollars, to tap what is almost certain to be very nearly a dry fissure, seems to me to partake of the absurd in the extreme. This is a dry country, and all who have looked upon it know it.

As a ventilator, this tunnel, if finished, would amount to just what a connection between auy two or more mines would— no more and no less. Neither one could possibly be made to ventilate auy exploring or prospecting work for which some mode of artificial ventilation, either by patent blower, air-pumps, or some other more efficient method, is necessary.

But the most important question of all in this connection presents itself, and, as yet, is unanswered — does ore in paying quantities exist in the Comstock at these great depths ? Taking a practical and the most hopeful view of this question that the facts thus far developed will warrant, I am compelled to say there are grave doubts, notwithstanding Professor Richthofen comes to the rescue and assures us that by his scientific and theoretical vision he sees it, and there is no doubt but ore in paying quantities exists in the Comstock fissure from the surface to untold depths. But gentlemen of his class have deceived us so often that, I am sorry to say, we miners have little faith in their scientific prognostications.

I will now proceed to consider the following questions propounded by the commission, i so far as they apply to the workings of the Ophir mine :

1. Cost at various depths of sinking shafts, estimated by the cubic foot removed, or by the running foot for a shaft of given dimensions.

Actual cost of sinking main sliaftfrom 270 feet to 1,002 feet= 282 feet.

Time, 3 months— June, July, and August, 1871. Dimensions of shaft, outside of timbers, 18 feet 8 inches by 7 feet 4 inches.

Total cost.

Cost per foot.

Labor : Miners . ........

Carmen . c

Blacksmiths and helpers

Engineers and firemen .

Wood-hauling <*• .

dfciq 770 nn

<&48 ftz>3-

Fuse and caps

Steel : 757 pounds, at 20 cents

53Aa,

Candles : 1,300 pounds

Wood : 276£ cords, at $10

•

Total amounts .

Cost per cubic foot

2. The present cost of timbering the same, with the increase, if any, with the depth-

Actual cost of timbering main shaft. 47 sets timbers, 6 feet each = 282 feet.

Total cost.

Cost per foot.

Timbers in set : 1,912 feet by 47 sets — 89,864 feet, at $22 per M

Labor : 1 carpenter and 1 timberman, at $5 each per dav

Total amounts

hrp od ertao nrs g.f ceNtaxeeei

Sutro Tunnel.

Total cost of sinking and timbering main shaft 282 feet.

29

Total cost.

Cost per foot.

Cost of sink in <* .

Total amounts

3. The cost of drifting iii tbo various rocks met with in your operations, estimated either by the cubic foot, or by the running foot, specifying the dimensions of the cross-section.

Cost of running drift from 700-foot level, 866 feet.

Blasting ground. No timbers required. Size of drift, 4 feet 6 inches "wide by 6 feet 6 inches high. Time, 8 months; February 15 to October 15, 1869. Six-hour watches— three men on each watch.

Cost.

Per foot.

Labor : Miners $16, 596 00

<ftiQ OAQ oft

Blasting material .

Steel and tools . . . .

15A

Caudles

53A

Total amounts . . .

Cost per cubic foot

86Anr

4. The cost of timbering the same. — No timbers used.

5. The daily progress made in the shafts and drifts through the various rocks, the largest force that can be worked to advantage being employed.

In main shaft, described in answer to question No. 1, six-hour watches are worked, with six men on each watch. Average daily progress, 3.06 feet.

In running drift described in answer to No. 3, six-hour watches, with three men per watch, were employed. Average daily progress, 3.578 feet.

6. The cost of raising ore, water, &c., from various depths.

Estimate of cost of raising ore from a depth of 1,750 feet, (level of the Sutro Tunnel,) with the machinery now iu use. Size of cylinder of hoisting engine, 18 inches by 27 inches.

This estimate is based upon the following proposition : That two reel-shafts be coupled into one, running one cage up and one down at the same time ; machinery being geared so that speed of the cage in the shaft is 800 feet per minute ; double-deck cages being used, hoisting two cars at a time, each car containing 1,500 pounds of ore. Estimated to make six trips per hour, inclusive of all necessary stoppages or delays occasioned by lowering and hoisting men, and lowering timbers into the mine, and all necessary delays for repairs :

Engineers' wages, per day $10 25

Foremen's wages, per day 4 00

Wood-haulers' wages, per day 2 50

Three cords wood per day 30 00

Tar for ropes and oil for' machinery, per day 2 00

Scaling boilers, per day _* 1 00

Wear and tear of machinery, per day 5 00

Interest on cost of machinery, $28,000, at 1 per cent, per mouth 9 20

Total amount 63 95

Total cost per day for hoisting 216 tons of ore 1,750 feet, $63 95, or, 29.6 cents per ton.

30

Sutro Tunnel.

7. The cost of pumping at your mine for twelve months, preferably for the year ceding June 30, 1871.

Actual cost of pumping 700 feet, for tlic year ending May 31, 1871.

Labor :

Pitman's wages $2,007 50

Engineers and firemen 5, 309 50

Wood hauler 703 00

Fuel :

1,387 cords of wood, at $12 16,644 00

27f tons of coal, at $20 ,. 555 00

Oil and tallow :

Lard and other oils 215 67

Interest on cost of pumping-machinery, $31,000, at 1 per cent, per month

Total cost

Value of water raised.

Net cost of raising water

Amount of water raised during the year ending May 31, 1871. Monthly average of daily measurements :

Jtme.

Present flo\v of water September 10, 1871, 5 inches.

July.

August.

September. October.

Decrease in amount of water at 700-foot level, from Jr.ce, , 1870, to date, 72.23 per cent.

November.

December.

January.

9 inches.

February.

9 inches.

March.

9 inches.

April.

8 inches.

May.

7 inches.

The above measurement is what is termed on this coast " Miner's measurement,'' the water running under a six-inch pressure.

13. At what depth will the present machinery be available for hoisting the ore or clearing the mine from water ? — Hoisting machinery, 2,500 feet ; pumping machinery, 1,500 feet.

16. What has been the expense of prospecting the mine for the year passed ? — Total mine expense for the year ending August 31, 1871, $140,571 87. All work being of a prospecting nature.

Should any of the foregoing answers require explanation, I shall be pleased to furnish the same at your request.

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

H. H. Day.

Superintendent Opliir. Silver Mining Company, H. G. WRIGHT,

Brevet Major General and Senior

Officer Sutro Tunnel Commission.

Sutro Tunnel. 31

Appendix D. Gould & Curry.

Superintendent&#x27;S Office, Gould &amp; Curry Silver Mining Company,

Virginia, Nevada, September 2, 1871.

GENERAL : — In accordance •with, your request, I herewith, inclose answer to your interrogatories of 28th of July. Yours, respectfully,

C. C. Batterman,

Superintendent Gould $ Curry Silver Mining Company. H. G. WRIGHT,

Major General, Senior Officer Sutro Commission.

No. 1. The value of the bullion extracted from the Comstock lode?

Answer. The value of the bullion extracted from the Gould & Curry mine up to and including Juno 30, 1871, is $15,555,232 24.

No. 2. The present and probable future production ?

Answer. Present production nothing — the future, dependent upon the success of the explorations now in progress.

No. 3. The geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work ?

Answer. Geologically, it would, no doubt, be of value to the scientist. To the Tunnel Company it would bo of great value as determining the existence or otherwise of ore deposits within the bounds of its land grant, and to the eastward of the explorations made by the mining companies at work upon the Comstock lode. To the Comstock it would be of no practical value. The advantages of ventilation supposed to accrue from the construction of the tunnel are more imaginary than practical. The current of air supposed to be created by the connection of the tunnel with the working drifts of the various mines will, no doubt, be confined to the main drifts and shafts, while the stopes— which are the working points in all mines — will have to be furnished with air then as now, by artificial means, which can be done by air-engines much more cheaply through the present shafts than through the proposed adit.

The economy claimed over the present method in bringing the ore to the surface is entirely imaginary ; that I assert this advisedly, allow me to call your attention to the table in answer to supplemental question No. 6— to the accuracy of which I am willing to certify. The cost of " chuteing" the rock from any point in this mine, say 500 feet above the level of the proposed tunnel, would be greater than to raise the rock to the surface from that depth through the shaft where it would be in dump ready for transportation, while after deli very by "chute" to tunnel level there would still remain four miles of transportation to reach the surface at the mouth of the tunnel, where the ore would be at a greater distance from the reduction works than when in the dump at the top of the shaft.

In this connection, allow me to call your attention to the fact that there is a considerable quantity of low-grade ore remaining in this mine that cannot be worked now with profit, but which, at a lower cost for reduction and material, can be extracted with a moderate profit to the mine ; but if to this is to be attached a royalty, I fear the day is still far distant when it shall be made available.

The average value of the ore extracted from this mine in 1868 — and which was selected from the reserve just mentioned— was $18 14 per ton, at a cost of $16 35 per ton for extraction and reduction ; if to this cost had attached the proposed royalty, the result would have been a loss to the company. Some of the other mines on the Comstock have a greater quantity of this class of ore than the Gould & Curry, and as an illustration of the meager margin of profit 1 beg leave to call your attention to the report of operations in the Savage mine for the year ending June 30, 1871, when the average profit for the year in ore extracted was 42 cents per ton, the gross yield being $21 43 per ton.

The tunnel, if of any value at all to the* Comstock, would be as a drain-tunnel, though even this proposition is a matter of doubt, the explorations on the lode all going to show a decrease of water with increase of depth attained.

From careful estimates, I am satisfied that in this mine 6,500 gallons of water per hour can be raised from a depth of 2,000 feet at a cost of $84 per day ; from this should be deducted the value of the water, which, at present rates, would be about $1,000 per mouth, leaving the cost of pumping $1,GOO per month of thirty days ; this on the amount of ore produced last year, 24,305 tons, would amount to 75 cents per ton ; add to this the cost of raising rock from same depth, 71 cents per ton, and wo have a total cost for rock and water of $1 46 per ton, or 27 per cent, less than the proposed royalty.

If the yield of ore should be equal to the capacity of the machinery at a depth of 2,000 feet, 194 tons per day, the cost of pumping water and raising ore would be 81 02 per ton, or 50 per cent, less than the proposed royalty, and only equaling the proposed toll of 25 cents per ton per mile.

Supplemental questions.

No. 1. Cost, at various depths, of sinking shafts, estimated by the cubic foot removed, or by the running foot, for a shaft of given dimensions. Answer. Size of shaft, 13 feet 2 inches by 8 feet 10 inches.

Cost of labor for running foot $48 86

Cost of keeping tools in repair 1 97

Cost of powder, fuse, &c ., 7 36

Total 58 19

The above is the actual cost of sinking 109 feet in this mine, commencing 1,191 feet from the surface and terminating at 1,300 feet. The rocks passed through were quartz and porphyry, the former predominating unusually hard, consequently the progress was very slow and the work exceptionally costly.

No. 2. The present cost of timbering same, with the increase, if any, with the depth.

Answer. Size of timber used, 12£ by 14 inches ; lagging, 3-iuch plank.

Cost of timber, &c., per foot in depth $8 84

Cost of labor framing 2 00

Total cost per foot in depth $10 84

The cost of labor in placing the timbers in position is included in the cost of labor for sinking. No material increase of cost with increase of depth.

No. 3. The cost of drifting in the various rocks met with in your operations, estimated either by the cubic foot or by the running foot, specifying the dimensions of the cross-section.

Answer. The following is the actual average cost per running foot of two drifts run in this mine during the year 1870. I have selected these two for the reason that they were of the greatest length, and the work was prosecuted uninterruptedly, affording a fair average as to progress and cost.

Eldorado Potosi drift, 101 feet below the surface, 480 feet in length, running obliquely across the stratification, 44 feet hard-blasting porphyry, 30 feet clay, 80 feet of quartz, 326 of porphyry, that was worked with pick. Size of drift outside of timbers, 8 feet high, 5 feet 9 inches wide at top, 6 feet 10 inches at bottom inside of timbers ; 6 feet 3 inches, 3 feet 6 inches, and 4 feet 8 inches. The cost of placing timbers in position included in cost of running drift.

Per foot.

Average cost ot 44 feet $8 00

Average cost of 436 feet 5 00

Seventh-station drift, 1,167 feet.below surface, 600 feet in length, running obliquely through heavy clay and hard porphyry. Size outside of timbers, 8 feet 10 inches in height, 3 feet 9 inches wide at top, 6 feet 9 inches in center, 5 feet 10 inches at bottom. Inside size, 6 feet 4 inches, 2 feet, 3 feet 10, and 3 feet 6 inches. Average cost per running foot, including placing of timbers, $8 10. In this drift the clay, by swelling, was continually displacing the timbers, which had to be eased by cutting away behind them; in many instances we wTere compelled to use jack-screws to force them back to position, which makes the average cost of this drift more than it would otherwise have been.

No. 4. The cost of timbering the same.

Answer. The Potosi drift, timbered in square-tunnel sets, size of timber 8 by 10 inches, and 3 by 6 inch lagging ; sets placed 5 feet apart ; cost per running foot, including framing, $1 89.

Seventh-station drift, size of timber used 14 by 14 inches, framed in arch plank lagging ; sets placed 5 feet apart ; cost per running foot, 'including framing, $4 90. The cosfc per running foot, timbered in square sets, would have been $4 76.

No. 5. The daily progress made in the shafts and drifts through the various rocks, the largest force that can bo worked to advantage being employed.

Answer. In sinking shaft from seventh to eighth station, that is, from 1,167 to 1,300 feet, the excavation has been entirely within quartz and porphyry, the former predominating and exceedingly hard, as is evidenced by the quantity of powder used. The average progress was 18 inches in depth per twenty -four hours. Twenty men employed ; four shifts of live men six hours each. In such rock as was generally found above the 1,167 level the same force would have made about 3 feet each twenty-four hours. In Potosi drift the formation being hard porphyry, soft porphyry, clay, and quartz of average hardness, the drift running obliquely across the formation, the average progress was, through the former, hard porphyry, 4 feet per day, twenty-four hours. Eight men employed ; four shifts of iwo men six hours each. In seventh-station drift, 600

Sutro Tunnel.

33

feet in length, formation heavy clay and hard porphyry drift crossing the strata obliquely ; t he average progress was 3 feet in twenty-four hours. Six men ; three shifts of eight hours.

No. 6. The cost of raising ore, water, &c., from various depths.

Answer :

i

1!

1

I

s .

Ij

&&

Id

Jlf

1

ll|

3"

p .

g-zM

1

|fti8

i

Pcef.

Tons.

Cents.

Cents.

Cents.

The engines work independently, that is, each engine hoists and lowers separately. If the engines were geared together, so that when one cage was being hoisted the other was lowered, the cost per ton would be considerably reduced.

In the above table of cost is included wood, water, $600 per month, oil, engineers, firemen, boiler-cleaner, woodman, and average cost of keeping machinery in repair.

The cost of raising the water in this mine from a depth of 825 feet, also running pump while sinking to 1,300-feet station has been $60 per day, the quantity of water raised about 3,500 gallons per hour.

The capacity of the pumps is 6,500 gallons per hour. I estimate the cost of pumping from a depth of 2,000 feet, working pump to full capacity, at $83 60 per day. This estimate includes wood, engineers, fireman, pitman, &c. From this estimate of cost should be deducted the value of the water.

No. 7. The cost of pumping at your mine for twelve months, preferably for the year ending June 30, 1871.

Answer :

Cost for the year $16,425 00

Deduct water sold 6,000 00

No. 8. Has the water in your mine increased or diminished with the depth, and in what proportion ?

Answer. The greatest quantity of water in this mine was found above the sixth level from the surface to a depth of 825 feet ; from this point downward the quantity of water is very small.

At the eighth station 1,300 feet from the surface the lode is practically dry ; were it not for the seepage from above, which finds its way down the shaft, working at this depth could be prosecuted without the aid of pumps.

I beg to call your attention to the fact that in this mine no considerable bodies of water have been encountered except when the country to the west of the lode has been penetrated.

No. 9. The cost per ton of ore for milling, and when the cost of the transportation to the mill is included the cost of the latter.

Answer. The ore from this mine has been delivered to the mills at the dump. The price paid for milling, which included transportation, was $12 per ton.

No. 10. What is the present cost of the artificial ventilation of your mine, and how does it increase with the depth.

Answer. The cost of ventilation by Root's blower, carrying the air down the shaft through wooden tubing and distributing it through the drifts by galvanized pipe, is $9 35 per day, furnishing air to all the drifts from 625 feet below the surface to 1,300 feet. No increase of cost with increase depth, except the cost of continuing tubing down the shaft.

No. 11. How long a time, at the present progress of working, will it require to exhaust all the profitable ore in the mine above the 600-foot level?

S. Ex. 15 3

Answer. There is no known body of ore existing above the 600-foot level that could be profitably worked at the present cost of reduction, &c.

No. 12. How long between the 600 and 1,000 foot level?

Answer. No paying ore has ever been found in this mine below 600 feet.

No. 13. At what depth \vill the present machinery be available for hoisting the ore, or clearing the mine from water?

Answer. Two thousand feet.

No. 14. See answers to Nos. 6 and 7.

No. 15. What is the width of the lode, and also of productive vein-matter, at the various levels of your mine?

Answer. The width of the lode is undetermined. The productive portion of the lode had an average width, from near the surface to a depth of 525 feet, from four of 40 feet; below this depth ore has not been found in paying quantity.

No. 16. What has been the expense of prospecting the mine for the year past ?

Answer. For the year ending June 30, 1871, $193,670 92.

No. 17. How does the pay-ore compare at each level, from the surface downward?

Answer. That taken from near the surface was the most valuable.

All the measurements of depth given in these answers are from top of shaft, except that to No. 15, which is from station A, King map. To make measurements correspond with those used in the Sutro map, 200 feet should be added, that being the difference in level between shaft and station A ; thus, our eighth station, which I designated as 1,300 feet, would be 1,500 feet on Sutro survey.

C. C. BATTERMAN, Superintendent Gould fy Curry Silver-Mining Company.

VIRGINIA, NEVADA, September 2, 1871.

Appendix E.

SUPERINTENDENT'S OFFICE, SAVAGE MINING COMPANY, Virginia City, Nevada, September 16, 1871.

DEAR SIR : The value of the bullion extracted from the Savage mine during the year ending June 30, 1871, was $818,216 50. From the want of the necessary data I am unable, at the present time, to state the value of all the bullion extracted from the mines on the Comstock lode from the time they were first opened, or during the past year.

Not a small portion of last year's production in bullion came from the tailings which had accumulated at mills in former years, and from the remnants of ore bodies left from the old workings in the upper levels of the mine.

From a general view of the present condition and prospects of the mines on the Comstock lode taken together, I do not anticipate any material change for the next year or two from the last year in the amount of bullion which will be produced. Any increase must depend entirely upon developments which cannot now be foreseen.

The practical value of the Sutro Tunnel as an exploring work can only be a matter of conjecture. In the ground which it traverses it may or may not develop important veins of ore. In this respect it stands on even footing with the numerous similar enterprises on a smaller scale which have been carried on in California and in this State. In a geological point of view the discoveries on the route of the tunnel may give much interesting and valuable information. But I am unable to see what practical good any geological development made outside can be to mining within the limits of the Comstock lode. The attempts made by experts in former years to apply the rules and principles of geology in determining the extent, boundaries, and value of the vein were found entirely futile. With practical miners the pick and shovel have come to be recognized as the only reliable experts within the limits of the Comstock lode. In regard to the value of the Sutro Tunnel as an aid to deep mining on the Comstock lode, my own individual opinion has been formed from a few simple facts, and not from any desire to establish any particular theory which has to be supported by an army of figures and statistics. The chief purposes urged, as I understand, for carrying on this work are drainage, the cheaper extraction, and the cheaper reduction of ore. Until experience proved the contrary, it was a prevalent supposition, even among our leading mining men, that, by tapping the lead at one point, the whole vein would at once be drained down to the level of that point. This idea is exploded. The vein matter of the Comstock is intersected in various directions, longitudinally, crosswise, and diagonally, with clay seams impenetrable to water, and within the sections of a single mine thus bounded by clay seams or walls is confined more or less water, and a mine cannot be said to be drained until every one of these seams has been reached by drift and has been penetrated.

Sutro Tunnel. 35

Suppose this tunnel, as proposed, should be completed up to the east edge of the lode at the Savage mine, connections between this tunnel at that point and the several mines for the purpose of drainage would render necessary the running of tunnels for that specific purpose at an immense cost to the mines. The Crowrn Point and Belcher, two of the most productive mines in Gold Hill, .could only be reached by a tunnel nearly one mile long. In the opposite directions to the north it would require a tunnel about a half mile in length to reach the Ophir mine.

Down to a level with the Sutro Tunnel, I consider that our present mode of extracting ore through shafts directly over the mines, and by machinery, will be the most direct, expeditious, the cheapest, and that by some addition to the present power the machinery will be amply sufficient to drain and to extract ore down to the level of that tunnel, and even beyond that depth, and that all this will be accomplished before the Sutro Tunnel can, in any reasonable probability, be completed up to the Comstock lode.

If it be contemplated by the projectors of this tunnel, as one of the objects of this enterprise, to have the ore taken out through this tunnel and deposited near the river, to be reduced by water-power in mills to be erected, I would reply, in answer to that view of the case, that a large proportion of ore is now being transported to mills already in operation on the river, over a convenient and substantial surface-railway, instead of being drawn four miles under ground by man or horse power. As to the necessity or advantage of such a tunnel to aid in the working of the mines below its (the tunnel's) own level, so little is known of the extent of the lode downward, and there are so many uncertainties connected with it that it seems like making a costly provision for objects which may not eventually require its construction, even if the present means of hoisting and pumping were not sufficient to work below that level. The above views, formed from long and mature consideration, are respectfully submitted by Your obedient servant,

T. B. SHAMP, Superintendent Savage Mining Company.

Major General H. G. WRIGHT,

Senior Officer of Sutro Tunnel Commission.

Office Sutro Tunnel Commission,

Virginia City, Nevada, July 28, 1871.

SIR: By the act of Congress approved April 4, 1871, this commission is required to report, among others, upon the following points, viz :

1. The value of the bullion extracted from the mines on the Comstock lode.

2. Their present and probable future production.

3. The geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work.

Much of the information required by the above can be obtained only from the companies engaged in mining on the Comstock lode, and as regards the rest, the information which the companies can afford will be of the highest value to the commission in the discharge of its duties. I am, therefore, instructed to request of you your views, in writing, upon the points above quoted, as well as upon any others which you may deem to have a bearing upon the question of the construction of the Sutro Tunnel.

I also take the liberty, under the instructions of the commission, to append a series of questions having a bearing upon the portions of our duties not enumerated above, your answers to which will be important in making up our estimates of the probable cost of the proposed tunnel, and its value as an aid to deep mining on the Comstock lode.

Should your reply to the foregoing not be ready before the commission leaves Virginia City, please forward it addressed to me at the Army Building, New York City. The earliest practicable answer will, however, oblige, * Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

H. G. Wright,

Brevet Major General. Senior Officer of Commission. Colonel T. B. SCHAMP,

Superintendent Savage Mine.

The following are the questions to which answers are asked :

1. Cost, at various depths, of sinking shaft, estimated by the cubic foot removed, or by the running foot, for a shaft of given dimensions.

2. The present cost of timbering the same, with the increase, if any, with the depth.

3. The cost of drifting in the various rocks met with in your operations, estimated either by the cubic foot or by the running, foot, specifying the dimensions of the cross section.

4. The cost of timbering the same.

5. The daily progress made in the shafts and drifts through the various rocks, the largest force that can be worked to advantage being employed.

6. The cost of raising ore, water, &c., from various depths.

7. The cost of pumping at your mine for twelve mouths, preferably for the year ending June 30th, 1871.

8. Has the water in vour mine increased or diminished with the depth, and in what proportion ?

9. The cost per ton of ore for milling, arid where the cost of transportation to the mill is included, the cost of the latter.

10. What is the present cost of the artificial ventilation of your mine, and how does it increase with the depth ?

11. How long a time, at the present progress of working, will it require to exhaust all the profitable ore in the mine above the (300-foot level f

12. How long, between the 600 and 1,000 foot levels ?

13. At what depth will the present machinery be available for hoisting the ore or clearing the mine from water?

14. What additional expense will be incurred, if any, per 1,000 feet of additional depth for the purpose above named, calculating from the 1,000 foot level ?

15. What is the width of the lode, and also of productive vein-matter at the various levels of your mine ?

16. What has been the expense of prospecting the mine for the year passed ?

17. How does the pay -ore compare at each level, from the surface downward ? Answer to question 1. Dimensions of shaft are 28 feet by 8 feet; average cost of

sinking, 42 per running foot.

Answer to question 2. Present cost of timbering shaft, at the depth of 1,300 feet, 14 per running foot. No material increase in this cost for the next few hundred feet.

Answer to question 3. Cost of drifting in the various rocks from $6 to $24 per running foot ; average cost on the 1,300-foot level, $10 per running foot. Dimensions of cross-sections of drifts, 7 feet high, 6£ feet wide at the bottom, and 4-£- feet wide at the top.

Answer to question 4. Cost of timbering drifts, $1 58 per running foot.

Answer to question 5. Progress in sinking shaft averages 1 running foot per day ; progress in running drifts, from 1 to 5 feet running per day, according to the character of the rock.

Answer to question 6. Cost of raising ore from the 1,300-foot (or lowest) level, $1 per ton.

Answer to question 7. Cost of pumping of the year ending June 30, 1871, $22,337. The present flow of water is 19,116 gallons in twenty-four hours.

Answer to question 8. The flow of water on the 1,300-foot (or lowest) level is somewhat less than it was on some of the levels above. The proportion in which it has diminished cannot now be accurately ascertained .

Answer to question 9. The average cost of milling ore for the last year has been $9 95 per ton, average. This includes transportation, which costs from 75 cents to $3 per ton, according to the distance.

Answer to question 10. The present cost of artificial ventilation of the mine is about $12 per day.

Answer to question 11. Six month's time, at the present rate of working, will exhaust all the profitable ore in sight above the 600-foot level.

Answer to question 12. Six month's time will also exhaust all profitable ore in sight between the 600-foot and the 1,000-foot level.

Answer to question 13. The depth of the present lowest level is 1,300 feet. The present machinery will be available for hoisting ore from a depth 400 feet below this level, and for pumping the mine 1,500 feet deeper.

Answer to question 14. The chief additional expense of hoisting ore, and pumping from a depth 1,000 feet below the 1,000-foot level will be the extra steam power required, and that is estimated to be but a small fractional proportion of the power required in hoisting and pumping from the 1,000-foot level.

Answer to question 15. The width of the productive vein-matter on the several levels which have been worked has varied from 4 feet to 40 feet.

Answer to question 16. The expense of prospecting the mine for the year ending June 30, 1871, was $116,371.

Answer to question 17. The value of the ore per ton has diminished from the upper levels downward.

T. B. SHAMP, Superintendent SavageMining Company.

VIRGINIA CITY, NEVADA, September 16, 1871.

Appendix F.

Office Hale &amp; Norckoss&#x27;S Silver-Mining Company,

Virginia, October 3, 1871.

DEAR SIR : In reply to your printed circular, received last month, I will state to

Sutro Tunnel. 37

questions Nos. 1 and 2: The size of our main shaft is 6 feet wide and 18 feet long, divided into three compartments. The cost of sinking this shaft has been $23 25 per foot, and of timbering the same $16 50 per foot, and, from the limited quantity of material possible to be excavated from a piece of ground of those dimensions, (necessarily employing the hoisting power only a small part of the time, and not continuously,) the increase in cost of sinking the shaft has not been perceptible, particularly as Water does not impede this work to so great an extent as when advancing downward near the surface.

Question No. 3. The average dimensions of our drifts and tunnels are 5-J feet wide and 7-rV feet high. The average cost of running these drifts is $8 per foot.

Question No. 4. The cost of timbering these drifts is $2 per running foot.

Question No. 5. From 3 to 12 feet per day is the distance run in these drifts, according to hours worked and character of the material penetrated.

Question No. 6. The cost of hoisting ore from present station is 50 cents per ton, and has not greatly varied therefrom when extracted from the upper levels.

Question No. 7. For the year ending June 30, 1871, the cost of pumping water has been s-J.::-JO.

Question No. 8. The water to be pumped is less than when working near the surface ; it is about one-sixth of the former volume.

Question No. 9. This company has paid from $9 to $12 per ton for milling its ores. (The mills pay their own transportation, which has been from 65 cents to $1 10 per ton.)

Question No. 10. As yet no increase in cost of ventilating the mine is noticed ; the expense has averaged us $4 per day.

Question No. 11. About five years.

Question No. 12. About three years.

Question No. 13. To a depth of 2,500 feet this company has nearly completed the placing of ponderous machinery to aid in the prospecting of the mine at greater depths. W«- have no ropes of that length yet, but will have them made long before required. Our reels are adapted to such lengths, being flat-steel wire-ropes.

Question No. 14. To a depth of 500 feet below our present lowest level (called the 1.300-foot level) no particular augmentation of expense will be necessary. For a greater depth I cannot at present state.

Question No. 15. The width of our pay-vein was, at 100 feet in depth, 90 feet ; 200 feet in depth, 80 feet; 300 feet in depth, 50 feet; 1,200 feet in depth, 45 feet ; 1,300 feet in depth, 80 feet.

Question No. 16. Our prospecting expenses for the year have been $147,000.

Question No. 17. The pay-ore lessens in value as we descend. It then increases in value, and again lessens to a still greater extent. Very respectfully, yours,

J. G. FAIR, Superintendent

Mr. H. G. WRIGHT,

Army Building, Neic TorTc.

Appendix G.

Office Chollar Potosi Mining Company,

Virginia City, Nevada, September — , 1871.

RESPECTED SIR : In compliance with your request made at this place I herewith submit the following as answers to the various questions contained in your circular bearing date at Virginia City, Nevada, July 28, 1871 :

Congressional Questions.

Question No. 1. Value of bullion extracted from mines on the Comstock lode.

Answer. Total amount of bullion extracted from this mine is $11,772,105 47.

Question No. 2. Their present and probable future production.

Answer. For the twelve months ending May 31, A. D. 1871, the average monthly yield of bullion was $288,285 25. For the months of June and July following the bullion production averaged $166,312. The future yield of bullion necessarily depends on the success of prospecting. At this writing indications are positively and deci-deadly against the hope that any twelve months in the future will nearly equal the production of the past year.

Question No. 3. The geological and practical value of said tunnel as an exploring work.

Answer. Geologically, science may derive information of value to students in that branch of learning, although the probabilities strongly favor the opinion that the same geological knowledge can be acquired more easily and at vastly less expense. Practically considered, after many years experience in mining— five of which have been exclusively devoted to the Comstock lode, in directing and superintending

mining operations — being thus employed, opportunities were abundant to gain a knowledge of the formations and to study the nature of the various deposits that make up this lode. Also, to satisfactorily determine water-sources that have supplied the subterranean reservoirs met with in explorations along this river.

The result of this experience dictates the follow conclusions : That the proposd adit known as the Sutro Tunnel is not now, and never will be, a necessity to the lode, either for prospecting purposes, ventilation, orfor the economical handling of metal-bearing material, waste or d6bris or as a means of entry or exit for men to the various mines located on the Comstock. The reasons why said adit is not needed for prospecting purposes : This company have a shaft and incline sunk immediately on the lode to the vertical depth, from the top of the shaft, of 1,250 or 1418 feet from point [A] as designated on Clarence King's atlas of Mining Industry. The shaft is located near the center of this company's claim ; that is, so far as a north and south line is considered. For a better understanding of the location of the shaft, and the explorations carried on from the same, reference is hereby made to the atlas mentioned above. From this shaft explorations have been, and always can be, carried on with far greater economy, more safety, and in a more satisfactory manner than could be done through the proposed adit, owing to the fact that the shaft, being on and passing through the lode, we have our entire operations, as it were, in a u nut-shell." Stations are made at each hundred feet in depth ; from these, drifts are driven running north and south, east and west, or at any other point of the compass desired. From these drifts, as they are pushed on, we can and do gather daily information of the value of material passed through ; the condition and prospect of the lode for the next level. Through this shaft we pass our men to the various sections of the mine allotted to them. Down here goes all the timber used in all portions of slopes, drifts, and winges, also the tools ; in short, everything needed for the perfect working of the mine. By aid of machinery at the surface all of this work is done. Allow me to ask how would it be to run in timber four miles through a tunnel, and hoist the same up seventeen hundred feet vertically, as we would be compelled to do— this company having done no work for two years last past below the 200-foot level of their shaft — and from there distribute them through the mine. Presuming we were down on the 1, 000-foot level extracting ore, and this tunnel, as is proposed, the means of entry and exit for ore, men, and timber, we would then be compelled to hoist our timber 800 feet by hand— as the projector of the tunnel assumes that no machinery is required to operate the mines after the tunnel is complete — and the poor toiling miner must climb up by sheer muscle-power the same distance. Imagine, if you can, hundreds, ay, thousands of men climbing up and down these vertical ladders distances varying from five to seventeen hundred feet, and then compare it with the ease and safety that they are placed at the various stations in the shaft by the aid of machinery we now have in use at our mine ; and does it not comport with good economy to spend the muscle-power at the face of drifts, or in the slopes, rather than exhaust the energies of your men climbing up and down immense vertical heights on ladders ? Hence I assert, without fear of successful contradiction, that for the purpose of exploring this lode the proposed tunnel would prove a positive failure.

Concerning the country east of the Comstock, and through which this proposed adit is supposed to pass, I claim no knowledge. All reasoning on what exists at great depths east must necessarily be theoretical. My conclusions are that, at the depth this proposed tunnel would come, no precious metal exists outside of the main vein. Some prominent croppings eastward have been operated on most of the time during the past eleven years. The few hundred feet in depth that have been attained on them resulted in practically exhausting the extremely limited amount of precious metals, and in nearly every instance has been the financial ruin of those interested.

To illustrate the supposed benefits to be derived from this proposed tunnel for ventilation, we will assume that the same is completed along the whole line, and connected with each shaft-— a bold assumption, I grant — the currents of air supposed to be passing rapidly through the tunnel and shafts, with all this imaginary air passing through these funnels, not a particle can be had at the slope we are working 700 feet west, as is the case in this claim, of the shaft. To get air in a slope or drift away from the shaft machinery must be used. All practical miners are aware of this fact, consequently the applying of compressed-air machinery for ventilating these mines, and using the engine in deep levels to hoist with is being considered, and will, no doubt, if the prospects of the lode justify, be soon put in operation. With this machinery, and a connection of the various shafts, a more perfect system of ventilation will be secured than any other method can afford, and at an expense that would be considered as nothing when compared with the expense attending the very imperfect manner of ventilation

5 proposed by the owners of the " adit franchise.' Handlma <

landlmg of ore. — Please, sir, come with me and examine the matter of passing the ore that this company is now mining, or ever has mined, through this proposed tunnel. We start at the mouth of this company's shaft, and go down 178 feet ; here is the station. WTe leave the shaft, and go in west 16° south for 700 feet ; here we are under where the large body of ore known as the Belvedere existed. North of us to the

Sutro Tunnel. 39

company's north line, and down below us 280 feet, making 458 feet in depth from mouth to shaft, is the section of country from which all the ore has been taken that produced the nearly $12,000,000 in bullion mentioned in the beginning as the gross product of the mine. Below this 458-foot level, we have gone 800 feet without finding ore. and as we attained depth the more discouraging onr prospects became. That is wby two years have passed without our making an effort to sink further. Had even the slightest encouragement been developed, we should have continued the sinking, and would have been at this date 300 feet below the level of the proposed tunnel.

Pardon this digression. Let us return to the point 700 feet west of the shaft, and consider the proposition of running this ore from here to the shaft, and dumping the same down a chute 2,000 feet in length. Why so long? Because the chute must be on an angle of 45° to conform to the west wall, and to reach the tunnel from this level at the shaft. Can a chute be made to work that distance and on that angle I We practical miners would promptly say, no, sir; as we find it very difficult to maintain chutes 300 or 400 feet in length standing vertical. Do we ever make them on angle ? Never at 45°, and never on any angle if we can avoid it, as they clog and wear much more quickly than vertical ones. Sir, permit me to ask, would you not consider us guilty of the most consummate folly to chute this ore down 2,000 feet (if it could be done) to this proposed tunnel, and run it out four miles for the privilege of hauling up heavy hills to mills, when we can run the car loaded with ore on the cage, hoist to the surface, l"/8 feet, place the ore in dumps made purposely to facilitate the loading of railroad cars or teams, and from this point the hauling is all the way down hill ? What does it cost for hoisting from this level ? During the month of July we hoisted 3,000 tons from here, drove the engine to run the blower for ventilating the drifts. To make steam necessary for this work ten cords of wood were consumed, or one-third of a cord each twenty-four hours. As you will notice, one car goes up, while the car in the next compartment of the shaft comes down. This arrangement makes hoisting easy, also very economical, and can be made to work equally well at 2,000 feet in depth as it does here at 200 feet. Fact is, the matter of hoisting from any depth up to 3,000 feet can be easily accomplished. How to get the ore out from these deep levels is not the important question on the Comstock. To find the ore to hoist, that is where the insurmountable difficulty comes in. To solve that problem requires more brain, muscle, and money than all other operations along the vein put together. Show us the ore, even at the depth of 3,000 feet, and I will give you a pledge, sir, that we will never ask how shall we get this ore out. Relative to this proposed adit as a means of entry and exit for men, the remarks already made are perhaps quite sufficient on that point. In brief, the whole tunnel project is simply impracticable, unnecessary, and totally uncalled for except as a drain. Here a few words will be applicable concerning the water-source and subterranean reservoirs that have been met with. All water found in this mine has been in reservoirs ; these were formed by the clays uniting, so that in shape they represented huge basins. The water-supplies* came from the surface. Melting of snows for thousands of years formed the water which circulated to and filled these reservoirs. Prospecting drifts pierced the clays and tapped these water deposits, and drained them, at the various stations, until the clays reached the west wall, which terminated the reservoirs. Below the 1,000-foot level in this mine water was not met with. On the 1,250-foot level there was no natural moisture. The Bullion claims, first adjourning us on the south, reached in depth 100 feet below our 1,250-foot station. At that point the earth was so intensely dry that dust caused from the working pervaded the drift, very much to the discomfort of the miners in said drift. If, in review, these facts are given their proper weight, the conclusions naturally follow that the construction of an immense adit to.drain the Chollar Potosi mine would be superfluous.

To the best of our knowledge we have made answer to the congressional questions. We must next proceed to answer those interrogatories propounded by your honorable body.

Commission Questions.

Question No. 1. Cost, at various depths, of sinking shafts estimated by the cubic foot removed, or by the running foot, for a shaft of given dimensions ?

To give answer to this I will take the main incline, which commences at a point 891 feet down from mouth of shaft, and continues down on an angle of 45° to the east, a distance of 612 feet, at which point is our deepest level. Size of excavation is 14 feet in width, 9 feet in height. This excavation, as timbered, forms two compartments. The one on the pump side is 6 feet in height, in clear of timbers, by 6 feet in width, in clear of timbers. The other, the hoisting compartment, is 6 feet in height by 4 feet in width.

Excavation cost per running or lineal foot $20 00

Timber, 200 feet, at 2^ cents per lineal foot : 5 0<

Timber framing and setting, per lineal foot 5 00

Wear and tear of machinery, oils, and incidentals 5 00

Total cost per running or lineal foot 35 00

These figures represent the average cost per lineal foot for running said incline from the beginning to the completion, or the entire length of 612 feet. Had we taken down other two compartments to correspond with the main or vertical shaft, the expense would not have been so great proportionally. Material passed through was syenite.

Question No. 2. The present cost of timbering the same with the increase, if any, •with the depth.

Answer to this question was merged in the answer made to No. 1, except "the increased cost of timbering as depth is attained." Practically speakitfg there is no increase! n the cost.

Question No. 3. The cost of drifting, in the various rocks met with in your operations, estimated either by the cubic foot or by the running foot, specifying the dimensions of the cross-section."

Answer. In answering this question I will take as an example our drift at the 178-foot station, the same that you passed through when you visited the mine. The drift is 700 feet in length from shaft to Belvidere country. *In making the drift all the material common to this section outside of the lode was passed through, such as audesite, quartzite, porphyry, and clay. The following figures show the cost per running or lineal foot :

Per foot

Running drift by contract, contractors furnishing candles $3 75

Timber and framing 1 85

Sharpening tools 1 00

Hoist and deposit earth 3 00

Total cost per foot 9 60

Size of drift outside of timbers is 6 feet 6 inches by 9 feet 5 inches by 5 feet 6 inches? (6 feet 6 by 9 feet 5 by 5 feet 6.) A diagram of shape and size of timber in drift was handed you. With your consent I make reference to said diagram to show size of drift in clear of timber.

Question No. 4. The cost of timbering the same.

Answer. As noted above, the timber and framing cost $1 85 per lineal foot. The putting of them in place was included in the contract for running.

Question No. 5. The daily progress made in the shafts and drifts through the various rocks, the largest force that can be worked to advantage being employed.

Answer. In drift from shaft at 178-foot station the average progress was 6 feet 6 inches — 6£ feet each twenty-four hours. In sinking the incline, average progress was 4 feet 8 inches each twenty-four hours. At both the incline and drift all was done that could be to hasten progress.

Question No. 6. The cost of raising ore, water, &c., from various depths.

Answer. At the 1,250-foot station material was taken up the incline, placed on the cages in shaft, and taken to the surface for an actual cost of 38 cents per ton. Had we succeeded in finding ore there in sufficient quantities to have kept the machinery steadily employed, 35 cents per ton would cover the cost of hoisting. The water quantity was so limited when we were operating in low levels that for weeks together the pumps would run one hour only out of the twenty-four. No record was kept of that expense.

Question No. 7. The cost of pumping at your mine for twelve months, preferably for the year ending June 30, 1871.

Answer. For two years last past this mine has been entirely exempted from pumping.

Question No. 8. Has the water in your mine increased or diminished with the depth, and in what proportion ?

Answer. As depth was attained water diminished; at the lowest level there was no water.

Question No. 9. The cost per ton of ore for milling, and, where the cost of transportation to the mills is included, the cost of the latter.

Answer. For the year ending May 31, 1871, this company paid $12 per ton for the milling and transportation of their ore. What the cost of transportation was I know not.

Question No. 10. What is the present cost of artificial ventilation of your mine, and how does it increase with the depth?

Answer. The points ventilated in this mine artificially at this time are three ; expense attending same is 75 cents per day. The cost of ventilation at the deepest le\els was $6 per day.

Question No. 11. How long a time, at the present progress of working, will it require to exhaust all the profitable ore in the mine above the 600-foot level ?

Answer. At present rate of working, three years' time will exhaust all the ore in the mine ; that is, all the ore that is known to exist.

Question No. 12. How long between the 600 and 1,000-foot levels?

Answer. Up to this date no ore Avorthy of mention has been found below the 600-foot level.

Sutro Tunnel. 41

Question No. 13. At what depth -will present machinery be available for hoisting the ore or clearing the mine from water ?

Answer. Two thousand and two hundred feet vertically ; that is, the machine we had in use when the work at lower levels was being prosecuted would have been suth'oicnt to have reached the distance above stated.

To question No. 14 answer will bo omitted, for the reason that, all work at our lower levels being suspended, to attempt to make answer could be nothing more than guessing.

Question No. 15. What is the width of the lode, and also of productive view matter, at the various levels in your mines ?

Answer. The width of the Coinstock is a matter that is to-day entirely undecided. The productive view matter in this mine has averaged about 45 feet in width.

Question No. 16. What has been the expense of prospecting the mine for the year past?

Answer. For the year ending last 31st of May, $143,800 were expended in repairs, prospecting, dead work, and incidentals. About $100,000 of that amount was spent strictly for prospecting.

Question No. 17. How does the pay-ore compare at each level, from the surface downward?

Answer. The best ore produced by this mine, both as to quantity and quality, was taken out from the surface downward to the 300-foot level. Below that point the ore diminished in quantity and quality until it ran out.

Having concluded and made answers to the best of my understanding of your questions, I beg leave to say that should some of the answers prove to you vague, I will be most happy to make further explanation, if you will at any time, by letter or otherwise, signify your desire for such. Permit me to add further, that by referring to Clarence King's Mining Industry, or the Annual Report of this company, you may gather the information to make clear what may prove cloudy to you in some answers I have made.

I am, sir, very respectfully, yours,

ISAAC L. REQUA, Superintendent of Chollar Potosi Mine.

Brevet Major General H. G. WRIGHT,

Senior officer of Sutro Tunnel Commission.

Explanation.

On folio 20 the cost of hoisting from the 1,250-foot level is 35 cents per ton. This work was done thirty months ago. At that time wood was $14 per cord ; now the price is $10. Other expenses were larger then than now.

Beyond a doubt further reductions in cost of fuel will be made; also other expenses which will so far economize operations that 25 cents would cover the actual expense of hoisting per ton from the 1,250-foot level.

I beg your indulgence-to express to your honorable committee my firm conviction concerning the utility of the proposed tunnel. If said tunnel, with the proposed lateral branches, was now complete, and the owners of the tunnel should sign a compact with the mine-owner agreeing to relinquish their right to collect royalty, also that the mine-owners should have the right of way through said adit to run ore-timber, &c., and that tolls for use of said tunnel should not be collected, I am sure true economy would then be to hoist the ore by machinery to the surface as we are now doing.

Not wishing to exhaust your patience by dry figures to prove the above conclusions, I will simply say that proof abundant can be given to substantiate the assertion. Respectfully, yours,

Isaac L. Requa.

Office Chollar Potosi Mining-Company,

Virginia, Nevada, July 21, 1871.

Gentlemen of the Sutro Tunnel Commission :

In reply to your questions concerning the cost of running the tunnel on the first station from new shaft of Chollar Potosi Mining Company west 700 feet, I beg leave to submit the following as the total cost per foot :

Per linear foot.

Running drift by contract, contractors provide candles $3 75

Timber and framing 1 85

Sharpening tools 1 00

Hoist and deposit earth 3 00

Total.. , 960

42

Sutro Tunnel.

Size of drift outside of timbers is 6 feet 6 inches by 9 feet 5 inches by 5 feet 6 inches. The diagram connected gives the size in clear of timber. Respectfully, yours,

Isaac L. Requa.

Superintendent.

3 feet 2 inches.

4 feet 1 inch.

Sutro Tunnel. 43

Appendix H.

GOLD HILL, NEVADA, October 4, 1871.

DEAR SIR : The following are my answers to your various questions, which I have endeavored to answer as correctly as possible :

The Imperial and Empire shaft, 7| by 20 feet outside of timbers, containing 150 cubic feet to each running foot, was sunk between the 1,200 and 1,300-foot levels for 36 cents per foot, all in very hard blasting rock, or 24 cents per cubic foot, including labor of timbering. This portion of the shaft was sunk in the vein where the quartz was very hard, arid a large quantity of water to contend with. In. good ground the same shaft can be sunk for 15 cents per cubic foot, including labor of timbering, or $18 90 per running foot.

No. 2. The cost to timber a shaft 7|by 20 outside of timbers, for 100 running feet, will require 15,000 feet of 12 by 12 and 10 by 15, and 11,200 feet of plank, equal to 2£ feet of timber for each cubic foot of earth removed. Heavy ground will, of course, require more timber.

No. 3. The cost of drifting varies under so many different circumstances it is next to impossible to give a correct estimate. The size of our drifts, usually 6 by 9 outside of timber, with good cool air, can be run for $7 per foot in hard blasting ground. The same ground with thermometer 110° will cost $32 per running foot, or 59 cents per cubic foot.

No. 4. Cost of timbering the above drifts with sets 5 feet from centers would be $3 24 per running foot, or 6 cents per cubic foot.

No. 5. Daily progress in good air, 7 feet ; thermometer 110°, 18 inches to 2 feet.

No. 6. The cost of raising ore, &c., from 1,300-foot level to the surface is 27 cents per ton ; that is, running our present machinery full capacity. Estimated cost from 2,000-foot level, 50 cents per ton. This estimate includes every expense except wear and tear of machinery.

No. 7. The cost of raising the water for the past year is difficult to get at. Not having any pumps it was raised to the service with a tank which we run only when absolutely necessary.

No. 8. See no perceptible change in water from 250-foot level to 1,300-foot level ; if any, it has decreased.

No. 9. Company mill ; cost of milling, $7 90, including hauling, which was 45 cents per ton.

No. 10. Cost of artificial ventilation : one Root's blower, $18 per day, carrying air to 1,340-foot level.

No. 11. All the available ore from the 600-foot level to the surface is exhausted, unless the cost of milling be reduced.

No. 12. From 600-foot level to our present lowest or 1,300-foot level, the vein in Imperial and Empire mines has been comparatively barren.

No. 13. Our present machinery in use at the mine will be available for hoisting to a depth of at least 2,500 feet.

No. 14. The width of the lode at the various levels varies; on 700-foot level the vein was 425 feet between walls ; on 900-foot level, 308 ; on 1,300-foot level, 150 feet from east to west wall ; productive vein-matter varies in width.

No. 15. The cost of prospecting for the year past was about $110,000.

No. 16. The pay-ore was quite uniform from the surface down to 700-foot level, where the vein had got to be so very wide and ore so scattered it could not be made to pay. The vein seems to be getting more concentrated as we go deeper. Very respectfully, yours, &c.,

R. N. GRAVES, Superintendent Imperial and Empire Mines.

Brevet Major General H. G. WRIGHT,

Sutro Tunnel Commissioner.

Appendix I.

GOLD HILL, August 31, 1871.

DEAR SIR' : Your favor of 28th ultimo duly received, and all your questions noted and answered as follows, as concisely as possible with regard to accuracy : The value of bullion extracted from the Yellow Jacket mine since date

of incorporation in February, 1863, as per books of company, wan $12,772, 172

Bullion from ore sold since the above date, and product of mine previous to the same, estimated at 1,500,000

Total amount of buUion 14,272,172

The present yield of the mine is about $180,000 per month, or about $2,000,000 per year. The probable future yield will no doubt equal the past.

The geological value of the tunnel will consist in its showing a section of the country twenty-two" hundred (thousand?) ('22,000) feet east of the Comstock lode, a longer section than is probably shown by any similar work in the United States, and consequently of value to science. The practical value of said tunnel will be its use as an adit for the lode; as a means of ventilation it will be of value to any mine connecting its workings with the tunnel, but I think of no more value than the connections for air passages between the several shafts, as at present made. For the purposes of ex- i tracting ore above the tunnel level, it will be of very little value. We find that chutes j over 150 feet in length are very expensive to keep in repair and open. Chutes of even that length are apt to become choked, when there is great danger and difficulty in clearing them, for which reason we seldom make our working levels more than 100 feet apart, (vertical,) or about 140 feet on slope of lode. Another objection is the additional labor of climbing and upraising of tools and timbers.

The cost of sinking shafts varies under so many different circumstances that I can only give practical results that I can obtain from present and former work. A shaft 7 by 18 feet outside of timbers, or full size, can be sunk for $17 64 per running foot, or 14 cents per cubic foot of earth removed. This is in blasting ground, and includes labor of timbering.

Yellow Jacket shaft, between 1,000 and 1,100-foot levels, 8 by 24 feet, full size, was sunk for $27 per running foot, or about 14 cents per cubic foot, all blasting ground. Temperature of air 93°, labor of timbering included.

Incline below 1,100-foot level, full size, 9 by 14 feet, an angle of 45°, all blasting ground, sunk for $20 per running foot, or l&J cents per cubic foot. Average 3} feet per day ; four shifts of six hours each, four men each.

The cost of timbering such ground as the above, that is, cost of timber and framing the same, will be about 3 feet of timber (lumber or board measure) for each cubic foot of earth removed, or say 10 cents per cubic foot of shaft. Heavy clay or swelling ground Avill require twice the same.

The cost of drifting, like cost of sinking shafts, depends on character of ground and temperature of air. Have run drifts in hard blasting ground, (cool air, size full,) 6 by 9, for $7 per running foot, or 13 cents per cubic foot of earth removed. Same ground, with temperature of air 107°, cost $30 per running foot, or 55J cents per cubic foot, cost of labor of timbering included in the above. With cool air made 3^ feet per day ; with air at 107°, 20 feet per month.

Cost of timber for drift above size (6 by 9 feet) will be $3 42 per running foot, or 6£ cents per cubic foot. Have run drifts the above dimensions, good working ground, and timber the same, 10 feet per twenty-four hours.

The cost of raising ore, waste, &c., the past ten days, from 1,130-foot level to the surface, (3,025 tons,) was 37£ cents per ton of 2,000 pounds. Estimate that we can raise ore, &c., from 2,000-foot level for 64 cents per ton. The above includes all cost of engineers, brakeman, firemen, fuel, water, oils, &c., but not wear and tear. Can raise or lower men to 2,000-foot level, in four minutes, for 6 cents per man.

The cost of pumping the past year at Yellow Jacket mine has been very small. Have not run pumps for sixty days at a time. Water of whole mine has not exceeded 1 inch (miner's measure, 6-inch pressure) the whole year.

The water in the mine has decreased from 20 inches, at 250-foot level, to less than 1 inch, 1,130-foot level ; (miner's measure, 6-inch pressure.)

The cost of milling at present is $12 per ton. Cost of transportation to river mills is about $2 50 per ton ; to steam mills within county lines, about 60 cents per ton. Cost of transport ation,_included in cost of milling ore, $12.

Cost of running two of Root's patent blowers, No. 3 and No. 5, is about $12 per day. Carry air to four different points ; nearest 1,300 feet from blower ; most distant 2,200 feet. I am unable to state how long a time it will take to exhaust all profitable ore above 600-foot level, or between 600 and 1,000 foot levels. I am ignorant of the quantity in place.

The present machinery in use at the mine, with addition of necessary pumps, ropes, &c., will be available for hoisting and pumping to a depth of 2,500 feet from surface.

The width of the lode at the various levels has never been definitely determined. Have made a cross-section of over 400 feet on 1,000-foot level without finding either side or wall. Productive vein-matter has varied from 12 inches to 24 feet in width.

The cost of prospecting the mine the past year has been about 30 per cent, of the whole expense of mine for labor and cost of materials, or say $172,000.

Pay-ore has been very regular from the surface to 1,100-foot level.

You will please excuse my tardiness in replying to your various questions. Absence and want of time are my only excuse. Yours, respectfully,

THOMAS G. TAYLOR, Superintendent.

Brevet Major General H. G. WRIGHT,

Sutro Tunnel Commissioner.

Sutro Tunnel. 45

Appendix J.

Office Of State Surveyor General And Land Register,

Carson City, Nevada, November 8, 1871.

SIR : In reply to your inquiries, hereinafter given, and numbered from 1 to 7, 1 have to make the following report :

" 1st. The fall of Carson River from the Mexican Dam to the best location for a large dam above and nearest to Dayton. (This is probably at the point where the Franklin Mill-dam now is.")

The fall is 155 feet from Mexican Dam to the Franklin Dam.

" 2d. The fall of Carson River from the point selected for a large dam to a point opposite the Sutro Tunnel."

The point selected is the Franklin Dam. Fall of river from this point to a point opposite Sutro Tunnel is 100 feet.

" 3d. The height of high water in the river when highest and when lowest ; also the height in each month of the year, if possible to be ascertained, and the rapidity of flow at these different times."

The average flow, taking one year with another, is as follows, estimated in square-feet section, with a velocity of four miles per hour : In the month of May, 600 square feet ; in June, 700 ; in July, 700 • in August, 600 ; in September, 500 ; in October, 500 ; in November, 400 ; in December, 400 ; in January, 400 ; in February, 400 ; in March, 400 ; and in April, 500. This gives an average monthly section of 508.33 square feet, with the velocity as above given. The perpendicular rise and fall of the river per month cannot be given, but the extremes of highest water in floods and lowest water in drought are from 8 to 10 feet in the average width of the channel.

I would state that the amount of water flowing in the Carson River this year is extremely small— far less than ever known since the settlement of the State; and it is not probable that a similar reduction will happen in many years. I have, therefore, based no estimate or calculation upon this year. For the months of August, September, and October, and up to the present time, the flow has been only 25 cubic feet on a grade of 10 feet to the mile.

"4th. The cross-section of the river, at the best point for a large dam, to be sufficiently large and high to hold all the water to the level of the Mexican Dam."

This cross-section is selected as the Franklin Dam, and is shown on accompanying diagram.

"^5th. Approximate area in square miles of the reservoir or lake thus created."

Exclusive of any overflow at the town of Empire, a tract 15 chains wide, and eleven and three-quarters miles long from Mexican Dam to the proposed large dam, the surface of water thus created would be 1,410 acres, or two and one-fifth square miles.

" 6th. Estimated dimensions and cost of dam to answer the above purpose."

This dam should be 837 feet long and 155 feet high, (see accompanying diagram,) and would cost not less than $'200,000. But by moving the site one mile up the river

./* Al TTI 1 1 ' T-V _ J 1 -I • • 1 1^1 .-• -1X-,

its

average and accumulated flow of water ; also, estimated cost of construction of canal." The length of canal would be five and one-half miles. The size of canal would be a cross-section of GOO square feet. The cost of construction of canal, taking a mean average between excavating and flumiu^, would be $250.000.

With the exception of the fall of river aud distances herein given, the estimates could only be approximated ; want of time has prevented my making a careful and accurate estimate.

John Day,

Surveyor General State of Nevada. ADOLPH SUTRO, Esq.,

San Francisco, California.

46

Soteo Tunnel.

Sutro Tunnel.

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Appendix L.

The following estimate is based upon four miles or 21,120 running feet of the Sutro Tunnel complete :

The large timbers are 12 inches square, and are set 5 feet apart from center to center.

The lagging are 3 inches thick, 6 inches wide, and 5 feet long, containing lumber as follows, to wit :

Feet.

4,225 bents, containing 840 feet each 3,549,000

4,225 bents lagged, containing 570 feet each 2, 407, 680

8,450 supports for track, containing 36 feeteach 304, 200

84,480 lineal feet, or 1 6 miles, track timber, 6 by 6 253, 440

Total feet 6,°14,320

At $40 per M $260,572 80

4,225 bents properly in place, at $25 each 105, 625 00

Total cost 366,197 80

Cost per linear foot $17,33.88

Respectfully,

J. C. HAZLETT. The Hon. THE SUTRO TUNNEL COMMISSIONERS.

Appendix M.

SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA. November 23, 1871.

MY DEAR SIR : It was my intention to avail myself of the opportunity to present some additional statements in regard to the Sutro Tunnel, but my time has been so very much occupied since my return to California that it has been almost impossible for me to find the necessary leisure.

I flunk now that I shall have to reply to the statements of some of the superintendents of the mines on the Comstock lode after your report is published, so I may ascertain what position they take ; my reply, of course, can then form no part of your report.

You are, no doubt, well aware of the continued and persistent prevarications of the men who oppose the great work in which I am engaged ; and since I have given a complete history of the tunnel enterprise and the motives for that opposition in a speech delivered by me at Virginia City, Nevada, some time ago, I inclose a copy of the same, and would respectfully ask to have the same embodied in the appendix to your report.

That a work of the magnitude of the Sutro Tunnel, which will radically change the mode of working the mines, should find much local opposition, cannot be wondered at. It is the old fight of stage-coaches against railroads, and such fights will always take place as long as improvements are contemplated.

I forwarded to you some days ago estimates of the cost of large dam across Canon River, with other statistical information about the water-power on the river, which I hope has duly reached you.

I am, dear sir, your most obedient servant,

Adolph Sutro.

Major General H. G. WRIGHT,

Senior Officer Sutro Tunnel Commissioners.

Speech Of Adolph Sutro, On The Sutro Tunnel And The Bank Of

California.

FELLOW-CITIZENS : For some years past I have been closely identified with an enterprise which has a vital bearing upon the prosperity of this section of country, and if I appear before you now for the first time in my life as a public speaker, it is with a thorough conviction that upon its success depends your future welfare.

You have all heard of the Sutro Tunnel, but I believe there are many among you who do not entirely understand its importance, and the great results which must flow from its construction. If you will have a little indulgence with me then, I shall try

Sutro Tunnel. 49

to explain to yon what the tunnel will accomplish, what has thus far prevented its construction, and show you that by joint action you can easily consummate and carry out what appears to be a gigantic undertaking.

It will become necessary, in the course of my remarks, in order that you may properly understand this tunnel project, to expose some of the doings of an institution called the California Bank. I shall tell the truth, without fear or reservation, for 1 have come here to " light it out on this line," and I intend to do so, " though the heavens fall."

About ten years ago, Peter O'Reilly discovered the existence of silver on what is now known as the Cometock lode, the richest silver vein of which there is any record in ancient or modern history. Work during that space of time progressed rapidly, and where it was an easy task to extract the minerals from these mines in the beginning, it is now one of extreme difficulty/ They have reached an average depth of probably 1,000 feet, and we find that nearly fifty steam-engines are required to pump out the water and hoist the ore. The expenses of keeping so much machinery in motion is immense, and even at this present time they absorb so much of the profits that it has already become unprofitable to work some of the mines.

It is not only the original cost of the machinery and the enormous consumption of fuel, in a country where no coal exists, but the constant additions, the wear and tear of engines, boilers, cables, cages, &c., &c.; the vexatious delays by breaking down ; the lengthening out of the pumps, pipes, and rods; the excavations for and the construction of pump-bobs ; the engineers, firemen, and other attendants required ; in fact, the innumerable and constant expenses connected with the operation of extensive and heavy machinery, which has to be increased for every foot of descent, and which makes it only a question of time when these mines will have to be abandoned, no matter how rich the ore.

In addition to all this, we find that the heat at the present depth has so much increased that, notwithstanding the improved ventilating apparatus, the men can do but one half the work they could in a cool, healthy atmosphere, and the loss in consequence is more than a million of dollars per annum.

Is it any wonder, then, that these, the richest mines in the whole world, will no longer pay under the present unwise system of working? You are told that in order to make them profitable again your wages must be reduced, and next in succession you will be told that white labor does not pay any more at all, but that Chinese must take its place. If the mines do not pay now, what will be their condition in two or three years from now ? If it requires from forty to fifty steam-engines to work them at a depth of 1,000 feet, how many will be required at a depth of 1,500 or 2,000 feet? If the thermometer now stands at 95 or 100 degrees Fahrenheit, and the miners become consumptive for the want of oxygen in the air, and can do but one half theif usual amount of work, what will become of them at that greater depth ? Will it be possible to work them at all ?

I might cite numerous instances of mines in Mexico, and all parts of the world, which had to be abandoned on account of the rapidly increasing expenses as depth was reached, but I cannot go into these details on the present occasion ; all I can say to you is, that experience in all places and at all times has shown that mines at some time do reach a depth where the constantly increasing cost of mining exceeds the yield, and hence we find that during several thousand years of mining operations, even by means of tunnels and other auxiliaries, the greatest depth that has yet been reached on any mine in the world is but 2,700 feet.

The laws of nature and of mechanics are alike everywhere, and it is my fii " 'f

that some of the mines on the Comstock lode have already reached a depth w no longer pays to work them, and that they all will reach that depth before a tunnel can possibly be completed. What then will become of the once flourish, counties of Story, Ormsby, Lyon, Washoe, and Douglas, which almost entirely depend on the produce of these mines? Is it not proper that every good and well-thinking citizen should earnestly reflect upon the fate that would overreach this commonwealth should that great and only source of our prosperity cease to exist ?

There would no longer be employment for the miner, the laborer, the mill-hand, the carpenter, the blacksmith, the mason, the teamster. No longer would there be anyone to support and patronize your newspapers, groceries, bar-rooms, hotels, livery, stables, express companies, assay offices, dry goods, clothing, millinery, drug, hardware,, cigar, fruit, and book stores.

Your dwelling-houses would be deserted; your stores without tenants; your real, estate valueless; your mills would be idle; no more lumber would be required; your farmers and gardeners would no longer have a market ; your State government would commence to totter; the assessor would find his assessment-roll grow gradually less;, the treasurer would see his cash account diminish in the same proportion ; your State credit would be sadly shaken ; the people in the mining districts of the easteVn porti of Nevada would have to bear the whole burden of taxation to support the g

S. Ex. 15 4

input and to pay the interest on the State debt, and bankruptcy, ruin, and desolation would be brought upon a once flourishing country.

This is a sad picture; it is its darkest side ; but is it not well, while we are still in a condition to act, while we have sufficient strength left to go to some exertion, while we have the means for self-preservation, to look the enemy boldly in the face and devise such means as will avert the calamity ?

The only remedy which presents itself, sure and certain in its operations, is the construction of the Sutro Tunnel. The day work is commenced 011 that tunnel, with a reasonable prospect of completing it, that day you give a new lease of life to this section of country. From that day on you instill new confidence into the future ; from that day on your real estate and other property will once more assume a value, and people will no longer say to you, as nine out of ten do now, that they are going to leave the country in a few months.

Great tunnels have been constructed for centuries in all countries where mining is carried on intelligently, and they have accomplished precisely what we desire to accomplish here. I might give you instances of tunnels constructed, three or four times the length of the one proposed here, while they gave but one-sixth the depth ; I might relate to you the magnificent results obtained from their completion; I might tell you of the enormous fortunes which were obtained thereby, and give you many other interesting particulars were it not for the want of time to-night.

The Sutro Tnnnel, starting at a point near Carson River, will reach the Comstock lode in a distance of 20,178 feet, and cut the same at a perpendicular depth of 1,922 feet, or a depth along the dip of the lode of 2,900 feet below the floor of the Gould & •Curry Company's former office. In order to expedite the work, four shafts will be sunk 'On the tunnel route, from the bottom of which, at the proper depth of the tunnel level, drifts will be extended in each direction. After reaching the Comstock lode, the tunnel will be continued northerly along the lode to and beyond the Sierra Nevada mine, and southerly along the lode to and beyond American Flat.

A very elaborate report was made some time ago by R. G. Carlyle, esq., an engineer « of a high order of ability, on the details of construction and cost of the tunnel ; his report covers about 200 foolscap pages, is full of illustrations, and in its details altogether a creditable and reliable work ; his estimate gives the cost of the tunnel at about $100 in gold per foot, which, probably, is somewhat below the mark, taking into consideration the unknown difficulties usually encountered in such extensive works ; he estimates the time necessary to complete it at two and a half years.

The principal advantages this tunnel will create, as far as mining operations on the Comstock lode are concerned, may be enumerated as follows :

First. All pumping-machinery may be dispensed with as soon as the tunnel is com- :pleted. for the shafts now existing on the Comstock lode may at once be connected with the tunnel by boring, which is at the present time accomplished rapidly, and at small expense, thus draining off the water from the shafts and permitting their connection with the tunnel without delay.

Second. The moment this connection is accomplished the most perfect ventilation is insured— drawing off the fumes of powder like a chimney would 2,000 feet in height, cooling the atmosphere, giving health and vigor to the miners, and preserving the timbers.

Third. The mines may thereafter be opened by numerous stations or galleries to the whole depth of 2,900 feet, thus showing the different bodies of ore contained in the mines, exposing many millions of treasure to the eye, and increasing their value in proportion.

Fourth. It will give a great impetus to the exploration of those mines which have thus far been unproductive, particularly those north of the Gould &. Curry mine, and those on American Flat, which, to a large extent, have been lying idle on account of the great burden of exploring an unproductive mine through perpendicular shafts.

Fifth. For the reasons already stated, the extraction of ore will be so much facilitated and stimulated that the present production of twelve or sixteen millions of bullion may be increased to, or even be made to exceed, fifty millions of dollars per annum.

Sixth.. Not only the pumping-engines may be dispensed with, but also those for hoisting ; for after the shafts are connected, instead of hoisting the ore to the surface, and transporting it by means of wagons or railroad to the mills on Carson River, at an expense of at least three dollars per ton, it will fall down to the tunnel level by its own gravity, at no expense at all, while a railroad in the tunnel, but four miles in length, can'deliver the ore at the mills on Carson River at an expense of twenty cents ;pt?r ton.

Seventh. By this great saving in extraction and transportation, and the abolishment of all steam-hoisting and pumping engines, which now eat up all the profits, it will be made possible to take out the immense bodies of low-grade ores, assaying from $2 to $20 per ton, and which are known to exist on the Comstock lode, and which may be

Sutro Tunnel. 51

concentrated by means of the water which the tunnel itself will furnish. Five hundred millions of dollars, at a low estimate, contained within this mountain, without the tunnel, will forever remain slumbering in the bowels of the earth, for the expenses of extraction, under the present system, are greater than the value they contain.

Eighth. After the completion of the tunnel the mines may, without the use of steam-engines, be worked to great depth below the level of the tunnel, by conducting through pipes the water which may be collected on the surface from melting snow and rains, together with that contained in the mines, to hydraulic engines, or turbines, placed at the bottom of the shafts at the tunnel-level, thus using a portion of the very water which costs so much to pump out at present, as a most economical and useful motive-power to propel pumps, which raise the water from great depths below and discharge it through the tunnel.

Professor Wei ssbach, 'the best living authority, gives the power furnished by fifty gallons of water per second at 1,800 horse-power, at a depth of 2,000 feet — more power than all the engines have now in operation upon the Comstock lode. It may safely be stated, therefore, that by means of the Sutro Tunnel the Comstock lode may be profitably worked to a depth of at least 3,500 feet — a greater depth than has yet been reached in any mine in the world.

Ninth. Where only 2,000 men are now employed, at wages which may be cut down at any time, after the completion of the tunnel more than 10,000 would find profitable employment on the Comstock lode alone. The cost of mining would be so much reduced that those mines which now barely pay expenses would be enabled to pay regular dividends, and allow liberal wages to the men employed.

Tenth. The construction of the tunnel, giving a future to this country, would enhance the value of all property, restore confidence, and place the affairs of the people on a sound and solid basis.

While the tunnel would create a revolution in operations on the Comstock lode and secure the future of these mines for fifty or a hundred years to come, it will carry with it still more important results.

I now approach a subject which may properly be looked upon as the most important feature of this tunnel enterprise. I refer to the discovery and development of mines along the tunnel route, granted by act of Congress to the extent of 4,000 feet in length on every lode discovered.

The proposed tunnel will penetrate to the very center of this great silver-bearing mountain containing the Comstock lode, and traverses a country chiefly consisting of greenstone porphyry, a formation pronounced by Humboldt and others to be eminently productive of silver mines. '

It is a fact well known to every miner that many lodes exist which do not reach up to the surface, and which are usually discovered accidentally, while running drifts or tunnels for some other lode ; in miner's parlance, they are called " blind lodes," an expression derived from the fact that they are not visible at the surface. Upon these blind lodes the miner builds his hopes ; they give him nerve, and perseverance to follow his toilsome labors ; their mysterious existence, the wealth which they are presumed to contain, and the uncertainty of their precise location, have a powerful bearing on the imagination of man, and are" the levers which induce the undertaking of tasks by even single individuals from which they would otherwise shrink.

In a mineral-bearing region the hopes of discovering and opening valuable mines by running horizontal adits into a mountain are generally well founded ; but nowhere on the face of the earth do we find a mountain range containing a vein as valuable as the Comstock lode, and a formation equally favorable for the existence of a series of mines. It is not only reasonable to suppose, but quite evident, that the immense convulsion which rent the earth in twain, and created the fissure which is known as the Comstock lode, at the same time must have cracked and opened the earth's crust in many other places.

These are only theories, but they are theories believed and adopted by every scientific man, and by every common miner, and confirmed by experience. It may^&erefore, safely be predicted that the proposed tunnel, which will penetrate to the very bowels of Mount Davidson, will discover and open more treasure and wealth to the east and west of the Comstock lode than were ever before discovered by any work of this kind. Independently of the large revenue the Tunnel Company will derive from draining the Comstock lode; from the transportation of men, ore, rock, and timber, independently of the great value of the company's land, and independently of any other consideration, the discovery and development of the mines contained in this argentiferous belt would justify the construction of this tunnel, simply as an exploring work, and for that purpose alone it should be looked upon as one of the best planned, legitimate, and promising mining enterprises ever undertaken in any mining district.

And now, fellow-citizens, allow me to give you a short history of my struggles in con-: ncction with this tunnel project, and let me explain to you what causes have prevented its success thus far.

On the 4th of February, 1865, the legislature of Nevada granted a franchise, giving

xne the exclusive right of way for fifty years, for the construction of a tunnel, commencing in the foot-hills near Carson River, to and beyond the Com.stock lode. The charter did not specify any rates for drainage or other services, but left that open to private agreement by the mining companies.

I now invited all parties who wished to dp so to join in the enterprise, and an association was formed under the name and style of the Sutro Tunnel Company, of which William M. Stewart, our present Senator, was duly elected president. A proposition was submitted to the mining companies "that the Sutro Tunnel Company would agree to raise the funds for the construction of the tunnel abroad, in quarters where cheap capital abounds, provided the mining companies would agree beforehand to pay certain rates of charges for drainage and otherwise after the tunnel should be completed and actually benefit them."

When the necessity and importance of the tunnel, and the immense advantages which would be derived therefrom by the stockholders of the mining companies, had been thoroughly explained, which, however, required a number of months, contracts, drawn by some of the best lawyers of San Francisco, were adopted and signed by the following-named companies on the Comstock lode :

Ophir, Central, California, White &• Murphy, Best & Belcher, Gould & Curry, Savage, Hale & Norcross, Chollar-Potosi, Alpha, Bacon, Gold Hill Quartz Mill and Mining Company, Confidence, Imperial, Empire, Yellow Jacket, Crown Point, Belcher, Overman, and by several private individuals owning claims.

Under these contracts, the companies agreed, and made the fulfillment of the terms a mortgage upon their respective mines, that they would pay to the Sutro Tunnel Company forever, for every ton of pay ore extracted from any part of the mines, whether from the surface or through the tunnel, two dollars, from the time the tunnel or its branches should perpendicularly reach under them, or should actually drain the mines. There were other charges provided for for the transportation of rock, timber, men, &c., &c., which need not be enumerated here ; it must suffice to state that, under these contracts, at the rate of production at that time, the mining companies ha<l agreed to pay to the Sutro Tunnel Company at the rate of about $7,000 per day, while these daily payments, after the tunnel should increase the production, were expected to reach $20,000, and still make a saving of twice that amount to the mining companies, by means of the immense advantages the tunnel would furnish. After these contracts were duly signed, sealed, and delivered, in triplicate, one copy being retained by the mining companies, one copy deposited in the vaults of the Bank of California at San Francisco, and one copy being delivered to the Sutra Tunnel Company, I started, as the duly authorized agent of all concerned, for Washington, where I arrived in June, 1866, expecting to obtain from Congress such additional privileges and rights as Congress alone could grant, (the title to all public lands and mines in this section still being in the Government,) and as were considered necessary in order to obtain the required funds for the construction of the tunnel.

After some efforts, a law .passed the United States Congress, which was approved by the President of the United States on the 25th day of July, 1866, giving to me, my heirs, and assigns, (in trust for all concerned,) the following important rights :

First. The right of way forever, from the foot-hills on Carson River, to and beyond the Comstock lode, and on any lode which should be cut or discovered by the tunnel.

Second. The title to 1,280 acres of land at the mouth of the tunnel.

Third. The title to all the mines which should be cut by the tunnel, and which were not already owned by others at that time.

Fourth. It compelled the mining companies, those who had signed the contracts, as well as those who had not, to contribute forever the rates of charges named in the aforesaid contracts, and it made their titKsubject to that condition.

Congress, in this last section, assumes the function of regulation or administration of the mines in an important argentiferous locality, by recognizing the necessity and importance of a deep tunnel and the equitable adjustment of payment therefor. The rates to be paid to the tunnel company might as well have been named in the act, but Congress preferred to simply refer to the rates named in the contracts, as agreed upon by the mining companies, and in consideration of the immense efforts which had already been made, and which were supposed to be required to carry out so gigantic a work, imposed no clause of forfeiture, but declared all the rights granted as vested forever in the grantee.

Thus fortified with a most valuable mining grant, the first one ever made by this Government to an individual, and provided with other privileges worth several millions of dollars per annum, I proceeded to New York, expecting to raise the requisite funds without any difficulty.

The whole merits of the enterprise were fully set forth in a pamphlet published by ine and submitted to the first and wealthiest men of that great metropolis, among whom were Commodore Vanderbilt, William B. Astor, and many others, but, in every instance, one obstacle presented itself, and that was, that if the statements made were correct, there could be no difficulty in so magnificent an undertaking to raise some of

Sutro Tunnel. 53

tho funds, even if it be but a small portion of the sum required, at home, and I soon became convinced that this was the only true course to be pursued. I requested these griitlenien to express their views in a communication to me, which might be submitted to the people of California and Nevada, and, as a consequence, they addressed to me the following letter:

" NEW YORK, October 5, 1866.

" DEAR SIR : We have carefully examined your project for a draining and mining tunnel to the Comstock lode in the State of Nevada, and consider the same an enterprise which, in our opinion, when carried out, will prove of incalculable benefit to the inimis 'on Hint lode, and at the same time maybe a source of large revenue to the parties undertaking it.

"We have, taken some pains to ascertain what chances exist in this city to obtain the necessary capital, and have come to the conclusion that you will find it a matter of serious difficulty to convince the people of New York at large of its value ; the principal and, in our opinion, fatal objection to its success here at present being the tact that no portion of the capital has been subscribed on your coast.

"If the mining companies on the Comstock lode, and the people of Nevada and Cal-

i ifornia, who are familiar with the value of your mines, would evince their confidence

in this enterprise, by subscribing a portion of the requisite capital, say $400,000 or

^oUO.OOO, and work on the tunnel is actually commenced, we think you will find com-para

'tively an easy task to obtain the balance of the funds here.

"We would consequently advise you not to lose any valuable time in futile attempts i here or in Europe, where, no doubt, the same objections will be raised, but to return at once to San Francisco and use your efforts there to get the work started.

" Let some of the leading men on your coast, who are known here for their commer-

! cial standing and their integrity, form a preliminary board of directors, and you may

then, while the tunnel is daily progressing, return to New York, we think, with confidence

of success, and we shall use our best efforts to assist you in accomplishing your

object.

" Your perseverance and the practical and able manner in which you have presented this laudable undertaking to the public deserve our commendations, and it shall be a source of gratification to us to see your labors crowned with success. 1 We are, dear sir, respectfully yours,

" Samuel Willets. " M. Herzog.

'' Daniel T. Willets. " Moses Taylor.

<J. H. De Bevoise. ''Peter Cooper.

'John Silsby. "August Belmout.

'W. S. Martin. " J. & Wm. Seligman & Co.

' Eugene S. Ballin. " Eugene Kelly.

"John T. Martin. " R. C. Fergusson.

" B. Silliman. " Wm. T. Coleman.

" Emil Heinemann. " C. K. Garrison.

"Daniel H. Temple. "Duncan, Sherman & Co.

"J. H. Coghill & Co. "Francis Skiddy. "J. Perry, Jr. "Johnson & Lazarus.

"Polhamius & Jackson. " Wm. B. Ogden. " Mott & Justh. " J. C. Fremont.

" Theodore F. Lewis. " R. L. Cutting. "John T. Daly. "David Hoadley.

" D. AppletorT& Co. " C. P. Huutiugton. " Wm. Aufermann. " Geo. A. Freeman.

"Z. Dederick. " Sarn'l L. M. Barlow.

"J. & H. Greenbaum. "M. Morgan's Sons. "A. SUTRO, Esq."

It is evident that the persons who signed that letter, representing probably $100,000,000, looked upon the enterprise as too magnificent altogether, which created the suspicion that something was behind the scenes, and they naturally wanted a substantial indorsement out here.

So, in August, 1866, I concluded to return to San Francisco, in order to follow out the suggestions made in the aforesaid letter, and submitted the matter to the mining companies and to many of the principal merchants of San Francisco.

While this question was under consideration, the legislature of Nevada, which was then in session, passed a memorial and resolutions, asking Congress to loan its credit to this important work, in case sufficient capital could not be secured from private sources, and in a lengthy report set forth its reasons why the nation should feel a deep interest in its execution.

The question as to subscriptions to the Tunnel Company by the mining companies had in the mean time been fully discussed in San Francisco ; and after some delay a number of companies agreed to and did subscribe through their trustees sums aggregating

together, with subscriptions from private persons, about $600,000, and there was every prospect of seeing them increased in a few weeks to $1.000,000 or more in San Francisco alone.

But now commenced the tug of war ; at the very moment when I was on the full road to success, when everybody commenced to look upon the whole affair as quite sure of being consummated, and when I myself was led to think that my struggles were about over, they only fairly commenced.

It was at this time that the California Bank ring stepped in, and in high conclave and in secret session concluded that it was high time to break me up, for my efforts were about to be crowned with success, substitute themselves into my place, reap the fruits of my labors, and, by their influence over the politicians of this coast, obtain the aid of Congress which the legislature of Nevada had applied for.

This conclave was held in San Francisco on the 6th of June, 1867, the night before the annual election of trustees for the Crown Point mine ; and when that election took place, in which the former president of the company, A. H. Barker, and their superintendent, Batternian, were turned out, and the bank ring took possession, a subscription to the tunnel of $75,000, which had previously been agreed upon by most of the parties interested, was voted down.

I saw at a glance what was up. The bank, which up to that time had warmly supported me, had now turned against me, and I knew quite well that none of the subscriptions already made by the mining companies would be ratified at their stockholders' meetings. Nearly all the persons who had previously stood by me deserted me ; they shunned me on the streets and avoided me as if I had an infectious disease ; every miserable cur and hireling of that bank turned the cold shoulder on me— actually afraid their masters might be displeased at seeing them talk to me — and for the first time I commenced to feel and appreciate the immense, overwhelming, and ramified power that concern wields. Men knew, as if by magic, that the bank was now against me ; it seemed as if they all had been informed of it at once, and through some invisible power had received their instructions.

It became evident to me that the ring entertained the opinion that their combined efforts must soon crush me out and use me up financially, physically, and mentally, in such an unequal contest. But they had got hold of the wrong man ; I was not so easily to be disposed of. When I found that these traitors, after having signed contracts, after having urged and helped me on to expend mine and niy friends' money, after having induced me to labor almost day and night for several years, which I did with zeal and enthusiasm— I say when I found that they were determined to rob me of my labors, I made up my mind that they should not succeed in their efforts. I was determined that this base, unscrupulous, ami mercenary combination should not carry out its purposes, and made a sacred vow that I would carry out this work if I had to devote the whole balance of my life to it, and defend my rights as long as the breath of life was in me.

I soon found that I had no longer any chances on this coast ; I knew that my opponents could easily keep those connected with them, directly and indirectly, from having anything to do with the affair, and also knew full well that by throwing cold water on it, or by declaring it visionary or impracticable, they could prevent those not fully understanding its merits from entering into it, and those who did understand it by bullying and threatening them. And how eagerly did the empty-headed, the brainless, the ignorant, and the envious join in the chorus! this same class who have opposed every great work from time immemorial ! this same class who opposed railroads, and steamboats, and telegraphs, and sewing-machines! this same class who opposed and fought the Erie Canal! this same class Avho a few years ago would ask on every occasion .whether you expected to live long enough to see the Pacific Railroad completed !

The difficulties and obstacles seemed to increase and accumulate, and almost appeared insurmountable. How was I to convince people of the contrary, when the most successful men in the country told them not to touch the affair ? And how easy was it for them to play upon the prejudices of people when I asked them to invest their money ; how easy was it for them to throw out a hint that nobody had any confidence in me ?

They found no difficulty in getting the gas and water companies of Virginia City, and all the men under their influence, to tell people the town would be ruined ; that it would move down to the mouth of the tunnel ; that real estate would become valueless, with many other groundless objections. But did they tell you that without the tunnel the mines would be abandoned and ruin and desolation be brought not only on Virginia City, but upon the whole country ?

Fellow-citizens : Have you ever been in a position where your friends shunned you ? If you have, you know how wortityiug it is on meeting an old acquaintance to have him pass by pretending not to see you, instead of shaking you by the hand and welcoming you" Have you noticed them cross over on the other side of the street when, they saw you at a distance ? Have you seen their nervous hurry, trying to get off,

Sutro Tunnel. 55

when you happened to engage them in conversation ? You may possibly have made similar experiences if you were ever broke and your good friends were afraid you might ask them for a loan.

In my case some narrow-minded people may have avoided me, thinking I might iir^e them to become interested in the tunnel project, but these were comparatively few : the mass of these men knew the bank was against me, and that was sufficient lor these servile and timid creatures to insult and avoid me. But I looked upon them with contempt; I had the satisfaction of feeling in my own heart that I was working for a good and noble cause; I knew that the execution of the work I proposed would lie a blessing to the men compelled to toil in these mines, and of great and lasting beiieiit to a whole people. So I continued niy efforts, believing that truth is mighty and will prevail, and that in the end my enemies must come to grief, and victory should be mine!

I concluded to give up the field, for the time being, to my opponents, return to New York and go over to Europe if necessary, and see what could be accomplished there. In July, 1867, I arrived at the former place, but soon found that after my apparent failure to raise any funds in California, it was useless to waste my time there. Evidences that the war the Bank of California had commenced to wage against me on the Pacific coast should also extend to New York, came under iny observation. On the Ifith of July, the day after the Savage Company had held their annual meeting, a telegraphic message was received and a placard stuck up in the office of the agents of the Bank of California in New York, Messrs. Lees & Waller, which stated, in large letters, ''That the stockholders of the Savage Company, at their annual meeting, had refused to ratify the subscription made by their trustees of $150,000 to the stock of the Sutro Tunnel' Company, and that the same was utterly null and void."

This telegram was intended to caution the people of New York against me, in case I should falsely represent that the Savage Company had subscribed and ratified their subscription of $150,000. It was a sort of warning, as if sent ahead of an absconding bank clerk, or /order, or criminal, so that it would utterly ruin my prospects, and coming, as it did. from the leading financial concern of the Pacifio coast, it certainly had its effect— it put a damper on my prospects, and I determined to make no further attempt in New York at that time.

It almost appeared to me after this, that the only place where I could vindicate myself, and where the importance and magnitude of the proposed work would be properly appreciated, and where, at the same time, the bank would have the least power to misrepresent and fight me, would be in Congress. But Congress was not to meet until December, and this being the latter part of July, I determined upon spending the interval in Europe for the purpose of examining the mines, visiting their big tunnels, consulting some of their great engineers, in order to lay my experiences before Congress, at the same time paying close attention to the facilities which would exist in Europe for securing the required funds. I was supplied with letters of introduction from many of the bankers of San Francisco, which had been furnished me on my first journey east, among which was one from the Bank of California, signed by William C. Ralston, their cashier and chief manager, to the Oriental Bank Corporation of London, recommending me personally and the tunnel enterprise to their English friends as an excellent investment. This letter, however, I did not of course make use of, after what had transpired, and it remains in my possession now.

I traveled through Ireland, England, France, Belgium, Holland, Prussia, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Bavaria, Switzerland, and Italy, visited many of their mines, was received with great courtesy, and came in contact with many of the leading financial, political, and scientific men of Europe. I descended into their deepest mines— the deepest in the world — and after all my investigations became more and more convinced of two things : 1st, That mineral lodes, true fissure-veins, as shown by all experience, descend downward indefinitely ; and, 2d, That in order to work mines rationally and profitably, wherever the topography of the country allows it, great district or main tunnels, which serve as highways under the mountains, must be constructed.

I entered into correspondence and had personal interviews with such men as Von Cotta, the geologist ; Weissbach, the engineer ; Baron Von Beust, of Saxony ; Chevalier, the French senator and political economist ; Sir Roderick Murchisou, president of the London Geographical Society; John Stuart Mill, member of Parliament ; Von Dechens, the friend of Humboldt ; Baron Von Hingenau, chief of the mining department of Austria ; Burkhardt, Koch, and many others. I submitted my plans to these men, and they unanimously agreed upon the importance, feasibility, and magnificence of the undertaking and addressed to me many complimentary letters.

I found it impossible, however, to raise any funds in Europe for several reasons. In the first place, people there as a general thing have no confidence in our mining laws, as far as security of property is concerned ; secondly, they raised the same objection which was raised in New York, that our own people on the spot must first show their confidence by their subscriptions and by commencing work ; and, thirdly, at that particular time, if there had been no other obstacle in the way, the threatening

56

Sutro Tunnel.

attitude between France and Prussia would have prevented the consummation of any extensive financial operation abroad.

I found but one concern, the house of Erlanger & Co., the groat bankers of Paris who were willing to entertain the project at all; but after sending for one of their .London partners, they also concluded it to be impossible to carry out the affair at that T)inic*

So I returned again to the United States, and left Liverpool on the 1st of De-ember 1867, arriving at Washington just after Congress had met, I now commenced to go to work m good earnest; made the favorable acquaintance of nearly all the members of both Houses of Congress, and the leading men of the nation, and had aline prospect . or success.

It soon became known to the bank out here, through information derived from their spies in Washington, who kept close watch of my doings, that the chances of obtaining a loan from the Government were good, which made them feel quite uneasy and they immediately sent a number of telegrams to different persons in Washington, one of which reads as follows ;

"VIRGINIA, Nevada, January 15, 1868.

(Received at Willard's Hotel, Washington, D. C., January 16, 1888.) "To Hon. WM. M. STEWART and JAS. W. NYE :

"We are opposed to the Sutro Tunnel project, and desire it defeated if possible

" WM. SHARON, "CHARLES BONNER, "Superintendent Savage Company. " B. F. SHERWOOD,

"President Central Company. "JOHN B. WINTERS, "President Yellow Jacket Comnanu.

"JOHN P. JONES, "Superintendent Kentuck Company.

"J. W. MACKEY, "Superintendent Bullion Company.

" THOS. G. TAYLOR, "President Alpha, and Superintendent Crown Point.

"and Best and Belclier Companies. "F. A.TRITLE,

"President Belcher Company. " ISAAC L. REQUA, "Superintendent Chollar Potosi Company."

This telegram was meant to read as follows : " We are opposed to Sutro getting an appropriation for the Sutro Tunnel; defeat him if possible; that will use him up, and we, Win. Sharon & Co., will then step in and get it." As a matter of justice, I will here state that the superintendents who signed this document could not well have refused it, and I believe that some of them to-day are warm friends of the tunnel en-

««.» HJ.VJ , v,ity ajv—vu u.c*j u wv/ .LUUJ.O jLuirosa-^es ariiveu. ill VVUXlllU°TOn Sl°*lieOl Oy

a number of mining presidents of San Francisco, nearly all well-known tools and flunkeys of the bank, one of which was addressed to John Conness, whilom Senator from California, who, in his eagerness to serve his masters, did not hesitate to openly oppose me.

They took so deep an interest in my affairs that they expended over $100 in two days lor these telegraphic messages, while the information they contained could have been conveyed in a letter, more fully, at an expense of three cents.

These telegrams I paid but little attention to. The bank may be a big concern here • at Washington it amounts to but precious little. Whether our Senators were much influenced thereby is hard to tell. I asked no favors from them, an d started out to make my own nght.

About this time I published a book of about 250 pages, a copy of which I hold in my hand, containing much information about these mines and others ; about the interest Government should feel in the production of precious metals, and distributed 1000 copies among. the members of Congress, the leading men of the country, and the principal newspapers. By getting the book up in elegant style, Senators and congressmen kept it on their centre-tables, instead of condemning it to their paper baskets as is done with many of the ordinary documents sent to them, and if they did not read it at once themselves, their friends did, who, while waiting to get Federal appointments, had not much to do, and ultimately called their attention to it.

I can best give you an idea of the general argument used iii the work by reading to you its introductory, which is as follows :

" The development of the mineral resources of this country forms a subject of such

Sutro Tunnel. 57

grave importance, one involving considerations of a politico-economical nature of such Significant consequences, that it well behooves the American statesman, the patriot who has the future of this givat republic at heart, to devote some time to the earnest examination of those questions which have a vital bearing upon the future welfare of this country.

44 In the vast regions stretching from the Mississippi River to the broad Pacific Ocean, from the confines of Mexico to the icy regions of the North, there lie buried in the bowels of the earth incalculable treasures of the precious metals, which but await the industrious application of the hardy miner and the fostering care of a provident government to pour out a stream of gold and silver, which will so much increase the national wealth, augment the resources of the nation, and spread welfare and prosperity throughout the extent of this vast land, that the burdens of taxation will gradually disappear, and make the national debt sink into insignificance. If we contemplate that mighty interest, which can be made to create so many blessings, and find that it is neglected and declining from year to year, we must arrive at the firm conclusion that there is something radically wrong in our present system of mining, and that an immediate, practical and effectual remedy should be applied to rescue from a steady decline and eventual abandonment a source of wealth which must be considered the most fruitful and important one this nation possesses.

" If the facts presented in the following pages are carefully examined, three prominent conclusions will be arrived at :

"1st. That the main wealth of the mineral regions is contained in quartz lodes, the principal treasures of which are found at great depths beneath the surface.

" 2d. That the present mode of mining downwards from the surface is detrimental to the prosperity of the mining interests.

" 3d. That a system of deep tunneling should be inaugurated, which will make mining profitable by giving a natural outlet to the flow of water, by ventilating the mines, by cooling the atmosphere, and by facilitating the extraction of ore.

"Mining requires capital, which the western regions do not possess; the Eastern States have an abundance, but not for investment in mining enterprises, which are looked upon with suspicion and are almost considered disreputable.

" Some years ago many persons were found quite willing to embark in mining ventures, and considerable sums were invested ; but the experiences made have been, disastrous and ruinous to those concerned, in almost every instance. This result has been charged to various causes, but the true one must be sought in the unwise, extravagant, and wasteful manner in which the work on the mines has been performed.

" The construction of deep tunnels, which by all authorities are admitted to be absolutely necessary to make mining operations successful, requires time, and Jhe outlay of large amounts of capital, and consequently implicit confidence in the permanency of the mines.

"It is the lack of confidence in the permanency of the mines (their downward extent to great depth not having practically been demonstrated in the United States) •which prevents the execution of such works.

" The Comstock lode, the most productive of all mineral lodes in the world, producing as much silver as the whole republic of Mexico, presents the most extraordinary example, illustrating the ruinous and wasteful manner of our present system of mining. We have a lode here which has produced within the last six years over $75,000,000, and the whole of that enormous sum has been swallowed up by the expenses of producing it. The mines upon this lode have now reached such a depth that, after a few years, they must inevitably be abandoned, provided a deep tunnel be not constructed.

"Great mineral lodes, true fissure-veins, according to experiences made in older countries, extend downward indefinitely ; we have the testimony of some of the first scientific men living, that the Comstock lode bears the strongest evidence of being a true iissure-veiu.

" Here, then, we have a remarkable state of affairs ; a lode yielding $16,000,000 per annum, almost the whole amount being absorbed by the expenses of producing it, while the construction of a deep tunnel, for which extraordinary facilities exist, would leave a large portion of that amount as a profit ; the downward continuance of the lode is theoretically, at the same time conclusively, proven, and still we find that capitalists cannot be found to undertake the construction of a deep tunnel, because the ores at great depth are not actually visible.

"Were that tunnel completed to-day, a glorious reality, pouring out a silver stream of $40,000,000 or $50,000,000 per annum, these same capitalists, who first want to eye the riches way down in the earth before they consent to invest, would be eager to enter into similar undertakings in all parts of the mining regions, and tunneling would become the order of the day. The nation would be enriched beyond all expectation, and the benefits to the Government and the people would be incalculable. " That it is both the duty and the interest of the Government to aid in the construction

of one such tunnel to serve as an index-work, and thereby establish the continuance of mineral lodes in depth, cannot admit of any doubt.

" The most favorable qpportunity for such a demonstration presents itself in the construction of the proposed tunnel to the Comstock lode; the Government may consistently extend its credit to that work, for almost no risk is involved, the security offered being a hundred-fold. A simple investigation of the subject Will prove this conclusively.

" Some thirty years ago a similar question arose in Saxony, when Baron von Herder, then chief of the mining department, as an introductory to a book on the subject, addressed his countrymen in the following words :

" ' To the friends of their country do I dedicate the plan of a mining work, the execution of which is of the highest importance to the mining interests of Saxony.

" ' It is the plan to drive a deep tunnel from the level of the Elbe, near Meissen, to the neighborhood of Freiberg, 'in order to drain the water from the mines of that district to a much greater depth than heretofore, and by means thereof to secure their existence for centuries to come ; a plan which as to magnitude, time and cost, is large and gigantic, but which appears in its effects and results so benevolent and full of blessings, that the question as to cost should not form an obstacle to its execution.

" 'It is true that the resources of the mining treasury of the Freiberg district are too limited to bear these expenses ; but the execution of a work which in times to come will be classed in the list of those great national monuments which have for their object the lasting welfare of a country, and which will secure the same for the latest generations and times, cannot be left to the mercy of a single mining district, but should be looked upon as a work creating happiness and glory, and worthy of the participation and promotion of the entire nation.

" 'With unlimited confidence do I therefore present to the friends of their country the following explanation and statement of this project.

"'May they extend to it a wise and sympathizing examination and magnanimous consideration, and may they be assured of the fervent thanks which posterity will grant them.'

"The mines of Saxony produced, and now produce, but a mite of what our mines do ; the national debt of that country is but small, and the burdens of taxation are not of an onerous character.

" How much stronger, then, should the argument be in the case at issue ! A country containing more mines and richer mines than all the balance of the world combined ; a country having a national debt amounting to over $2,500,000,000, and a people crying out and groaning under unequaled burdens of taxation !

" Wisdom and foresight point out but one course ; let the mineral resources of the country go to ruin, and the national debt, the burdens of taxation, and general suffering will be increased from year to year.

"Let our immense mineral resources be developed, an increase in the value of all property, a relief of the burdens of taxation, unparalleled advancement of commerce, industry and traffic, a bright future, speedy resumption of specie payments, and general welfare and prosperity will be the results.

" Those who rule the destinies of this country have the solution of this question in their hands ; wisdom, foresight, liberality, and true patriotism will grasp the issue, and promptly secure those results which will immensely benefit our present generation, and extend its blessings to posterity."

The Committee on Mines and Mining, fully appreciating the impetus which would be given to the development of our great mineral resources by the construction of this tunnel, after a most thorough investigation, perfected a bill recommending a loan of $5,000.000, in twenty-years seven-per-cent. bonds, to be delivered at the rate of $15,000 for every 100 feet of tunnel completed. To show how thoroughly this committee understood the importance of the proposed work, I will here give an extract from their official report, published by order of the House of Representatives, in which they say :

'• Your committee considers the execution of one great mining work, such as the proposed tunnel to the Comstock lode, as conducive to the most beneficial results ; it would practically demonstrate the continuance of mineral lodes in depth, thereby establishing confidence in the execution of similar Avorks in all the mining districts.

" Writers on mining agree on the importance of general drain-tunnels, and the best proof of their utility is shown by tho fact that in those mining districts where a gen oral and extensive system of drainage by tunnels has been adopted, the mines have been kept in a flourishing condition during hundreds of years, while in those places where no tunnels have been made, mining operations have proved unprofitable, and the mines have been abandoned.

" We find in all mining codes provisions for the construction of tunnels ; they were, in olden times, called i the keys of the mountains,' and under the laws of Spain, Belgium, Prussia, Austria, Hungary, Saxony, Hanover, and other countries, compulsory payments toward the support of drain-tunnels were exacted from the mine owners, in order to keep up the mining districts.

Sutro Tuxnel. 59

"Gamboa, the great expounder of Spanish mining law, in. speaking of the neglect of the justices to enforce the construction of tunnels, says:

" ' By indulging in this neglect of their duty they do injustice to the public, to individuals, and to the rights of the Sovereign, who has made it a law that the working of

the mines shall* bo assisted by means of tunnels, as being works of great importance

and necessary

ssarv forgiving a permanent character to this valuable description of property.'

" General ^rain-tunnels are important in many regards; they not only provide the cheapest and safest means of drainage, ventilation, extraction and discovery of ore, but they accomplish the great and very important result of consolidating the different interest in a mining district, by establishing one general base of operations.

•• As mines are worked now, the proprietors or companies, on a mineral lode — no matter how limited the extent of the claims — each, independently of their neighbors, erect a steam-engine, pump the water from their mines, hoist the ore, and transport it to the reduction works; they boast of independent organizations, presidents, boards of trustees, superintendents, secretaries, &c., kept up at an enormous expense, which makes mining unprofitable and a losing business.

" In large cities we iind it necessary to establish a joint system of drainage, gas and water works. Main sewers are constructed, into which small branches enter from every building. Supposing each house-owner were to provide his own drainage, independent of his neighbors, establish his own gas manufactory, and dig a canal of his own from a distant spring, in order to get a supply of water, the world would pronounce such proceeding very unwise and foolish.

'; And still we find a similar state of affairs in our great mineral districts; a contiguous row of mines on the same lode, each worked independently and entirely regardless of its neighbors, while one general tunnel, or adit, or drain, would allow the water to run off by its natural flow to the lowest level, from all the mines, through one common outlet* thereby abolishing at once all pumping-machinery, giving one common railroad for the transportation of all the ore, and creating innumerable advantages. Only one general mining administration would be required, operations could be carried on jointly and systematically, the extraction of ore largely increased, the health of the miners secured by good ventilation, and large sums of money would be saved, thereby making it possible to extract immense bodies of low-grade ores.

"In short, instead of an unwise, short-sighted, ruinous, and stupid manner of proceeding, we would inaugurate a rational system of mining, a system which would make it profitable, attract the capital which is absolutely necessary for the development of this branch of industry, increase the production of the precious metals beyond all expectations, populate the vast extent of our mineral regions, procure traffic for our trans-continental railways, stimulate the commerce and industry of our whole nation, firmly establish our credit by proving the extent of our mineral wealth, and, above all, relieve the burdens of taxation by increasing the value of all property.

''Such are some of the advantages which, in our opinion, would be derived from the adoption of a general system of tunneling in our great mining districts; and it must appear remarkable that such tunnels, their advantages being so self-evident, have not already been constructed in numerous places."

The measure grew more and more popular, in spite of the secret efforts of the California Bank, and would, no doubt, have passed with a three-quarter vote of the House, had it been possible to reach the Committee on Mines and Mining in the regular order of business.

Unfortunately, when we were almost within reach of the bill, the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson commenced, and before its weary length was terminated, it was so late in the session that our committee never was reached at all, and consequently the tunnel bill had to go over.

Congress adjourned late in July last year, and I returned to California somewhat disgusted with my ill luck, but never for a moment losing my confidence in ultimate success. Before I left Washington many letters were addressed to me by members of Congress, expressing their regret at my 'bill not having been reached, and giving it as their opinion that at the next session it would certainly pass. Among these was one from Thaddeus Stevens, one of the very best friends the measure had, who stated that at the next session he would warmly support it ; but the old man did not live to see another session ; he died within a fortnight.

After spending a few weeks at New York I returned again to California, from whence, after remaining a couple of mouths, I once more proceeded to Washington to renew my efforts.

In the mean time General Grant had been elected President of the United States, and the misunderstanding which existed between him and Andrew Johnson prevented any special legislation, which, as was stated, might embarrass the former's administration. BO Congress concluded to enter into no legislation whatever, with the exception of the passage of some appropriation bills necessary for the support of the Government, and thus the Fortieth Congress expired without acting on my bill.

The new Congress convened on the 4th of March last, under good auspices, and

General Grant, in bis inaugural, referring to the payment of the national debt, alludes to the importance of developing our vast mineral resources, and speaks of the treasure-chest which Providence has provided us, buried in our western mountains, lor which we must forge the key now to unlock. After a short session of a few weeks Congress adjourned until next December, when, for the first time, I expected to get a fair chance to bring my bill up and have it thoroughly discussed.

I have but little doubt but that, notwithstanding the great efforts the California Bank will make to control the action of both our Senators, they will firmly stand by ihe people, and use all their influence for the accomplishment of this great work.

In the mean time I have come out here among you, my fellow-citizens, in order to explain to you all about this tunnel business, and while some of the moneyed men of San Francisco look upon the whole thing as a failure, not knowing anything of its history, nor of the great fight of the California Bank ring against it, and which erroneous opinions also many of you entertained, I have more confidence in its success now than ever.

Fellow-citizens, I have come among you to propose to the working people of Nevada to join in together in order to start work on the tunnel itself, and thereby give me that solid indorsement, at home, from those who live on the very spot, from the men who work in these very mines, and who are supposed to know most about it, which I have lately sought in vain from the mining companies and from the people which should be most deeply interested. Your solid indorsement will be valued highly at Washington ; it will annihilate the efforts of that scheming combination, the California Bank.

Fellow-citizens, it must now be evident to you that the arch enemy of this great work is that hydra-headed monster you have reared in your midst, and allowed to grow into gigantic proportions ; that enemy of that welfare of the whole Pacific coast ; that incubus npon your prosperity ; that crafty concern which resorts to every means to carry out its ends. And why do they oppose the tunnel ? Why do they all in their power of cunning and scheming and planning to defeat it ? Why are all their satellites and hirelings told they must defeat and oppose the tunnel project with all their might and power, by fair and by foul means? Why do they threaten to discharge their employes if they take a hand in it ? And why are they compelled to do all this in the darkness of night ? Why is it they dare not make their motives known ?

Fellow-citizens, let me enlighten you. Allow me to pierce that darkness and let in a ray of day-light ; let me explain to you why these men so bitterly oppose a work which in"theni, the ostensible owners of the Conistock lode, should find the strongest advocates ; let them show to you why they have turned to be the guardians of the Treasury at Washington ; let them tell you why they tremble with fear lest work on the tunnel be started ; let me explain to you why they make you work in a foul atmosphere, which sends half of you to your graves in the prime of manhood ; let me show you why they have allowed forty-two of your miners to be foully murdered at the fire of the Gold Hill mines for the want of an exit through the tunnel ; and let me show them to you in their true colors, and then hold them up to the shame, contempt, and ignominy they so richly deserve.

In order to do so I must enter into the details of some of the operations of this clique which rules and controls these mines, and apparently are the absolute owners of a controlling interest in this vast and important property.

Many of you will be utterly astonished to learn that neither the bank nor the mill ring, as a general thing, own more than a few shares in each mine — just about enough to be elected trustees of the companies, while you, the miners and residents of Virginia City, do always own a large amount of stock, and sometimes a controlling interest, in'mauy of the mines. I do not wish to say that the bank ring has not at different times owned large amounts of stock for a number of months, but that was only in such mines as the Savage and Keutuck, for instance, during the years 1867 and 1868, as wrere then in a magnificent condition, and paying large and regular dividends. But you will say, How is it possible that they can control the elections, put in men of their own ring as trustees, and manage and manipulate these mines as they please, to further their own ends, if they do not own any stock ?

That is precisely where the secret lies, and where the public gets gulled and swindled and humbugged, and allows this clique, by sharp practice, to carry out its nefarious schemes.

You all know that there is an institution in San Francisco called the Bank of California; they have a branch house in Virginia City, over which William Sharon presides. The'principle upon which this concern is carried on is to get deposits from as many people, and in as large amounts, and from as many quarters as possible ; that is where their power lies ! Their capital stock is $5,000,000, with which they do a business of many millions more. They loan out a great deal of money ; whether they loan out any of their depositors' money we don't know; but "they loan out a great deal ; they loan a great deal to their individual members, who are engaged in extensive speculations ; some of them pay, but a great many do not ; that money is scattered all over creation, and whether it is probable that they could pay all they owe, should they be called upon, I doubt very iimeh. Money in a good iron safe, or

Sutro Tunnel. 61

deposited in some of the solid banks of San Francisco, might be a great deal securer. I shall, however, revert to this more in detail on some future occasion.

Among other things, they loan money on mining stocks. The Virginia agent keeps the San Francisco bank well posted on the value of each particular mine, and on the special manipulation going on in it ; daily 1»-lcgrams and letters are sent on the reports of special experts kept for that purpose. This information, which is withheld with the utmost secrecy from the public, enables the San Francisco concern to advance money on stocks, and to brokers, without much risk, while no other bank or moneyed institution dare touch it. Now let us see how this operates ; all men who deal in these stocks are more or less of a gambling disposition ; they put in a little money and want to make a great deal ; they almost always go beyond their means ; they buy a certain number of shares, carry them to their broker, or to the Bank of California, borrow as much money as tliey can get loaned on them, in order to enable them to buy more, and are compelled to transfer their shares— not to the bank, for that would make it responsible for any debts which might be contracted by the mining companies, but to one of their irresponsible clerks, A. E. Hill, for instance, whose name figures quite extensively in the delinquent lists, and whose name only stands for that of so many miners or other individuals. Thus that bank clerk has a large amount of stock standing in his name, without owning a share, and no outsider knows whose stock it is. This is one way the bank obtains control of a large amount of stock both at San Francisco and at Virginia; but by far the greatest part comes under their control in a still easier way. Most of you miners and others who speculate in stocks go to a broker, deposit your money and get him to telegraph to his partner in San Francisco for a given number of shares in a certain mine ; the purchaser here never sees that stock ; it is issued in the name of the broker, for to issue it in the name of the purchaser causes delay, inconvenience, and expense. Many of these brokers receive accommodations from the bank, and are consequently under obligations to them ; many others are simply convenient stool-pigeons in the hands of the bank ring. Now what is the result of all this ? When the annual election comes oft' in a mining company the managers of the bank hold a sufficient amount of stock in their hands as collaterals, together with the proxies thsy obtain from brokers, who represent the miners and others, so that they can almost invariably step in to an election and cast this vote for a set of trustees which have j>reviouwsly been made up in the back office of the California Bank. And who are these trustees ? About a dozen of them compose the trustees in nearly all the mining companies, and a majority in each company are either under the thumb of or mere tools of the bank, and if you were to examine the books you would find that most of them do not own more than three or four shares apiece. And these few miserable shares even do they not in many instances own at all, but they are simply loaned them, and transferred to their names so they may act as trustees. Those are the men whom you allow to manage your property. In order to throw sand into people's eyes, one or two trustees are usually elected who bear a high reputation for integrity ; and so adroitly are the atFairs of most of these companies managed between the majority of the trustees, the president of the company and the superintendent, that the minority of the board often do not suspect even that anything is wrong, and thus lend their names to the most nefarious schemes for entrapping the public.

In some instances the bank ring cannot obtain sufficient stock in the manner indicated, and then they are compelled, although reluctantly, to purchase a sufficient amount temporarily to make up a majority until after the election. To show how much value is placed in getting the management of a mine, considering that the trustees receive no salary, you need only look back to the election of the Hale & Norcross a little over a year ago, when the bank ring paid as high as $16,000 per foot, while the true value of the stock was less than $2,000.

In this manner the ring, without owning a share of stock, or but very little, obtain the management of these mines and become your masters, while you are, to a large extent, the owners of the property. They become the absolute tyrants who rule over you, and threaten to ^discharge you if you do not dance according to the tune they fiddle. They arrogate to themselves the power and dictate to you, the proprietors of these mines, what shall be done ; they regulate the amount of your wages ; employ and discharge you as they see fit, and even threaten to turn you all out and employ Chinese in your stead. Of course, they lose no opportunity and embrace every occasion to impress you with the pretended fact that they own a very large amount of stock in all these mines. Go and examine the books, convince yourselves, and then wonder how such unblushing falsehood, based on brass and impudence, could have existed so long and not be exposed.

Now let us see how their control of the mines further operates : there is a concern called the Union Mill and Mining Company, supposed to be composed of just about the same men as control the California Bank'and the mining companies. At the head of that concern, at Virginia City, is the agent of the California Bank. Somehow or other this mill association has gobbled up all the valuable mills in the neighborhood, and, as is stated, by paying but a very small portion of the cost of them. Most of

these mills were erected by private individuals, depending on a supply of ore from the companies on the Coinstock lode. As indicated above, the bank ring obtained control of nearly all the mines; it was, therefore, an easy matter for them to furnish such mills only with rock as they saw fit. In this manner some mills, especially those whose financial affairs were not very sound, could get no supply of ore. In trying to keep running on small supplies from outside mines, and here and then) on temporary supplies from the Comstock lode, which was furnished them in order to varnish over the manipulation then progressing, their mills would stand idle a portion of the time, which involved them into debt. They had to borrow money from the California Bank, the only moneyed institution at Virginia City, which had a policy of being remarkably accommodating in such instances. The poor victim taking that money signed his death warrant. As soon as he became thus indebted he could somehow or the other obtain no more ore for his mill at all ; he could not pay the interest on his indebtedness ; and after a few months the mortgage on his property costing, say $100,000, would be foreclosed for about $20,000, utterly ruining him.

In this wise the mill ring or bank became possessed of nearly all the valuable mills in the neighborhood, costing millions of dollars, at a comparatively trifling cost to them.

Now, mark the result. The same ring is managing the bank, the mills, and the mines, but own but precious little interest in the latter. Of course they are sure to make all the money out of the mills, even at the expense of the mines. 'Mills with a capacity of 1,000 tons per day must be kept supplied at all hazands. The price of crushing is fixed at $13 per ton, by the mutual agreement of the same crowd ; this leaves a profit of $7 per ton, or $7,000 per day. If a mine does not furnish rich ore, poor is sent to the mills, for they must be kept going. If that runs the mine in debt, how easy is it to put on an assessment, and make you, the stockholders, pay the loss, or, in other words, turn over the amount thus collected into the pockets of the mill association. If a mine has some rich ore, but only a limited quantity, how easy is it to intermix a sufficient quantity of bed-rock in order to increase the number of tons to be worked. It is asserted, and can be substantiated by many credible witnesses, that thousands of tons of ore have gone to the mills which 'paid as low as $5 per ton, while it costs $20 per ton to mill and mine it, thus taking $15,000 out of your pockets for every 1,000 tons worked ; that is to say, in twenty-four hours.

But this is not all. There is still another way by which you are victimized. Supposing the superintendent and foreman of a 'mine are pliable tools in the hands of these cormorants, how easy is it when a rich body of ore is discovered to keep it secret, and instead of taking it out start the miners going in a wrong direction, taking out inferior ore or bed-rock, sending it to the mills, involving the mine in debt, necessitating assessments, and thus depreciating the stock. And how simple is it for the ring to gobble it all up again quietly while it is down, and after a large amount of it is secured to set all the men to work that can find room and take oat the good ore, make a great noise over it, declare large dividends, send up the stock, and then quietly step out and pocket a million or so.

How many of you have been bitten in this manner ? What show have you when the cards are stocked on you ? Have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse ? It lets it run a little piece and then catches it again, and repeats the experiment a number of times, to its great delight and amusement ; but did you ever know it to fail that the cat ate up the mouse in the long run ?

A few of you make a good strike once in a while by sheer accident ; that keeps up the excitement, and so you keep all gambling in stocks, pay your assessments, and in the end you will all be eaten up like the poor mouse. There is no guess-work about it ; it is a sure thing.

There is still another item connected with these mines which is worth while looking after. The parties managing them of course have control of the funds of these concerns, and the handling of a million of dollars or more, year in and year out, is an item not to be despised. If the ring is hard up, as the case is now, why it is an easy matter to slap on an assessment of a quarter of a million or so, and thus make the people come to the rescue of their empty cash-box.

These great financiers who have undertaken to regulate the money affairs of this coast, with all their scheming, and notwithstanding the immense sums they have filched out of the people, have arrived at a point where bankruptcy stares them in the face. The California Bank, with a capital of $5,000,000 and a surplus of $2,000,000. cannot loan out a dollar to any one at the present time. What have they done with all this money ? Where is it ? If they are solvent why can't they accommodate the public now when it is most needed ? They have kept out greenbacks in order to prevent eastern capital from coming here, and now reap the fruits of their folly. While they have ruined themselves, they have brought untold hardships unto this people in the present crisis. Their last bearing operation has recoiled upon themselves; stocks and all property have gone down beyond their control, for they did not have the sagacity to forsee that the bubble which had been growing for the last six years, in anticipation

Suteo Tunnel. 63

of the Pacific Railroad being finished, would burst in the act of driving the last spike. They fondly hoped that eastern people would Hock out here with full money-bags and invest at the inflated prices. They did come, and saw at a glance the game which was put up for them, and declared they would come back in another year and invest iit twenty mils on the dollar, when they were all broke out here. So much for their financial capacity.

But the ring, not yet satisfied with all these manipulations, and with an unsatiated desire to draw the very last drop of life-blood from the people, has lately entered into another selieme of pilfer. I refer to the Virginia and Truckeo Railroad. Not satisfied with contvoling the mines ; not satisfied with owning the mills ; not satisfied with all the plunder obtained before, they came to the conclusion that a railroad to the Carson River, where their mills are mostly located, would be a good thing. They not only thought that by owning such 'a road they could drive all the teamsters out of the country, and thus squeeze two or three dollars additional out of every ton of ore transported over their road, but they also expected to monopolize all the wood and timber trade, and charge whatever price they please to the mining companies. But while they were accomplishing all this, and opening up a new source for plunder, their great motive for getting up this railroad scheme was that they expected thereby to kill the tunnel project, at least for some time to come. Of course they could not pretend that a railroad to Carson River would drain or ventilate the mines, or abolish the steam-engines, or explore the whole country, but they did falsely pretend that all the low-grade ores could be extracted, and with the increased facilities for transportation, reduced to advantage. If they did not expect to make people altogether believe that the railroad would be a substitute for the tunnel, they did at least expect that this threatening tunnel question would be postponed thereby for another year or two, with so much additional chance of seeing mo used up by that time.

But to build a railroad costs money ; and being accustomed to obtain whatever their heart desires from the people, they concluded to own a railroad and have the dear people pay for it.

Being the trustees of the mining companies, it was an easy matter to subscribe to themselves such amounts as the stockholders would possibly stand — some of the mines levying assessments in order to raise the money. Thus, about $500,000 were coutributed, for which the trustees, before long, will bo held responsible, as an act on their part entirely unwarranted and illegal. But this amount was not sufficient to build the road, so it was concluded to get the legislature to come to the rescue. Bills were passed — God only knows how — and Storey, Ormsby, and Lyon Counties were compelled to give and make a present to the ring of bonds amounting to $575,000. The people were misled, in the first instance, by the false title of the Virginia and Truckee Railroad, and in their anxiety to obtain a connection with the Central Pacific, which lies north of Virginia City, they overlooked that the bill passed by the legislature was for a road to Carson River, in the opposite direction. Was there ever such a. swindle perpetrated before on any people ? Every man and woman in these three counties compelled to contribute their hard earnings to meet the interest and principal, amounting to over a million of dollars, and which will ultimately swallow up all your private property, for bonds issued to a railroad which will not be one particle of benefit to the people, but only to a clique of men, the self-constituted rulers of the people. But whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. That railroad business was too much for the people ; it has opened their eyes, and the remedy will be found ; they will assert their rights and throw off the yoke of their oppressors.

Steps should immediately be taken to prevent the issuance of these bonds ; the law is clearly unconstitutional, and no court in this State will dare to sustain it. If the legislature had the right to compel you to give away $300,000, why, they would have the same right to compel you to give $3,000,000 ; they would have the same right to take all you possess. The thing is too absurd to require any argument. Stop the payment of these bonds, and you compel the ring to finish the railroad from their own means, if they have any; then start the tunnel going and you will break them up altogether, for they will not bo able to sell out their railroad stock, as they expected to do by next spring, by running immense quantities of low-grade ores down to the mills, and thus make a big showing as to the profits of the road ; in making that showing they expected you to foot the bills, by paying assessments to make up the loss sustained in working the rock, which must run the mines in debt.

Fellow-citizens, do you commence to understand why this ring oppose the construction of the tunnel? They have thus far had things their o*vn way and have with a high hand grasped and taken everything worth having in the State of Nevada ; they, like the devil-fish, have reached out their long, si i in. y anas and taken hold of everything within reach, and nothing can escape its deadly grip. Do you think for a moment that they would allow so valuable a property as that of Hie Sutro Ttumel Company to escape their notice f Do you suppose that this clique, whose ideas of mine and thine are very confused, would not go to every exertion to obtain so great a prize by intrigue, machinations, and scheming? Do you suppose they would allow a superior

power to spring up in their very stronghold, and not make every effort to destroy it? And do you believe that they would allow it to grow at all, but that they would nip it in the very bud ?

The tunnel, they know full well, is the key to this mountain and these mines, and •will and must control and own this whole district ; if that tunnel is constructed by third parties, their monopoly will be utterly broken up and ended. They could then no longer bull and bear stock, manipulate the mines and mills, and their railroad would be of but little use.

Now, what course have they pursued to defeat the construction of the tunnel ? Have they opposed it openly ? By no means. They considered that the projector, with limited means, not being able to cope long against so gigantic a monopoly, would soon succumb, and, worried and defeated, would be compelled to turn over his valuable franchises and property into their hands, together with the chances for an appropriation from Congress, which they expected to obtain through their political friends without much trouble.

They have, however, this time been mistaken ; they expected me to give up in disgust in less than six months after their relentless warfare commenced, and I have successfully stood up against that overwhelming power for several years, and have not been quite crushed out yet.

Will the people of Nevada see me crushed out now ? Will they allow thatmonstrous combination to trample me under their feet ? Will a chivalrous people allow one individual to be set upon by a whole pack of hounds ? Will you see fair play when one man has the pluck to stand up against a crowd ? Will you come to the rescue \vhen I appeal to you, in my endeavors to carry out a great and good work? I believe I need not make the appeal, for I know you will.

Laboring men of Nevada, shake off the yoke of slavery and assert your manhood. The same power which has thus far defeated the tunnel project is crushing you down into the dust; they threaten to take your bread and butter from you if you subscribe to the tunnel stock ; but you must act jointly, and there lies your power. If you will all corne in together, they dare not discharge you ; let three thousand laboring men pay in an average of $10 per month, which gives you $30,000 per month, or $360,000 per annum, and insures the construction of the tunnel, carrying with it the control of the mines. That amounts to 33 cents per day. Who is there among you so poor as to miss it ? How many of you expend that much every day in stimulants, cigars, and other luxuries ? Put that money into the tunnel ; it is laying up something for a rainy day. The money will be expended directly again in labor among yourselves under your own direction, and from dependents you wilfbecome masters. It will be the most glorious triumph of labor over capital. It would be realizing the wildest dreams of the French socialists, Proudhon, Le Blanc, and others, who have in vain tried in Europe to bring about just such results. The masses there do not possess the intelligence you do, nor was t^here ever such a chance offered to the people. Show your superiority here and act promptly. Set an example to the world, demonstrating what can be done by joint action. Do not listen to your enemies. They have vile, miserable runners among you who will try to poison your miuds ; they will try every means in their power to prevent you from entering into so magnificent a project, which will make you masters of the situation and leave your opponents out in the cold. They will argue with you and declare it not feasible; they will pronounce the whole scheme chimerical; they will tell you that you are wasting your money and that it will be misapplied; they will say to you that the whole thing is a swindle.

Workiugmen of Nevada, men who talk to you *in that way are hired by the Bank of California. They are traitors in your ranks. They are your base enemies, who have sold their honor and want to sell yours for so many dollars and cents. There may be some among you who do not fully understand the results which will flow from the work ; let the most intelligent ones make it their duty to enlighten them.

Laboring men of Nevada, crush out that hydra-headed monster, that serpent in your midst — the Bank of California. By forming this great co-operative association labor and capital will be linked together. Your power will be unlimited. No more hireling politicians will be thrust upon you in order to misrepresent your interests; you will be a great political power, and will rule the destinies of this State ; everybody will bow down to you ; you will be the masters of the land ; the newspapers will advocate your cause ; and from a state of utter dependency, from a state in which you are fearful from day to day to lose the means of your very subsistence, you will pass over, for the first time, into a true state of independence.

Fellow-citizens, were there a foreign enemy at your doors, who had come to crush out your liberties, break up your government, and. with a high hand rule over you, who is there among you who would not sacrice his life, his fortune, and pledge himself upon his sacred honor TO crush out and defeat so vile an enemy f Who is there coward enough to stand back and not defend his home and hearth? None, I dare say.

And still that enemy is in your midst. You allow and have allowed him to exist among you until he has gradually stolen your liberties, robbed you of your fortunes,

Sutro Tunnel. 65

and prevented the administration of justice. Trifling were the encroachments committed by England upon her American colonies when they rose up in their might, threw off the yoke, and formed these United States, compared to the indignities which arc daily heaped upon you. What has become of justice ? What protection have you any longer in the possession of your property? The enemy who has spun his web •round you until you are almost helpless, has bribed your judges, packed your juries, hired false witnesses, bought legislatures, elected representatives to defend their iniquity, imposed taxes upon you for their private benefit, outraged common decency, and now dare you to expose or oppose them. Has it come to pass that a free community of this great American nation has degenerated into a set of miserable cowards? 1 believe not; the enemy has stolen in among you stealthily and gradually; he has enslaved you without, your knowledge ; he has crept in while you are asleep.

Rouse up, then, fellow-citizens. You have no Andrew Jackson among you to crush out the bank which has taken your liberties) but you have the power within yourselves. I do not mean to incite you to any violence ; I do not mean to have you assert your rights by riot, force, and threats. That would be unwise, unnecessary, and would only recoil u'pon yourselves. But I do mean to say that you can destroy your enemy by simple concert of action. Let all of you join in together to build the Sutro Tunnel ; that is the way to reach them. They do already tremble lest you will act ; they know-yon will form a great moneyed power, and that you will own the mines; they know it will cement you together.

They also know full well that the first pick struck into the Sutro Tunnel will be the first pick into their graves ; and they also know that the same stroke of that first pick will be the signal for a new era, which will dawn upon the working people of Nevada.

Fellow-citizens, you are poor and cannot squander any money ; the vampires have nearly sucked you dry ; but the tunnel stock is a good investment ; the shares are un-assessable forever, so as to protect the poor men ; one share is as secure as a thousand. The tunnel company owns a princely domain ; thousands of lots will be sold in the new town ; we own the most valuable mining £rant in the whole world ; all the mining companies are compelled to pay tribute, amounting to millions of dollars per annum. In buying a share in the concern you absolutely own it ; nobody can ever assess you one cent ; you own your share in all the property the company now has or will ever possess ; you will own your share in any appropriations the Government will ever make. Some of you will say you are not going to stay long in the country. That makes no difference; it is a good investment, no matter what part of the world you are in; you pay $5 and get an interest, or a share of $10 in the company. When the tunnel is once finished, and probably long before, the company's income will be immense ; it will probably declare dividends sufficient to pay for your investment every year. A few thousand dollars invested in the tunnel stock now may give you an income to support you the balance of your life ; it is not, like most mining enterprises, of a temporary character ; it is a work which comprises a whole district ; all mines have to pay their pro rata; if one mine runs out of ore, another one will make a new strike ; and so yqu may expect a steady income from your investment during your lifetime, and probably that of your children.

The stock is not transferable for the present ; that is necessary to keep the bank of California from controlling it ; that is necessary for your own security; I would not advise you to invest in it were it otherwise, for it would be beyond my power to see you protected. If the requisite capital is once obtained, and the company incorporates, then the stock will be made transferable ; it will then be beyond the power of any moneyed institution on this coast to injure us.

The stock or receipt you get is signed by me as agent for the Sutro Tunnel Company, under special powers derived from all the trustees of the asociation ; besides the title to our laud, and mining grants, and other privileges, was made by Congress to me individually, in trust for all concerned, for the purpose of facilitating the transfer of all or any part of our property. Any document, therefore^ signed by me will convey to you a full and clear and unincunibered title to the interest you obtain, which can never be assessed.

I am satisfied that three thousand, nay, five thousand men can be found in western Nevada to save up ten dollars per month for investment in the tunnel ; then you have the eastern part of this State and the State of California. You have the whole Pacific coast, and, if necessary, the Atlantic States, to come to your assistance.

But one waits for another to see whether a sufficient number will come in. That will not do ; you will never accomplish anything in that manner.

It is true, nobody proposes to enter into bonds. If old Comstock had waited for somebody to sign bonds before he put his pick into the ground, he would be waiting yet. If you refuse to educate and clothe the boy until you see whether he is going to grow up, he will not be fit for much when he is a man. If you do not prospect a mine until you have made a fortune out of it ; if you will not go into the water until you learn to swim ; if you will not take the first step until you are within sight of the end of your journey, this life would be a very short horse and soon curried. Fancy the

S. Ex. 15 5

G6 SUTItO TUNNEL.

tunnel clone, a glorious fact, and see how small all such objections -will look. If there is a motive to begin the inniiel, how much greater is it to finish it. The whole, secret lies in starting it going. Get the sharp end of your wedge fairly inserted, then drive away, and every blow will tell.

Come forward, then, and subscribe your names; pay in your money promptly. If yon can spare but $5 this month, go up to the office and put it in. Some of you will put in $100. We have sufficient money in the treasury now to commence work within a few days. Come at once, then, and you will prove your friendship for the cause.

If my individual efforts have been sufficient to induce many of you to come in, how much greater will be our influence and strength when several hundreds, or even thousands, are interested. How much greater will be our influence at Washington, and how much greater the chance of obtaining the subsidy asked for.

Do you have any fear the work will ever stop again after it once starts? I have roro 'myself. When that tunnel is daily progressing, with chances of striking rich veins at any hour, everybody will want to invest ; everybody will then bf3 the friend of the enterprise. When people see it is going to go, they will all say they knew it would. You will no longer be able to find any one who ever opposed it ; the newspapers will all come out for it ; the excitement will run high, and in a very short time people will be eager to invest at double or triple the price.

So much, then, for the dollars and cents view of the question ; but let me revert once more to the other, which is by far the most important.

Supposing, then, your contributions were outright gifts to the cause, -would you be the loser ? I think not.

Miners and laboring men, \vhat is the price of your health, your liberty, your independence ? Are they not worth more than all the iilthy lucre you could possess I Who is there among you so avaricious as to refuse to give and donate outright a few paltry dollars per month to a cause which will elevate your race, secure your health, your liberty, and your independence ? A cause which will insure to you liberal wages ; a cause which will effectually settle that vexed Chinese question ; a cause which will make you the power of this land, make powerless your oppressors, and break up your arch enemy, the California Dank. I say, who is there so blind as not to see the magnitude of the question ?

Let a noble rivalry spring up among you who shall come in first ; drop all prejudice ; let all trifling objections fall to the ground; let one excel the other in magnanimity; lot all make one joint, grand, unanimous effort, and victory will be ours.

**n

Suteo Tunnel,

Hearing By

The

Committee On Mines And Mining,

Ok The

House Of Kepresentatives.

Monday, February 12, 1872.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask General Foster, who is one of the commissioners appointed by the President under the act of Congress, approved April 4, 1871, to examine and report upon the Sutro tunnel, a few questions with relation to certain facts in that connection. I find here, General, on page 8 of the report, you state as follows:

" Under the present system of operating the mines" —

Mr. NEGLEY. Please state what was the composition of the commission.

Gen. FOSTER. There is General H. G. Wright, Lieutenant Colonel of Engineers, Brevet Major General United States Army; General J. G. Foster, Lieutenant Colonel of Engineers, and Brevet Major General United States Army; and Wesley Newcomb, Civil and Mining Engineer.

Mr. SUTRO. I was reading from page 8, as follows:

"Under the present system of operating the mines, the ore and the refuse rock are raised to the surface, through the shafts, by steam power ; the ore being transported to the mills by wagons, or by the railroad before alluded to, and the refuse rock deposited at the dumps contiguous to the shafts. The items of expense, as given by the superintendents, vary somewhat, as might have been expected, in view of the different circumstances in each. The average of certain of the more important of them may, however, be stated with sufficient accuracy, as follows :

"Cost per ton of hoisting from depths varying from 1,200 to 1,750 feet, being the average reported for seven of the principal mines of the lode, $0.51.17.

"Cost of pumping for the year ending June 30, 1871, as-arrived at by the commission, by taking the cost of the mines as far as reported, and estimating for the rest $124,674."

Now, I want to ask you, General Foster, how you arrived at these figures : whether you simply took the statements of the superintendents of the companies, or whether you had an opportunity of examining the books of the companies as to the correctness of those statements?

A. It was decided by the commission to address to each of the superintendents of the mines an official communication, so that their replies to certain questions, which were presented in that official communication, should be official, and signed officially by the superintendents, thereby furnishing us material upon which we could base our report, and which we could annex to our report. We did not seek access to the books, because we wanted specific information on certain points, which they could furnish better, if we addressed them in this way. Their answers were received, and they are incorporated in the appendix to the report. We based our estimates upon those statements. We had no more reason 'to doubt the accuracy of those statements than we had to doubt the accuracy of their annual reports. My answer to your question, therefore, is, that we based our estimates upon the statements, they made in reply to our inquiries — upon their official statements.

Q. Have you made any comparison between the statements which were made by the superintendents and the statements furnished by their annual reports? Have you been able to make a comparison, or has it been possible for you to make one, as far as the accuracy of these statements is concerned?

A. Well, we made certain comparisons; but with us it was not a question of invalidating their reports. We did not make comparisons with a view to test the complete accuracy of what they wrote us. As the basis of estimates, we had no reason to question the veracity of their statements, and we took their statements.

3

Q. Exactly. Now let us turn to page 9.

Mr. KENDALL. By the way, Mr. Sutro, yon refer to the annual reports of the superintendents of the mines, do you not?

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, sir; to their published reports.

Mr. FOSTER. We compared all the statements we received with their annual reports for the year ending July, 1871.

Mr. SUTRO. Last year?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, sir; we had those reports. We had also some of the previous year. We had also the general table that is published, I believe, every three months, giving the amount of assessments, the amount of dividends, etc. We compared their statements with all those. We had not, however, a complete set of their official reports.

Mr. SUTRO. Are those annual reports of the mining companies given in such a manner that you could arrive at any estimate of the cost of hoisting, for instance? Are they given in detail?

A. I don't think they are, in the form in which they are given to the public. It is not designed to go into these points in their annual reports.

Q. They don't give a complete copy of their books, in fact. Now, if we turn over to page 9, you will find an estimate you made of the cost of working, as it is done at the present time. You state that —

"If we assume what appears from the reports and from other sources as an average yield of the mines, viz: 365,600 tons annually — the cost for. certain items of expense by the present method of working will be as follows:

"Hoisting 365,600 tons of pay ore, at 51.17 cents $187,077 52

" Transportation of same to mills, at $1.50 .548,400 00

"Pumping for last year, (commission's estimate) 124,674 00

"Hoisting and lowering 3,000 miners, at 8 cents each way, or

16 cents each 175.0QO 00"

That makes a total cost of $1,035,151.52.

ISTow, I want to ask you whether this estimate of $187,- 077.52 for hoisting is taken as an average of the statements by the superintendents?

A. It is, for hoisting that distance — from 1,250 to 1,700 feet.

Q. You have taken their figures and made an average of them?

A. Yes, sir; the statements are all printed in the appendix to this report.

Q. Pumping for last year you estimate at $124,674. Did you arrive at that estimate in the same manner?

A. Yes, sir; in the same manner.

§.-.! belie vey-ou state so on page 8,

"By reference to the statements of the superintendents, appended to this report, it will be seen that the cost of pumping for all the mines did not, probably, exceed $150,000 for the past year, and that in some of them there was no water at all. This sum exceeds that arrived at by the commission, viz, $124,674, which was obtained by taking the costs as given for the mines so far as reported, and estimating for the others."

That is the language?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When you speak of "estimating for the others," do you mean you based your estimates upon the information furnished by those seven superintendents?

A. Yes, sir; partly on that. In making the estimates, however, we relied somewhat upon our observation — the information we derived in our visits to the mines.

Q. Now, if we turn over to some of these statements about cost, as furnished by the superintendents, we find on page 29, at the bottom,

" Total cost per day for hoisting two hundred and sixteen tons of ore 1,750 feet, $63 95, or 29.6 cents per ton?"

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is the statement made by Captain H. H. Day, the superintendent of the Ophir Silver Mining Company?

A. Yes.

Q. He speaks of hoisting two hundred and sixteen tons of ore; were they hoisting any ore from the Ophir mine when you were over there?

A. No, sir; they were hoisting refuse rock.

Q. Yes, those are simply nominal figures. They are not based upon any fact at all. That 29.6 cents per ton is an estimate made out

A. Well, it costs the same to hoist rock as it does ore, and the circumstances are substantially the same.

Q. Well, now, Mr. Day, on page 28, gives us an estimate how much it costs the Ophir mine. He shows here that the labor of miners, of carmen, of blacksmiths and helpers, of engineers and firemen, of wood hauling and powder, fuse and caps, steel, candles, wood, every thing put together, in fact, the total of mining, cost $64.04/3 a foot; that is, in sinking the shaft of the Ophir mine from the 720-foot level, (there is a misprint here; it reads 270 feet; it ought to be 720,) it has cost $64.04f57 a foot. Then he goes on to state, furthermore, that it costs $10.27 to timber the same, .which gives a total of $74.31T5Q- for every foot of descent of the shaft. The next statement is in regard to the cost of making the drifts in the mine. The superintendent of the Ophir mine proceeds to show here how much it costs to make the drifts in the mine; namely $25.11 per foot. The Ophir company had sunk their shaft the depth given here, 1,002 feet. Was that the depth they had reached the time you were there ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, they have extended their shaft somewhat in depth since; and on the 5th of February, the present month, they had reached a depth of 1,270 feet. That is the Ophir shaft. During the time they were occupied in constructing that shaft, they made drifts amounting to 3,350 feet. According to the statement which Captain Day furnishes here, we get $74 31 for every foot of descent. If we multiply that by 1,270, the number of

feet of depth, we get $94,373 70

If we multiply 3,350 feet of drift by $25 11, the

estimate furnished by Captain Day, we get-- 84,118 50

Or a total for both of- $178,492 20

Now, let us see how much the Ophir company has spent. We have here the official reports made by Mr. Raymond, the United States commissioner on mining. He states in his report for 1868 (that is the official report published by

order of Congress) that the Ophir company, (the report is dated December 18, 1868,) had levied assessments up to that time amounting to §593,000. The old mine and shaft were abandoned about sixteen months before. That was on the 18th of December, 1868. He states,

"The old mine and shaft were abandoned about sixteen months ago, since which time work has been progressing on the new shaft, without however ever striking any ore."

And consequently we find that the Ophir company, since that time — sixteen months previous to this date, which brings us back to the. 18th of August, 1867— has done nothing but sink a shaft and make certain drifts from that shaft without striking any ore. You are aware that there has been no ore found in the mine ?

A. Yes.

Q. That you know of your own observation. What I want to show now is the amount of money this company has collected, and compare that with the statements furnished in the reports to the commissioners. It is stated here that the assessments which have been levied up to that time are $593,000. We find that since 1867 they have levied the following : They levied in the year 1867, in the

latter half $100,000

also an official report, shows for

From which deduct assessments

levied in the first half of the year. 84,000

And you have for 1867— $100,000 00

We find in Raymond's report for 1868 the assessments for that year were . 168,000 00

For 1869, Mr. Raymond states it at— ._ 134,000 00

In 1870 it is 168,000 00

And the expenses stated by Captain Day, for

the year 1870, are 140,571 87

This makes a total of.- ._._ $710,571 00

7

collected by the Opbir company since they commenced this new shaft. There were, however, other items which they collected from the sale of machinery and mills, which amount to some seventy-odd thousand dollars. The amount was $66,663, which they received from these other sources. This makes a showing that they have collected, as above, nearly $800,000, as taken from the reports of Mr. Raymond.

But if we take another basis, and take Wheeler's report, published on the 15th of November, 1871, we find that the total assessments of the Ophir company were $1,144,000 since its incorporation; and that is an official report. It is taken as authority by all. It is the official mining report. If you deduct from that atnourit $593,000, which is given here up to the 18th of December, 1868, by Mr. Raymond, we get $551,000. "With what had been levied in the year and a half previous to that, we get $819,000, very nearly corresponding with the figures I have given. Now, for that $819,000 the Ophir company has constructed 1,270 feet of shaft and 3,350 feet of drifts, which have cost, according to the statement given in the report of the commissioners, $178,492 20. The work has cost $178,492 20, and the company has collected $800,000. There's a discrepancy of over $600,000 here. The present superintendent of the Ophir mine, (Mr. Day, who was superintendent there before, 'having been discharged,) will furnish any data that may be wanted from his books. I took the trouble to telegraph him to find out precisely how many feet they had constructed at their shaft, and how many in drifts. Here is my telegram, dated February 4, 1872:

"To PHILIP DEIDESHEIMER, Virginia City: "Telegraph total expenditures of Ophir c

company since new shaft started; also how many feet drifts and shaft constructed since that time."

That is my telegram. Here is the answer, dated February 5:

" Main shaft down 1,270 feet ; winzes, 400 feet; drifts, 2,950 feet; shaft expense is $423,000; machinery expense is $173,000; total expense of Ophir new shaft, $596,000."

Five hundred and ninety-six thousand dollars! This

don't quite come up to the figures which we arrive at by taking the assessments levied, but still it amounts to a very large sum — to about $600,000. Now, if we go a little further into these figures —

Mr. WALDRON. One moment, Mr. Sutro. This machinery expense of $173,000 of course is not included in this statement of Captain Day.

Mr. SUTRO. No, sir. We don't include that. We take the expense of $423,000, the actual expense at the shaft.

Mr. WALDRON. The fair comparison is between the $423,000 and the amount that this would figure up at $74 a foot.

Mr. SUTRO. Precisely. In the commissioner's report this figure is given. *

Mr. KENDALL. Have you calculated what would be the expense per running foot of all this shafting and drifting, to show the difference between your estimates and those of the commissioners per foot?

Mr. SUTRO. The difference is just 2 y^ times as much. That is the exact figure. Taking $178,492 as the cost given by this estimate furnished to the commissioners, while the actual cost has been $423,000, we have to multiply all these sums, these data, by 2 T376Q-, in order to arrive at the correct cost. I want to show now, if we examine a little further into these figures, that we find it stated by Mr. Day that the dimensions of his shaft (it is on page 28) are, outside of timbers, 18 feet 8 inches by 7 feet 4 inches. The dimensions of his drift are 4 feet 7 inches-by 6 feet 6 inches. So that, by calculating the area, we get the .cubic contents of each foot of descent in the shaft, viz, 10 T5^- tons, taking 13 cubic feet of rock for a ton. Here we have for every foot of descent 10 tons and -ff^- of a ton. 1,270 feet of shaft in descent will give us 13,360 tons and j4^-. Taking the drifts, we find -3,350 feet, which would average, according to his figures, 2 tons and T%5¥ per foot; that is, every foot of drift gives us 2 T2^- tons. This gives us a total of 7,537 T5^- tons, extracted by the Ophir company, of waste rock from the drifts, and 13,360 y4^- tons taken

9

out from the shaft, a total of 20,897 *<fo tons taken out since the new shaft was started, and that event was on the 18th of August, 1867. If we take that as a basis, 20,897 tons, which is absolutely the total of tons extracted from that mine, during which time the actual expenses have been $423,000, we find that during 1,628 days, or four years, five months, and eighteen days, they have hoisted out 12 ,8/g- tons per day. According to the statement which Captain Day furnishes, of 29.6 cents per ton for hoisting, we have a daily expense of hoisting rock of $3 80. Now, do you believe that is correct, General Foster, that the expenses of hoisting rock from the Ophir mine are only $3 80 per day?

Mr. FOSTER. Well, I am not prepared to state, because I have not followed your calculations ; but we went to the Ophir mine and examined it pretty thoroughly, and made notes there. We took this statement and the items of hoisting rock and ore. The first items of hoisting would be the engineers' and firemen's wages, the wood hauling, fuel, oil, tallow, etc., etc., and the interest on the machinery, the wear and tear. These are some of the small items. We took his estimate and went over it, and made up our minds that it was a pretty fair estimate, taking the prices as they were out there. He gave us sufficient confidence in the estimate to base our estimates upon it.

Q. But upon how many tons was this estimate based? Did you know or did you arrive at these figures, showing that the average hoisting was but 12 ,804o tons per day? His estimate is upon the basis of taking out 216 tons per day, but they never took that out.

A. Well, we know that they can run the cars at the rate of 800 feet per minute; we know that they carry double-deck cars, because we saw them doing it ; we know that each car contains about fifteen hundred pounds; we know that they can run easily six trips an hour, including all the stoppages, delays, etc., and hoisting the men; and taking these six an hour, and twenty four hours in the day, you will get just 216 tons.

10

Q. Yes; but that has not been the amount extracted.

A. I don't say that they hoisted 216 tons; but if they run their machinery the way they can run it, paying their engineers, firemen, wood-haulers, etc., according to the prices out there, running the machinery all the time regularly, they can hoist 216 tons a day.

Q. But that is not the question I want to get at. I want to get at this question : Do you believe that 12 ^ tons per day can be hoisted as cheaply per ton as 216 tons ?

A. No, sir; it cannot.

Q. Do you believe it possible that they could even oil that whole machinery of hoisting for $3.80 a day?

A. No, sir; not if they run it all the time.

Q. But could they run it at all at that rate ?

A. No, sir ; they could not start the machinery for that. Each fireman's wages would be $4.00.

Q. Well, now, in making your estimates about the cost of hoisting, you have taken the statements which these gentlemen have furnished. As I have shown already, the cost of hoisting here is based upon a very large extraction; and this gentleman at the Ophir mine, where they have taken out no ore at all, bases his figures upon an extraction of 216 tons a day, while they only extracted 12 tons a day. Now, in making your figures, taking the average of the statements made by the various superintendents, you arrived at the estimate of 51 ^ cents per ton. If you take the hoisting of the Ophir mine as a basis, you find that the difference in the statement furnished there and the statement of the actual expenses is $11.70 per ton on every ton of ore : that is the difference we get. Now, General Foster, would you consider that a fair average, taking the statements made by the superintendents, 51 cents a ton, including in your premises the waste rock which has been hoisted ?

A. Well, the waste rock costs exactly as much as the ore, and the statements of all the superintendents as to what it costs them to hoist a ton are given. We took an average of all those statements. Yes, I consider that fair;

11

because when I went through the mines I asked some of the superintendents, incidentally, what it cost them to raise a ton of ore, and they told me, and I made a note of it at the time. Those incidental reports were made without any idea of their being used, and they accord very well. The general statement was fifty cents a ton.

Q. You took the statements which they furnished ?

A. Yes, sir ; I took the statements which they furnished and authenticated them by observation.

Q. You state on page 9,

" In the above statement the cost of hoisting the refuse rock from the drifts, winzes, etc., is not included"

A. Not included ; no.

Q-

"as the quantity is wholly indeterminate, being the greatest in those

mines where prospecting alone is being carried on, and the least in those which are working upon ore bonanzas. Indeed, in the latter the amount of debris is inconsiderable. It would be of the highest importance to a full and accurate comparison of the cost of working in the mines by the present method and by the tunnel to introduce this item, as it is very considerable,, and the expenditure per ton for hoisting it is the same as for ore; but this seems quite impossible, owing to the indefiniteness of the quantity of refuse from the mines." \

You state here that you have not included the hoisting of refuse matter, because you could get no figures, you could get no estimate. Now, what I want to get at is, can they hoist refuse rock from a mine, where it must be very limited, at the same rate that they can hoist a large quantity of ore?

A. Of course they can hoist no more rock than they excavate from the drifts and the shafts ; whereas where they are taking out ore they hoist a much larger quantity, because the miners are throwing out a much larger quantity.

Q. Then it costs them comparatively less to hoist large quantities than small quantities per ton ?

A. Yes, sir; very much less.

Q. Does it make a material difference in the cost where you have a steam engine or two steam engines, and have got to have engineers and firemen and everything to keep the machinery going, whether you hoist twelve tons or two hundred tons a day? It is nearly the same expense, is it not?

12

A. "Well, no. If you only have twelve tons to hoist, you run your machinery only a short time. If you are hoisting large quantities, you run night and day. In one case you have three relays of men ; in the other you have only one.

Q. Well, if you are running day and night in the mine, won't you have to keep your machinery in motion all the time, and hoist out when the time comes ?

A. No, sir; I think they can accumulate the surplus in the shaft, and hoist it all at one time. When I was at the Ophir they were not running machinery. They had been running it, but they were not running it then. "We went there another time when they were running it. So that they accumulate their rock, -I think, down below, on a level, and hoist it up all at one time. I am not sure of that, however, but such is .my impression.

Q. But in sinking a shaft, they must remove the rock as fast as. it is taken out ?

A. In sinking a shaft; yes, sir. But it is not necessary. They can put it up on a shelf.

Q. But in running a drift the rock is removed from the face where they are working, and put into cars at once?

A. Into cars ; yes, sir.

Q. But where will they leave those cars if they do not hoist them at once?

A. Well, they can put them along the drift, and have a dozen or twenty cars ready when the time comes for hoisting.

Q. Do you know a single place in the Comstock lode where they don't hoist out the rock as they go along ; do you know of any mine, of your own knowledge, where this is not the course pursued ?

A. It is my impression that they usually hoist the rock as fast as they mine it, but I do not consider it a necessity at all. As I told you, Tme time I went to the Ophir mine and they were not hoisting, although they were working below.

13

Q. Supposing you were to run your machinery all the time, would it not cost as much to take out twelve tons a day as it would two hundred and sixteen?

A. Yes, sir; it would cost nearly as much to take out a little as a great deal.

Q. Well, then, do you consider this a fair estimate which has heen given here, of twenty-nine cents per ton, when, according to the figures which I have given here, based upon •the actual amount, we find it costs $11.70 additional for every ton of rock they have taken out; and do you consider that twenty-nine cents would begin to cover the cost in the Ophir mine of hoisting the rock ?

A. Well, I don't know. It might, under certain circumstances.

Q. As the circumstances were there — as they have been there; and would you think twenty-nine cents a ton covered the expenses of hoisting?

A. Well, not while we were there; no, not at that particular time. I don't think it would cover their expenses.

Q. Well, taking this as a basis, have you any idea where the discrepancy of $200,000 in Captain Day's figures comes from? Have you any idea what that money could have been spent for, if it was not for pumping ?

A. Well, I had no data to get at the expenditure of money. They had put up new buildings and new machinery.

Q. That is not included in this ; the machinery has cost $173,000?

A. They bought new dumping-grounds.

Q. That, of course, is not included.

A. Of course I cannot estimate how they spent their money.

Q. They have a total here of over $800,000 which they have expended there, and it is not accounted for ; it is only $178,000, and what has become of the money?

A. Well, that we don't pretend to find out.

Q. Of course you had no access to their books ?

A. We took the items of expenses and looked at them

14

to see whether they were correct, and whether they had estimated them at a fair rate.

Q. ]N"ow, if we turn to page 30, in the report of Captain Day, we find he states,

"The amount of water raised during the year ending May 31, 1871, the monthly average of daily measurements, as follows : In June, 1870, 18 inches ; July, 16 inches; August, 11 inches ; September, 11 inches: October, 10 inches; November, 10 inches; December, 10 inches. In January, 1871, 9 inches; February, 9 inches; March, 9 inches; April, 8 inches; May, 7 inches. Present flow of water, September 10, 1871,5 inches. Decrease in amount of water at 700-foot level, from June, 1870, to date, 72T2^ff per cent."

Did you enter the Ophir mine while you were over there r

A. We did.

Q. Did you go into the drift ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You probably know, then, that the drift extends from the 700-foot level, from which he dates the decrease in water here ; in fact, he states on the preceding page that the drift does extend from the 700-foot level.

Mr. FOSTER. I beg your pardon ; I did not go down the Ophir shaft. I forgot. I think I did not go down.

Mr. SUTRO. "Well, I want to call attention to the fairness of Mr. Day's statement. The water in the Comstock lode-- Mr. BANKS. Two or three gentlemen have just come in since the discussion began. I do not understand what particular proposition is intended.

Mr. WALDRON. Mr. Sutro is attacking the report made by Captain Day, superintendent of the Ophir silver mine, which report is attached to the report of the commissioners, and introducing figures and statistics to show that the report of Captain Day is incorrect, so far as the cost of making shafts and drifts in the mines are concerned.

Mr. BANKS. Is it above the cost, or below the cost?

Mr. WALDRON. Below the cost.

Mr. SUTRO. What I am trying to show is this: In the report of the commissioners, on page 9, it is stated, in a comparison between the cost of mining as it is done now, and the cost of mining through the tunnel, that under the present mode of mining it costs 51 '-ffc cents per ton to

15

hoist. I am trying to show that it costs in some mines more than §10 per ton to hoist. General Foster has stated that this estimate of 51 ^ cents is arrived at by taking the statements of the various mine superintendents and averaging them. That is it, is it not, General?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUTRO. The commissioners had no access to the hooks over there, and the only figures they could make were by taking the statements of these people anjd averaging them, and basing their report on the data furnished. I want to show that these people have not told the whole truth, have not told the whole thing, as I have already shown in the case of the Ophir company. In this mine, where the expenditures amounted to from six to eight hundred thousand dollars during the time they had been constructing this shaft, according to the statement of the superintendent, it only cost $178,000. Consequently there is a discrepancy of from four to six hundred thousand dollars.

Mr. BANKS. It is an under-estimate to that amount.

Mr. SUTRO. It is an underestimate absolutely, and it makes an unfavorable showing as regards the comparative working of the tunnel. It is my endeavor to show that these people here who have made these figures have not told the whole truth; they have withheld certain facts which are highly important to know; and they can only be brought • out by having these gentlemen state, of their own knowledge, what they know of the accuracy of these figures, and what we can arrive at by examining the official reports which are made from year to year to Congress by the Commissioner on the mineral resources of the country.

Mr. N"EGLEY. Mr. Chairman, right here I would like to ask one question of General Foster.

Mr. WALDRON. Certainly.

Mr. ;N~EGLEY. During your investigations there,. Mr. Foster, did you discover any feeling of antagonism among the owners of these properties to the projected tunnel?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, sir; decidedly.

16

Q. That feeling was general?

A: Not to obstruct their giving information of all kinds. They came to us and said they courted the fullest investigation; and they facilitated our visits to the mines, came to us with invitations, took us to the mines. "We went through almost all the mines. They gave information freely, verbally and in writing; but there was a decided feeling of antagonism, as shown by their published reports. In their conversations they said about the same things }rou find in their reports, made here and in the appendix. Some of them were quite violently opposed; others less so. Some, whose names appear here, appeared to be rather lukewarm in their opposition. Still, as a general thing, with one or two exceptions, they were opposed to the tunnel. The feeling was against it.

Q. Did they give you their reasons?

A. Yes, sir; they gave reasons about as they are embodied in their reports here. They said that they could hoist by the present arrangement cheaper than they could send their ore out by railroad trains five miles, the hoisting being direct, and with nearly the same velocity. They claimed that stationary machinery was cheaper to use than rolling stock; that time was an element in getting miners in and out, and also in getting lumber in and out. The}7 made other minor points,' that they enlarged upon in conversation; but these are the principal ones, and the ones to which we attached most importance.

Q. Another question, General. Presuming the introduction of any more facile mode of removing the rock and ore from the mines, would it not lessen the number of employes that are now engaged in operating the machinery and hoisting apparatus?

A. You mean if the tunnel comes in?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Well, in my opinion it would almost do away with machinery. That is to say, if they mine up from the tunnel, they can, with very simple arrangements of pulleys and endless chains, let down the ore and carry their tim-

17

her and miners up; in fact, hoisting apparatus, if at all necessary, would be of a very light character.

Q. Would that not necessarily invoke the hostility of the employes that are there now, seeing their occupations likely to be gone?

A. Perhaps the engineers, and firemen, and pitmen, and wood-haulers; that would be all. You see the miners would have to be engaged just the same as now. The carpenters that place the timbers would have to be employed just as now. There would be very few engineers but would find employment in the new mills that would be erected at the mouth of the tunnel, so that it would not affect labor.

Q. My inquiry arose from the fact, that miners in our coal mines are almost invariably opposed to any innovation or new custom in the old established rules of mining?

o

A. Now that you have mentioned that, I will say the miners, as far as I could get information from prominent men, seemed to be in favor of the tunnel. I believe the Miners' Union is in favor of the tunnel.

Q. Did they give you their reasons?

A. No; they had no reason that I knew of. They had their preferences, though.

Mr. SUTRO. General, do you know who are opposed to the tunnel, or at least who are charged with being opposed to it over there by these people you speak of? Who is at the bottom of it?

Mr. FOSTER. If you want a straightforward answer, I would say that the property-owners in Virginia City, those that have money invested in the mills around there, the Bank of California, through its agent, and the railroad company.

Q. May I ask you who the owners of the railroad are, as far as you know: whether it is owned by the Bank^of California or its men ?

A. I don't know who the owners are.

Q. "Well, what did you hear over there? Tell us simply 2

18

by hearsay. You cannot have an absolute knowledge, for you haven't seen their books.

A. I haven't the slightest idea who owns that road.

Q. "Who has control of it?

A. Mr. Sharon seemed to control it.

Q. The agent of the Bank of California?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who owns the majority of the mills over there?

A. On the Carson river?

Q. Yes, sir; and the other mills — the majority of the mills.

A. A very large number of the mills is owned by the Union- Mill and Mining Company.

Q. Do you know whether the Bank of California has anything to do with that?

A. Mr. Sharon has a large amount of stock in that, I 'believe, but I am not positive.

Q. Is he the agent of the Bank of California?

A. I heard so.

Q. Well, then, the opposition to it is by the Bank of California, by the railroad, and by the mills — which means the Bank of California — and by some people who own town lots in Virginia City. Do you know why these people are opposed to it?

A. Well, they say that it will render their property comparatively valueless.

Q. Because the town would move away from there?

A. Yes, sir; because the workmen would have to go to the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. Well, it is about the same sort of opposition that men who own a toll-road would make against a railroad, because it would diminish the value of their property?

Mr. SARGENT. How large a town is Virginia City?

Mr. FOSTER. I should say it had about 3,000 inhabitants.

Mr. SARGENT. Oh, it has a great deal more than that. It is a large mining town, isn't it?

Mr. SUTRO. I suppose there are 6,000 people there.

Mr. FOSTER. In Virginia City ?

19

Mr. SUTRO. Yes; I suppose there are.

Mr. FOSTER. You mean Gold Hill and everything included, I suppose ?

Mr. SUTRO. No, sir.

Mr. SARGENT. The result would be to destroy all the property there. Then, aside from those great values, how about 'those mills that are used, under present circumstances, upon Carson river? Those are considerable, I suppose. Then this railroad that has been built; that would be useless, would it not?

Mr. FOSTER. That would become comparatively useless.

Q. So that, by running that tunnel in there, all these persons owning these property interests would have them destroyed?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you see anything unnatural, then, in their opposition to the project?

A. "No, sir; nothing at all.

Mr. SUTRO. General Foster, don't you think that some day there will be an end to mining at Virginia City, the way they are doing it now ?

A. No, sir; not at all. They can go down four thousand feet. I don't know how the heat will be there. We estimate that they cannot go below that, because the heat will be .almost too great for them to work.

Q. Don't the" expense increase as you go down?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You state in your report that there are out there very large quantities of low grade ores?

A. Yes, sir; very large.

Q. Do you think they could be worked up to Virginia City and carried on the railroad with advantage?

A. Not at the present prices. It would not pay to take out low grade ores at the present prices.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Do you mean prices of labor?

A. Yes, sir; prices of labor and milling. It doesn't pay now to take out ore that is not worth $20 a ton. It costs that to mine and mill it, and anything that yields less than

20

that (although it may assay much more) won't answer to work. But I hope in time they will hit upon some cheap method of reducing the ores, so that a great deal of these low-grade ores will be worked over.

Mr. SUTRO. Don't you think, General Foster, that if these shafts were connected with the tunnel, it would be cheaper to drop the ore than to hoist it out, which is done now by fifty-four steam engines?

A. Yes, sir; it would be cheaper to drop it down than to raise it up.

Q. Would a tunnel practically abolish all that steam machinery up there?

A. It would to a large extent; yes, sir.

Q. To a very large extent?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The ore could be dropped down into the tunnel, or rather lowered down, at*a very trifling cost?

A. Yes, sir; comparatively trifling, looking at the present expense of getting it out.

Q. Well, the expense of bringing the ore from the mines to the mouth of the tunnel, it is stated here, can be put down as low as seven cents a ton ?

A. Seven cents a ton a mile?

Q. Seven cents a ton for the whole distance.

Mr. SARGENT. What report have you, Mr. Sutro?

Mr. SUTRO. It is a report by Mr. Carlyle, a very eminent engineer and intelligent mechanic. He gives the comparative costs here of taking out ore. In the first place he does it by horses. He says that one hundred horses, at two hundred dollars each, will cost $20,000, and the cost of running that appliance is as follows : Three per cent, per month (you know they are liberal in interest) interest for one day on $20,000

is $20 00

And six per cent, per month for wear and tear is.- 40 00 Feed -for one hundred horses, at $1 50 each per

day, would be — 150 00

Fifty drivers, at $3 50 each per day

21

Mr. FOSTER. I don't understand it is proposed to use horses?

Mr. SUTRO. No; I am giving some comparative statements here; I am instituting a comparison. Fifty drivers, at $3 50 each per day, would be $175; that is, $885 per day. And if we assume the total extraction of ore and rock at three thousand tons a day, this gives a cost of thirteen cents per ton, which is a very fair estimate.

Mr. FOSTER. Is that for the whole distance, sir?

Mr. SUTRO. The whole distance.

Mr. FOSTER. Well, the cost of transportation is a practical thing, that practical railroad men can tell. Running-through a tunnel, it would be at a little increase in cost. They would have to go with greater care, and the wear and tear would be greater?

Mr. SUTRO. Where there is much transportation, I think the general estimate is two cents per ton per mile. The tunnel would be four miles long, and at that rate it would give a cost of eight cents. But here is another method, which is the proper method to employ, and that is the one we have been calculating upon. I will describe now the method which ought to be employed in the transportation of the ore from where it is mined to the mouth of' the tunnel. It would be by an endless rope, a wire rope, and a stationary engine at the mouth, a wire rope^ running on rollers and pulleys, and running like a belt, such as is used very extensively in the mines of England. As fast as cars are loaded they are clamped on to the rope and are drawn out. There is a continuous coming in and going out. The moment a car reaches the mouth of the tunnel, the clamp detaches it, and leaves it free to move off. That is the system, in brief, to be employed. The total cost will be $49,328.

To get at the daily expense to run this apparatus, Mr. Carlyle gives us the following figures: Three per cent, interest per month for one day on

Five per cent, per month, wear and tear, one day

on §50,000 83 33J

Two and one-third cords of wood, at $8 per cord- 18 66|

Two engineers, at $5 per day 10 00

Oil, tallow, and general findings 10 00

Attendants- 40 00

Total $212 00

Or 3,000 tons, at seven cents per ton, for a distance of four miles.

Mr. WALDRON. By this calculation, it is meant that the whole apparatus shall be replaced in twenty months?

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, sir. These figures have heen made with great care. This was intended to be submitted to financial men, so that there should be no caviling. Including everything, wear and tear and interest, and the wages of the necessary employees, with an extraction of 3,000 tons of ore a day, this method gives us transportation to the mouth of the tunnel at the rate of seven cents a ton.

" Hearing by the Sub- Committee on Mines and Mining, appointed

February 12^/i, and consisting of Messrs. JAMES S. NE&LEY, WALTER L. SESSIONS^ FHANCIS E. SHOBEII, and CHARLES W. KENDALL.

Friday Evening, February 16, 1872, At 7J O&#x27;Clock.

The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen of the committee, Mr. Sutro has requested the opportunity to continue his examination before the sub-committee us before the committee of the whole, and, there being no objection, he will now proceed. I have indicated to Mr. Sutro, and will now to Mr. Sunderland, that, in order to prevent the continued recalling of the members of the commission appointed to examine and report on the tunnel, it will be best for the gentleman on the one side to put his interrogatories, and the gentleman on the other side to follow. If there be no objection to that we will so proceed.

Mr. SUTRO. Shall I commence?

The CHAIKMAJ*. Just go on with your examination, if you desire.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, Mr. Chairman, I would ask General Foster now whether he is familiar with the cost of transportation on railroads generally?

Mr. FOSTER. No, sir ; not very familiar.

Q. Have you any idea how much it costs per ton a mile?

A. I have an idea; yes, sir; but no accurate one.

Q. Well, what is your idea of the cost ?

A. Well, three or four cents per ton.

Q. Three or four cents; on ordinary railroads?

A. On ordinary railroads, yes.

Q. That cost would be increased somewhat in a tunnel, I suppose ?

A. Yes; on account of the slowness and care that must be observed in running the trains, the additional caution

23

24

to be exercised, and all the elements of expense that go to make up the cost of running trains.

Q. Have you made any comparison between the cost on different roads, in order to arrive at your estimates?

A. No, sir; no.

Q. I made inquiry of General Dodge, who is a very experienced railroad man, a few days ago, and he told me the average cost is about a cent and a quarter a mile?

A. Ah!

Q. In regard to lowering rock from shafts into tunnels: are you acquainted with the kinds of apparatus usually used for that purpose in mines? Here is a drawing of one in Mr. Carlyle's report. [Exhibiting draught.]

A. I have never seen one of those in operation, but I have examined that plan, and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.

Q. The operation is by a double shaft, with a car attached to a wire rope, which passes over a double pulley, and the loaded car going down pulls up the empty car. That is, the loaded car pulls-up the empty car and the cage.

Mr. SHOBER. "What is it loaded with going down ?

Mr. SUTRO. It is loaded with ore or rock.

Mr. SHOBER. I thought it was to hoist the ore?

Mr. SUTRO. No, sir; it is to lower the ore into the tunnel. The operation is carried out by having a brake attached to a wire rope, which regulates the motion, and the loaded car going down draws up the empty car. Do you see any difficulty about that operation, General Foster?

Mr. FOSTER. No, sir, I do not, with proper brakes.

Mr. SUTRO. All that would be required is, a brakesman to stand by the brake, who shall lower the ore down and stop it at the different stations as the signals are given.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The committee will understand that all this that is taken down is not General Foster's testimony.

Mr. SUTRO. Whatever transpires will appear in the report, which is to be printed. It will be necessary for me to

25

elaborate my questions somewhat, because they are intricate questions.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I know, Mr. Sutro, you may very often make a long statement, to which General Foster does not make any reply at all; and I see it is all taken down. I don't know whether it is taken down as testimony or not. If it is only shown it is not testimony, that is all I want.

Mr. SUTRO. I think it will clearly appear in the report what is a question, what is a statement by me, and what is a statement by General Foster. It will clearly appear, as you will see from this report of last Monday's hearing.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I haven't seen that.

Mr. SUTRO. No, sir; because it has just been printed. Here is a proof-sheet of the last proceedings.

The CHAIRMAN. I have no doubt the committee would desire direct interrogatories and replies, so far as practicable.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I should very much prefer it, as far as I am concerned.

Mr. SUTRO. Have you any idea, General Foster, how much it would cost per ton to lower it in the manner shown ?

Mr. FOSTER. We estimate it would cost ten cents per ton.

Mr. SUTRO. Then, according to your statement here, it costs ten cents a ton to lower it. I think that is the statement you made?

A. Yes, that it would cost ten cents a ton.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Did I understand the chairman to say he desires me to ask questions as we go along?

The CHAIRMAN. No, sir. It is intended for you to proceed after Mr. Sutro and members of the committee.

Mr. SUTRO. I understand you I am to proceed now, and Mr. Sunclerland is to come on afterwards.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That's it. I didn't understand the chairman; that is all. I wanted to understand it.

Mr. SUTRO. According to this statement, Gen. Foster, you say it costs ten cents to lower the ore. Was it three

26

or four cents a mile cost of railroad transportation that you stated?

Mr. FOSTER. I stated that I ain not acquainted with railroad transportation.

Q. But your idea?

A. That was my idea.

Q. Well, at that rate, for five miles it would cost 25 cents, and ten cents to lower it, would make 35 cents per ton to-take the ore out of the mine and deliver it at the mouth of the tunnel. That corresponds with your figure, I believe?

A. JSTo; five miles, at three cents, would be fifteen cents, and ten cents for lowering, is twenty-five cents.

Q. Twenty-five cents. Then, according to this modus operandit it would cost twenty-five cents per ton to take the ore from the mine and deliver it at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. I don't say that it can be delivered for that; I simply say that that was my general idea about railroad transportation. Of course, in a tunnel tne expense would be much greater.

Q. How much greater do you think?

A. I don't wish to make any new estimates, Mr. Sutro.

Q. You do not?

A. ~NonQ at all. I don't appear as an expert upon railroad transportation, and don't want to be drawn into making any statements which might conflict with established facts.

Q. Well, I will leave that subject now. I will go into the report of Mr. Day. I want to ask a few questions in regard to that, as far as your own knowledge and observation in regard to the operation of the tunnel is concerned.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sutro will you be so kind always as to designate the page from which you are reading, so that the committee, in perusing the testimony, may be enabled to turn to it without any delay?

Mr. SUTRO. This is on page 26.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your question?

Mr. SUTRO. T wish to read from the Commissioners' Re-

27

port, from the Appendix of the Commissioners' Report, on page 26. Mr. Day, after speaking ahout the completion of the tunnel, with all its drifts, goes on to say:

"We have, to begin with, (page 19, 'Sutro Tunnel,') three thousand miners to carry to and from their work an average distance, from the mouth of the tunnel, of four and a half miles. These three thousand miners, divided into three shifts of eight hours each, give us one thousand men on each watch. Allowing ten men to a car, it would require one hundred cars to-convey the men into the tunnel. The train would occupy twelve hundred or fifteen hundred feet in length of the tunnel, and when the head of this train would reach the place of destination the rear cars would be quite an inconvenient distance back from the place of destination, thereby creating much confusion and more or less delay."

If the apparatus to convey the cars into the tunnel by wire rope Is so arranged that it goes along the main tunnel and along the drifts, do you see any difficulty in stopping that train at each shaft as it arrives, and letting the men off?

Mr. FOSTER. !Nb, sir; I think it can be arranged so as to operate with perfect facility.

Q. With perfect facility. Then there would be no such emergency arise as is supposed here by Mr. Day, of a train twelve or fifteen hundred feet in length, from which a thousand men would have to get at once. They would, however, be allowed to get out at their respective stations, and there would be no confusion ?

A. Well, it would depend entirely upon the facilities that are provided — upon whether facilities are provided for switching off the cars at the proper stations. I should think the men ought to be left directly at the drifts leading to the different mines.

Q. Now, Mr. Day goes on to say:

"At this point the miners' greatest trouble begins, their respective stopes and places of work being far above them. They commence to climb the ladders, and go up various heights, many from five hundred to one thousand feet. They arrive at the place where their day's work is to be done in an exhausted condition, positively unfit and unable to do a day's work."

Provided these men go in a railroad train and arrive at their respective stations, and then this apparatus, which it is proposed to apply, hoists them up, will there be any difficulty? Will there be any difficulty in hoisting these men up on the empty cage, to any point desired, by lower-

28

ing ore down on the other side, by having a counter-balance of say one or two tons ?

A. They can hoist the cage up as far as the pulley is fixed.

Q. Supposing that pulley be fixed near the top?

A. Well, then, they can be hoisted up to that level.

Q. Do you see any difficulty (as is done now from above, in giving signals to those below) in signalling the brakeman where to stop?

A. I don't see any — no, sir. I think the apparatus ought to be made to work with proper arrangements.

Q. Then the men do not arrive in an exhausted condition. They go up very comfortably. They go up the same as they go down now.

A. Well, I don't know about that. They can go up as high as that pulley is established. If they have to go any higher, of course they have to climb.

Q. Well, suppose they have those pulleys established at the top?

A. They can go as high as that.

Q. They could be landed at any station?

A. I don't know of any particular labor that would exhaust them. Of course you suppose that men are there to operate the machinery, and men are there to put on the loaded cars to act as counterpoise.

Q. Precisely. This apparatus, then, which one man will "work, would take the place of a ponderous steam-engine, would it, think you, general?

A. Well, I do not know whether it would entirely dispense with a small engine. I have my doubts upon that point.

Q. What obstacles are there?

A. I think there may be emergencies which would require some power there, but to what extent I cannot say.

Q. You have stated that they take fifteen hundred pounds of ore in their cages now, and hoist it up; they certainly can lower that much ?

A. I wouldn't like to say that I am perfectly sure that

29

that would work without additional power. I think it will, but I see there are many circumstances that would arise where you would want a little power.

Q. Well, supposing you put in a load here of, say, three thousand pounds on a car, against an empty car here, (three thousand pounds and a car against an empty car,) would that go down with immense velocity?

A. It would go down with very great velocity. It would depend upon the height.

Q. Supposing you put three thousand pounds in here, and ten men in here that would weigh fifteen hundred pounds, wouldn't it go with immense velocity, with fifteen hundred pounds over-weight on the other side?

A. "Well, if you let it go fast, it would go very fast.

Q. Would there be any difficulty in making that go at any required speed?

A. The trouble would be in controlling the machine. You cannot stop such a moving body immediately. You cannot let it go too fast, because, if you do, you carrot break it up sufficiently quick when it gets to the bottom. The motion must be such as to permit you to stop it a moment's notice almost.

Q. Do you think five hundred feet a minute would be too great a speed to stop ?

A. No, sir.

Q. They could do that conveniently, could they ?

Q. Then, according to this, the brakeman here would take the place of all these engineers and firemen on top, and would supply the place of all the steam power that is up there, or nearly all; that is, after this arrangement is put in operation?

A. Yes, sir; provided no additional power is needed here.

Q. I will read on further:

" The timbers used in the various mines are to be conveyed to their respective destinations by the same tedious, slow, and expensive routes ; expensive, because time in this country is money — in fact, the most expensive commodity that is employed in the working of these mines."

Can you perceive any difficulty in getting timbers in on this railroad, if you have cars constructed for that purpose, and hoisting them up by the same means that we have just described?

x- A . "Well, it is more difficult to move timber than it is to move men. The cars, if properly switched off, could not properly be brought in directly to the bottom of this shaft. Timbers would have; to be moved by hand a certain distance at least. They would have to be unloaded from the cars.

Q. Would they not, on the surface, have to unload it from the cars, and load it on the cage, in taking it down to the mines ?

A. Well, in surface working the teams are generally driven up very close to the shaft, the timbers are run in, and the cage is lowered directly in the shaft. Here the cars stop some distance off, necesarily, because the branch tunnel would not be directly under the shaft. It then has to be conveyed in by a drift on the bottom of the shaft.

Q. In delivering timbers on the surface, are they not generally put into a place for storing, and taken out when required, and then framed first?

A. Yes, sir. .

Q. Well, then, they will have to load them at a time when they will be required?

A. Yes; but they usually have them in shops adjoining for the machinery; and they have little cars there with which they can take them right to the mouth of the shaft.

Q. Will there be any difficulty in running under the place where you put them in the cage ?

A. There would be more difficulty than on the surface, on account of the confined space. It will be more difficult to have a place of size enough to admit of all this carriage.

Q. I don't mean to say that these timbers are to be stored at the bottom of the shaft, but that they are to be conveyed in when required — two or three sets put into a cage, and carried to the place of destination. That wouldn't require much space, would it?

31

A. I should think it would.

Q. It would require some space?

A. You cannot carry timbers through a long, li arrow drift easily.

Q. You would have to have a chamber at the bottom of the shaft?

A. Yes, sir; it would be more difficult than conveying it from the surface.

Q. How much additional expense do you think it would be per thousand feet. Have you any idea?

A. Well, I should think it would cost twice as much to carry it and to load it.

Q. Have you any idea how much it costs to carry it from the carpenter's shop to the shaft?

A. It would cost very little. They load it directly from the cars, usually, where they have that arrangement, as at the Ophir, with the shops close by the engine-house.

Q. Do you think it costs a dollar a thousand feet?

A. I have no idea, sir.

Q. In running the men in through the tunnel, at what rate of speed do you think that railroad could be operated?

A. I think it could be run eight hundred feet a minute.

Q. Eight hundred feet a minute?

A. About eight or nine mites an hour. About nine

•i i

miles an hour.

Q. Our calculation was ten miles an hour; that comes close to your figures.

A. Pretty nearly that.

Q. Then, according to that, how long would it take to run these men in five miles?

A. About half an hour.

Q. About thirty minutes?

A. Yes, about thirty minutes.

Q. About thirty minutes to run them in. I said from the point where they are left they could be hoisted to their place of destination at nearly the same rate as they could be sent from the surface down below?

A. Nearly the same; yes, sir.

32

Q. How many men can they lower at a time?

A. Ten men, I believe.

Q. How long does it take ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Is that on a single cage, general, or a double cage ?

Mr. FOSTER. Well, I think that is on a double cage; although they can crowd more on that. They cannot get ten men on a single cage.

Mr. SUTRO. They can get on about six.

Mr. FOSTER. Well, there were five on when. I went down, and they were squeezed nearly to death.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, I know they squeeze these, men harder than they do you.

Mr. FOSTER. I don't see how they can get on more than five. There is nothing around the cage; you have to hold to the bars. I don't know how many they carry.

Mr. SUTRO. You think about ten men ?

Mr. FOSTER. Five on a cage; they may carry more. Yes, ten men.

Q. Ten men ?

A. I don't know how many they will carry, but I should think five as many as could go down on a cage safely.

Q. In lowering men, do they run the cages as fast as they do in lowering rock ?

A. I believe not; no.

Q. How long do you think it takes to lower a gang of men two thousand feet deep, and have the cage come back and hoist out another gang? How long will it take to have the cage go down with ten men, and bring ten up, at the speed run at in lowering men ? I mean including the delays, and having the men get on and off below and hoisting ?

A. I should think it would take ten minutes.

Q. Ten minutes for a round trip to a depth of two thousand feet?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, supposing these three thousand miners were

33

all to go clown in one shaft, (I only suppose a case now,) there would be —

A. I think that I have got that too finely estimated.

Q. Well, we will say three thousand men are employed in three shifts : one thousand in a shift, of eight hours, duration. It would take them, according to your figures, one hundred trips to lower a thousand men in one shaft and hoist out another thousand. They only lower them when they change shifts; consequently, when you lower the one thousand down the other thousand comes up. Ten men in ten-minutes gives us for the whole thousand men just a thousand minutes. It gives us about seventeen hours to do it in, if we are doing it all in one shaft. Now, supposing these men are divided among ten shafts, (you have reports here from seven different superintendents ; we will call it ten deep shafts,) it would, take an hour and^seven-tenths to get the men down and up. That is what it would take, general, is it? Have you followed my figures?

A. Yes; I tried to.

Q. Well, you see here are a thousand men. It takes a hundred trips to lower them down, because ten men go in a trip. Is that correct?

A. Yes. Very good.

Q. Then, at ten minutes a trip, it gives us a thousand minutes.

A. Very good.

Q. A thousand minutes is sixteen hours and sixty-six one-hundredths of an hour. It would take that if we had but one shaft. But supposing there are ten shafts — at 16 T% hours it would

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Call it seventeen hours. It don't make any difference.

Mr. SUTRO. I might as well give these figures accurately. If that is divided among ten shafts it would give an hour and sixty-six one-hundredths of an hour. to lower down the quota in each shaft. By the tunnel, as we have just shown, they can be carried in in thirty minutes.

Mr. FOSTER. Carried in in thirty minutes? 3

34

Mr. SUTRO. Thirty minutes, sir.

Mr. FOSTER. Well, then you have to bring the others out.

Mr. SUTRO. They will come out. They come out at the same time that the others go in. We have a continuous string of cars going in and out all the time.

Mr. FOSTER. Well, the men in there when the others leave —

Mr. SUTRO. Well, it will take another half hour; call it an hour. Now, to take in all the men it would take seventeen hours — and to take them out — in the old way. Mr. Day says time is an expensive commodity. That is what I thought.

"Suppose a cave is threatened in some one of the most distant or inaccessible mines"

[I am reading right on where I stopped]

"A^car load or two of timbers, immediately and judiciously used, might and often does, prevent a disastrous cave. By the present mode of working in such a contingency as the above, the miner would send his order up, and in a very few minutes the return cage would bring the desired timbers, and in a few minutes more the timbers would be in place, and the threatened disaster averted. How would it be in working through the tunnel? The miner would first give his order for timbers, the order conveyed down the ladder, probably 1,000 feet, to reach the. tunnel, then out of the tunnel a distance of four or five miles to the carpenters' shop at the mouth of the tunnel; the timbers procured and sent by return cars to the foot of the upraise, then raised by some as yet unexplained process to the point of danger or trouble."

We have already explained how to bring the timbers in on the cars. Do you see any difficulty, General, in a man coming down by the method proposed into the tunnel, and going to a telegraph instrument, which is supposed to be stationed at the bottom of the shafts, telegraph out to the mouth of the tunnel, and tell them what to send in? Do you see any difficulty about that?

A. None, whatever, with the proper apparatus.

Q. Well, then, it would take thirty minutes to send that timber in ?

A. Yes, sir; besides the loading.

Q. It wouldn't take long to hoist it up there?

A. Well, it would take time. I don't pretend to say how long it would take.

Q. It would take a little time. And this, "as yet unex-

35

plained process/' we have explained here a little while ago. [I am reading again from Mr. Day's statement :]

" In this way hours might elapse before the much-needed timbers would arrive, and then they would probably arrive too late to prevent great damage."

Well, we have disposed of that part already.

"Another disadvantage in working "

Mr. SUNDEBLAND. I would like to have the General's answers to any questions that are proposed.

Mr. SUTRO. General, do you consider that disposed of?

Mr. FOSTER. I don't understand exactly what question was asked.

Q. I did not put the question. I will put the question, however, now. I simply read. I will make a question. Mr. Day here states that "hours might elapse before the rnuch-ne'edecl timbers would arrive." Do you think that hours would elapse before they could be brought in through the tunnel?

A. Well, I wouldn't like to express myself with regard to the accuracy of that statement. It is perfectly evident that it will take longer (in my mind) to bring the timber in from the mouth of the tunnel, than it would to lower it from the workshops above by the shaft. I cannot pretend to say, without a great deal of calculation, how much longer it would take, but it would evidently take longer, because in this case you have to bring it five miles, while in the. other you lower it, say two thousand feet, right down, at railroad speed. There is the difference of two thousand feet against five miles.

Q. In one case it would take ten minutes to lower it; in the other case it would take thirty minutes?

A. No, not ten minutes. Two or three minutes.

Q. Well, say two or three minutes. In the other case it would take 'thirty minutes to bring it in?

A. Loading and carrying to the bottom of the shaft, yes.

Q. Let me ask you another question, General. If a cave is threatened in the mine, it would probably require five

or ten thousand feet of timber. How much could you carry at one load down in a cage ?

A. Well, that I do not know.

Q. It is difficult to tell. It would take a number of trips, however?

A. You could take down just as much as you could pile into the cage, and as much as you could attach.

Q. Well, let us calculate on that once ?

A. Certainly, the trips can be made very rapidly. They can run the engine a thousand feet a minute. You can run the cages up and down, and take the timbers down very fast.

Q. Well, you have got continually to be sending the cages up and down ?

A. I do not know the particular process of sending timber down, whether they put it in cages or sling it*

Q. They send it down on cages. That is the process, is it not Mr. Sunderland?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUTRO. A dozen trips would take a good while?

Mr. FOSTER. They might rHin a cage up and down in one and a half or two minutes with timbers.

Q. Do you see any difficulty in running in a large quantity of timber in the tunnel?

A. No. You can load as many cars as you want, or you can have cars ready loaded if you choose. As many cars as you take, so much timber can you take. You can take so many car-loads.

Q. Do these caves come very suddenly in mines, or do they come gradually ?

A. I do not know about that.

Q. You have not examined into that. They generally tell a day beforehand when there is going to be a cave; that is ray experience; the timbers commence gradually to give way. I will read again from Mr. Day's report, where I left off:

"Another disadvantage in working the mines through the Sutro tunnel is, the mouth of the tunnel being located several miles farther from the timber

37

and lumber supplies, would necessarily increase the cost of the same two or three dollars per thousand more than when delivered at Virginia or Gold Hill."

Do you think, General Foster, that it would cost as much, to deliver tiraher from the mouth of the tunnel by floating it down the river, as it would to carry it from Virginia .City?

A. ISTo, sir.

Q. Mr. Day says it will cost more, because 'it is further off. Do you know at how much less price timbers could be delivered at the mouth of the tunnel than they could be at Virginia City?

A. No, sir; I do not know. It would be just as much cheaper as floating timber down is cheaper than carrying it on the railroad.

Q. Yes, sir. The head of Carson river is in the Sierra Nevada mountain, where the timber supplies come from?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know what timber costs at Virginia City — summer prices ?

A. I believe it was twenty-two dollars a thousand when I went there.

Q. I think you are mistaken, general; twenty-eight dollars a thousand. You are certainly mistaken?

A. I think I have my notes here, and they will show.

Q. It costs twenty-eight to thirty dollars?

A. Here it is; the cost of timber at the Ophir mine, July 21, was twenty-two dollars per thousand delivered. Last year paid $26 50. Year before paid $42. Contracts for lumber and wood are made every year with the persons who will furnish the cheapest. The contract price for this year, as I understood him —

Q. May I ask you, General Foster, whether that statement is made by the gentleman who makes these accurate statements in this report?

A. Captain Day; yes, sir.

Q. I find in a report of Mr. Raymond for 1867, some time ago: "Present price of timber and lumber for mining

38

purposes ranges from twenty-eight to thirty dollars a thousand for board measure." You cannot give us any other figures?

A. The timber of the year before was $26 50, according to Captain Day. The year before that it was $42. That is Captain Day's statement.

Q. You cannot give us any figures, however, about the cost for floating down the river. You haven't taken any figures of that?

A. I do not know how much it costs.

Q. It would be decidedly less, however ?

A. You would have to provide a flume for that purpose. They have flumes constructed near Carson; but they cost I don't know how much. I think it is stated somewhere in Mr. Clarence King's report.

Q. Mr. Clarence King's report is not here to-night. I will look for that, however, the next time. Well, we disposed of this statement, that this is several miles farther from the lumber supply, and would necessarily increase 1he cost two or three dollars per thousand.

"The foregoing are some of the practical objections to using said tunnel as an avenue through which to work the mines on the Comstock ; and, as a practical miner of more than forty years' experience in various kinds of mining, I make this assertion, that should the tunnel, with its lateral drifts, be

it. And why? Because the present mode of working is cheaper and more expeditious."

If that be correct, General Foster, there won't be much danger of Virginia City being injured, will there? Sap-posing this statement to be correct, that they won't use the tunnel?

A. I don't want to make any statement with Regard to that. It is, of course, a matter of opinion, and I would rather confine myself to what is actually known than give iny opinion.

Q. But supposing Mr. Day is correct, and that they won't use the tunnel, even if free of charge, when it shall have been completed, do you think it would interfere with Virginia City in any manner, if the tunnel would not be used for transportation ?

A. If it did not alter the status of the working mines, of course it would not affect it.

Q. Mr. Day now goes on to say what enormous prices he will have to pay to the tunnel company. It is too lengthy to read it all. He shows how much they would have to pay per ton to get this rock and ore out. Then he goes on to state how much it would cost to transport the miners in and out. He says it will cost $1,779,375 a year. The total for the transportation and taking the miners in and out would cost $1,779,375 a year. That is taking the transportation at $1 12J per trip?

A. Yes, a little less than what we took it. We took it $1 25, considering it five miles.

Q. And the balance he gets at by counting fifty cents for two hundred men in and out. Then he goes on to say there are sixteen million feet of lumber that have got to be taken in, which amounts to $37,500. The whole amounts to $1,816,875. Then he concludes this way:

" But thus far there is one redeeming feature in the contract; it is this: it is optional with the different mining companies whether they pay any or all of the beforementioned tariffs, for if they do not, work through the tunnel, they need not pay any of them." ,

Do you understand it is compulsory for them to work through the tunnel?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is a matter of construction of the contract altogether. I do not see that there is any propriety in asking that question. It is not a question for the witness to answer at all.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, we will take Mr. Day's statement for it. He says they need not pay for it unless they want to.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. No, we won't take his statement at all. We will take the contract.

Mr. SUTRO. I am reading his statement. Now he goes on to say ;

" We now come to a tax that is more arbitrary in its character. No mine on the Comstock lode can escape its provisions. It is what is termed the two dollars per ton royalty, which is intended to be a compensation for draining the mines, and is claimed to be a cheaper mode of drainage than that of pumping, the mode now in use. . I will now proceed to the consideration of that branch of the Sutro tunnel question, practically considered. These mines have been worked for about twelve years, more or less extensively."

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A

Mr. Day here speaks about paying a royalty of two dollars per ton. Do you know on what this royalty is to be paid, General Foster?

Mr. FOSTER. Paid on the ore that is taken out.

Q. On paying ore ?

A. Well, I am not intending to construe the law. They are to pay two dollars royalty on what is prescribed by the law. I think that is the law.

Q. There is no law about it ; it is a contract.

Mr. SUKDERLAND. All ores that are worked are sold.

" provided said sum of two dollars per ton on the ore extracted,

which said second party shall have reduced at some mill or other reduction works, or shall have sold."

That is the way it reads in the contract at that point. Mr. Day goes into more elaborate figures to show that it would cost $1,095,000 in royalty on the Comstock lode. It is at the bottomof page — .

Mr. FOSTER. Taking the daily yield as fifteen hundred tons?

•Mr. SUTRO. Yes, sir; he makes it out as $1,095,000. Were they taking any ore out of the Ophir mine while you were out there?

Mr. FOSTER. No, sir.

Q. How much would the Ophir mine have had to pay to the tunnel company in the last four years and a half, if they took out no ore?

A. I do not know how long it has been since they took out any ore.

Q. Well, say since their new shaft was started?

A. Well, I suppose they would pay no royalty while they took out no ore.

Q. How much would the Ophir company have paid the tunnel company since they started their shaft, which was started, according to the statement given here in Mr Raymond's report, on the 18th of August, 1867, (he states here on the 18th of December: "the old mine and shaft were abandoned sixteen months ago, since wMch time work has

41

been progressing on the new shaft, without, however, striking any ore.") They have not struck any ore since.

A. They would have paid nothing, as I understand it.

Q. "Well, supposing the tunnel would have offered the Ophir company drainage and ventilation without contributing one single dollar to the tunnel company while they were hoisting out the waste rock to the surface, would you consider that it would have been an advantage to that company to have had the tunnel in?

A. "While they were sinking this shaft?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Well, while they were sinking the shaft it would have been no advantage to them except as drainage.

Q. Supposing the tunnel had been finished at that time when they commenced constructing that shaft, and the drift had been run from the tunnel, and they had sunk a bore-hole, as. they bore oil wells, and connected it with the tunnel, wouldn't it have completely drained their mine, and given them ventilation at the same time?

A. It would have drained the shaft probably. I don't know about ventilation, because this hole might have become choked up so as to prevent the entrance of air.

Q. Would not the water passing through there make some ventilation'?

A. I do not know that it would.

Q. Supposing the hole was large enough, so that it would not be quite full of water?

A. If traps should occur in the hole there would be no passage of air.

Q. Could they not be removed, General? Is there any obstruction in the way?

A. Weil, a small drill hole would hardly aid much.

Q. Call it an-eight inch -hole?

A. An eight-inch hole would make it.

Q. General ISTegley, are you familiar with the oil wells in Pennsylvania?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Q. How large are they?

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A. They range from four to ten inches.

Q. Is there any difficulty in making a ten-inch hole?

A. Not the slightest.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. What kind of material are these holes bored through, General: ground that don't swell or retains its position?

The CHAIRMAN. Well, it is quite variable. They have to case most of them. The first four hundred feet are through variable rock; then they strike sandstone. They strike the first, second, and third sandstone rocks, which comprise the formation, between there and the depth of a thousand feet.

Mr. .SUNDERLAND. We have a clay there that nothing withstands the expansive power of it.

Mr. SUTRO. Is there any difficulty in driving pipes down those bore-holes?

The CHAIRMAN. No, sir.

Mr. SUTRO. There could be no difficulty if we drive a pipe down, General Foster.

Mr. FOSTER. With a sufficient sized hole, I think there would be no trouble about the passage of air.

Mr. SUTRO. General, at our last examination it was shown that the Ophir company collected semething like $800,000, that they had spent $423,000 in prosecuting the work on the, shaft, and had erected machinery to the cost of $173,- 000. Now, supposing that bore-hole had been down, so that the men would not have been hampered in working with water in the bottom, they would not have been bothered in pumping and being flooded. Do you think that that shaft could have been made at less cost?

A. The tunnel completed?

Q. The shaft, provided the tunnel be completed, sir?

A. Yes, sir; I think it could .have been done at less cost.

Q. According to Mr. Day's figures it has cost them $178,- 000 to make the shaft and the drifts. Do you think that this shaft could have been made for less money, less than $178,492 20, provided that bore-hole had been put through

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and the shaft sunk, under the facilities that would have furnished?

A. Yes, sir; I think it would.

Q. Supposing this bore-hole had heen put in, General, and an accurate survey made, and no machinery at all erected on the surface, do you think it feasible to have constructed that shaft from the bottom, going up, without any machinery at all?

A. It could have been .done.

Q. Then it would have come down simply to the labor of the men?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the powder used, without any machinery whatever ?

A. You say without any machinery whatever. That would be impossible, because everything that you use is a machine. Machinery for lowering might have been used,

Q. Steam machinery, I mean ?

A. You have got to have this machinery for lowering.

Q. Yes, sir.

A. It wouldn't be necessary to have the steam-pumping machinery that they now use.

Q. Mr. Day goes on to state that there is no water in the mine, that there is almost a dry fissure, arid he says it is a dry country, etc. I don't want to go into this pumping just now, about the quantity of water in the Comstock lode. I will go from that for the present. I will come back to that by and by:

"As a ventilator, this tunnel, if finished, would amount to just what a connection between any two or more mines would — no more and no less. Neither one could possibly be made to ventilate any exploring or prospecting work, for which some mode of artificial ventilation, either by patent blower, air-pumps, or some other more efficient method, is necessary,"

I think, General, in your report, you state that the mines' may be ventilated by having two shafts which exist on the vein connected by drifts, so that the air may go down one and come up the other through the draught?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That you know; you have seen that?

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A. Yes, sir.

Q. In what mine have you seen that, General?

A. Crown Point; Yellow Jacket.

Q. Crown Point and Yellow Jacket. Do you recollect, General, how far they are apart?

A. I do not recollect as shown on the map.

Q. Crown Point shaft, from this map here, and the Yel-lew Jacket shaft, I should judge are 600 feet apart. Do you think that is about it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. About 600 feet. In going down the Crown Point shaft they have a drift from both sides, and have connected their drifts, and thus they have created ventilation. How would you ventilate the shaft, say between the Imperial shaft and the next deep shaft to it, the Hale and RTorcross, which is a distance of 3,000 feet; would you think it possible to make a connection there at each level of a hundred feet, and ventilate a mine between those two points?

A. Well, it is feasible, certainly; they might run a drift that distance.

Q. "Well, do you think it is practical to do it, to run three thousand feet every time you sink down a hundred feet?

A. Well, the better way would probably be to sink a second shaft.

Q. That is the point I want to get at. The Comstock lode, I believe you stated, is something like 20,000 feet in length ?

A. Twenty-two thousand.

Q. Now, how many feet of that lode are actually productive in depth ; how many of the mines that have reported, leaving out the others, are productive in depth; let us take them as they come. Here is the Ophir; has the Ophif any ore in depth ?

A. The Ophir has none.

Q. The Gould and Curry; have they any ore in depth?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I beg your pardon; I will read from their own state-

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ment : that will probably give us the best idea how to get at it. I will take the Gould and Curry, and show you what he states in regard to it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Which report is that you have — Mr. Batterman's?

Mr. SUTRO. That is Mr. Batterman's Report, on page 33. To question 11, which is this:

" How long a time, at the present progress of working, will it require to exhaust all the profitable ore in the mine above the 600-foot level?"

He answers :

"There is no known body of ore existing above the 600-foot level, that could be profitably worked at the present cost of reduction."

No. 12 question:

" How long between the 600 and 1,000-foot level."

Answer.

"No paying ore has ever been found in this mine below 600 feet."

That is according to the statement of the Gould and Curry company. There is no ore below, consequently their work in depth is prospecting only. Is that so, General?

A. They have plenty of ore there. He says their ore is not profitable at the present reduction.

Q. Above the 600-foot level, or between the 600 and 1,000-foot level, the tunnel will come in at 2,000 feet. My question is this: Below the 600-foot level, in the Gould and Curry mine, would not all their work be of a prospecting nature simply?

A. Well, that is difficult for me to say. " It appears to be prospecting now. I wouldn't undertake to say that they won't discover ore there pretty soon.

Q. Well, I mean to say at the time you were there, when this statement was furnished you, they were simply prospecting?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, considering that, would they have to pay any royalty to the tunnel company in this prospecting work?

A. As I understand the law, they would not.

Q. Well, then, the Ophir company and the Gould and Curry company would have had the benefit of this tunnel

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lor nothing; that is to say, the drainage and ventilation would have paid nothing to the tunnel company?

A. While they were prospecting they would have had the benefit.

Q. The next company is the Savage. You see what his reply is to that question. Answer to question 11 :

"Six months' time, at the present rate of working, will exhaust all the profitable ore in sight above the 600-foot level."

Answer to question 12:

"Six months' time will also exhaust all profitable oreyn sight between the 600-foot and 1,000-foot level."

How long before the tunnel could get in?

A. In about three years.

Q. Well, in six months it would be exhausted, and all their work would be of a prospecting nature; they would pay no royalty. They can pay no royalty till the tunnel is finished; and they say in six months it would be exhausted ?

A. Well, they might find other ore again very soon.

Q. Well, we don't know but they must prospect for years ?

A. And they might strike a bonanza at any time. They have struck a bonanza now. That is an answer to it. They have prospected until this time, and now they have struck ore.

Q. They have struck the bonanza there. They didn't know that they would when you were there. Are they likely to strike bonanzas anywhere on the Comstock lode?

A. Yes, sir; anywhere.

Q. Do you think they are likely to strike it at very low depth?

A. Yes, sir; I found it so from different evidence that appeared.

Q. How long have the Bullion company worked their mine without finding any ore?

A. I do not know — a long time.

Q. How long do you think?

A. I don't recollect.

Q. They started when the other mines started. Don't

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you think it is ten years ? Don't you think they have been prospecting ten years?

A. I don't know anything about it. There is no use of my guessing at it.

*Q. Well, they have spent $1,144,500. That is what they have paid in assessments?

A. That is what they have paid in the Bullion?

Q. Yes, sir.

Mr. SESSIONS. Is that on the Comstock lode ? .

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, £ir. So the Bullion company would not have paid the tunnel company anything?

Mr. FOSTER. Not during that time; jio, sir.

Q. Now comes the Chollar Potosi company. Question No. 11:

"How long a time, at the present progress of working, will it require to exhaust all the profitable ore in the mine above the 600-foot level."

Answer.

"At present rate of working, three years will exhaust all the ore iu the mine — that is, all the ore that is known to exist."

It will be all exhausted by the time the tunnel comes in, will it not, General?

A. According to that statement.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. "All that is known to exist," he says:

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, sir. Answer to question 12 :

"Up to this date no ore worthy of mention lias been found below the 600-foot level."

So they would have to pay nothing there until they found something. Now, let us take the next one, which is the statement of Mr. R. N Graves, of the Empire company.

Answer to question 11 :

"All the available ore from the 600-foot level to the surface is exhausted, unless tine cost of milling be reduced,"

or transportation, I suppose, also. Answer to question No. 11:

"From the 600-foot level to our present lowest, or 1,300-foot level, .the vein in Imperial and. Empire mines, has been comparatively barren.""

"Would this company have to pay any royalty, General?

Q. But, then, after the ore is exhausted on the upper

48

level, would they, while they* are prospecting, pay any royalty ?

A. Not while they are prospecting, getting out no ore.

Q. Now let us take the next one. The next one is the Yellow Jacket company, but I don't find the statement; no matter. Now let us "come back to where we stopped, at ventilation. According to what we find in this report, a large portion of the Comstock lode is unproductive. Then we have not included yet the Sierra Nevada mine, the Utah mine, the Allen mine, the Mexican mine, all of them unproductive: the Ophir north mine, the Central mine, the California mine, the White and Murphy, the Best and Belcher, the Gould and Curry.

A. Yes, but I understand they were getting ore out of the Utah mine. They were when we were there, I think. They were sending some ore out of the Sierra Nevada,

'Q. The Sierra Nevada were getting some ore from the surface. They were not mining deep at all, they had given that up. There is not a single mine got any ore in depth. Consequently, all these gentlemen here, who complain about paying, would not have to pay a single dollar to the tunnel company, not a single dollar. But I am diverging, I want to go back to ventilation.

A. Well, these mines, which are quite unproductive, would of course, on all the ore they would get out.

Q. Yes, but they show it is exhausted, and consequently they would have to pay nothing, the work is only for prospecting; when they discover new bodies of ore, they have to pay. We would ventilate the mines, and then they could go on prospecting, as I will show. You state that it is not practicable to connect two shafts at a great distance apart, say three thousand feet ? •

A. I said it was practicable.

Q. You said it is feasible: yes, sir, practical. But it wouldn't be advantageous to do it? it wouldn't be advantageous to do it?

A. That I would not undertake to say.

Q. Would you say it would be so to connect shafts three thousand feet apart every one hundred feet of descent?

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A. I wouldn't like to make any statement about it. It might be advantageous under, certain circumstances.

Q. But what I want to get at is, is there any extraordinary difficulty in going three thousand feet without any ventilation? If you will permit me, I will read a statement -here from one or two of the mines in regard to the cost. Mr. Graves states on page 43 —

" The size of our drifts, usually 6 by 9 outside of timber, with good cool air, can be rim for $7 per foot in hard-blasting ground. The same ground, with the thermometer 110°, will cost $32 per running foot, or 59 cents per cubic foot."

Now, let me call your attention to another place here in the report of the Yellow Jacket mine, from Captain Taylor, on page 44. He states :

"The cost of drifting, like cost of sinking shafts, depends on character of ground and temperature of air. Have run drifts in hard-blasting, ground, (cool air, size full,) 6 by 9, for $7 per running foot, or 13 cents per cuoic foot of earth removed. Same ground, with temperature of air 107°, cost $30 per running foot, or 55 J cents per cubic foot: cost of labor of timbering induced in the above. With cool air made 3£ feet per day, with air at 107°, 20 feet per month."

Now, I want to ask you, General, provided they get down, over 1,000 feet, and would have to drift 3,000 feet, would you consider it an advantageous thing do, to make these connections, in view of these statements ?

A. No.

Q. It costs five times as much nearly to make those drifts. Well, to go back, then, to this question of shafts: how many shafts do you consider, General, on this whole length of 20,000 feet, ought to be sunk to make mining thorough and advantageous and systematic on the Corn-stock lode — what distance apart?

A. That is very hard to say.

Q. What distance apart do you think these shafts ought to be, in order to make mining intelligible, to explore that lode down to the tunnel level, to bring them near enough together, that they can make these connections without difficulty, say like the connection between the Crown Point shaft and the Yellow Jacket?

A. I wouldn't undertake to say.

Q. Would you consider that a reasonable distance? 4

50

A. My answer would be a mere guess.

Q. Would you consider that a reasonable distance between the Crown Point and Yellow Jacket?

A. Yes, a reasonable distance.

Mr. SHOBER. "What is that distance ?

Mr. SUTEO. Six hundred feet on the map. "Now, supposing, General, thirty-three shafts were down from the surface connecting with the tunnel, would you think that under those circumstances there would be any difficulty in making these connections?

A. None, whatever.

Q. Supposing, then, that thirty-three shafts were sunk on the whole lode, which are quite difficult to sink now, as we have seen in the case of the Ophir company, who have been four and a half years getting down twelve hundred feet — supposing these bore-holes were made connecting with the tunnel, and after the bore-holes were made, the shafts were made from below and also from above — don't you think that a perfect system of ventilation might be brought about?

A. Certainly.

* Q. Is the character of the bodies of ore in the Com- Btock lode continuous? Do they find continuous bodies of ore?

A. No. They find them separate, in different places in the vein.

Q. The drifts which have been made in order to reach this ore are very considerable, are they not?

A. Certainly.

Q. I have a statement here of the Gould and Curry company for the past year, which has just been published and came to me a day or two ago. The same gentleman who furnished you with the statement says here:

" 12,256 feet of drift have been run during the year."

ISTow, looking at that statement of a single mine drifting 12,256 feet, and the statements I have just read from the superintendent of the Yellow Jacket company and the superintendent of the Empire company, that it costs three,

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four, and five times as much to make these drifts in foul air as it would in pure, would it not be of immense advantage to the Comstock lode, and to the exploration of it, if they would have 33 shafts down so that they could make connections?

A. "Well, they could make air shafts by boring down to the different drifts.

Q. From what point?

A. From the surface.

Q. But would that supply ventilation where you have a bore hole, say ten inches in diameter; would that supply ventilation in making drifts at every level of a hundred feet?

A. Yes, sir; I should think it would. I should think ten inches ought to supply it. I think the pipes are eight or ten that now carry down the air.

Q. Supposing you had these bore holes down, how would you prospect your mine from these different points? Supposing you had shafts down, wouldn't it be easier to prospect for ores and find where these bodies are than by having shafts three thousand feet apart?

A. Of course it would be a1! advantage to have a shaft, and it is an advantage to have them at frequent intervals. I don't want to make any estimate upon supposition. It is impossible to say what advantage would arise one way or the other, I think. At least I am not prepared to say. There are a great many places on the lode where they don't want to prospect, and don't want a shaft.

Q. Why don't they want to prospect?

A. Because they know it is barren. They know it is barren, as things go, in the Bullion lode.

Q. How did they find it out?

A. By drifting from the shaft.

Q. They might have ore below it ?

A. That is very true.

Q. Supposing they had the Bullion shaft connecting with the tunnel, wouldn't it facilitate their prospecting operations?

A. "Well, I don't know. It is entirely hypothetical.

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Q. You don't know whether it would facilitate prospecting operations?

A. Well, there are certain places where the miner understands perfectly well, by certain signs, whether there is a fair prospect of meeting with ore. There are certain kinds of rock they would not think of going into.

Q. When you went over there, what statements did they make to you about the Savage mine. Did they think they would find anything below ?

A. Yes; I think their impression was they would find ore below.

Q. Did they think they would find ore very soon ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did you think about the Ophir mine. Did you think they were under the same impression, that they would find ore?

A. Yes; I think they are under the impression that they will find ore. There is no reason why they should not.

Q. Mr. Pay states as follows, on page 28 :

* "But the most important question of all, in this connection, presents itself, and as yet is unanswered, Does ore in paying quantities exist in the Corn-stock at these great depths? Taking a practical and most hopeful view of this question that the facts thus far developed will warrant, -I am compelled to say, there are grave doubts, notwithstanding Professor Richthofen came to the rescue, and assures us that by his scientific and theoretical vision he sees it, and there is no doubt but ore in paying quantities exists in the Corn-stock fissure, from the surface to untold depths. But gentlemen of his class have deceived us so often, that I am sorry to say, we miners have little faith in their scientific prognostications."

Here we have the statement of Mr. Day, that he don't believe that there is any ore below; and yet they are digging away at that shaft ?

A. No; he does not say that. He says there are grave doubts.

Q. Yes ; he says there are grave doubts. He is doubtful about finding ore. At that time they had not discovered the ore in the Savage mine. They may have better hopes now; I think it probable; but at that time they did not know anything about that. Mr. Requa states this, on page 39:

53

" How to get the ore from these deep levels is not the important question on the Comstock. To find the ore to hoist, that is where the insurmountable difficulty comes in. To solve that prohlem requires more brain, muscle, and money than all other operations along the vein put together. Show us the ore, even at the depth of 3,000 feet, and I will give you a pledge, sir, that we will never ask how we shall get this ore out."

Then he goes on to say, immediately after,

"In brief, the whole. tunnel project is impracticable, unnecessary, and totally uncalled for, except as a drain."

In another place the same gentleman says:

"The proposed adit, known as the Sutro tunnel, is not now, and never will be, a necessity to the lode, either for prospecting purposes, ventilation, or for the economical handling of metal-bearing material, waste, or debris, or as a means of entry or exit for men to the various mines located on the Comstock."

And then he goes on, in a very elaborate way, to show why it is not. Why do these men pronounce the tunnel as entirely useless and impracticable, when they in the same breath tell us that there is no ore below? They say they haven't got any ore, and at the same time they tell us they have to pay a royalty. At the same time they tell us, also, they are not going to use the tunnel, but are going to hoist out the ore; then why do they object to having the tunnel made? Do you think, General Foster, the tunnel would be useful for prospecting the Comstock lode?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I want to go back again to this method.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I would like to have the General answer these questions as we go along.

Mr. SUTRO. I think he has had time to answer.

Mr. FOSTER. I think you said the superintendents there pretend that the tunnel would be of no benefit to the Comstock lode.

Mr. SUTRO. Will you answer that question, General?

A. I saw these men a great deal, and talked with them a great deal, and they were men of capacity, great intelligence, and experience, and I gave them credit for being entirely honest; and I am convinced that they really thought they were writing the truth in what they wrote to us. Mr. Requa, in particular, struck me as being a man of large experience and very reliable — of excellent judgment. He certainly would not put his name to paper to anything that

54

he would not believe himself. I give him credit for that. As to Captain Day, I think he also is an excellent man, of a great deal of experience, and he struck me, as he will strike any body, as being a very reliable man. I think that he is perfectly honest in what he says. He believes what he says.

Q. Well, do you think he left anything out?

A. There are a great many things he might have put in. He answered our questions. We asked them certain questions, and they answered them.

Q. Do you think these people are mechanics, who say it is cheaper to pump out water than to let it run out itself?

A. That is a different thing. That is another question.

Q. They may be perfectly honest, and they may not be good miners. They may not understand anything about it ?

A. That is very true; but the impression those men gave me was, that they were reliable in their own sphere of business. "What they state here is borne out mostly by the notes that I took at the time. I asked the question repeatedly about the hoisting up. They went through what it would cost them per ton. They were working about 1,200 feet down, and the almost universal reply was, "fifty cents a ton." I suppose it will cost more as they go down. The general statement made, as we. went through the mines and talked with them confidentially, tallies very closely with what we have written here, when we wrote them afterwards, asking for their written statements upon general points.

Q. Do you think these people would have any fears of losing their situations if they would do anything contrary to the wishes of Mr. Sharon, the agent of the Bank of California ?

A. Well, I would be very sorry to suppose that they were so utterly dependent upon employment as to do that, because some of those men are men of decided character. One of the owners of the mines that I talked with a great deal, I believe, has aspirations for the United States Senate, and I take it for granted he is a man of character.

55

Q. Well, people might have aspirations for the United States Senate, and still not be —

A. No; I give them credit for being fair men.

Q. Who is that gentleman you refer, to, General?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Mr. Jones, I believe. He is a man who is very antagonistic to both the Bank of California and Mr. Sharon.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, do you think, General, if any one of those superintendents favored the tunnel he would be discharged? if they would come out and advocate the tunnel ?

The CHAIRMAN. I think, Mr. Sutro, that is simply a question of opinion. It has .no relevancy whatever to the laws of investigation.

Mr. FOSTER. I can answer it, if you wish. I asked some of them if they were hostile to the tunnel, and I was told by one — I think by more than one — that, as far as they were concerned, they were not hostile to it.

The CHAIRMAN. To whom do you now refer?

Mr. FOSTER. I refer both to Colonel Requa and Captain Taylor, of the Yellow Jacket.

Mr. SUTRO. That they are not hostile to the tunnel?

Mr. FOSTER. I understood them to say distinctly, that they did not put themselves in antagonism to the tunnel at all; that they understood us to come there to seek information, and to get their opinions honestly, and they were pledged to give them, just as they did give them. They did not wish us to consider them of the party that were hostile to the tunnel at all; and Jones was the same way. I think Jones was a little more favorable, perhaps, than either of the others. He carefully considered and weighed the chances of the tunnel being a benefit to the country.

Mr. SUTRO. Do you know why Mr. Jones did not send his statement to you ?

A. ~No. We expected an elaborate statement from him, but we did not get it.

Q. He had written one, in fact?

A. I don't know.

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Q. He told me so. "Why didn't he forward it?

A. I don't know.

Q. It was reported out there that his chance for the United States Senate would be slim if he did?

A. Well, I hope not. He is a very clever gentleman.

Q. I believe he is. We have never differed at all personally.

The CHAIRMAN. Bear this in mind, gentlemen, in_this investigation, that we shall be a number of evenings in hearing it, and a still greater number in reading it, and a still greater number in digesting it; and, if we are to arrive at conclusions, I think we want very direct interrogatories. I know it is an interesting subject to the gentlemen appearing, but I don't know how the committee feel about it.

Mr. SUTRO. General, I would like to ask you, after having shown at what rate ore can be lowered down to the tunnel level and delivered to the mouth of the tunnel, what facilities would exist there for getting water, first from the tunnel itself, and secondly from the Carson river?

Mr. FOSTER. Do you mean at the mouth of the tunnel?

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, sir. What facilities exist there for procuring water for the purposes of giving power for milling ores ?

A. Well, the only facility for power — the cheap facility — is the Carson river itself, which might be turned from its course and brought down to the mouth of the tunnel, giving a very considerable fall from that point down to the river. I have forgotten the exact distance, but it is given here.

Mr. SHOBER. What is the distance from the mouth of the tunnel to the river, General?

Mr. FOSTER. The distance is slight, in a direct line. It runs very near the mouth of the tunnel. I should think it is about a quarter of a mile down.

Mr. SUTRO. Probably a little over that, General?

Mr. FOSTER. It may be more than that. It may be a half.

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Mr. SUTRO. Nearly a mile.

Mr. FOSTER. Is it?

Mr. SUTRO. About a mile; yes, sir.

Mr. FOSTER. It is a gradual descending line all the way. About four miles above the tunnel is a rocky gorge, where the water might be dammed, so as to retain all the water that comes down from the snows in the spring, all that falls into the basin of the Carson. It was supposed another dam could be constructed farther back, and above Carson, to aid this, and prevent a larger overflow of the valley; but to carry out these schemes involves the construction of these dams, and the construction of a sluice from these dams to the mouth of the tunnel. It>also involves the extinguishment of the titles of the mill-owners to their water privileges, and that is an objection in the way. But there is no practical obstacle in the way other than that of the extinguishment of the rights that the mill owners have to the water power. In point of engineering, it can be done. There is no doubt about that in my mind. We did not make surveys so much as we would have made them, if this thing had come up prominently while we were there.

Mr. SUTRO. General, could that power be brought right to the mouth of the tunnel?

A. The water power?

Q. Yes, sir; the water power. Could those mills be erected right at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And do you see any difficulty of dumping the ore, which I believe we figure it costs twenty-five cents per ton to take from the mine and deliver at the mouth of the tunnel, directly into the mill?

A. No, sir.

Q. Well, according to the present mode, even under the figures given by these superintendents, it costs fifty-one cents to hoist the ore, and $1.50 to transport it. The ore could be dropped right into the mills?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you any idea how much it would cost to mill

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ore down there, with big water power and extensive works ?

A. No, sir. I could not say how much it might be cheapened.

Q. The Imperial company has given $4.50. They have a water power. They charge now how much ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The Imperial company has no water power.

Mr. SUTRO. They used to have. The Mill company have got their mill now. They used to have a water power — the Union Mill and Mining company has it now. Then it would be great economy, would it, General

Mr. FOSTER. It costs now, according to their statements, $12 a ton, including hauling.

Mr. SUTRO. That is' what they pay for crushing?

A. For milling.

Q. That is what they pay for milling to these people who own those mills?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, who own those mills?

A. Of course I cannot give the names. They are owned by different parties.

Q. Don't you think they charge as much as they can get?

A. They charge all they can get, of course.

Q. They get about $12 a ton?

A. Twelve dollars a ton for milling and transporting.

Q. Well, would you consider it a great economy to have these mills constructed at the mouth of the tunnel, and have the ore dumped right into the mills, without further transportation ?

A. It would be apt to cheapen it very much.

Mr. SUTRO. I would close with General Foster if Mr. Sunderland would want to proceed, or shall I keep on now?

Mr. CHAIRMAN. I should be glad, while I have in my mind the current of the examination, to ask some questions. General Foster, while listening to your replies, sev- , eral questions, which I desire to propound, originated in

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ray mind. One is in regard to the matter of ventilation, Is not ventilation effected upon a horizontal plane, providing you have two adits or shafts, with a motive power, passing in one way and out another?

Mr. FOSTER. On a horizontal plane? \

Q. On a horizontal plane; yes, sir?

A. You mean to sink two shafts.

Q. Supposing you had two parallel shafts, or one shaft divided by any partition whatever, and (in order to illustrate) a train entering and passing out, making a circuit, if you please, through two shafts, or through one divided by a partition in its center, would that not create a current, and consequent ventilation?

A. Yes, sir; any two shafts that are close together, and that can be connected below, will produce a current. It will go down one shaft and up the other.

Q. And although they may be upon a horizontal plane, the circulation is effected?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And after all ventilation is the result of friction, just as light is ?

A. Is the result of the motion of the air.

Q. Yes, as I say, the result of friction. Therefore, the comments made in the different reports relative to ventilation are not correct, so far as they theorize that ventilation may be effected mechanically, as required? In other words, you can determine the ventilation to any point in this shaft by obeying a certain organic law of nature?

A. Yes; but here is one thing to which I wish to call ^our attention: If you have two shafts, and connect them below, that produces a current of air in the most direct way, coming down one and up the other; but in drifting off in different directions to seek the ore, they have no currents of air at the ends of those drifts, which they call headings. "When you get down there twelve, or thirteen, or fourteen hundred feet, the air gets to be up to 110° or 112°. At those headings you have to force air in by tubes,

so as to blow on the men at work there. That has to be forced in by machinery.

Q. You direct me to another inquiry, which I propose to make. Taking the example which you have given, if the shaft or hole you might bore from above into these drifts were connected with a pipe, or a series of pipes, in these recesses, and terminated there, would there not be ventilation?

A. No, sir, not a bit. There must be a down-cast and an up-cast to produce the current of air. It don't go to the headings at all. It has to be forced there by machinery— that is, a regular blower.

Q. I think, General, I have not made myself intelligible. If those pipes were connected and hermetically sealed with the bore, and carried to a point a variation from the perpendicular in the most remote recesses, and there have its opening, it would be precisely as though the opening were just beneath the perpendicular shaft, would it not? In other words, the curvature of the shaft would not affect the expansion of the air and the draft you might create, so long as there was no fault in it?

A. And you think the air would come down this pipe

Q. ~No. I am imagining an opening from below. I am contemplating now that you are reaching the current of air that is introduced from this adit.

A. 'No. I don't think it would. The air don't suck into the drifts at all. I couldn't say in regard to that, because I had never tried the experiment; but I believe they told me invariably that they could not get any air with any of the connections they had made at the headings. They have winzes, connecting shafts, and everything of that kind. They have never been able to get the air out to the headings except by blowing.

Q. That is very true, because both their shafts are precisely the same thing. But supposing you had a horizontal adit, reaching to a given point, that was, say, 200 feet remote, or 500 feet from the perpendicular air-vent,

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and connected by a tube or pipes, would not that effect a perfect ventilation in the recess, a tunnel in or not?

A. Yes. The circumstances would not change with the tunnel. The draught is down and upward.

Q. It would accomplish precisely the same result, would it not?

A. I could not say with regard to that. We went into two tunnels, where we went in below and it was connected above. When we are in the direct line of a drift the draught is so strong that it will blow our candles out, but when we come to go into drifts, off from the main line of those draughts, we find it excessively hot and not a breath air — stifling, absolutely — a little ways off from the line of draught; I do not think in some cases it was twenty feet off' where we went, and there was not a breath of air, not a motion of wind — absolutely stifling with heat and want of motion. And I was told it was invariably the case, that the air sought the shortest and most direct channel, and that it did not effect a motion of the air in the confined spaces off to the right or left, spaces which are five feet wide and six or seven feet high; . and in all mines they have blowers driven by machinery, which cost ten or twelve dollars a day, in addition to all their connections, just to carry air to the headings where the men work.

Q. Another point in connection with the matter of ventilation : Would not the precipitation of water down this drain from the upper water levels, if carried by pipes into the recesses and out, lower the temperature and add moisture to the air ?

A. Water tanks to aid a current of air? It certainly would have a decided effect.

Q. We will imagine now that we have a tube connected with the bore. The water of the upper level is precipitated down this bore of drainage, and it is carried perpendicularly and horizontally and on an incline, as the drifts may require, and when it reaches a certain point it is allowed an opening: Would not the precipitation of the

62

water in there completely drain the mine and produce the same effect that a blower produces ?

A. Where it completely fills the tube, it wouldn't.

Q. Wouldn't it create a large current of air ?

A. Not unless you have an arrangement called a water-blast.

Q. Would not that be practicable ?

A. I believe they tried it upon the mines and didn't find it succeed; they didn't find it economical. And I think that this blower which they get made in San Francisco, and almost all the mines gel those blowers, is the most economical and the most effective. Of course it is matter of experience.

Q. My mind is not clear on that subject.

A. I don't think it would work quite as well as you think.

Q. General, what enters into the computation of the cost of reducing the low-grade ores? What enters into the sum total?

A. First, there is transportation to the mill, which averages all the way from zero to two or three or four dollars. It will average about $1 50. Then there is the handling and throwing it into the stampers, and the general course of the milling. The ore goes through the stampers and the settlers, and then it is united with quicksilver, and then it is removed from the settlers and squeezed, and then it is refined, to drive off' the quicksilver, which is afterwards saved. Then they get their ingot, which they send to the mint or sell. That is all the milling process. The ore runs from one machine to the other, and goes' through this whole process in the same mill, which requires water, and water is a considerable item of expense out there, on account of its scarcity. They have to pay pretty high for it — water for the milling and water for the boilers of the engines, in case you use steam.

Q. They have to pay a royalty for the water?

A. O, yes, sir; they pay very high for water; they pay • so much an inch.

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Mr. SUTRO. How much do they pay for water?

A. I don't know, sir. The Crown Point some of the

mines sell the water that they pump out for $500 a month. It is used in the boilers of other companies and in the mills too.

The CHAIRMAN. Then the cost of milling and the cost of water make up the chief expense?

A. With the wear and tear of machinery — yes, sir.

Q. And therefore it prevents ores of a lower grade than those which yield $20 a ton being made profitable?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What proportion do the low-grade ores bear to the richer ones in the excavations which you have examined?

A. I could not give the exact figures without some thought, but the quantity is very small, compared with the quantity of refuse rock — very small.

Q. That is in ores which would range from what ?

A. From $20 up. There are millions of tons of low-grade ores in there now, which could be taken out and worked with advantage, if they could work them cheaper.

Q. Then the chief value of the greater portion of the mineral wealth is not now utilized?

A. Yes, sir, I should say so.

Q. That is, the larger proportion of low-grade ores ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is it possible for any human mind to contemplate the extent of that wealth?

A. No, sir; it is not.

Q. Even from the explorations already made ?

A. There is an immense fissure-vein extending for miles, varying in width from 22 or 23 feet\ip to 500, and extending down to unknown depths. It may extend for miles in either direction from where it has been explored.

Q. From where it crops out ?

A. Yes, sir; there may be parallel veins which may prove very rich. The workings thus far have only extended down to about 1,500 feet.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It is more than that. When you say

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1,500 feet, do you measure from the Gould aud Curry crop-pings down?

A. From the top of the shaft. They are deeper than that in the Gould and Curry. They can work down as far as 4,000 feet; that is, it is supposed that they can, with the increase in temperature, as you go down, of about 1° in 55 feet. That, however, becomes a little less as you go very far down, one degree in 51 or 53. When you get to 4,000 feet it will become too hot to work; so they estimate that they can go down 4,000 feet. At that depth you get unknown values of ore.

The CHAIRMAN. They have not penetrated the earth to the depth of 4,000 feet in the Comstock lode?

A. No, sir.

Q. Therefore, it is merely by comparison ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q, Then it is your opinion that the richness of the lode may continue and perhaps increase at the greater depth ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Resulting from a dynamical disturbance; and the lode becoming more fixed and compact as you descend, and less liable to any solution, or action by the acids upon the surface, or the water, of course it would have greater solidity, would it not?

A. Well, there^ are a great many different views about that, whether this ore has been deposited by chemical agency, or by being thrust up, violently ejected, from below, or sublimated. You cannot tell exactly how that is. We only know that it is there. We only know that three of the richest bonanzas have been discovered very low down ; one while we were there, one afterwards, and one now. Crown Point was discovered, which they estimate to be worth $15,000,000, the rich body which they call bonanza. The Belcher has since discovered the same body running into their mine, which, I believe, they estimate worth about as much. And now the Savage, which at that time was working under difficulties, and was supposed to contain no ore, have discovered a rich body, so

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that all the indications point to the opinion which I entertain.

Q. Then, in a geological point of view, as a question of national importance, to determine the richness of the mines? and to pursue a systematic method by which that^can be attained, and cut oft' those experiments that are making in a fugitive manner, owing to limited capital, lack of experience, organizations fraught with jealousies, and perhaps a lack of skilled labor, would it not be of very great advantage to the country and to the world, as a scientific question, to determine the richness of those lodes at a great depth at the national expense?

A. Well, our opinion was unanimous that the value of this work as a prospecting work was beyond question, as far as we were concerned. Whether it is of sufficient national importance to justify its being carried on for that purpose alone we did not pretend to judge.

Q. As, a national question, a geological stand-point, to determine the wealth of the country in that mineral deposit, whether it wouldn't justify a very large expenditure on the part of the Government ?

A. I think it would in a certain way, in the best way ; but what that best way is, perhaps, would be the source of a great deal of controversy. I think the interests out there could be very well protected and furthered by the General Government, as it is the national interest. Whether this work, as a prospecting work, could be carried on at the expense to be involved, is a very serious question. There are some things that the Government could do, and could do well properly: as, for instance, the establishment of large reduction works for the reducing of ores at a cheap rate, so that the different mines all along the national transit can send their ores to them, instead of having to send them to England to be reduced. They send now from Utah to Swansea. !N"ow, if the Government could construct government works to enable the miners to have ores reduced as cheaply as they can abroad, (might not be as cheap, because labor would be higher, but cheaper than now)

5

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Q. Well, they would have transportation in their favor?

A. Yes, that would advance the national interest of mining very much.

Q. Isn't water the cheapest power?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Used in connection with this reduction?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there not in the volume of the Carson river, with the artificial improvements suggested by you in your former remarks,, sufficient to justify the establishment of works there upon a large scale, that might economically effect the reduction of those low-grade ores ?

A. I think there is water enough there to reduce the ores of the Comstock. I wouldn't undertake to say that there would be enough there to run a large establishment for a national work, although one might be established there, and, if necessary, branches might be established upon other streams where there was sufficient power, and still be on the line of the railroad. This one might be made the parent and the others might be made the branches. But there is water enough on the line of the railroads to answer all the purposes.

Q. Well, now, General, supposing it were possible, through economical arrangements and appliances, for the reduction of the low-grade ores, to work both the low-grade ores and high-grade ores, would it be possible, with the present conveniences of those shafts, to elevate both those ores at the same time economically? In other words, if they removed both the low-grade and high-grade ores with their present means of access to the drifts?

A. It would cost nearly as much to get out the low-grade ores as it would the high-grade ores.

Q. Then, might there not be an economy in removing those by a cheaper mode of exit, even supposing it profitable to raise the high-grade ores by the present method, even with the supposition that they might raise the high-grade ores by the present means, presuming they have the works established, and all the appliances and facilities for

67

*

their reduction, but without the ability to reduce the low-grade ores?

A. Well, I hardly know how to reply. The great mass of the low-grade ores is near the surface, comparatively speaking. They can get them out a little cheaper than they can those lower down in these richer deposits. It would cost just about as much, though, to get them out — $8 a ton — at the present prices. Whether that can be cheapened or not, I wouldn't undertake to say. The price of labor is kept up, as you know, by miners' unions, to four dollars a day in gold, and probably would not be reduced, and any effort to reduce it would meet with sturdy opposition. The only reduction in cost can be made by different modes of getting the ore out, and different machinery. I do not see the way clear for much reduction there.

Q. In putting my question, General, I had that in view. I took the basis of your calculation as to the means of removing the ore from the mines through this adit and the mouth of the tunnel. I had also in view your opinion as to the facility with which it could be reduced by water-power, and the economy with which it could be reduced. It appeared to me there was a very large reduction.

A. I think there could be a very large reduction made in reducing the ores.

Q. In the mechanical process?

A. After they are mined and got out. But I do not see, candidly, that the tunnel will much cheapen the getting of the ores out; that is to say, I think it will cost just about as much, and perhaps a trifle more, to run them out to the mouth of the tunnel by the method proposed; just as much, if not a little more, than to hoist up to the surface by the present machinery. Then you have got the comparison to be made, that from your shafts you have got to carry the ores to the mills, but you must recollect that that is down hill. In the other case you have got to pay a royalty, which just about onsets the advantage. As far as the mine-owners are concerned, they have got to pay so much money; then, unless you can very much cheapen the re-

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»

duction of the ore and the getting it to the mill, you would have no profit whatever. You must do that largely or make no money. We were not able to report upon that, because we could not find the proper reduction machinery suitable to the locality.

Q. Supposing that no other result was attained in the penetration of the mountain, the investigation of the lode in a geological point of view, than to determine the richness of the ore at that depth, and afford facilities for getting S(t a greater depth, equal perhaps to 5,000 feet, would that not justify an expenditure on the part of the Government of an amount equal to that that would be required to construct this tunnel, having in view the immense mineral wealth supposed to exist ill that region?

A. I could hardly answer that. That is a thing that I think you will have to judge of. I could hardly say that. I haven't the slightest doubt that it would be of very great value as an exploring work, and on all those points you refer to. This tunnel will strike all the different lodes in succession as they go out, and the drifting off will be easy, the. prospecting will be easy. It will be of great value, but with me the estimation that must be put upon it is a difficult one to make. I could hardly attempt to do it; and as for going down below the tunnel level, when the tunnel shall have been completed, the going below that level will cost just as much, in my opinion, with our means of getting ore out, as the other; that is to say, in either case you have got to establish, on that basis, a new hoisting arrangement, and the going down below, in either case, will be by new hoisting apparatus, extending all about that level. If the tunnel is there, all the engines will be placed on that level of course. If the tunnel is not there, a good many of the mines will go down a thousand feet farther before they establish their new hoisting station. Some of them intend to go 2,500 feet, and some 3,000 feet — the most of them 2,500 feet. But if the tunnel is to go on, they will all have to establish their new basis on the level of the tunnel, which

09

will be two or three hundred feet farther than the deepest mines they have got down now.

Q. But, of course, every additional hundred feet involves a loss of time and increased wear and tear of the machinery. It would double the loss of time, of course, in going 2,000 feet farther, and increase the expense of ventilation?

A. Yes.

Q. As well as increase the expense of raising the material ?

A. Well, I think, going from the tunnel level down, every item will about offset the one case with the other. If you hoist up to the tunnel level, you deliver it into the cars; in the other case you deliver it into a dump. Which is cheaper, to send it up the shaft or send it out the tunnel? The ventilation below will have to be forced; you will have to force the air down from that point just the same as though you were working from a new surface. The hoisting up will be just the same; the pumping will be just the same; everything will be precisely the same. The comparison can only be made, then, for the ore which is above the tunnel level; there is where the economy is to be obtained, if anywhere. I think, in going below, the expense in either case would be about the same. The difference in pumping would be merely to raise the water from the tunnel level up; in case of the tunnel, to discharge it out through the tunnel.

Q. You are impressed, from the statements made to you by the experienced miners and practical operators, that it is a true fissure vein, and that it is possible to continue to great depths?

A. Well, a good many of these mining superintendents had very little fixed opinion about the matter. They didn't reason about it much. When they came to an ore bonanza, they knew it was a true fissure down as far as that. They didn't speculate upon it much. I do not think they have the highest estimation of scientific men as a general thing, because they have been deceived out there, and they have had scientific men testifying before courts in direct

70

opposition to each other, and all that sort of thing. They are rather practical in their ideas. Some believe that it is a true fissure vein, and others do not. I do not think they have very fixed opinions upon it one way or the other, and we made up our opinion from what we saw and what we could see, and from what we could get from them, looking^at the whole subject in its broadest bearings, with all the light before us; and we one and all thought the same way precisely.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. There are two or three questions I would like to ask, in order to remove some impressions tbat may have been made here.

Mr. SUTRO. If I ask two or three questions more, how much time do you think you will require ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If it is desirable for the committee to adjourn now, and wait until the next meeting, I am willing. I think the chairman seems to be under some erroneous impressions about the manner of working the mines. That is all I want to show just now. Or, I can do it at another time.

Mr. SUTRO. I want to ask you, General Foster, whether you know how much timber there is consumed in the Comstock lode in a year?

Mr. FOSTER. No, sir; except by the reports.

Q. I find a statement here, in 1867, in J. Koss Browne's Report, who was commissioner on mineral statistics then, that they consumed 17,910,000 feet per annum ; and it has been stated in other places at 16,000,000 feet, which would be a pretty safe figure to take.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The consumption of timber depends upon the ore — bodies found. In some cases there is very little timber; in large bodies they use whole forests.

Mr. SUTRO. That is the general estimate; but taking that 16,000,000 of feet, which would make in ten years 160,000,000, and at $22 a thousand it would be $354,000 a year spent for timbers that go down in the mines. That would be in ten years $3,400,000, that they have expended for timbers that are now in the mines. How long do these

71

timbers last, with poor ventilation ? Do you know, General?

Mr. FOOTER. No, sir, I do not.

Q. Do you know whether there is, a difference between having good ventilation and poor ventilation as to the du-ability of timbers?

A. Oh, yes; there is a very great difference.

Q. What do you think is the difference, supposing the poor ventilation timbers last two years? With thoroughly good ventilation, how long do you think they might last?

A. They ought to last thirty.

Q. And supposing those mines in the Comstock lode were thoroughly ventilated, would it be an immense saving in replacing these rotten timbers?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Supposing^we take three years' timbers, leaving out what was put in previous to that. Three years' timbers would amount to a million of dollars?

A. Yes, sir. .

Q. And supposing, instead of lasting two years, they could be made to last three or four times as long — anyhow it would be a saving of some hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, would it not?

A. It would, upon your supposition; yes.

Q. Yes; upon the supposition that you ventilate the mines thoroughly. It is said here there are 3,000 miners there: I don't know whether that is correct or not. But supposing there are 3,000 miners there, employed at the rate of §4 each a day, that is $12,000 a day in wages?

A. Yes. There are not as many miners as that.

Q. I don't suppose there are.

A. There are not over 2,000 of them.

Q. Probably not over 2,000. But they have all been figuring upon 3,000, and I take that as the basis of my calculations. I find rt stated here that it costs from four to five times as much to make drifts with the thermometer as high as 110° as it would with an ordinary atmosphere, say of 75° or 80°. According to that, a man only does about

72

from 20 to 25 per cent, of the work he could do in a cool atmosphere?

A. It would appear so from that. ,

Q. Taking all the mines together, the drifts, etc., right through, what do you think would be the average increase in the capacity of the men for doing their work if the ventilation were perfect ?

A. As compared with a temperature of 110°?

Q. No, sir; not with a temperature of 110°, but as it exists now, which is stated to be from 90° to 110° ?

A. Between the present condition and perfect ventilation ?

Q. Or, to put my question more clearly, supposing the thermometer were reduced to 75° instead of being from 90° to 110° as it is now, how much percentage additional would you get in labor out of the men? Give us your opinion — a general idea?

A. Well, it would be merely a guess.

Q. Should you think they would do two-thirds as much work at this high temperature as they would with a low one?

A. I don't think they would do half as much.

Q. You don't think they would do half?

A. No.

Q. "Well, suppose it is 50 per cent.

A. But I don't think it is possible to get perfect ventilation in the mines at all.

Q. But suppose they are pretty thoroughly ventilated. Suppose, for instance, there were 25 or 30 shafts down the Comstock lode, and all connected, don't you think the heat would be very much reduced?

A. I do not see how it could be. There is a certain law governing the heat, as you go down into the earth.

Q. Yes. But would not a current of air -going constantly through 25 or 30 shafts gradually reduce the atmosphere to an ordinary temperature?

A. No, sir; it would not be possible. The heat would be higher down in the earth than it is on the surface.

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Q. Supposing, however, that these drifts were open, and would remain open, and .were ventilated as thoroughly as I stated, wouldn't the. temperature gradually become reduced above the tunnel level, supposing each one of these 25 or 30 shafts to be connected with the tunnel?

A. It would not be.

Q. But that is the experience in other mines?

A. Take two shafts, going down side by side, and the up-cast air in one comes up as hot as steam.

Q. Yes, it does now. But supposing the connections made between all the different mines, and remaining open some time, say a whole year, with perfect currents, of air going through? ,

A. I don't think you could ever get over the effect of the heat.

Q. You don't think the heat would be reduced at all?

A. Unless you upset the law of nature, in regard to the increase of the heat as you go towards the center of the earth.

Q. I am not speaking of getting below the tunnel level. I mean if you connect these shafts above the tunnel with the tunnel, and leave them open, with perfect currents of air passing through them all the time, do you think the temperature would be reduced.

A. It might be reduced.

Q. That is exactly what I wanted to get at.

A. I understood you to want me to admit that it would be reduced to that on the surface.

Q. No, sir. If the temperature were 110°, as it stands now, and currents of air were going up one shaft and down another, and through the tunnel and out the shafts, do you think that that temperature of 110° would be reduced to some extent?

A. It would be, to some extent.

Q. Well, to what extent, do you think?

A. That is impossible for me to say.

Q. "What is your idea of it, after twelve months of this perfect connection?

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A. Well, I am a Yankee, but I am not very good at guessing.

Q. Have you any opinion about it at all; do you think it would go down to 80° from 110°?

A. It is no use for me to hazard a conjecture.

Q. Let us suppose, without your answering the question, that it would go down to 80°, and the capacity of the men would be increased 25 per cent, do you think that is within the scope of possibility?

A. Oh, yes; certainly.

Q. "Well, then, that would give an additional capacity of men of $3,000 a day. Three thousand miners, at $4 each a day, is $12,000 a day, and if we get 25 per cent, additional labor, we get $3,000 a day. You get now but 75 per cent, of the labor capacity; with this ventilation perfect you would save 25 per cent., or $3,000 a day. That's an enormous item — a very large item. That is all I wanted to call your attention to.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. General, I would like to ask you a single question, and I won't ask but one. At the present rate of sinking the shafts upon the Comstock, keeping in view the difference between the level of the top of the shafts and the Gould and Curry croppings, from which point down to the tunnel it measures so man}^ feet, won't all the principal shafts be below the level of the tunnel before the tunnel can be constructed?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is all I will ask now.

Mr. SUTRO. May I be permitted to ask another question? Won't a tunnel open a new basis of operations at a depth of 2,000 feet?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there anything known about the Comstock lode below that depth of 2,000 feet? Has any body ever seen anything below it?

A. No, sir.

Q. Is it not a virgin vein? -Nobody has ever known anything about it below there.

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Mr. SuNDEfcLAND. Well, everybody knows that.

Mr. FOSTER. I don't know about its being a virgin vein.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, it would open a new basis of operations at 2,000 feet ?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I simply wish to sho% Mr. Chairman, that this speculation of drainage and ventilation above the level of the tunnel is wholly unnecessary, because, before the tunnel can get to these shafts, they will all be down, and the mines all worked out below the level of the tunnel.

Hearing On Tuesday Evening, Feb. 20.

Mr SUNDERLAND. Mr. Sutro, I believe you are through with Gen. Foster, are you not?

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, I would say that I would like to ask a few more questions of Gen. Foster when Mr. Sunderland shall have finished. There are some points that I skipped over. I will reserve my questions.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If any questions have been omitted I would prefer having them asked now, so as to make mine a cross-examination.

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose, Mr. Sutro, you had better go on.

Mr. KENDALL. I suppose Mr. Sutro has got a right to make a re-cross-examination ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. No, sir; I think not. If he has omitted any questions, let him ask them now, with reference to those points which he forgot.

Mr. SUTRO. Very well. I find here, Gen. Foster, in the statement made by Mr. Graves, the superintendent of the Imperial mine, in answer to question number 7, on page 43, he says:

" The cost of raising the water for the past year is difficult to get at. Not having any pumps, it was raised to the surface with a tank, which we run only when absolutely necessary."

When you were over there, General Foster, did you visit the Imperial mine?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes.

Q. Did you see them hoist water there ?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you see them raise water in a tank anywhere?

A. £To; they were not raising water when I was there.

Q. Do you know that there is any difference between the raising of water by a tank and by a pump?

A. I should think it was a slower process.

Mr. SESSIONS. I did not understand the answer.

Mr. FOSTER. It is a slower process. They lower a tank,

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jast as you would lower a bucket into the well, and then raise it up by means of machinery, the same as you would raise a_bucket out of a well.

Mr. SUTRO. If you have a given quantity of water to raise out of a mine, you have to exert a certain force. Does it make any material difference whether you pump it by a pump or hoist it out by a tank?

Mr. FOSTER. Well, of course it makes a material difference. One process is much slower than the other, and requires a greater-expenditure of power.

Q. How much do you think is the difference in power?

A. Just one-half.

Q. One-half?

A. I believe that's it. In pumping, the pump-rod is made to act as an aid in forcing the water up. The whole weight of the pump-rod is exerted to force the water upward; and then to move the rod in the opposite direction they have a balance-bob; so that the total expenditure of power is much less than would be required if the water were raised directly by the power that is applied.

Q. How much friction is there in the pipes — say, for instance, if you raise water a thousand feet. There is a certain friction takes place of the water against the sides of the pipe; do you know how much that amounts to in pumping?

A. I haven't my books of reference, and I do not recollect.

Q. In hoisting water in tanks there is no friction. You simply hoist. There is no such friction as I have described in the pipes. There is no^friction as in the pipes ?

A. jSTo friction as in pipes.

Q. Wouldn't that nearly counterbalance the difference in the power expended ?

A. I cannot say with regard to that.

Q. Well, to lift a given quantity of water, for every foot it takes so much hoisting-power. I believe the rule is that a power that will hoist 33,000 pounds a foot high in one minute is accounted one-horse power?

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A. Yes.

Q. Well, that power you get at the engine. Now, if you pump water in pipes, certain friction takes place, and you lose a certain amount of power. You don't get that horsepower which you apply, under the rule I have just given, at the engine. You do not get that full power in raising water, while if you raise water in a tank no such friction takes place at all. You couldn't give us any figure on making a fair comparison between the two?

A. Not immediately. I could in a short time.

Q. Yes,. I suppose so. It is one of those questions, merely, where you take certain established rules into consideration ?

A. I should look to the force required by a given description of machinery.

Q. I find that Captain Day states, on page 30, (I have before touched upon that subject, but was interrupted by General BANKS,) that the

"present flow of water, September 10, 1871, is 5 inches. Decrease in amount of water at 700-foot level, from Jane, 1870, to date, 72.23 per cent."

Do they find as much water when they suik down outside of the lode as when they cut the lode, General ?

A". Well, I don't know that I can answer that from my acquaintance with the history of mining in the Comstock lode. It depends upon which side of the lode you sink your shaft. If you sink it in the east-country rock, I should think you would be nearly as liable to meet with water as in the lode itself, although I cannot say absolutely whether that is so. The east-country rock is porphyritic and is seamy ; but in the west-country rock, being of a hard, granitic formation, very little water would be encountered.

Q. How do you account for the fact, General, that when they make drifts from these shafts and cut a vein, they strike large bodies of water after cutting the clay which encases the vein?

A. Well, that has been explained in this way : the clay seems, as it were, to form bowls or reservoirs of water, and when these reservoirs are tapped or penetrated, of course

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the water all runs out; the bowl empties itself. When that is pumped out, there is no more water in the mine until you reach another reservoir.

Q. Do you know of any such reservoirs of note in the east-country rock ?

A. "Well, as I said before, my acquaintance with the mining of shafts in the east-country rock is very limited, but I can see no reason why it should not occur there in a similar way. I believe in one shaft that was sunk in the Monte Christo lode they were obliged to abandon work in consequence of the large amount of water they met with pretty near the surface. That is east of the Comstock. You might call that the east-country rock.

Q. Is it as likely that they will cut into large bodies of water in the east-country rock as it is that they would in cutting the lode?

A. Well, I am hardly prepared, as I said, to give a definite answer to that question ; but I should think they would be nearly as likely to meet with it — not quite so much so, perhaps, on account of the looser character of the rock in the vein.

Q. Do you know anything about the history of mining down the Comstock lode during the last six or eight years: about the quantities of water they strike in cutting the vein?

A. Nothing except what was related to us.

Q. Who related to you what you know?

A. Well, it is very hard to tell that.

Q. What is the principal source of information that yon had about this water?

A. We sought information from everybody at Virginia City. We sought it from the mining superintendents and from the mine owners. We sought it from the miners themselves always.

Q. Do you mean the laboring miners?

A. Yes, the laboring miners in the mines. We sought it also from the inhabitants of Virginia City. We sought

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it from every person, in fact, so that we might be sure AVO were getting pretty near the truth.

Q. Do you think there is likely to be as much water found outside of a lode as in cutting into the vein?

A. I don't say that. I say that you may meet with it outside as well as in the vein.

Q. In what proportion would that probably be?

A. "Well, it would be a mere guess for me to answer that question. I don't see that you could expect me to answer a question of that kind.

Q. Mr. Day states that the water has decreased from 18 inches to 5 inches, when they had 18 inches the year before. Do you know what they were doing then at that shaft?

A. They were sinking the shaft.

Q. The year previous?

A. Let me see. I don't know. They were sinking the shaft; yes, sir. • Q. But were they not drifting the year before?

A. "Well, I can't say whether they were or not.

Q. He speaks about the 700-foot level in here, where they have been drifting from?

A. Yes, he speaks of it. Yes, I know. But you asked me the question, and I couldn't answer it myself, from my own knowledge.

Q. Well, supposing we take this five inches of water; do you know how much that is?

A. Five inches is five-inches flow, in a certain head, miner's measurement.

Q. Six-inch head?

A. Yes, sir; and 6 inches pressure; that's the miner's measurement.

Q. Mr. Day states, on page 27 :

" This is a dry country, and all who have looked upon it know it."

Well, he gives five inches here, on September 10, 1871. That's after they had been pumping for several years, and it had decreased from 18 inches to 5 ?

A. Do you mean to refer back

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Mr. SUNDERLAND. Not several years, Mr. Sutro; just one year. That's the statement

Mr. SUTRO. They had been pumping, I say, for several years.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The statement he gives is only one year.

Mr. SUTRO. He only gives the statement for that one year.

Mr. FOSTER. Is it from June, 1870, to June, 1871?

Mr. SUTRO. Do you know how much a gallon of water weighs, General?

A. 2s"o; I cannot tell.

Q. Well, it weighs S^-fa pounds, an imperial gallon?

A. I say I don't know. I am not prepared at this moment to give it. I have, of course, the tables of all those things.

Q. Do you know how much a miner's inch will discharge in a minute ?

A. lN"o, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to the testimony given by Mr. Sutro, if the chairman please. I don't know anything about these tables. They may be right, and they may be wrong.

Mr. SUTRO. This is a matter of statistics. It is a well-known fact. Every book on mining will show it — how much water will be discharged under a six-inch pressure. It is a rule well-known to all miners.

The CHAIRMAN. It will appear in the minutes of the remarks of Mr. Sutro.

Mr. KENDALL. As I understand it, Mr. Chairman, these preliminary observations of Mr. Sutro are made as the basis of further questions ? »

Mr. SUTRO. That is the idea. I want to arrive at a question here, and, in order to do that, I have to define what I am going to ask.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. The committee are not obliged to be too particular. 6

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Mr. SUTRO. It is stated that ITy4^ gallons are discharged — the miner's inch — per minute. There are 17^ gallons per minute discharged to a miner's inch. Mr. Day gives us five inches. That gives us 87 gallons per minute, under Ms statement, or 5,220 gallons per hour, or in 24 hours 125,280 gallons, of 8 y3^- pounds each, which gives ua 944,835 pounds of water raised in 24 hours, or 472 T4^ tons. We have previously shown that they are hoisting 12 tons of rock out of the Ophir mine in every 24 hours; and these figures show, taking it for granted that it has been reduced to five inches, that, in order to get out that 12 tons of rock, they have to hoist out 472 tons of water. Do you think that is a considerable proportion, as compared to the quantity of rock they take out, General Foster?

A. Well, I am not prepared to say, in regard to that;

Q. Do you think, General Foster, that it is easy mining where you have to take out 472 tons of water from a depth of 1,200 feet, as it is stated here, in 24 hours, to get out twelve tons of rock. Do you think that is comparatively easy mining?

A. Well, I only know that they go through with it pretty easily. They conduct operations there with tolerable facility.

Q. Well, do you think they could mine much easier if that 472 tons of water was let out below, and they had simply to hoist twelve tons of rock?

A. Yes; undoubtedly.

Q. Do you think it would be any saving to the mine ?

A. If the water were let out below free of expense, or for a less sum of money than it would cost them to pump, I think it would be a saving to the mine.

Q. Would the Ophir company have had anything to pay while they were taking out no ore?

A. Under what circumstances ?

Q. During the time they had been sinking this shaft?

A. You mean under your contract under the law.

Q. I simply ask whether the Ophir company would have

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been placed in advantageous circumstances concerning this water, if they had been allowed to run that water out through the tunnel for nothing?

A. Of course they would have been under very advantageous circumstances.

Q. What percentage do yon think they would have saved in mining if they had saved the hoisting of 472 tons of water, in order to get out 12 tons of rock ?

A. "Well, they would have saved just what it cost to pump it.

Q. Well, you think it costs about as much to pump a ton of water as it would to hoist a ton?

A. Well, we know what they state to be the exact expense of pumping. We know what it costs other mines to pump.

Q. Mr. Day states it cost $29,317, for the year previous, to pump ?

A. What page is that on ?

Q. Page 30.

A. What, is the question ?

Q. I have stated that Mr. Day says it has cost them $29,317 04 to pump for the year previous?

A. Yes.

Q. And I have heretofore shown that they have taken out on an average twelve tons of rock a day. Now, if you figure 472 tons of water a day at hoisting prices, how much would that come to ?

A. Do you want me to make the figures.

Q. Could you give us an approximate idea?

A. No, sir; not without figures. What is the problem ?

Q. It costs $283 a day, at your estimate of 51 cents a ton.

A. How many tons are there?

Q. Four hundred and seventy-two tons of water.

A. How much do you say it costs?

Q. I say it is $283.

A. I make it $240. taking 51 cents as the cost per ton.

Q. I make it $283, at 51 cents.

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A. I left off the decimals, taking 51 cents. I make it $240 72.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is the cost if hoisted on a cage?

Mr. FOSTER. Hoisted in the way they raise the ore; yes, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. They don't raise it that way, I believe.

Mr. SUTRO. Two hundred and forty dollars. Yes, sir, you are right. That makes $7,200 a month, at that rate.

Mr. FOSTER. That would be the cost of hoisting, in the same way that you hoist ore.

Mr. SUTRO. Or $86,400 per annum.

Mr. FOSTER. Which explains more fully what I was endeavoring to explain a little while ago, in answer to your question. It would cost more to raise it in that way.

Mr. SUTRO. How do you arrive at that? Do you arrive at it by reason of these figures given by Captain Day?

A. These figures show what I was endeavoring to explain in regard to hoisting by the

Q. Provided his figures are correct. You take it for granted that all these things are correct as they were given you?

A. Comparing these figures with what was given in his report

Q. Yes, but then they don't make the right figures, General, you see. We have figured on five inches, which lie says it had decreased to on September 10. But he says in June it was eighteen inches, and July sixteen inches, and so on down to ten inches; consequently, we have not given the right figures quite yet.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. ,He states what the actual cost is.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, I don't take the statements of these gentlemen for granted at all.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, I do.

Mr. SUTRO. The average is 10 y6^ inches. That is more than double what we have been figuring on; consequently it costs about $200,000 a year to hoist out that water.

Mr. KENDALL. Five inches?

Mr. SUTRO. No/ The cost of hoisting out the year pre-

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vious amounts to almost $200,000. How does that tally with his $29,000, General Foster?

A. Ah, but you are supposing it to be hoisted out now.

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Well, hoisting would cost much more than pumping.

Q. How do you make that out? You have got to lift a given number of pounds; there are so many pounds to be lifted. I have shown here that there are 940,835 pounds to be lifted out every twenty-four hours, out of a depth, say of 2,000 feet, down to the tunnel level, or say 1,700 feet, to be more accurate. Allow 1,700 feet you have to lift that number of pounds, and every engineer knows that for every foot^of raising 33,000 pounds per minute you have got to have a horse-power. If you get that out, you have got to have so many horse-powers.

A. It is a very different thing. One is hoisted altogether by machinery; the other takes the aid of men, and it is slow and intermittent; the pumping is constant.

Q. You have no friction in pumping, have you? The friction is given at 33 per cent, which is enormous.

A. You have the friction of the cage on its gauge, of course.

Q. Well, is there no friction of water?

A. I don't want to argue the question, but I .believe it is an established fact, that you can pump much easier than you can raise water in vessels.

Q. Do you think, General Foster, that you can pump the same quantity of water for $29,000 that it would cost $200,- 000 to hoist out?

A. Well, if I should state that, you would make me responsible for these figures. I don't state that, I simply state that one process of raising water would be more expensive than the other.

Q. I will presume a case now. Supposing it costs $29,- 000 to pump out a given quantity of water, will it cost $200,000 to hoist out the same water from the same depth?

A. lam not prepared to say whether it would or not.

Mr. KENDALL. Mr. Chairman, let me ask General Foster,

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directly, what is the difference of cost between hoisting water at that depth, say 2,000 or 1,700 feet, and pumping the same quantity ?

A. Well, I can hardly give you the figures for that without calculation.

Q. "Well, approximately?

A. I could not give it to you approximately. I can give you the figures in a very short time of what it would cost by both processes, let me take my tables and take the known capacity of pumps; but I would not like to answer a question of that kind by a mere guess. I can, by the next meeting, prepare a statement which will show you exactly what the difference would be. If you like, I will bring it and put it in as an answer.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Day states that, in June, 1870, they were pumping 18 miner's engines of water. This is equal, under our rule here, to 1,700 tons in 24 hours.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If the General is going to examine his tables, I would like to have him answer that question, as to what it would weigh. I don't know whether Mr. Sutro is right about that.

Mr. SUTRO. What what would weigh?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The five inches.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, if there is anything incorrect about that, it could be very easily established. There is nothing difficult about that at all.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. General Foster can do it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. No, I want General Foster 'to examine it.

Mr. SUTRO. It is the rule taken from the Mining Journal of California.

"MINER'S INCH. A body of water ^36 feet long and one inch square will pass through an orifice one inch square under a pressure of six inches, measured from the center of the orifice, per minute, or 148TY7 Ibs., or 17.4054 United States standard gallons, or 2,333 cubic feet."

That is the rule, sir, that every mining engineer will indorse. You have it then here, that, in June, 1870, Mr. Day states that he had 18 miner's inches of water, which

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is equal to 1,700 tons and a fraction of over 24 Ibs., and he calls that a dry country. Do you think, General Foster, that if that 1,700 tons of water had been let out by means of that tunnel, if that tunnel had been made, it would have saved any money to that company?

A. Certainly.

Q. They were hoisting at that time 12 tons of rock, and supposing that they could have hoisted that 12 tons of rock without being impeded with any water at all, don't you think that the cost of working that mine would have been but a trifle compared to what the real cost was?

A. The cost would have been less, undoubtedly.

Q. Well, that is the Ophir company. I might as well state here, that if we take the average of the whole year, eighteen inches, commencing with eighteen inches and ending with seven inches, we get a quantity of water amounting to 1,005 tons every 24 hours during that year; 1,005 tons, of 2,000 Ibs. ea,ch, had to be lifted 1,700 feet in all to get out 12 tons of rock. Now, let us take the Gould and Curry company. On page 33 Mr. Batterman says:

" The capacity of the pumps is 6,500 gallons per hour. I estimate the cost of pumping from a depth of 2,000 feet, working pump to full capacity, at $83 60 per day. This estimate includes wood, engineers, fireman, pitman, &c. From this estimate of cost should be deducted the value of the water."

Then he goes OH to say, in reply to question No. 7:

"Cost for the year, $16,425."

This is for pumping. Now, if we take 3,500 gallons, which he says he has been pumping per hour

A. How much?

Q. Thirty-five hundred gallons per hour.

A. Sixty-five hundred?

Qj He says the capacity of the pump is 6,500 gallons. But he has been pumping 3,500 gallons? I take this gentleman's figures here now, and we get 84,000 gallons per day. At 8 ffo pounds to the gallon, that gives us 700,560 pounds of water per day, which is equal to 350 ^ tons. Do you think that is a pretty dry mine, General?

A. Well, it isn't so wet as some mines.

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Q. Well, do you think it is as wet a mine as there is over there ?

A. The Gould and Curry? No, 0, no. The Savage, when we were there, was the wettest.

Q. We will recur to the Savage after a little. Here are 350 T2/7 tons per day. Now, supposing there had been a connection with the tunnel, and that 350 tons of water had been let out at the bottom of the shaft, wouldn't that have been a big saving for that company ?

A. It certainly would have been a saving equal to the cost of pumping it out.

Q. Supposing they were to have let it out for nothing ?

A. They would have saved precisely what it cost to pump the water.

Q. Wasn't that the main expense of that mine, to pump out 350 tons of water a day ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Wasn't it a large item of tjie expense ?

A. Well, you see what the item is. It is given there.

Q. We have seen heretofore that the superintendent of the Gould and Curry company states that there is no ore below. We have also shown that he has made over 12,000 feet of drifts during the last year. They have simply been prospecting there. He also states that-he don't suppose there will be any ore there in six months more. Now, wouldn't it have been a very advantageous thing to that company to have had that tunnel in, while they were making these prospecting drifts, 12,000 feet in a single year?

A. Well, as far as the drifts are concerned, I don't know that the tunnel would haye. been of much benefit to them.

Q. Haven't they got to pump while they make these drifts? Haven't uiey got to keep the mine clear every foot they make ?

A. Of course they have to keep the mine clear.

Q. Wouldn't it fill up with water if they stopped pumping?

A. Yes, sir ; it probably would. The lower part would.

Q. Well, supposing the mine had an outlet below,

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wouldn't they have made those drifts without any expense of pumping at all?

A. Certainly.

Q. Now, taking these figures here as a basis, 350 tons at the Gould and Curry and 472 tons at the Ophir mine, that gives us an average of 411 tons between those two mines. What proportion of water do you estimate that that would be on the whole lode? Take the 22,000 feet; suppose it were all explored and the shafts down — 411 tons at one shaft.

A. Do you mean what would be the proportion of the whole water that would be pumped from the lode?

Q. Supposing there were 33 shafts let down into the lode, as we supposed at our last meeting, how much do you think each shaft would average? We have the average of two shafts, viz, 411 tons.

A. Well, I don't like very well to average supposititious questions, which are so very indefinite. I will answer anything I am able to answer.

Q. Have you examined into this question of water ?

A. Certainly; I examined into it.

Q. I suppose you are familiar with the quantity of water in the different mines ?

A. You want, probably, by these questions, to make it appear that they have not made a proper return to us of the cost of pumping.

Q. I do, sir. That is exactly what I mean to show; what I mean to prove.

A. You can't prove it by me — by mere supposititious questions; because that is no proof at all. I can't answer those things.

Q. I want to find out whether it is possible to take out 472 tons of water per day at the price stated?

A. Well, that is a matter of investigation, and I am not prepared to state now in regard to it. I must decline to answer supposititious questions of a wild and indefinite character. If the committee want to know exactly what it has cost, and have such a statement from me what

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the comparison would be, in addition to this report, I should be prepared to give it.

Q. General, how are we going to arrive at the correctness of these statements, when on the face of them they are not correct?

A. The way I should arrive at it would be to get somebody here who can testify directly to the truth or falsity of those statements. I don't think that any indefinite answers that can be given to supposititious questions would disprove them. I am no lawyer, but I should think they would not. I can't disprove those statements.

Q. You have taken in your reports, General, the statements of seven superintendents here?

A. Exactly.

Q. You made your report upon that basis, and you state it costs $124,000 a year to pump.

A. Well.

Q. But I believe we can prove that it will cost more than that in one single mine, and there are thirty mines on the lode?

A. Very well.

Q. How are we going to get at these figures? .

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Show it if you can.

Mr. SUTRO. You are an engineer, General Foster, and you are able to judge whether 472 tons of water can be hoisted or pumped out at the figures these people make.

Mr. FOSTER. You want me to answer these questions here now, and I am not prepared to do so. If the committee wants it, I can make the figures, and show what the relative amounts would be.

The CHAIRMAN. It would be more satisfactory if Mr. Sutro will put his inquiries in writing.

Mr. FOSTER. And I could bring the answers at the next meeting.

Mr. SUTRO. It would be impossible td arrive at that, except by a general statement, from general observation. My question is : If we have 472 tons of water every twenty-

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four hours at one shaft, how much will it probably be at all the shafts? That is a reasonable question to make. Mr. FOSTER. Well, it's very indefinite :

"How much will it probably be for all, if you have so much for one?"

Nothing is more uncertain than the striking of water, or the presence of water. You may have more water in the shaft of one mine than you have in all the others.

Q. Then we have two statements here. We have one from the Ophir mine, and one from the Gould and Curry mine. These are the only answers in your report of a definite character, and these are the only persons that have answered them definitely. Now, I mean to say, that these gentlemen have not stated the facts fully. They have not given the figures that would lead us to a correct idea of the quantity of water there. Now, how are we going to get ,at it, but by comparing the statements of these two mines, taking the whole length of the lode, and multiplying it by the number of mines outside of these two? I cannot see any other way to get at it. We want to get more definite results.

A. The proper way to get at the cost of pumping is, to take the elements into consideration : the cost of machinery, the cost of fuel, the wear and tear of the machinery, the interest on the investment, the number of men that are employed, the pitmen, engineers, etc., and to add these several items together : that will give the cost. That is the only way to get at it.

Mr. KENDALL. By your permission, Mr. Chairman, I will ask General Foster two or three questions that may add to the facts elicited by this examination. Did you examine these various mines, with reference to the quantity of water that is flowing into them — these seven mines? . A. Not particularly; no, sir. That was only one point of the investigation.

Q. Did you examine them sufficiently to arrive at a general opinion as to the average amount of water that was flowing into each of these mines?

A. Yes, sir.

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Q. Now, then, here are seven mines. About what, General, was the average amount of water that came into these mines per day? Of course you cannot give it exactly; but give it approximately. Some are wetter than others. Some, are, perhaps, nearly dry. Some are very wet. Now, about what would be the average amount?

A. Well, I cannot give an answer to that right off. Let me see. I saw one — I saw the Ophir, the Gould and Curry, the Savage, and the Crown Point pumping.

Q. Take the Ophir, General. I think you remarked that that was not so wet a mine as are many of the others ?

A. I did not go down it myself.

Q. . Well, from the information you derived, it was about the dryest mine of the whole series you have mentioned. Was that the statement?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. No, sir; it was not.

Mr. FOSTER. It was the next wettest of the mines that I saw.

Mr. KENDALL. What was the dryest mine, then?

A. I think the Yellow Jacket was as dry as any.

Q. Do you know the quantity that flowed into that mine, or about the quantity?

A. It was none at all. At least what little water did run into it ran into the Crown Point, and the Crown Point was pumping very little. They didn't pump enough to supply the boilers from both mines.

Mr. SUTRO. Just here, will you permit me to ask a question ?

Mr. FOSTER. I could make a statement that would be very close to the amount they were pumping out while we were there. The Ophir mine was running their pump very slowly. The Savage was running their pumps very fast — as fast as they possibly could. I think I have notes in New York that will give exactly the number of gallons they were discharging; and if General Wright comes on he will bring those notes with him, so that we can. tell you exactly on that point. But the expense of pumping is hardly dependent upon the quantity of water you get out.

They run the pumps, and if they only run about half the time, they have to keep their engines there and the men there; and there is the wear and tear of the machinery the same, and most of the other items of expense remain the same. Now, the Crown Point only ran their pumps very little — a very little — and they had to have the same kind of expensive machinery, and they had nearly the same men employed. The elements of expense were about the same.

Mr. SUTRO. General Foster, you have just stated that, when you were there, the water from the Yellow Jacket was discharging into the Crown Point?

A. It ran into the Crown Point.

Q. Consequently there was no water in the Yellow Jacket?

A. JTbe water that was there was the seepage from above.

Q. Exactly. Now, how fair would you consider this answer, given, by Mr." Taylor, the superintendent of the Yellow Jacket

Mr. SUNDERLAND. What is the page?

Mr. SUTRO. Page 44, question No. 8 :

" Has the water in your mine increased or diminished with the depth, and in what proportion?"

To this he replies :

"The water in the mine has decreased from 20 inches, at 250-foot level, to less than 1 inch at 1,130-foot level, (miners' measure, 6-inch pressure.")

Do you consider that a fair answer to your question, when at that time the water was discharging into the Crown Point mine, and they had no pumping to do?

A. Yes, I consider that a fair answer.

Q. That's a fair answer to your question, whether the water had decreased in their mine or not, when he states that it had decreased from 20 inches to 1 inch, and a stream of water was running into the other mine adjoining it, and they were pumping rt out! Do you consider that a fair answer to your question ?

A. Yes; it was a very fair answer from what we understood. We knew that the water which came in there was only the seepage from above. It was a very small stream

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that ran from there to the Crown Point, and the Crown Point pumped it up, "because they only had their own water to pump, and they had as lief pump that up as not.

Q. Well, in presenting this report to Congress, is it not intended to mislead them with regard to the quantity of water in the Yellow Jacket mine?

A. I don't think it is, but I will look at it again. "Where is it?

Q. On page 44. Have you found it?

A. Yes, sir; I consider that perfectly fair. I believe that the amount of water that ran into the Crown Point mine from the Yellow Jacket was not over one inch, miners' measurement. It had to be pumped up by the Crown Point. I don't think it was over an inch. It was a very small stream.

Q. How do you know that?

A. I saw it. I saw it running in myself, an^d I saw them pump it out.

Q. How much lower was the Crown Point mine than the Yellow Jacket?

A. The Crown Point mine, I think, was down to about 1,500 feet when I was there, and the Yellow Jacket was at nearly the same depth.

Q. Have you had any experience in mining, General?

A. Well, yes; I have had as much experience as some other people have.

Q. Do you know

A. If you ask the question seriously, though, I will answer it. I suppose you want to underrate my testimony by it. I answer candidly, I have not.

Q. I do not wish anything of the kind. I simply want to get at the idea whether, where one mine joins another, you are aware you cannot see the entire flow of water between them. The water comes underneath the rock.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Were they not mining on the 1000-foot level when yoia were there?

Mr. FOSTER. I saw enough of mining to know about that fact. I saw the water running, and it was running, when

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I saw it, in a diift. It came through from one mine to another. They were mining nearly on the same level. Tins was on the same level. It was running through, and it was running at about six feet a minute, which would make about 360 in an hour. It was running through a drift, connecting the two, from the Yellow Jacket into the Crown Point, and in the Crown Point it was pumped out just about an inch, I should say, miners' measurement.

Mr. SUTRO. Isn't the vein matter porous, General?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, supposing there was a large quantity of water at the bottom of the Yellow Jacket mine, would it not seep through the rock, and find its way to the pumping sump in the Crown Point mine, provided that is lower, without flowing through a drift?

A. Well, I don't know about that. I only know that I saw water running from one mine into the other, and saw the other mine pumping it up.

Q. Well, now, I come back to the Gould and Curry mine, where we arrived at 350 tons in 24 hours. On page 33 of the commissioners' report, Mr. Batterman states, that it cost for the year $16,425 to pump. !N"ow, General Foster, do you believe that 350 tons every 24 hours can be pumped out of the Gould and Curry mine, from the 1,300-foot station, at a cost of $16,000 in a year?

A. I believe that it is not pumped from that level.

Q. He states so.

A. Thirteen hundred-foot level ?

Q. He says:

41 The cost of raising the water in this mine from a depth of 825 feet, also running pumps while sinking to 1,300-foot station, has been $60 per day, the quantity of water raised about 3,500 gallons per hour."

A. From the 1,300-foot station; yes.

Q. Now, I ask this again, General : Do you believe that 350 tons every 24 hours, which is equal to 3,500 gallons per hour, as he states, can be pumped out of that mine 1,300 feet for $16,425 a year, including wear and tear of machinery?

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A. He does not state that.

Q. Do you believe that that quantity of water can be pumped for $16,425?

A. I believe that that statement is correct. I believe from a depth of 825 feet to 1,300 feet the cost of pumping was as he gives it.

Q. Did you enter the- Savage mine while you were over there?

A. N"o, sir.

Q. Did you enter the Hale and Norcross ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Why didn't you?

A. They had had an influx of water in both mines, first in the one mine and then in the other; and they were running their pumps, and everything was in a condition which made it very unfavorable for us to visit the mines.

Q. Were the men drowned out, so that they had to leave the mines ?

A. The mines were considered to be flooded, and our suggestion to go into the mine was not met favorably by the parties in charge, who represented these inauspicious circumstances; and so much was said to discourage us, that we did not go.

Q. Did you make repeated applications to go ?

A. I don't know that we made repeated applications.

Q. Did you express the desire?

A. We expressed a desire to go repeatedly.

Q. What do you think was the reason they wouldn't let you go in there ?

A. I think the reason is just as they stated it, that the mine was flooded with water. They were pumping with their utmost energy, and everything was in too much disorder and confusion to visit the mine and find out anything. All we could have found out would have been how they were pumping, and what was the capacity of the pumps.

Q. What did you hear about that flood that had taken place there? Did you hear any particulars about it?

A. J$To particulars, except that the water burst iu on

97

them, and flooded one mine, and then penetrated to the others.

Q. Did you hear anything of the mine getting filled with rock by the immense force of the water getting in, the drifts filling up with rocks and debris?

A. No, sir.

Q. You didn't hear of that? Did you hear that they had an immense influx of water there ?

A. We heard that the mines were flooded.

Q. And you heard nothing about any drifts filling up at all?

A. I have already answered that we did not.

The CHAIRMAN. General Foster, this accumulation of water was in excess of the amount to be pumped out daily, was it?

A. Oh, yes, sir. They were getting it down as we were leaving, and they expected to have the mine in proper condition for inspection in a short time. I presume if we had insisted on it we could have inspected both mines.

Q. What is the capacity of the pumps they were using?

A. I did not examine them. ,1 observe that the capacity of those pumps, as in fact all the machinery in use on the lode, is given in full in King's report, and we didn't find it necessary to take detailed notes upon that point, because we had that report at hand. The report is very elaborate, and gives the machinery of all the different mines.

Q. General Foster, you are, I believe, compelled to rely upon these reports, made by the superintendents of the Ophir and Gould and Curry mines, for the opinion you have expressed in your report as to the cost of pumpin^ and lifting the ore ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You had no other means of ascertaining ?

A. We relied not only upon these, but upon the superintendents of the other mines also. Their testimony as to the cost of pumping and lifting was taken into consideration.

Q. You had no other means

7

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A. We had reports in fall from six. We expected to get it from Crown Point, but he did not

Q. You had no other means for ascertaining the accuracy of these reports than the opinion as to the reliability of the persons who made them ?

A. None other, except our own opinion, on the testimony of other people.

Q. You didn't examine their books ?

A. We did not ; no, sir.

Q. You did not ascertain whether they had the number of men represented at work?

A. No, sir.

Q. You didn't take any notes as to the quantity of ore that they were raising in a given time, or the quantity of water?

A. We did the quantity of ore in one or two instances, and we also took notes of the quantity of water that was being discharged, and we had them in our note-books at the time we were visiting the mines. These note-books will be here in a few days.

Mr. SUTRO. General Foster, let me ask you whether you heard about a fire that took -place one time in one of the Gold Hill mines, by which forty-five miners were burned to death ?

A. Yes, sir; the fire in the Crown Point mine. An account of it is given in Clarence King's report.

Q. Supposing there had been an outlet below, after the mine had become filled with smoke, do you think these miners would have been burned to death?

A. I believe there was an outlet below then, and the fire <got between them and that outlet, and that is the reason they were burned to death.

Q. The fire spread between two mines. How could there have been an outlet below ?

A. There was an outlet between the one and the other, but the fire intercepted them. It might had there been a tunnel, but is not so likely.

Q. Supposing the tunnel were in, and the draught going

99

either way, could they not escape one way, where the draught was coming-from ?

A. Well, the escaping depends upon the position of the fire. If the fire should be below, they could come up. Probably, if the fire was above them, and they had a clear passage below, they could go out below.

Q. Supposing these mines were all connected at the bottom, with lateral drifts along the mines, and cross drifts?

A. But if the fire should shut off their egress in both directions they would be burned.

Q. Is that a probable case ?

A. Well, that's the way the fire was in the Crown Point.

Q. Didn't it commence between the two mines?

A. I believe it did.

Q. There was no outlet; the shafts, became filled with smoke; how could they get out?

A. But, my dear sir, a great many of them were hoisted out.

Q. Some few got out, but forty-five got burned to death.

A. They were suffocated by the gases, and they could not get out; they fell dead. There was an outlet for them.

Q. Well, I mean to say, supposing there were ramifications and connections all over, could they not have got out of the tunnel ?

A. Well, they had the fairest outlet in the world; they had the direct shaft up to the open air.

Q. Wouldn't the smoke rise right up the moment the fire started, and fill the shaft?

A. It didn't rise immediately; those that were suffocated were on the lower levels; they were suffocated by the gases. Some of the men were gotten out, but the gases filled the lower portions of the mine very rapidly. But they were suffocated, not burned; they were burned afterwards: they met their death by suffocation: that might occur with a tunnel, but.it would not be so likely.

Q. Do you think these laboring miners know something about mining?

A. Well, I think they do; yes.

Q. Well, what made you state before that the Miners' Union is in favor of this tunnel ?

A. You invited gentlemen to meet us, and they so stated to us; we met them by your invitation, the head men of the Miners' Union.

Q. Did you come in contact much with those miners?

A. With the laboring men ?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes, sir; I always seized every opportunity myself, when I was down in the mines, to converse with the miners, when the overseers or superintendents were not by.

Q. Do you think they would have been likely to tell you anything that would have been contrary to the wishes of the superintendents?

A. I don't know about that. We never asked them anything of a private character when their overseers were by.

Q. Didn't they seem to be afraid to answer questions when the overseers were present?

A. No, sir. I don't think the men did. We had men come to us at our rooms and give us information, and tell us that they did'nt want to have their names known, for it would jeopardize their interests; but not in the mines.

Q. What did they mean by that?

A. I suppose they meant just what they said.

Q. They meant they would be discharged if they said anything in favor of the tunnel ?

A. This man who spoke to us said he was afraid of that. Only one man of them made that request, that we would not give his name.

Q. Do you not think there is a sort of terrorism exercised over these men?

A. Well, there is no more terrorism exerted there than there is in every case of a large body of men hired by a large corporation. They all defer to the opinions of the employer necessarily.

Q. I want to ask you one or two questions here in regard to ventilation. Supposing this tunnel were in, and a

shaft connected with it, going up to the surface, and the thermometer would stand at the bottom of that shaft at 110°, while the air outside, above, would be say at 65°, would that hot air rise up in that shaft and create a partial vacuum, and make the air from the mouth of the tunnel draw in ?

A. It is impossible to answer that question. Any one would suppose that would be the case, but we went in a tunnel, and that tunnel was connected by a shaft with the open air above, and we found, instead of the draft being in the tunnel, up through this shaft to the open air, it was directly the other way; it came down the shaft.

Q. General, what is the name of that mine ?

A. That is the Occidental.

Q. Now, will you permit me to ask whether you found any difference of temperature at the bottom of that shaft in the Occidental mine and at the surface ?

A. Yes, sir; we found a difference of temperature.

Q. Where was it the highest — at the bottom of the shaft or the top ?

A. I don't know that we tried it at the top of the shaft. I don't think we did. I did'nt, and I don't know whether Professor Kewcomb did or not ; but on the whole exterior, on the outside of the mountain, at the mouth of the tunnel, the thermometer stood quite high.

Mr. SHOBER. What was the length of the tunnel, General ?

A. About 1,200 feet.

Q. And what was the depth of the shaft ?

A, I cannot answer that very definitely. I should think it was about 500 feet.

Mr. SUTBO. General, was there any material difference, as far as you recollect, between the temperature at the surface and the temperature at the bottom of that shaft?

A. Oh, certainly.

Q. A material difference ?

A. Very material; yes.

Q. What was the difference?

A. I should think 15° or 20°.

Q. Where was it the highest?

A. It was the highest outside, at the mouth of the tunnel, and on top.

Q. Now, suppose that at the bottom of that shaft you would build a fire, where would that draught go to?

A. Well, that is impossible to tell — you can't tell.

Q. Suppose you build a fire in a chimney, where would it go?

A. Well, we all know it would go up.

Q. Isn't the shaft the same as a chimney?

A. It is very different, sir.

Q. What are the laws that govern the elastic fluids? Are they not always alike: those that govern gases or air? Do they not find their equilibrium always?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, now, suppose at the bottom of a shaft the temperature stands much higher than at the top, wouldn't the natural result be, that the heat would rise up ?

A. So any one would suppose; but, as I have said, it don't in all cases, and there is no use for you to talk about it. We know it is a positive fact that it goes the other way.

Q. Well, don't you think it is very remarkable?

A. It may be very remarkable, but it is nevertheless true.

Q. Suppose you were to build a fire at the bottom of a shaft 2,000 feel deep, at this point where the tunnel comes in and connects with the shaft, would you think that the smoke or the heat from that fire would go out of the tunnel, or the shaft?

A. I don't know why you want me to express my opinion again. I have already told you exactly what I know about the passage of the draught in respective tunnels and shafts; and I stated, moreover, that, when you have a tunnel and shaft connected, you cannot tell a priori which way the draft is going to be.

Q. No matter what the difference in temperature would

be at the bottom of this shaft, at the top of the shaft, or at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. No, sir; I don't say "no matter about it," because everything affects the question; but you may connect two shafts, and you cannot tell which way the draught will be till the draught is determined.

Mr. KENDALL. Let me ask General Foster as regards the advantages of ventilation : "Would it, or would it not, make any material difference which way this draught should be, up the shaft or down the shaft?

A. I think it would make a material difference which way it should be. I think the best way would be to have the draught go down the shafts and out the tunnel ; it would be much better for the miners. So that what Mr. Sutro is trying to have me say would be just the worst thing in the world for him.

Q. That is referred to somewhere, is it not?

A. Yes, sir; it is embodied in the report on page 9, I think.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I think you say something with regard to the ventilation in the Yellow Jacket?

Mr. FOSTER. It is on page 6. On page 7 it is continued. (Commissioners' Report.) Those are the results of absolute observations.

Q. Which set aside all theories in the world ?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENDALL. You say here probably the mines would be most benefited by the air passing downward through them, and out at the mouth of the tunnel. ?

A. If it should pass the other way, in the way you would suppose it would naturally, it would be a great deal better for the miners.

Q. Yes, sir.

A. We thought of that a great deal, and came to that conclusion.

Mr. SUTRO. I want to ask you one more question, General, and then I will close. I want to ask whether any one

of those seven gentlemen, who made these published statements to you, is a graduate of any mining school ?

A. You mean Colonel Requa?

Q. Several have made statements?

A. Yes; Colonel Requa, Mr. Batterman, Mr. Taylor, Captain Day, &c. Well, I couldn't state with regard to that. I don't know where they graduated.

Q. Do you know whether they have graduated at all?

A. I received a good many statements from Mr. Janin. I think he told me that he was a graduate of a mining school. •

Q. Well, he was turned out, wasn't he?

A. He is not a superintendent now.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. There never has been a graduate of a mining school there yet that didn't turn out a failure.

Mr. FOSTER. I don't know whether they are graduates or not.

Mr. SUTRO. There isn't one on the Comstock lode that is a graduate of a mining school.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. ~N"o, sir, there is not; and we don't want them.

Mr. SUTRO. You may now take the witness.

The cross-examination.

Mr. SESSIONS. The air going down the shafts, you think, would be better for the miners than going up?

Mr. FOSTER. Yes, if it went in the way you would suppose it would naturally.

Q. Would that be more salubrious for the miners?

A. Yes. It would carry the vapors out and prevent their rising. If you work up from the tunnel, the up-work would receive all the heated air, all the vitiated air, you know, and make it doubly bad for them to work in; whereas if it went the other way, it might draw it out. Certainly it wouldn't receive this increase from below from the heads of the works. In the Dana tunnel, and in the Occidental tunnel, the draught goes out of the tunnel. In the- Crown Point and Yellow Jacket mine, the draught at first was

down the Yellow Jacket, through the drift, connecting on the lower level, and up the Crown Point. When this fire occurred, it singularly enough changed that, and after the fire the draught was going the other way.

Mr. SHOBER. The fire was in the drift, and after that the current changed?

A. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How did it occur?

A. I have forgotten how it occurred.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Mr. King gives an account, I think.

Mr. FOSTER. King gives a full account. It was an accidental occurrence. They got the information, and started to get out; some of them did get out; they were hoisted out, and climbed up ladders. Some of them were found up a few levels above, where they clambered on ladders, and finally suffocated. The gas they were in was thick, and before they could get out of the shaft they died. The shaft was working, and they sent the cage down as far as they could, and men went down on the cage to get miners, but they could not get them out quick enough; they were suffocated.

Mr. SHOBER. Can that change in the current be accounted for in any way by reason of the fire ?

A. No, sir. It is one of the anomalies of ventilation that you cannot account for. It seems to be an exceptional case, and all those cases referred to seem exceptional.

Mr. SUTRO. General, what makes that draft down one shaft and up another ?

A. I can't say.

Q. Doesn't the heated air arising up one shaft create a vacuum, and it must come down the other shaft to replace it?

A. Well, I will answer it in this way : If you have two shafts on a hill-side, coming down on an angle of 45°, one lower down than the other, you will say that the larger one has a larger chimney. They are connected below. You build a fire in the middle-of your connection. You say the larger chimney has the more heated air in it, and

the top is hotter than the lower one, and the draught should go the other way.

Q. No. I would first take a thermometer and see whether there be any difference at the tops of these shafts. If there was a material difference in the thermometer, the hot air would probably rise in the shaft where the air would be the warmest on top; but if there were no difference, the draught may go up either one or the other; but in the case of a shaft and the tunnel being connected, why the hot air, according to my ideas about the motion of air, is bound to rise up in a shaft, and be replaced by the cold air coming in through the tunnel.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. All other things being equal, the density of the air must be greater at the top of the lower shaft.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, if there is a material difference in elevation it must be so; but where there are only a few feet difference, (the difference between Yellow Jacket and Crown Point being but thirty feet,) it doesn't make any material difference.

Mr. FOSTER. Still there is a difference. The air is rarer, and ought to be hotter. No, you cannot reason upon that thing. It is one of those things that depends entirely upon the fact.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, I don't believe it is as much as 30 feet between the Crown Point and Yellow Jacket. Yes, it is. One is 433 feet, and the other 483; that makes a difference of 50 feet. -

Mr. FOSTER. Where did the fire occur 7

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It occurred in the 800-foot level of the Yellow Jacket.

Mr. SHOBER. What is the length of the drift where the fire occurred, between the two shafts?

Mr. FOSTER, I think it is 600 feet; it may be less than that; that is my recollection of it.

Mr. SESSIONS. What is the size of these drifts, generally ?

Mr. FOSTER. Six feet by seven are the general dimensions.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is, outside of the timbers; the timbers go inside of thVt?

Mr. FOSTER. Sometimes they get down to five feet in width, to, say, six or seven in height. 6

Mr. SUNDERLAND. As we are on this fire, here, I will ask you, General Foster, some questions about it, before I pass it over. You stated at the last meeting that these shafts, in all the principal mines, would be below the tunnel level before the tunnel could get in, did you not ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Suppose, below the tunnel level, a fire should occur, as occurred here in the Yellow Jacket and Crcwn Point, could the tunnel then be of any benefit ?

A. I don't see that it could be of any benefit; it might, of course. Some men might go out that way better than they could go up the shafts. In Crown Point mine many men were suffocated going up the pump shaft and climbing the ladders. If they could reach the tunnel, they could more easily go out of the tunnel than they could climb ladders.

Q. The loss of life in this fire was amongst men who were below the level of the fire?

A. Principally; yes, sir.

Q. Suppose the fire should occur in a level above the , men at work below the tunnel level?

A. They must inevitably be suffocated, unless drifts were made to adjacent shafts, sunk down from the tunnel level, by which they could ascend and get out.

Q. The tunnel itself would be no safety to the men who were below the level of the fire?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you exarni^ the Sierra Nevada mine, when you were there?

A. No, sir; we went over the ground, but we did not go into the mine.

Q. Did you see them bringing out the ore?

A. We saw them bringing the ore out on their trucks from the tunnel, and we were told that they were mining

in that tunnel, and running the ore out through this drift at the top. /

Q. They were getting it, then, I suppose, near the surface?

A. Yes, sir; and running it out of the tunnel, and throwing it down the chutes directly into their mill.

Q. Mr. King says, in his report, page 167 :

"SiEBRA NEVADA. — The mine just named has been prospected to a depth of 500 or 600 feet, involving the expenditure of a large sum of money, without developing important deposits of silver ore. Its good fortune has been since found in working the surface rock, which has proved to be rich in gold. The gold-bearing ground is not very high in value per ton, but, as it is easily extracted and cheaply milled, the work has been very profitable. Up to January 1, 1869, the company had assessed nearly $500,000 without very satisfactory results. About that time the importance of its gold:bearing surface deposits became known. A mill was erected on the property, close by the source of ore, and commenced operations, milling the rock for the gold only, without attempting to save silver. This simple process consists of amalgamation in the battery, and on copper-plated tables in front of the battery, avoiding all expense for pan treatment.

"During 1869 the company produced and milled 18,000 tons of rock, yielding $155,971 36, or an average of $8 66 per ton. The expenses per ton were as follows: For mining, $1 92; milling, $3 03; incidentals, $0 72; making a total of $5 72, and leaving a profit of $2 94 per ton. During the year referred to there were no assessments, and the dividends amounted to $45,000."

Now, in mining in the manner in which that mine is worked, would the tunnel be of any benefit?

A. No, sir.

Q. What is the dip of the vein in that neighborhood?

A. The Comstock?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Forty-five degrees.

Q. Gould you lower the ore from there down to the tunnel level as cheaply as it can be run out through the way it is now run out?

A. No, sir.

Q. What would be the means of lowering the ore there at that dip of the angle, calculating ±he distance it would be east from where they are now at work ?

A. The ore might be precipitated down successive chutes, There might be a difficulty about making one continuous chute. I believe they have found by experience that they must have chutes not much larger than a hundred feet, to avoid their being choked up, so as to produce a great deal

of trouble in clearing them out. They might arrange a succession of chutes, down which the ore could be sent. Those chutes would have to be attended, and each landing would have to have men to shove the ore on. It might be lowered also by cars, running down an incline.

Q. How high would it be necessary to rise? Do you know the difference between the altitude of the Sierra Nevada and the point that I mark on these maps here? [Exhibiting on atlas.]

A. I do not.

Q. It is not given on the maps. It is a little lower than that point.

Mr. SUTRO. It is 200 feet lower.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. What would be the probable expense of raising, supposing the tunnel to be in, and raising from the tunnel level up to the point where they are at work now, and constructing an incline to lower ore into the tunnel?

Mr. FOSTER. It would cost as much as it would to raise a shaft that distance, being so steep. It would cost just as much as it would to raise a shaft vertically.

Q. How far, General, is it safe to let ore drop perpendicularly, to avoid the breaking of timbers ?

A. I believe 100 feet is the limit.

Q. Do you know any perpendicular chute where they let ore fall 100 feet?

A. No, sir, I do not. j The chutes that I know of 100 feet are inclined chutes.

Q. Not perpendicular?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you notice that there was any wear and tear of the timbers?

A. Yes, sir; very great.

Q. The Chollar Potosi, I believe, has been a very successful mine for the last two or three years, has it not ?

A. I believe it has; yes, sir.

Q. Do you know how deep they work? •

A. They have worked very deep; I believe to 1,100 or 1,200 feet. At present they are not working so deep.

Q. I am speaking now of the present depth to which they are working ?

A. They are working near the surface.

Q. Near the surface ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You stated that you did not go into the Sierra Nevada. You didn't see any difference of water there, did you?

A. No, sir.

Q. Is there any water in the Chollar Potosi where you have been? You have been in the Ghollai' Potosi?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there any water there ?

A. I didn't see any. The lower shaft was filled with water. *

Q. The lower shaft is not being worked at all.

A. No, sir. They had suffered it to become filled up with water.

Q. In the shaft that is now working, to the depth at which they are working, is there any water at all, any appearance of water, any running water, or any pumps?

A. No, sir; I didn't see any.

Q. The Jast report of the Chollar Potosi shows that there were some 84,000 tons worked. I am referring to Mr. Bequa's report, or rather the report of the president, including Mr. Requa's?

A. Mr. Requa reported to us that he had done no pumping for the last two years.

Q. In the report made at the last annual meeting of the company, in June, 1871, the president says :

"The dividends paid during the year aggregate some $2,000,000."

The superintendent gives as the gross proceeds $3,459,- 423 08. Gould the tunnel have been of any benefit to that company in working that mine?

Q. You mean working, as they have been working r&j cently, in the upper levels?

Ill

Q. Yes, sir; for the last year.

A. No, sir; I don't think it could.

Q. You saw them at work in the lowest levels. Do you remember how deep they were working ?

A. I think they were working 600 feet deep, but I am not positive with regard to that.

Q. I guess you are mistaken about that.

A. We went into different levels.

Q. How is the most of the ore taken out there, General ?

A. It is

Q. I mean through a tunnel?

A. It is run out through a tunnel. It is one of the upper tunnels, 200 or 300 feet down. They have a tunnel running out to their dump. They have two or three adits at different levels.

Q. They were taking the ore right out from the surface, were they, when you were there?

A. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did they construct those tunnels ?

Mr. FOSTER. Well, the opinion was favorable to tunnels at that time. A great many tunnels were started there. There was the Latrobe tunnel, that was run in for several thousand feet, and ruined two or three men. They went entirely through the Comstock lode to the west-country rock, and singularly enough they didn't find any ore. That is abandoned now. It is a very long tunnel. These other tunnels are nearer the surface, right up, and they are used to get the ore out of. They use this one now, and they use all the tunnels, I believe. They are used for different purposes.

Mr. SUTRO. We have a map here which shows all the tunnels on the lode. There are probably 30 or 40 of them.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I will read you the report which shows how deep it is. In 1:he last annual report, after referring to the Belvidere lode as containing a large number of tons of good ore, the superintendent of the Chollar Potosi says :

"Results establish the fact that no overestimate was made. On this lode the rule is, that these ore deposits are not regular in their form ; this ore has

proved no exception to the rule. Consequently, to give a description of it, resort is made to an average. The stope, as viewed, would nearly resemble a regular body of ore of one hundred and forty feet in length, forty-five feet in width, and running from the Potosi tract floor up toward the surface two hundred and twenty feet."

He says where he ran in here it was 220 feet from the Potosi tract floor up to the surface : 220 feet.

"The quality of ore was very regular; much the 'larger portion extracted required no assorting. The whole was standing on an angle to the eastward of twenty-eight degrees.

"Down from Potosi tunnel level (that is 220 feet from the surface) fifty feet the clays came together, in a manner that gave an appearance of the ore having been entirely cut outl"

That makes 55 feet and 220 feet?

A. Yes, sir; 275 feet.

Q. "Well, now, would it be possible to mine or mill any cheaper from that mine in case a tunnel were in to-day?

A. No ; it wouldn't be any cheaper where they are mining now, in that bonanza.

Q. Well, that is what I speak of. That is all the ore you saw in the Chollar?

A. That is all I saw in the bonanza there.

Q. Isn't that all that has ever been discovered ?

A. I believe it is ; yes, sir.

Q. Did Mr. Requa report to you what it costs to mine that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you remember the figures?

A. About f 8 a ton.

Q. To mine ?

A. Oh, no ; I am not thinking of Mr. Requa. Mr. Re-qua did report to us, and I had my note-book. I am not positive that that is the figure he gave me. About $5 — it is stated there $4 69.

Q. Milling $12 per ton?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, I will get you to look at these tables, and see if the $4 69 don't include every expense connected with the mine, except that of milling ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That includes all the expense?

A. Yes, sir; all the cost of extracting the ore.

Q. I will now ask you to state from that table what taxes were paid that year. You will find it in the table there.

A. Taxes, $21,971 29.

Q. Will you see what the legal expense was?

A. Legal expenses, §4,885 20.

Q. That is all I want in connection with that. I simply show these as specimens of the expenses of the mining company outside of the sinking of the shaft and the pumping of water. [To the committee.] I wish to say, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, that, as long as the truthfulness of the reports made by the mining superintendents has been called in question, I may be compelled, in the discharge of my duty, to ask the committee to adjourn until I can get witnesses from Virginia City, who can be sworn and testify to the facts, or else ask the committee to make a report to the House of Representatives recommending the appointment of a joint committee of the two branches to go out there, with power to send for persons and papers, and find out the facts. I am ready, if I have an opportunity, to prove my case. At present it is impossible to get witnesses here from there. The commission which went out there was not authorized to swear witnesses, to examine books, to send for papers, and to make that investigation which it now seems is necessary to have. If these reports are still called in question, I shall ask the committee to make that recommendation to the House. I would like to ask General Foster one question more. If he ever applied to any superintendent or clerk of any company there to see the books of the company?

Mr. FOSTER. No, sir.

Q. Was facility, that you ever hinted you desired, refused you, to gain all the information that could be gained by you while you were there?

A. No, sir. We didn't understand our duty as requiring us to verify the accuracy of the statements made offi- 8

cially to us. "We had certain specific points to ascertain and report on, which points were given definitely in the law, and we confined ourselves strictly to the investigation of the facts under those different heads. We did look over some books, but not to extract from them any lengthy or consolidated statement. We were not refused anything that we asked for. On the contrary, we were told by everybody that they were desirous of having a fair exhibit made of the facts in the case. They didn't wish to conceal anything, and they would do anything they could to further the investigation. They considered the interests of Virginia City as dependent upon this great interest of mining, and they wished to have a perfectly fair investigation. We were obliged to have our report in by orders on the 1st of December. We had no time to spare to make a lengthy examination of books. We were not authorized to hire experts and accountants. We had to do all these things ourselves, and we got home in September. We immediately went to work consolidating our information and preparing our report, and we got it in on the 1st of December. We were fully occupied from the moment of the time we started. We had no idea that these representations, made officially to us, would be doubted, and they covered the grounds of our investigation, as we understood them under the law.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that we have all the material here necessary to get at the facts in this case. We have, in the first place, the statements of seven superintendents attached to this report, and upon which the report is based to some extent; we have the reports of Mr. Raymond, the United States commissioner on mining; we have Mr. King's report; and we also have th6 reports of these mining companies from year to year; and by instituting a comparison of these materials, I think we can arrive at a very clear conclusion as to what may be taken as correct and what incorrect.

The CHAIRMAN. The sub-committee has only limited powers. No authority has been delegated them to send

for persons and papers, or to make any arrangements for the investigation beyond the limits that have already been assumed or designated. If the sub-committee report that they are unable to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion, why, then, it is for the whole committee to determine whether they will ask for extended power from the House. That is a question that would only be determined in the committee.

• Air. SUNDERLAND. I did not suppose that the sub-committee could determine it. The first time the whole committee met, and I was asked if I had any witnesses here. I said I had not, because I relied on the reports.

Mr. SUTRO. If I understand correctly, Mr. Sunderland wants to go outside of the records. We were to. take-the reports of the commissioners, together with the statements attached thereto, and the official reports made by the Government, and also the reports of these mining companies.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. We have gone outside of the record all the time.

The CHAIRMAN. As one of the committee, I have been inclined to get all the information possible. We have been giving you all the latitude you require. It only imposes additional labor on the committee, in sifting out from this voluminous testimony what is the desired evidence in making up their report to the general committee. We are certainly traveling over a great deal of ground, and I don't know whether this committee will ever be able to arrive at the gist of the thing.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Gentlemen of the committee will bear witness that I have not gone over much ground.

The CHAIRMAN. I did not intend that as a reflection. It cannot be so construed. But I suppose it is the desire of the parties in controversy that the committee arrive at a conclusion us speedily as possible, and elicit all the facts that are necessary to be considered in making up the report. I know it will be very satisfactory to the committee, if inquiries were made more direct, and confined more to the subject-matter.

Hearing On Wednesday Evening, Feb. 21.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. (Resuming cross-examination of General Foster.) Did you visit the Overman mine while you were at Virginia City ?

A. 'No, sir; I did not, myself. The other members of the commission visited it. I was not with them them at the time.

Q. You took some pains to ascertain the cost of mining and milling there, did you not?

A. We consulted their report in regard to it.

Q. Mr. King says, on page 187 of his report, that the average value of ore is generally stated at $20 to $25 per ton. (This is from the Overman.)

"The only positive information on this point in the possession of the writer is based upon the prices from July 7, 1869, to Jan. 10, 1870, when, according to the official accounts, there were 11,392 tons of ore crushed, producing $166,696 04, or an average per ton of $14 63."

Could that ore .pay a profit, after paying the royalty of $2 a ton under the act of Congress to the Sutro tunnel?

A. It is generally conceded that the extraction of the ore and the milling, where the mine is at great depth, say 1,200 feet, would cost ahout $20 a ton. This was not obtained from a great depth, but from a depth of 700 feet. I should think it would cost them nearly that amount to mill and mine, and that they could hardly afford to pay a royalty out of the production at that rate.

Q. When you speak of milling, do you mean to say that it costs the mill so much per ton to reduce the ore, or do you mean to say that the mine pays to the mill so much per ton?

A. I mean to say that the mine pays to the mill and to the persons who convey the ore to the mills, in gross, about $ 12 a ton. That covers the transportation and the amount that is paid to the mill owners for obtaining the ore from the rock.

Mr. SUTRO. May I ask the General a question right here?

Mr. SESSIONS. If Mr. Sunderland is willing.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have no objection now, hut generally I don't want to be interrupted.

Mr. SUTRO. General, you say you have never been at the Overman mine?

A. I haven't examined i,t. I don't recollect.

Q. What had you found out about the cost of mining and the mining difficulties there? How can you tell whether they can afford to pay any royalty or not?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, I object to the question.

Mr. SUTRO. On what grounds?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, I don't want to be interrupted.

Mr. SUTRO. I have asked permission to ask this question, and it has been granted, hasn't it, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, then, go on.

Mr. SUTRO. Then I put the question.

Mr. FOSTER. I know as much about it as any person who goes to a locality and ascertains from testimony and documents what it costs generally to mill and mine: who compares the depth of this mine, as stated, with the depths of other mines, and considers the cost of mining, and exercises his judgment -to institute a comparison.

Mr. SUTRO. General Foster, you say you have not been at that mine. You do not know anything about the quantity of water in that mine. You do not know anything about the circumstances of that mine. There is no royalty to pay, unless the tunnel is in and drains the mine. Now, how can you judge whether they can afford to pay that royalty or not, not knowing anything about these things.

A. Well, I must be my own judge as to whether I can form a judgment, and not you.

Q. You have just stated that you haven't been to that mine.

A. No; I beg your pardon. I said that I hadn't examined it.

Q. Well, what do you know about it, then?

A. I have just stated what I know about it.

Q. Do you know anything about the condition of the water in that mine?

A. No.

Q. That is all.

Mr. SUKDERLAND. I believe, General, that you base the advantages of this tunnel, so far as the Comstock lode is concerned, upon two propositions : one of which is the feasibility of reducing all the ore at the mouth of the tunnel by power from the water of the Carson river; and the other, to concentrate or work by other means, not now known in this country, the ores at a less expense than they are now worked ?

Q. Yes, sir; those two points we considered as forming an essential part of the whole project.

Q. Those twc*things alone, as I understand, were principally to benefit the Comstock. ISTow I am talking about the Comstock lode, I will ask you if all the water power on Carson" river, from the first fall that it has after turning into the valley, to the last fall it has in its course, is not now utilized by means of mills upon the river?

A. Well, I think not all. I think there is a fall below the Merrimack mill, at which point it is contemplated to erect a new mill, which will, however, utilize, when constructed, all the water power.

Q. All the power in the mill?

A. Yes, sir. It is proposed to erect a mill, to be called the Excelsior mill, which will take all the remaining water power in that locality. 9

Q. And that power connected with the Vivian, which is a little mill just below?

A. I believe that is the name ; yes, sir.

Q. I will ask you whether it is riot cheaper to utilize the water power in that river by a succession of dams and mills than it is to build one immense dam, and take all the water out in one race or flume?

A. Yes, sir; I should think it would be, as far as the mere point of gaining power is concerned.

Q. Do you know whether the land adjacent to and on each side of the river, and the water rights upon it, have been acquired by the parties in possession?

A. I have been told that such was the fact.

Q. Patents issued to the property?

A. I have been told so; yes, sir. The commission were informed so by some of the parties that owned the privileges.

Q. Do you know anything about this idea of concentrating ore, as has been suggested by Mr. Sutro?

A. Since the idea was started, or since it was entertained by the commission in connection with the project as an essential part of it, we directed our attention to acquiring all the information possible in* time for our report upon that subject. We visited the mines at Franklin, Pennsylvania, where they had reduction works in operation that are said to be like those that are used in Germany and in the Cornwall, in England. We also visited the Lehigh Zinc Works, near Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, where it was said that machines were used in Germany that were similar to those; and I believe they were imported from Germany— the plans and descriptions at least. We saw* that a considerable reduction was made, but we were not satisfied that the machines that were used would be of service upon the Comstock lode. We also sought information from mining engineers in New York, and obtained a good deal of information that way. That, however, we had to receive verbally, as merely personal testimony. We saw articles in the scientific journals describing those machines, stating the saving that could be made by their use in the extraction of the ore. We had no further evidence than that.

Q. General, I guess you have used a term there you didn't intend to — extracting of the ore. That means extracting from the mines?

A. I mean concentrating of the ore. We visited the American Institute, and saw one or two machines there—- new inventions — said to be improvements upon the German machine; and I believe them to be improvements. We

thought perhaps they might be used, hut we were not positive; we couldn't tell.

Q. In what way would the concentration of ores cheapen their reduction ?

A. In this way: After the rock has been pounded up, pulverized, reduced to a state of pulp, the ore can be concentrated in a certain part, so that only a portion need be treated for the extraction of the metal, allowing the rest to be thrown away, as being far below the standard. It is merely a saving of labor and machinery in the operation. The increased richness of the concentrations requires greater care and expense per ton in saving the metal than are required in the reduction of the ores as practiced at the mills in Nevada.

Q. You will lose some of the metal in concentrating, I suppose? You don't save it all?

A. You lose metal. Yes, sir. I can hardly answer that question. It would probably take more quicksilver to the ton. The loss would be something considerable in that respect. In discarding the crushed portion of the ore — the pu]p that is not to be treated at all — we lose so much : that is loss.

Q. Now, I will ask you, General, if there is any advantage in concentrating ores before amalgamation or other treatment beyond concentration ? I want to know if there is any advantage in concentrating the ores of the Comstock lode, whether it cannot be done just as cheaply at the mills, as they now exist upon the Carson river, as it could at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. With proper machinery, I think the reduction and extraction of the metal could be done as cheaply in one place as the other.

Q. Well, I didn't, as a matter of course, mean to say that there was any machinery there now for concentrating. I mean to say that with the power there, and all the appliances of machinery for concentration, couldn't the work be done just as cheaply there as at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. Yes, sir; I thvnk it could, just as cheaply.

Q. Will it cost any more to prepare the work for concentration at the different mills than it will at the mouth of the tunnel — the different mills on the Carson river?

A. I should think there would be very little difference in the cost in either case; very little difference. But if there is an advantage, it would be onthe side of having the concentration works all together, I should think, because you build a large establishment much cheaper in proportion than you can several small ones of the same combined capacity.

Q. Did you visit the Eureka mill, in process of construction on the Carson river, while you were there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know what the capacity of the mill will be when completed?

A. I cannot tell now. I made notes of the capacity of every mill and of its condition, and the note-books are in the possession of General Wright, the senior officer of the commission.

Q. Do you remember the fall at the Eureka mill ?

A. I do not.

Q. Do you remember the estimated cost of the mill?

A. JSTo, sir; we visited so many mills, and they were all so very nearly alike. There was very little difference between them. I made particular notes of the capacity, cost, and value of each mill, but I have not those notes with me.

Q. Well, it had the foundation of a large mill, had it not — the largest one in that country?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. At that particular mill, would it be any more expense to attach to the power there the machinery for concentration than it would anywhere else ?

A. I should think not.

Q. Did you visit the Brunswick mill, in process of reconstruction ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Would there be any more expense there ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Any more expense at the Mexican mill?

A. The Mexican mill is being

• Q. The Mexican mill is the mill at Empire City; 44 stamps ?

A. No, sir; there would be no trouble in attaching the additional machinery at any one of those mills.

Q. Any good-sized mill, I suppose you mean?

A. Any mill of sufficient capacity.

Mr. SUTRO. Will you please state, Mr. Sunderland, what you refer to — what concentration — the concentration of what ? ' Mr. SUNDERLAND. Ore.

Mr. SUTRO. The concentration of ore, is it?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, sir; what we have been talking about. ]$Towr there is another question connected with this, the practicability of getting the water from the Carson river to the mouth of the tunnel. Have you made any estimate yourself upon the cost of that work, General?

Mr. FOSTER. We made some very rough estimates; nothing in detail. We entered into no details with regard to it. We left that to General Day, whom Mr. Sutro engaged to have make the estimates; and he has rendered mere skeleton estimates of the sum in gross. I have made a few figures, to estimate the cost of building a large embankment, in order to strengthen the center of the dam, which would have to be made impervious to water, and considered it necessary that it should be embanked on both sides: strongly embanked with rock, blasted from the mountains on either side. The center of the dam can be strongly padded, and it may also be made of plank. The cost of such a dam, laid as cheaply as I could make it, would be somewhat more than General Day has estimated, but not a very large sum.

Q. What is the highest dam which you have seen or know anything about in the United States?

A. I can hardly answer that question. I have seen the Lowell dam and the Philadelphia dam. I should say, not over 60 feet.

Q. This is to be 155 feet, I believe; isn't it?

A. That is the idea ; yes, sir.

Q. "Where is it proposed to build that dam, General?

A. The site was not definitely fixed. It might be built near the Franklin mill, about 700 yards above it, or still farther up the river, where there is a narrow gorge. It could be built best where the river is narrowest, and where the mountains on either side would furnish the requisite amount of rock.

Q. I believe I understood you to say that you were informed while there that all the land and the water power along that river were private property?

A. I don't recollect being informed that the land' was private property. The water privileges, I was told, were owned by private parties. I don't know whether the water privileges and thejand go together or not. Sometimes they do not.

Q. What property would that dam .flood ?

A. It would flood everything back to the Mexican dam.

Q. What property is on the river above the Franklin dam and the Mexican ?

A. The Eureka mill, the Franklin mill, the Brunswick mill, the Excelsior mill. I don't recollect any other mills.

Q. Mexican?

A. Yes, and the Mexican.

Q. The Morgan mill, or Yellow Jacket?

A. Oh, yes; the Yellow Jacket.

Q. Vivian?

A. Yes; I had forgotten that.

Q. Did you name Merrimack?

A. Yes, the Merimack. It would flood the ground occupied by all of those mills.

Q. Would it not flood the town of Empire City?

A. It might do so, sir.

Q. Isn't there a fall there, General, of over 20 feet, at the Mexican mill? .

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that mill built upon a level with the town? Is the foundation pretty near on a level with the town?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then, if it floods the country back to the Mexican dam, it must necessarily flood Empire City?

A. The flood would be up to the base of the dam. You couldn't flood to the top of the dam, because that would destroy the power of the Empire mill.

Q. Well, I should suppose it would destroy all these mills?

A. N"o, sir; it would destroy all up to the Mexican. You have the flood going to the base of the dam.

Q. Is that the proposition ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Just look at that, General. [Exhibiting draught.] I think you are mistaken about that. I think that is the top of the Mexican dam.

A. E"o ; it don't siate so here. It shows the height of dam at level of Mexican dam; but the intention was to flood back to the base of the dam, so as to allow the Mexican mill to run with its present power, and to avoid flooding Empire City, if possible. That was the idea. I don't, know whether General Day took his levels at the top of the dam or not ; but the idea was to take the levels at the bottom of the dam.

Q. What is the population of Empire City?

A. I do not know.

Q. Several hundred ?

A. I should judge it to be two or three hundred; yes, sir. It is a very small settlement.

Q. Do you remember the depths of these main shafts while you were out there, General ? .

A. ISTo, sir; I cannot give them exactly. They were all given upon the map that we sent in with our report. I can give the depths of some of them.

Q. The last report of the Gould and Curry company, made 25th of December, 1871, says, that during the year two compartments of the shaft have been sunk 294 feet, rnaking

the entire depth 1,485 feet, or, measuring from section A, at croppings, 1,685 feet?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Ho\v much is that above the tunnel level ?

Mr. SUTRO. What shaft is that, General ?

Mr. FOSTER. The Gould and Curry.

Mr. SUTRO. From what point are those 1,685 feet?

Mr. FOSTER. Point A.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. There is the depth you give in your report on page 5.

Mr. FOSTER, 1,898, close to 1,900.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Gall it 1,900.

Mr. SUTRO. "Where is that 1,685 derived from?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. From the report of the superintendent of the Gould and Curry.

Mr. SUTRO. Is that the statement of the superintendent of the Gould and Curry mine ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, sir. [To Mr. Foster.] Now, if this same progress of 294 feet in a year continues to be made in the sinking of that shaft, how long will it take to reach the level of the tunnel?

Mr. FOSTER. About nine months.

Q. Do you remember the depth of the Savage shaft ?

A. No, sir; I do not. It is given here as 1,262 feet. They haven't got down much beyond that.

Q. Do you know on what level this ore was struck here within the last few weeks?

A. No, sir. If I recollect aright, it was on the 1,300-foot level.

Mr. SUTRO. It is on the 1,400-foot level. That's where it is. The llth station.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Do you know the depth of the Hale and Norcross shaft ?

A. No, sir. It is given as 1,397 feet. I don't know what it is now. All these depths are given upon the maps that we sent with our report.

Q. Do you remember the depth of the Crown Point shaft?

A. Yes, sir; 1,500 feet.

Q. From where?

A. From Point A ; 1,500 feet. The Crown Point is now down about 1,700 feet from the Point A.

Q. That's about it. It is over that, however; but it is near enough. Do you know what progress they make in the sinking of these shafts? But I will ask you about* the Imperial. Did you go into that ?

A. JSTo, sir; I did not.

Q. "Were you told anything about the depth of that shaft ?

A. No, sir.

Q. What was the general progress made in the sinking of those shafts per year? How long did it take to sink a hundred feet — one level ?

A. They progress from three to six feet a day, about a mean of three feet a day.

Q. Then supposing it were to take three years to get the tunnel in, at what level would these shafts be when the tunnel gets in — the principal shafts?

A. They would be below the tunnel.

Q. How far?

A. They would be at this rate from 250 to 500 feet.

Q. Then of what advantage could that tunnel be to the mines whose shafts were below the tunnel level ?

A. It would have this advantage : What water is found below that in the bottom of the shafts could be pumped up and run out of the tunnel, instead of being pumped from the tunnel level to the surface.

Q. Or to the adit, where the water is now discharged ?

A. Yes, sir. And the same thing with regard to the ore. The ore could be carried out through the tunnel, instead of being raised from the tunnel level to the surface, as at present.

Q. Do you know what charge is made under this act of Congress for mining the ore out?

A. It is 25 cents a mile per ton.

Q. Does it cost anything like that to raise ore from a depth of 1,900 feet to the top of these shafts ?

A. The meaii cost of raising ore from 1,000 to 1,300 feet depth is 51 cents a ton.

Q. Well, continue it down to the tunnel level ?

A. At tunnel level the expense was estimated at 75 cents per ton.

Q. What would it cost to run it through the tunnel under the act of Congress ?

A. $1 25.

Q. There could be no advantages for ventilation below the tunnel level, in consequence of the tunnel, could there?

A. I don't see any over-shafts connected. I don't see ' that there would be any advantage by the tunnel over the present system of working below the tunnel level.

Q. I want to read now a part of this contract between the Sutro Tunnel Company and these different mines, in order to lay the foundation for one question.

" During the time when said party of the second part shall use said tunnel or drifts as means of transportation, as hereinbefore contracted for, the party of the second part will pay to the parties of the first part, for each ton of ore, rock, earth, or debris removed from the point hereinbefore designated to or beyond the mouth of the tunnel, as the case may be, the sum of twenty-five cents per mile, from the place of removing it to the place of discharging it, and, at the same time, for all material conveyed from the mouth of the tunnel to said point of connection heretofore described, forty cubic feet of timber, or 2,240 pounds of rock, ore, or other material, being considered a ton, and will also pay the said parties of the first part the sum of seventy-five cents each way for each man conveyed to and from said point at the request of or on nccount of the said second party; all laborers, employe's, agents, and other persons connected with said corporations of the second part to be' included and paid for as above stated."

Mr. SUTRO. May I ask, Mr. Sunderland, what you are reading from ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The contract between Congress and the Sutro Tunnel Company. Then there are several provisos, among which is this:

" Provided furtJier. That no such payment shall be due or made until the works of the parties of the first part shall have either actually drained said mine, so as to obviate the necessity for all other modes of drainage, or shall be prosecuted to the extent in the next article mentioned, which shall be deemed and considered sufficient drainage within the meaning of this agreement.

" ART. XIII. It if mutually agreed that the true intent and meaning of these articles, as to the, draining of the mine of the party of the second part, are, that whenever the said. mine is actually drained by the works of paid first parties, so as to render all other drainage useless to the lowest level attained by the works of the said party of the second part, but not lower than to the Jevel of the tunnel, the same shall be deemed a full compliance with the

covenant of the parties of the first part for the drainage thereof, and whether said mine be so drained or not, it shall be deemed and considered drained within the meaning of this agreement, in either of the following events:

"If the main tunnel shall intersect the Comstock lode, and cut the eastern wall thereof between the north and south boundaries of the mine of the said second party, the mine shall be considered drained.

"Or it shall be considered drained if the main tunnel shall cut said eastern wall outside of those lines, and the parties of the first part shall extend the lateral drift hereinbefore covenanted to be extended within said Comstock vein, to a point equidistant from such north and south boundaries.

" Or it shall be considered drained upon the expiration of three months after the parties of the first part shall have extended said drift outside. of said lode,, but within five hundred feet east of the west wall thereof, to a point not more than five hundred feet east of said west wall, whence a drift at right angles would enter said lode at a point equidistant from the northern and southern boundaries of the claim of the second party."

That would make it necessary, General, would it not, for each mining company to run a drift 500 feet east, to meet this tunnel?

A. From the west wall?

Q. From the west wall.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, then, how much less expense would it be to connect all these principal shafts of the Comstock with each other than to run that drift east to this tunnel?

A. It would be, taking the principal mines — the Overman, the Belcher, the Crown Point, and the Yellow Jacket — somewhat more difficult; it would involve more work to connect the shafts than it Would to run out to the tunnel.

Q. Not much more?

A. About 400 feet.

Q. Four hundred feet more?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know, General, whether, to get ventilation, it is necessary to connect on each level of say 100 feet?

A. To get ventilation in the shafts ?

Q. To get ventilation in the works, in the stopes, in the drifts — everywhere in the mines.

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHOBER. May I ask what you mean by connecting it?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Kunning a drift from one to the other. I would like to have the committee— any member of it — ask a question at any time when suggested, because the

matter can be easily explained, if there is any misunderstanding. What else is done there, in order to get ventilation in the mines, besides running these drifts from one shaft to another? Are there any winzes made from one level to another?

A. Yes, sir; winzes are made to connect one drift that is above another — a vertical connection.

Q. Would a single horizontal connection, by means of a drift between one shaft and another, be of any considerable benefit to a mine by way of ventilation ?

A. It would ventilate thoroughly the shafts and this connecting drift, but it would not necessarily ventilate any other portions of the mines.

Q. Were you in any drifts there connecting different shafts, where the current of air was so strong that it was necessary to put up doors to break the force of it?

A. Yes, sir; that is between the Crown Point and the Yellow Jacket.

Q. On what level?

A. I think it was the 940-foot level.

Q. How far outside of that drift did you feel the effect of the current of air that was passing through the drift?

A. Well, only a few feet. As we stepped into the branching drifts we only felt it a few feet.

Q. Then, as I understand you, after getting this current of air from one shaft to another, it is necessary to direct it down through winzes, from one level to another? •

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In order to get it in the part of the mine where the men are at work?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, can you, by any possibility, with or without a tunnel, get air into the stopes after you get a few floors above the track floor, or in the fall of a drift, where you are prospecting a new drift, except by artificial means, by pumping or blowing?

A. Not that I know of. It is thought to be the only method known on the Comstock lode, by blowers, and I 9

can see no other way of working those places, those stopes and headings of drifts.

Q. Now, General, I will get you to look at those maps here, [exhibiting maps,] and tell the committee whether it is possible, by any means in the world, to ventilate all that space that is represented here as worked out?

A. Yes, sir, it would be possible.

Q. How would you do it?

A. In the first place, the bottoms of all the shafts must be connected, as shown upon the map here. They must also be connected at these different levels right through. Then, in addition, the connections must be made between the drifts of different levels, one hundred or two hundred feet apart, vertically connecting them down at their extremities. That would induce a circulation through all the drifts— by means of these winzes — and through ail the shafts.

Q. Suppose that this means of ventilating the whole Comstock were used, and that enough air came through the tunnel to fill the whole of the lode, as it is worked out and shown on these maps, could any man stand up in that tunnel?

A. The current of air would be very strong. , I don't know whether the capacity of the tunnel might not be sufficient to allow a pretty good draught, there, without throwing a man down. It would be very strong. The size of the tunnel is about 14 feet by 13.

Q. That is larger than the contract provides for. I don't know what it is now.

A. It would produce a very strong draught in the tunnel.

Q. It would be difficult to work in it, would it not?

A. Well, I don't see why it wouldn't be difficult. The draught would be very strong.

Q. General, how wide did you see bodies of ore worked?

A. I saw the Crown Point bonanza; that was 80 feet wide.

Q. Is there any disposition of the ground on either side,

or both sides, to cave or fall in? Is it necessary to protecf the sides of the veins?

A. No, sir; on one side not. The west-country rock was the sidfeof Mount Davidson. The east-country rock was difficult to retain in place. It overhung the vein. That had to he retained in its place by supports.

Q. Is it possible to work that mine any winery, where ore is taken out, with*ut timbering?

A. No, sir; I should say not. As soon as ore is taken out, the space left must be filled with timbering.

Q. Is it possible for any amount of timber, any reasonable amount of 'solid timber, to stand, without the spaces between the timber being filled up?

A. No, sir; considering the swelling of the rock, it would be apt to throw it oveV.

Q. Is it usual, and do you consider it prudent, to fill up each floor as you ascend from the track floor up — to fill up with debris, waste rock, dirt, earth, in between the timbers?

A. Well, it would have to be done. I don't know whether it would be safe or not without.

Q. It is done, isn't it?

A. It has to be done?

Q. All got to be filled in ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, you were asked trie other evening by Mr. Sutro whether the timbers wouldn't last much longer under other circumstances, and I believe the conclusion arrived at was that they would last thirty years.

A. In such a locality, if there were proper ventilation ?

Q. Yes, sir?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, then, is it possible to ventilate these mines, after they have been worked out in this way and filled in, so as to preserve the timbers ?

A.' No, sir.

Q. Yon became fully well acquainted with the superintendents \vhileyou were out there, did you not?

A. Yes, sir; we were constantly thrown together. We sought information constantly from them, and became quite well acquainted with them,

Q. Taking them generally, were they men <tf character and intelligence?

A. Yes, sir; decidedly so. They were men of character and standing, and men that were entitled to the confidence certainly of their employers and t>f the public, I think.

Q. Did you hear anything said against them while you were there; any of them at all?

A. Not generally ; no, sir.

Q. You have been asked if these men were not coerced. At least, that is the substance of the question — whether they were not coerced into making these reports?

Mr. SUTRO. That question was never asked.

Mr. SUKDERLAND. Did you see anything while you were there to indicate or lead you to suspect anything of the kind?

A. I saw nothing that would lead me to suppose that any coercion had been exercised at all. One party came to us to give us information, who stated he was a miner, and that he came to give us information privately, and that he did not wish his name mentioned in any way, because it might injure his prospects with his employers. That was the only case.

Q. He was not a superintendent?

A. No, sir; a miner.

Q. A common miner?

A. Yes, sir. But I don't know that he was a common miner. He was either a common miner or a foreman.

Q. What was your judgment as to the manner in which the mines were worked there? Did anything suggest itself to your mind that would be an improvement upon the present mode of working the mines? . A. Well, yes, sir. We thought of several matters that might be improved upon.

Q. What were they, general?

A. "We thought that compressed air could be used to advantage and with economy in working in the drifts and shafts, and that lower stations might be established, and engines run by compressed air sent down from the surface, thus very much increasing the economy of working and prospecting in the mines.

Q. Could that be done as well with as without the tunnel?

A. Yes, sir; I think it could.

Q. Aside from that, are the mines intelligently worked?

A. They appeared to be.

Q. What kind of energy is displayed in the working of the mines and prospecting for ore?

A. I should say very great. They appeared to understand their business, and to be working for the purpose of making just as much money for their different companies as they possibly could.' In those mines where they were getting out ore they were making everything jump. They were taking out of the Crown Point, for instance, 250 tons a day with hemp ropes.

Q. This report of Captain Day has been criticized. I think very likely some members of the committee may have been misled. Look at page 28 of the report. I will get you to state, so that it may go down in the written testimony, what Captain Day says is the actual cost of the construction of the shaft from 720 feet to 1,002 feet, being 282 feet, the total advance. What is the total cost per foot?

A. Total cost per foot $74 31J.

Q. While you were there did he profess to know anything about the cost of any other portion of the shafts than that upon which he reports?

A. No, sir; I understood him to give the data that he professed to know was correct from his own knowledge.

Q. Do you know how long he had been superintendent of that mine?

A. No, sir; I think not long, however.

Q. Did you understand from him whether he ever sunk that distance or iiot — that 282 feet?

A. That was what I understood.

Q. That was what he himself had sunk?

A. Yes, sir; that is about a year's work.

Q. "Well, now, suppose the company had levied the assessments spoken of by Mr. Sutro the other evening, and expended the money claimed by him, would that change your opinion of the correctness of this statement of facts by Captain Day?

A. No, sir; the items of cost are given clearly, with the amounts for each.

Q. You don't know how much money has been expended in litigation, do you?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you learn anything while you were there about the cost of lawsuits in early times?

A. Yes, sir; I heard them talking generally about the large sums expended in lawsuits.

Q. You heard amongst other things, I suppose, about importing Professor Silliman out there to testify in cases?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, I suppose you know there may be large expenditures in a mine in that country, where titles are uncertain, and where there are adverse claims of title to the same property, outside of the mere sinking of a shaft, or running of a drift ?

A. I believe that is given in King's report.

Mr. SHOBER. You mean outside expenditures, General?

Mr. FOSTER. All the items of expense. It shows that very clearly.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I wish you would find that, General, if you can. v

Mr. FOSTER. Here is the Savage mine. I can give that.

Q. Just state it.

A. This gives the cost for three years, 1867, 1868, and 1869. Will the last year be sufficient ?

Q. Yes.

A. It is this:

"Cost of officials $22,123 83

Extracting ore 158,675' 75

Materials 'ibr extracting ore : 53,406 61

Prospecting and dead work, labor !. 34,838 00

Prospecting and dead work, materials 23,394 31

Accessory work, labor 79,398 62

Accessory work, materials .' 50,914 86

Improvements, labor... 7,105 50

Improvements, materials , 9,426 00

Total cost of mining, labor 297,141 70

Total cost of mining, materials 157,141 78"

Then come the incidentals:

"Assaying ore , .' $3,528 19

Assaying bullion 8,740 82

Surveying 1,850 00

Office expenses 1,157 60

Exchange 3,254 70

Housekeeping 2,843 15

Legal expenses 2,20'0 00

Taxes 19,486 73

Sundries P 3,017 19

Making the total cost of production 480,361 86"

That is for the Savage mine. The Hale and ^Torcross is given on the other page.

Q. Well, that will be sufficient. I wanted to show that tfrere are other expenses than sinking a -shaft.0' There was some question made as to the accuracy 'of the estimate here for the cost of raising ore, on the basis of raising 216 tons a day. It is on page 29. It is 216 tons, 1,750 feet, 29 j\ cents a ton. Is there anything in that report of Captain Day to show that that is anything but a mere estimate. Is that stated to be the actual cost of raising ore from that mine, or did you so understand it when you were there?

A. This report was made to us after we left. In considering it, we at first took the idea that that was the actual cost; but, upon looking at it again, we saw at once what it was: that it was intended to be an estimate only.

Q. An estimate of what it would cost ?

A. What it would cost under the circumstances stated here.

Q. If he had that much ore to raise ?

A. Yes. And not the actual cost of anything they were

getting out of the mine. The items of expense are given there. They comprise the wages of the engineers, firemen, and wood haulers, the cost of wood and materials, and the interest on machinery, and the wear and tear of machinery.

Q. What do you think of that estimate now, not only from that report, but from what you saw at other mines, and from what you learned of the cost of raising ore where there is that quantity to be raised from the mines ?

A. I think, if the ore is hoisted in the way he describes, by using a double cage, one going up while the other is going down, under the circumstances he sets forth, it is a fair statement, as far as I can judge.

Q. On page 30 he gives the actual cost of pumping from the 700-foot level?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. With the items of expense ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you any reason to doubt the accuracy of that report?

A. No, sir. I have looked those items over carefully, and the amounts put (jlpwn beside each, and I think they are fair and reasonable. I think it would cost as much as stated.

Q. He states as a fact that that is what it costs, that that was the actual cost?

A. The prices are reasonable. Ttye statement bears upon its face every indication of being truthful.

Q. On the same page he gives you the decrease of water from June, 1870, to May, 1871. What was the information that you derived while there of the decrease in the quantity of water in descending in the mines, generally?

A. It was reported to us while we were there, and also was stated in their reports that we received afterwards, that, as a general thing, as you went down the quantity of water steadily diminished, and in some mines it had entirely disappeared and the mines were dry. The only water that was in some of these mines was what they call seepage

from above:, in other words, the percolation of the surface water down the shafts.

Q. From your information as to the decrease of water in going down, is there anything unreasonable in the statement of Captain Day, that in twelve months the water decreased from eighteen inches to seven ?

A. No, sir ; there is not.

Q. Did you ever observe, General, a well in the street, at the upper end of Gold Hill, just at the right in going down from Virginia City, just above where the mines have been worked, not quite so far from the west as where they were worked on top, but pitching to the east, so that they must necessarily have been worked under the well ? Did you not observe that well while you were there?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know, or did you learn, while you were there, as to what retained the water. First I will ask, in your opinion where does the water found in the Comstock come from ?

A. It is apparently surface water, and the water seamed to be held near the surface, i -i<

Q. By what ?

A. By means of clay seams intersecting each other, and forming bowls or reservoirs. In these bowls or reservoirs the water was held, and it was only when these reservoirs were tapped or penetrated, that the water ran out Into the mines.

Q. Then, when a reservoir is exhausted ?

A. They fiad no more water until they tap another one.

Q. I understand you to say that these come less frequently as you descend into the lode ?

A. Yes, less frequently and of less magnitude.

Mr. SHOBER. Was the quantity of water in these bowls large?

A. Yes, sir ; very large in some cases, taking days and weeks sometimes to free the mine from the water that would pour in. It would defy the pumps for a long time, but eventually the pumps would get ahead, and finally

clear the mines entirely. That was the case in the Savage and Hale and Norcross.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. In criticizing the accuracy of Captain Day's report, Mr. Sutro read an extract from that report, on the 26th page, in reference to taking the men in through the tunnel. He says:

"We have, to begin with, (page 19, Sutro tunnel,) 3,000 miners to carry to and from their work an average distance from the mouth of the tunnel of ibur and a half miles." .

Now, that tunnel comes in nearly at right angles to the Comstock, does it not?

A. Yes, sir; nearly at right angles.

Q. I understand the idea to be, that there is to be an endless chain here, to which chain is to be attached cars to carry the men in?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do they go beyond the point of intersection of1 the tunnel and the lode?

A. Yes, sir,

Q. How are you going to get round here a mile and a half or two miles below? - >*u ^

A. Oh, they can easily carry the endless cifain any distance, or they can have other chains to take up.

Q. Well, now, when you get your men in here at the end of the main tunnel, half of them will probably want to go north and half of them south. How are you going to distribute them?

A. Well, that is a detail that I haven't thought of. I don't know what their idea is, but that could be arranged by having two stationary engines here, one to run this portion and one to run that portion, and then a third one at the mouth to run the cars on the straight course.

Q. Well, then, when you get in here, that would necessitate the stopping and changing of course?

A. Ko, sir. They can run them right along.

Q. They cannot run both ways?

A. Well; the chain runs up that way and comes down this.

Q. I understand that. But for the branches you have to have another chain?

A. The track will carry the cars right round. The brakeman will let go the rope here, from the leading car, which carries the train, and the momentum will carry it round so that he can catch hold of that rope.

Q. Then what do these men do that go up here two miles?

A. They must have a switch here, and they will switch off. Certain cars 'must go one way and certain cars the other. These rear cars switch off, and they have less speed, so that they can change the speed in time to turn them in there in order to go their way. I think that could be arranged.

Q. Well, then, when they get in here, suppose they get in without changing cars at all. They get round here to this point, [indicating on map.] There are several mines along here where they have got to stop.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then they have got to get in a cage, and either go up or down to get to the point where they have to work. Don't you think that would take a longer time than to go down the shafts as they do now ?

A.. Yes, it would take longer. It wouldn't take much longer. It would take them, probably, to go five miles, thirty minutes.

Q. Well, we must remember that there is but one opening where all the miners have got to get into the Comstock, whereas, as now worked, each mine has its own shaft to let its men down in.

Mr. SUTRO. Will you please let the General answer your question, Mr. Sunderland ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I always give him time enough. I certainly don't meai\ to go on without it. I thought he had answered.

Mr. SUTRO. Your question was about ohe entrance to the Comstock, and the General made no reply to it.

Mr. FOSTER. What was the question? I didn't understand.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I merely remarked that, going through the tunnel, there was but one aperture through which you could get into the Comstock.

A. Only one.

Q. As matters are now, you get down into every mine through its own shaft?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you think that it costs the mining companies, to lower their men, twenty-five cents, or twenty-five cents to hoist them out of the mine?

A. No, sir.

Q. Does it cost three cents?

A. We estimated that it would cost more than that. We estimated that it would cost eight cents. That was upon the supposition that ten men went down in the two cages.

Q. On a double cage? ,< A. On a double cage.

Q. Now, I get it up to twice that many going down ?

A. I am not sure that more could not go; but when I went down there were only five on a cage, and we were pretty well crowded.

Q. Well, now, in taking timbers in, the charges allowed, under this contract, are twenty-five cents a thousand, giving the number of cubic feet as I read you this evening — I mean a ton. Does it cost anything like that to lower the timbers at present?

A. 1 should think not. I don't know what the cost is, though. I should think not.

Q. Well, it requires no power to lower a cage down, does it?

A. No, sir. The power is exerted ;to check its velocity, and prevent its going too fast. No, sir; I think timber can be lowered atf the rate of ten to twelve cents a ton by the shafts of the mines.

Q. You were asked here whether it would cost as much

to float timbers down the Carson river to the mouth of the tunnel, or to a point opposite to the mouth of the tunnel, as it does to take them to Virginia City and Gold Hill, as they are conveyed there now. I will read you the question :

" Q. Do you think, General Foster, that it would cost as much to deliver timber from the mouth of the tunnel, by floating it down the river, as it would to carry it from Virginia City?

"A. No, sir.

"Q. Mr. Day says it would cost more, because it is farther off. Do you know at how much less cost it could be delivered at the mouth of the tunnel than at Virginia City ?

"A. No, sir; I do not know. Just as much cheaper as floating timber down is cheaper than carrying it on a railroad."

Q. Do you know, General, whether it has been done — floating timbers down the river ?

A. It certainly can be done, if a flume is prepared for the purpose, and the canal extended directly to the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. With the present obstructions in the river, is it possible to float any timbers down at all?

A. Not as the arrangement is now ; no, sir.

Q. Then, before timbers can be floated down there, it would be necessary to acquire a title to that property along the river of the men who have a right to and do obstruct the river?

A. Well, it would be necessary to provide a water flume of some kind.

Mr. SESSIONS. Outside of the river?

A. Yes, sir; outside and parallel to it. Whether that would involve the getting of titles to the water privileges I am not able to say. But a water flume would have to be provided.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. And in order to make a flume outside of the river, you must take so much water from the river and the mills that are there now?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The chairman of the committee, the other evening, asked a question, which presupposes the existence of a certain state of facts on the Comstock, amongst which was

considerable ignorance on the part of everybody living out there; and I want to have your opinion about it:

"In a geological poiht of view, as a question of national importance, to determine the richness of the mines and to pursue a systematic method by v/hich that can be attained, and cutoff these experiments that are making in a fugitive manner, owing to limited capital, lack of experience, organizations fraught with jealousies, and perhaps a lack of skilled labor, would it not be of very great advantage to the country and to the world to determine the richness of these lodes at a great depth at the national expense?"

N"ow, in the first place, I want to ask you if experiments upon the Comstock are made in a fugitive manner?

A. Well, not apparently at this time; the mining is pretty systematic there now.

Mr. SESSIONS. What do you mean by "fugitive?" In what sense is that word used?

Mr. SUNDBRLAND. It was used by a member of the committee.

Mr. SESSIONS. Bid he intend by it that it was mere guesswork, at hap-hazard ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I suppose so.

Mr. SESSIONS. I recollect the expression he made.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. u Owing to a limited capital." Did you see any evidence of a want of capital on the Comstock for working, or making any necessary improvements for forwarding the interests of the mine owners ?

Mr. FOSTER. No, sir; I saw no evidence of any Want of capital.

Q. On the contrary, did you not see every evidence that all the capital required was to be -had? Next, " lack of experience." Did you see any want of experience by men who were in charge of the mines?

A. No, sir. They appeared to b'e thoroughly competent and thoroughly versed in the business, as far as I could judge.

Q. Men who had been engaged in mining, I suppose, generally, for some years, were they not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. "Organizations fraught with jealousies." Do you know of any jealousies existing there between different organizations, or between different individuals, that have

interfered with the effectual working of any of the mines?

A. Well, I can't say that I do, or that I heard of any.

Q. There are jealousies, I suppose, everywhere; but I want to know whether those jealousies interfere with the effective and effectual working of the mines ?

A. No, sir; -I cannot say that I know of any case in which we heard anything of that kind while we were out there. We heard of strikes for the possession of the stock of different mines

Q. As a matter of course.

A. And of mine owners, hut I do not know that they interfered with the effective working of those mines.

Q. Was there any lack of skilled labor there?

A. No, sir. There was the greatest abundance of that.

Q. I will read now from a speech of Mr. Sutro, which you have attached to your report, on page 64 :

"The tunnel, they know full well/is the key to this mountain and these mines, and will and must control and own this whole district. If that tunnel is constructed by third parties, their monopoly will be utterly broken up and ended."

Now, upon the next page 1 will read you a short extract, the second paragraph from the top :

"Rouse up, then, fellow-citizens. You have no Andrew Jackson among you to crush out the bank which has taken your liberties, but you have the power within yourselves. I do not mean to incite you to any violence; I do not mean to have you assert your rights by riot, force, and threats. That would be unwise, unnecessary, and would only recoil upon yourselves. But I do mean to say that you can destroy your enemy by simple concert 'of action. Let all of you join in together to build the Sutro tunnel; that is the way to reach them. They do already tremble lest you will act; they know you will form a great moneyed power, and that you will own the mines : they know it will cement you together."

I will ask if you heard, while you were there, the .utterance of any feeling to be compared with this?

A. Well, I don't know exactly what you mean, whether you mean the feeling of antagonism?

Q. Yes, sir; such jealousies by one mine toward another, or by any body against the mines, or the men who were working the mines?

A. No, sir. We heard no violent sentiments of that kind uttered. This appears to have been aimed against the Bank of California.

Q. And the owners of the Comstock mines?

A. No, sir; we heard no violent sentiments uttered against either the California Bank or the owners of the mines.

Q. You know there are mines there owned by parties who are not in concord with the Bank of California, don't you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are they equally opposed to the construction of the tunnel upon the terms proposed as the friends of the hank?

A. Well, I cannot say that they are equally opposed. I would hardly like to say that.

Q. Are they opposed to the construction of the tunnel upon the terms proposed, the payment of this royalty and other charges ?

A. Yes, sir; they were opposed to it upon the grounds of the payment' of the royalty.' That appeared to be the great objection with parties who seemed otherwise to be friendly to the tunnel project.

Q. On page 33 of the report is the cost of raising water in the Gould and Curry mine, the statement of General Bat-terman :

"The cost of raising the water in this mine from a depth of 825 feet, also running pump while sinking to 1,300-foot station, has been $60 per day, the quantity of water raised about 3,500 gallons per hour.

"The capacity of the pumps is 6,500 gallons per hour. I estimate the cost of pumping from a depth of 2,000 feet, working pump to full capacity, at $83 60 per day. This estimate includes wood, engineers, fireman, pitman, &c. From this estimate of cost should be deducted the value of the water." >

Then he goes on to give the actual cost of pumping per year, and the value of the water sold. Have you any reason to doubt the accuracy of that statement?

A. No, sir.

Q. Has not General Batterman a great deal of positive character in him?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is he not reputed to be a very reliable man out there ?

A. Yes, sir; very reliable and accurate, and his books, as far as we could judge by casual inspection, appeared to be well kept.

Q. Speaking of books, I don't know whether I asked you or not, but I will now: Did you apply to any body, to any superintendent or clerk of any mine there, for access to any books?

A. Yes, we asked to look at Mr. Batterman's books ; at Colonel Requa's. They were shown us. And General "Wright, Major King, and Professor Newcomb looked at them, but not in the thorough way that Would be necessary to examine them and make detailed statements. I looked also at Colonel Batterman's books, and they appeared to be very detailed, containing the different expenditures under different heads.

Q. The-cost of pumping?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The cost of raising ore?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. The cost of timbers?

A. Yes, and prospecting, accessory work, dead work, and all those heads similar to what I have read in that report.

Q. So that there would be no difficulty, then, in ascertaining the exact amount of the cost in pumping from the works of any company ?

A. I should think not. K"o, sir; no difficulty at all.

Q. NOT the cost of sinking a shaft ?

A. 2sTo, sir; ought not to be. Every penny appeared to have been entered under the appropriate head, whether expended for labor or materials.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I believe I think of nothing else now to ask the General. Some questions may occur to me ; if so, I will ask the chairman to permit me to ask them.

Mr. SHOBER. I would like to ask one question. How deep was the deepest shaft into which you went?

A. It was a little over 1,700 feet below the initial point.

Q. Did you go to the bottom?

A. No, sir; we did not. They had not the arrangements perfected for going down in the incline. We could have climbed down, but as it was 400 feet down on this 10

incline from where we went, 1,100 feet, we did not go to the bottom of it.

Q. What was the temperature as low as you went?

A. The temperature in the Yellow Jacket was about 104° and 105° at 1,100 feet depth. In the Crown Point it was 93° and 94°, the difference being caused by the draught which comes down the Crown Point and through into the Yellow Jacket. The water, the rock, and the air showed by the, thermometer almost the same temperature at the same .points. We tested it. We went to some of the headings where the temperature was 110°.

Q. Did you ascertain at what rate the temperature rises as you descend?

A. We tried to get at that pretty closely. I did not so much as Professor Newcomb, who had a good thermometer with him. We tried it all the way down. As far as we could get at it the rise was an increase of 1° in heat for every 55 feet of descent. We were inclined to believe the statements that at the lower depths it was a little larger increase; that is to say, it would be 1° for every 54 feet, and eventually for every 53 feet as you go down. It has been estimated by English officers that according to that rate 4,000 feet in depth would be the limit at which men could work.

Q. At that rate what would be the temperature at the tunnel level?

A. In a well-ventilated shaft, like the Grown Point, it would be about 97° or 98°.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland, have you closed?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I said so.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, sir, I believe I won't go into any re-cross-examination, but will rest now with General Foster.

Mr. SESSIONS. Have you any more evidence to introduce to-night?

Mr. SUTRO. None to-night. I am told the other commissioners, will be here either to-morrow or next day.

Mr. SESSIONS. Have you anything further, Mr. Sunderland?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have not,

Mr. FOSTER. There was one point, Mr. Chairman, on which I desire to be informed. I do not know whether the committee expected me to make that calculation that was spoken of last night or not.

Mr. SUTRO. It isn't material.

Mr. SESSIONS. If the parties do not wish it, I wouldn't like to put you to the trouble, General.

Mr. SUTRO. I suppose General Foster's testimony will close, then, with this meeting.

Mr. KENDALL. I would like to ask one or two questions of General Foster before we close his examination.. First, General, I would like to ask this question: What would be the effect upon the Comstock lode and the proceeds of mining operations there if there should be erected at the mouth of this tunnel reduction works, upon the model of those that are most perfect in Europe, for the purpose of reducing ores upon a cheap scale and in a thorough manner? Please state fully your views and opinions upon this question of reduction works of that kind if they should be erected there, and their effect upon our mining interests in that part of the country. 0

A. I can hardly give an idea as to the effect, although I have an idea that reduction works properly constructed would stimulate mining in that section, whether constructed at the mouth of the tunnel or not. We regarded the construction of mills and reduction works at the mouth of the tunnel as an absolute necessity, to carry out this project to its, full perfection. If these be not erected the project will be a failure. To carry the ore from the mouth of the tun* nel to the present mills would make it cost so much as to be ruinously expensive. It wouldn't answer at all. The ore now, as it is raised through these shafts, is carried to the mills by a down grade. To reach those mills at the mouth of the tunnel will be either through a sandy soil or a dead level or up hill, and in winter the going up hill would be out of the question. Transportation, therefore, from the mouth of the tunnel to the present mills, is not

to be thought of. So, for a complete carrying out of this project, the mills must be at the mouth of the tunnel. There reduction works should be constructed, so as to simplify and cheapen the process, if possible. Unless that is done, the project cannot receive our recommendation at all.

Q. Do you consider the erection of such works upon a large, complete, and perfect plan desirable to facilitate mining operations in that part of the country ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Why so? State fully, if you please, yoiar reasons.

A. I mean yes, if it can be clearly ascertained that they can be established with an economy in the reduction of the ores. That is not yet fully established. We don't pretend to report upon that. We only report what we have heard. We don't vouch for the truth of these statements at all. If we had had time, and had been directed to go to Germany and England, we could have obtained statements' there that would have enabled us to assert more positively in regard to this thing; but, as it is, we do not know whether those statements ^ire true or not, whether that economy that they claim can be attained in this country, on account of the high cost of labor. If a commission should go to Europe and come back, and report that it would be economy to introduce the system, there is the place, above all others, where mining is most expensive and extensive, to construct these reduction works.

Q. Is the difference in the price of labor the only thing that throws a doubt upon this question?

A. The price of labor and all materials in this country are the great obstacles. The price of materials is as much enhanced, and perhaps more so, than the price of labor. I do not pretend to say that operations could be cheapened here to an extent that would warrant the erection of great reduction works1; but, if it be clearly ascertained that such be the case, it would be of great value, I think, to that industry to have the experiment tried. Now the ores from the Emma mine, I think, are sent to England for reduction. Well, there is the transportation, which is an

absolute loss, because, if reduction works were made in this country similar to those at Swansea, that could be saved to the country.

Mr. SHOBER. Are the ores shipped in that way ground up?

A. I believe not, sir. They select the ore they send, and send only the richest.

Mr. KENDALL. Is there not great waste attending such operations as that?

A. I can't say. I never witnessed the operations. I only know it from reports. They send the ore as ballast usually, when they have an opportunity. No; there wouldn't be much more than there is in coal, I should think.

Q. Well, I mean the waste in this way: the necessity of selecting the very richest ores to ship, and then a great quantity of the lower grades being thrown aside as worthless. There would be great waste in that way, would there not?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. To explain these answers I would like to ask one question: Cannot those reduction works be erected just as well on the Carson river now, with accessibility to the railroad, as they can at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. Yes, sir.

Hearing On Friiuy Evening, Feb. 23.

Mr. SUTRO. I desire, now, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, to proceed with the examination of Professor Wesley Newcomb, and first I wish to ask a few general questions in regard to the observations of the commissioners. Professor, would you be kind enough to give us a description of the Comstock lode?

Mr. NEWCOMB. That description has been given so often, I hardly think it will be worth while. You have diagrams here. Do you refer to the lode itself?

Q. Yes, sir; the location— the peculiarities of its location.

A. Virginia City and Gold Hill are located upon the lode. The croppings of quartz rock are above the city a distance of some hundreds of feet, on Mount Davidson. In the first place, this descended to the west, it is represented, for about a hundred feet in depth, (some say 200 feet ; that didn't come particularly under my observation;) then it diverted from its course, and changed, so as to glide off to the eastward, going directly under the city. The whole extent of it is almost five miles — said to be ; and there are workings in various parts. It has been worked the whole extent ; and I don't know but what places have been taken up beyond it.

Q. Professor, would you please state to the committee what is your opinion about the character of the Comstock lode, as far as its continuance in depth is concerned?

A. There is no reason that can be given why it is not a true fissure vein. The material of which it is composed is mostly quartz, with what are technically called " horses " among miners; i. e., the falling of portions of the hanging rock; in some places propylite or porphyry in the vein matter.

Q. What is the mode of working these mines at the present day ?

A. By shafts ; mostly by elevating the ore to the surface, and carting off to the mills.

Q. In working these mines, have they passed by a large quantity of ore that it doesn't pay to work under the present mode ?

A. From representations of the parties in connection with the mines, yes. I asked the superintendents the question particularly, and, with one exception, they all represented that there were immense bodies of ore there ; they did this in their reports, especially the Chollar Potosi. They are in hopes the time may come when the cost of labor and the mode of reduction will be so cheapened, that they will be enabled to work the vast bodies of ore remaining in their mine at a profit — ore which they pass by at the present time.

Q. Did you, in your investigations, examine into the character of the country through which the tunnel will pass, to see whether there are any other lodes which it would cut?

A. Yes, we examined some mining interests where they are partially opened and being worked: one that was said to be upon the Great Flowery and another upon the Monte Cristo lode.

Q. You say on the Monte Cristo lode? Did you particularly examine it; I believe you visited the Occidental mine?

A. I visited the Occidental mine and the Occidental mill, and examined them rather particularly.

Q. Did you go into the Occidental mine?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have they 'any ore there that would, under certain circumstances, pay for reducing ?

A. They were not at work upon it at the time we were there, in consequence of some .difficulty. It had passed into new hands, and they had not commenced operations. The parties purchasing it have confidence that it will be profitable to work more or less of it. They work by tunnels in that mine. The tunnel they use is in 1,850 feet. It has

another tunnel connected with it above. The upper tunnel we did not examine. It was the lower tunnel only that we passed into. We found a current of air passing out quite strongly through the lower tunnel.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. From what direction ?

A. It formed a communication between the upper and lower tunnels, and the air passed in at the upper and out at the lower.

Mr. SUTRO. Did you visit any mine on the Flowery lode?

A. Yes, sir ; we visited a mine that was said to; be upon that lode, (I suppose there can be no doubt about it,) where there was a vast body of croppings that they had cut through and were engaged in working; it was more like surface digging. They had also penetrated the mountain in various places, running in shafts I don't know how far.

Q. Was that the Lady Bryan mine?

A. That was the Lady Bryan.

Q. Was there a large quantity of this low-grade ore at that mine?

A. It was not difficult to determine this fact, because there was a small-sized mountain on it.

Q. Bo you recollect what the estimated value of that ore was?

A. I asked the superintendent of the mine that question. He answered it with some hesitation. He said he thought the whole mass would assay $8 a ton. They were selecting the ore and using the best, collecting but a few tons a day; I think it was four or five tons a day were all they got. They had some ten men only at work.

Q. Could that whole mass be reduced under the present mode of working and with their facilities for reducing the ore?

A. Not with profit, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I know something about that. I spent some money to try it myself.

Mr. SUTRO. It could not be done under the present • method of working.

Mr. NEWCOMB. No, sir.

Q. Professor, what is the main necessity for the profitable and thorough concentration of ore?

A. Proper machinery and abundance of water are the two essentials.

Q. Have they an abundance of water at Virginia City for the purpose of concentrating their low-grade ores they get from the Comstock lode ?

A. There was great complaint of the want of water when I was there. Ko, sir; there is not sufficient water.

Q. To reduce and concentrate the ores properly, it requires a great deal of water, does it?

A. There is a great waste of water necessarily.

Q. Water is the first condition?

A. Yes.

Q. An abundance of water?

A. That is, with this quality of ore. There are certain ores which require no water, because you reduce them with heat. For instance, there is the argentiferous galena, which requires an entirely different operation.

Q. That process is not applied there?

A. No, sir.

Q. All the processes are by amalgamation, I believe?

A. All by amalgamation that I ever saw there.

Q. And that requires a great deal of water? Have you any idea how much it is worth an inch in Virginia City, per month ?

A. Well, I have heard it is some fabulous sum, more than they paid for it in California before the present rainfall.

Q. Would there be a supply of water for concentrating purposes at the mouth of the tunnel, from the water which issues from the tunnel itself?

A. I think not, sir.

Q. Could a sufficient amount of water be supplied by bringing Carson river in a flume to the mouth of the tunnel?

A. It could, if the water were utilized. I doubt whether it could be at all seasons of the year, without constructing

a dam and holding it in a reservoir. By holding it in a reservoir, it might be accomplished.

Q. The facilities for reducing and concentrating ores would be much greater at the mouth of the tunnel than at Virginia City, would they ?

A. Yes, with a plentiful supply of water.

Q. Have they any supply of water on the canons where these mills are now located ?

A. There isn't a sufficient supply. They are all under the necessity of keeping some water.

Q. The s'upply is very limited?

A. The .supply is very limited.

Q. Does the water flow from one mill to another down the canon, and is it used over and over again ?

A. It is used many times over and over again. Sometimes it is pumped up, after settling, to be re-used.

Q. After passing through a mill the water becomes very muddy, doesn't it?

A. Yes. But after awhile it settles, and they take up the clear water to be used again.

Q. Still there is a scarcity of water, which is absolutely necessary in the reduction of the ores ?

A. There was when we were there.

Q. Would there be any space at any of these mills, as they are located in a narrow ravine, to erect extensive reduction works or concentrating works ?

A. I do not know of any place where there is room.

Q. In the ravines I am speaking of?

A. 'No; I don't know of any.

Q. Then it would be quite impossible to erect that kind of works and run them profitably or rationally without an abundant supply of water and abundant space to move in?

A. Well, perhaps the better mode of answering the question would be to state, that one single process is not sufficient to secure the results desired. The assay of ore is made, and the ore is delivered to the milled. He is required to return 65 per cent, of the assay value. That is the general rule. The balance is understood to be lost,

excepting what may be fished up by different parties as it flows away iii the little streamlets that wind their way through the valleys and down toward the Carson. They manage to pick up a small percentage.

Q. Well, how would that be at the mouth of the tunnel, Professor? Is there space enough there to erect mills; and is there a descent towards the river sufficient to have self-acting concentrating works, where the pulp passes from one to the other, without the labor of men ?

A. From the mouth of the tunnel there is a direct incline to the Carson river. The fall, within perhaps a mile or a mile and a quarter, amounts to 152 feet, according to the leveling of the Surveyor General. That fall would make it very important with reference to establishing a succession of works. It would be sufficient to give a current, all that would be required for the purpose of effecting this object, and making the process automatic, self-acting.

Q. Then it would dispense, to a large extent, with th'e labor of men ?

A. "Well, it probably could be reduced at a very much less expense at that point with a liberal flow of water. I think the entire expense of reduction would be lessened one-half.

Q. What is the fall from the mouth of the tunnel to the river ?

A. It is said to be 152 feet, according te the leveling of the Surveyor General.

Q. From the mouth of the tunnel to the river 152 feet?

A. "Well, I mentioned 152 feet, didn't I.

Mr. SHOBER. What is the distance, Professor, from the river to the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. It is a mile, or, according to some, a mile and a quarter. I should judge it to be fully a mile, if not more. It has been measured. The actual distance can be arrived at.

Mr. SUTRO. According to your idea, then, there would

be no difficulty in the erection of reduction works there on the mosf extensive scale ?

A. Well, you might cover hundreds of acres with reduction works, by carrying the current along the margin of the hills, and using it to any extent desired.

Q. There is a large valley at the mouth of the tunnel, sloping to the river, is there not?

A. Yes, sir. It extends along the hills for a long distance. It appears for a long distance to be flat, but it is a regular descent.

Q. The topography of the country there is very favorable for that sort of thing?

A. I should think it would be perfectly plain to every one that it would be favorable. The* location, so far as the declivity — the fall — is concerned, is what would be desired. .

Q. How is it about the present mills upon the river? There are quite a number of small mills and some large ones along the river. Have they any space, where they are located, for the purpose of erecting concentrating works ?

A. They will have a fall of from 12 to 20 feet from their dam that they can get for reduction, but it would not be long before their fall would be used up.

Q. Are they not crowded into a narrow gorge of the river, right close to the bank of the river ?

A. Yes, except in one or two instances, where they have canals leading to them, and that is at no great elevation from the river.

Q. There wouldn't be much chance to obtain a great deal of space there, would there ?

A. Not a great deal of surface could be used in that way for want of fall. They could obtain surface enough if the fall were sufficient.

Q. Well, in order to thoroughly secure the concentration of ores, you require a great many successive operations in order to get at it at all ?

A. You want, as the German's have done, to apply the

different modes in succession in order to secure the greatest result. k

Q. Would it be possible, with from 10 or 12 to 20 feet, to get enough fall to put in a succession of concentrating works?

A. Well, I should think not. No, sir; not to make it automatic. It can be done by again carrying the material up and repeating the operation in that form, but it would be attended with a great deal of labor.

Q. Would you consider it more advantageous to have works on^i large scale at the mouth of the tunnel: could it be done cheaper on a large scale, with the advantages of the topography of the locality?

A. Yes, I think ore could be reduced at half the expeuse it costs now, because you could make your works automatic, and use your water power instead, of steam power. The ore ought to be reduced there for $6 a ton.

Q. How much do they get now for reducing ores?

A. The price varies from $11 to $13 a ton.

Q. Does that include the hauling ?

A. That includes hauling.

Q. How much is hauling stated at ?

A. They call it $1 a ton for hauling by teams to the nearest point; that is, from the Savage mine. I have the statement of the man who runs the mill for the Savage company. He states it at $1. It costs $1 a ton for cartage. They reduce it at §11 a ton, but the mill belongs to the Occidental.

Q. What mill is that ?

A. The Occidental.

Q. That is a mill close by the Comstock lode, the Occidental mill?

A. It isn't a very far distance.

Q. How far distant is it?

^ A. I should judge it is a mile and a half from the mine. I don't know. The nearest Approach I have made to it is to travel over it in the night-time, to see the Pa-Utes dance.

Q. But you went over it in the daytime also?

A. Yes, sir. I should think it is a mile and a half, possibly two miles distance.

Q. How far are the mills on Carson river from Virginia City, by the railroad ?

A. I think they call it 23 miles.

Q. To Carson City ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Some mills are located nearer to Virginia than those of Carson City, are they not?

A. Oh, yes; there are mills upon the route.

A. How much do you take off for taking the ore down to the river?

A. I don't know what it costs to take down to the river.

Q. It is stated here, in your report, that transportation, or carrying to the mills, is $1 50; is that the average cost?

A. Well, I think on the railroads, in some cases, they carry for $1 a ton to those nearest, and from that to $2 a ton.

Q. Would $1 50 be a fair average ?

A. It would, perhaps, if you take the Carson river and the mills in the canons.

Q. Then milling being at from $11 to $13 a ton, $1 50 off would leave about $10 50 for milling ?

A. Not very far from that.

Q. How much do you say ore could be reduced for, provided large mills were erected at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. You mean by steam or water power ?

Q. By water power.

A. It ought to be done for $6 a ton, certainly.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Six dollars for reduction at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. Yes, sir; $6 reduction at the mouth of the tunnel.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, that would be a saving of $4 50 on every ton at the present prices. , Mr. SUNDERLAND. We do it*nuch cheaper than that now.

Mr. SUTRO. Here's the way it is stated in the commissioners' report: They give it at $12.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It ain't so at all.

Mr. SUTRO. But it gives it at $12.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is what the mills charge. It isn't what it costs. That's what the mills charge the miners.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, that's what the miners pay.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUTRO. Reduction could be done at tlie mouth of the tunnel, Professor, for $6; is that your statement?

Mr. ^TEWCOMB. My statement is that it could be done at $6.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is not at a profit?

Mr. SUTRO. That would be a saving of $4 50 a ton. How much royalty have they got to pay to the tunnel company ?

Mr. EEWCOMB. The specifications in the law made are $2 a ton.

Q. Then, according to that, they would save on milling alone §2 50 on every ton, besides the royalty?

A. Yes, if you figure right.

Q. According to these figures we have just made?

A* Yes.

Q. If mills were erected at the mouth of that tunnel, Professor, with the present mode of reducing the ore — that is, to crush the ores and amalgamate them, and save the tailings— do you think that, in running those tailings over concentrating tables and concentrating works, a greater saving could be made?

A. I think it is a disgrace to our country that we lose 35 per cent, of the metals.

Q. It is 35 per cent, that they lose ?

A. Prom 30 to 35. Some claim they can make it about 30.

Q. Say about one-third ?

A. About one-third. It varies in that respect. In the report of the Savage company they give in one of the mills a different result from that of the Customs mills. The Occidental mill is one of their own mills. They work up the taiftngs themselves, and they get a better result from the silver and a less result from the gold than at the Customs

mills. In the one case they lose 44 per cent, of the silver, according to the report.

Mr, SUNDERLAND. Do you remember what year that report is ?

A. The last report made ? I don't recollect exactly; but the statement is made in this report.

Mr. SUTRO. I think it is stated in King's report, very fully, how much they lose. They lose from 35 to 40 per cent. According to that, Professor

A. I will give you the statement. It is on page 20 of our report :

"The loss in working from the assay value of the ores is, of gold, 25T11T per cent. ; for silver, 34^ per cent. The larger the proportion of gold in the ore, the less absolute loss is made in the working.

" The above statement is the result of the workings in the Occidental mill, under the direct control of the Savage company, and includes all savings from slime and tailings secured to the company.

"In the Customs mills the report shows a less favorable result on the silver product, as follows: Gold loss, 23T1^ per cent.; silver loss, 44 per cent."

Q. Well, now let me repeat my question : Could an additional amount be saved by taking these tailings, which come from the mills, and running them over concentrating tables, saving the valuable parts, and then reducing these ?

A. I should think it might, most decidedly.

Q. "Would you consider that the circumstances at the mouth of the tunnel are favorable to that sort of work ?

A. Yes.

Q. Well, if they lose 35 per cent, and the yield is $15,000,000 per annum, the total result would be about $23,000,000?

A. That is on the supposition that you make.

Q. I mean the assay value would be $23,000,000. That intimates a loss of $8,000,000 per annum. How much additional do you think could be saved by having the most approved concentrating works erected at those mills at the mouth of the tunnel— the per cent, of the gross yield?

A. They work in Europe, very much closer than we work. It is reported, upon authority I can give, to be five

per cent. ; that 13, one of the professors in the mining school in New York BO states.

Q. Columbia College?

A. Columbia College. He has recently returned from there. He repeated to me that they were now within five per cent.

Q. Then, in losing 35 per cent, as they do now, supposing they had very complete concentrating works, with an abundant supply of water, how much could that loss be reduced to, in your opinion ?

A. I think the loss would be greater than in the workp of Europe, because the body of work is much greater. You would make a greater loss, because you would be under the necessity of hurrying up your work more. There the body of ore worked is smaller in comparison, and the results are favorable. More time and attention are given to it than would be profitable here. I think the loss might be reduced to 10 per cent. here.

Q. Then they would save 25 per cent additional?

A. I think it ought to be worked within 10 per cent

Q. Then they would save 25 per cent, additional of the present yield, which would be almost $6,000,000 on the whole amount of §23,000,000 per annum ? .

A. I will say that I was very forcibly struck with the mode of reduction, and the extreme loss resulting therefrom. They represented that they had tried every means in their power to correct that condition. The miners, of course, do not wish to lose it any more than any outsiders. They tried various plans for overcoming the loss; and they have their works, in connection with their present localities, as far. as it can be done, made, perhaps^ as perfectly as they can be made under the circumstances. But they have not the conditions for the succession of works that is required, in order to obtain the desired result.

Q. If it were proposed, Professor, to furni&h to these mills on the river the same power at the mouth of the tunnel they have now, would you think it probable that they 11

would refuse to accept the same at that more favorable point?

A. I can only answer you, sir, upon general principles. I should think that they were very foolish if they did not accept. I know if I were owner of a mill upon the river, and could get the power located where I should not be subject to the expense of keeping up dams and flumes and to freshets, I should very gladly make the exchange. I cannot say what they will do out there.

Q. Then, according to ordinary reasoning, and consulting the interests of themselves, they would not hesitate of accepting a power equal to the power which they hold now, and having it located at that more favorable point at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. It would possess another advantage in addition : they would be permanently supplied with water, which they are now deficient in. When we were there, many of the mills were not working on account of the want of water.

Q. By erecting a large dam, and damming up the water for miles back, would it accumulate in large quantities ?

A. Yes, sir. All my remarks were made with reference to a reservoir being constructed sufficient to hold the water that would accrue through the season. The water that passes down in the spring is sufficient to keep the mills going through the whole of the year, no doubt. I have it from good authority that the Mexican mill has been repeatedly flooded, and, in the opinion of the man who was the superintendent of that mill for many years, the body of the water was abundant for everything, if it could be utilized.

Q. Is there much wear and tear in those mills, Professor?

A. Well, from actual observation I couldn't say ; but from the representations made to me by the President of the milling company it must be very great.

Q. Who is that, Professor? A. That is Mr. Sharon.

Q. Who is he? Is he the agent of the Bank of California?

A. He has that reputation. I never transacted business with him in that way.

Q. What did he tell you about the wear and tear of the mills ?

A. He very kindly took us to visit the different mills belonging to the company and many others. The number is rather difficult to mention. I have a list running down two or three .pages of my note-book. I told him it must be rather expensive keeping those mills up. It is claimed by Mr. Sharon (I am reading from my note-book) that the millions of dollars invested in these mills would be sacrificed should the Sutro tunnel become an accomplished fact. In answer to an inquiry, we learned from him that the expensive machinery used has to be replaced every two years.

Q. In other words, it wears out every two years?

A. He says it has to be replaced. I presume it wears out.

Q. You took that down at the time the statement was made?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, supposing these people would contemplate an exchange for water power at the mouth of the§ tunnel, and would in the meantime not replace their old with new machinery, would they lose much of anything?

A. Many of the mills Were not in movement, for want of water or being out of repair, when I was there. They constantly required t^ese repairs. If they were transferred, and the use of the water power were substituted for steam, I should think that they would be the gainers by the operation very materially.

Q. They could let the machinery wear out? It would take several years to make the tunnel, and by that time they could move their mills, and there wouldn't be much loss, would there?

A. I don't think there would be much loss. The expensive

part of the machinery composes the most of the value of the mills.

Q. What do the buildings amount to ?

A. Not a great deal, sir.

Q. What are they made of?

A. Mostly wood.

Q. Boards?

A. Boards, rather loosely put together.

Q. They don't cost much, do they?

A. They are a little better than our ordinary country saw-mills, with one exception — yes, two or three exceptions : where they are constructed with a great deal of care, the timbers well put together. But the most of them, with the exception of the frame-work, are of very little consequence. The frame-work I should not consider of very great value.

Q. Couldn't the frame-work be taken down and removed ?

A. It could; but that would be at a sacrifice, of course, to some extent. The Mexican mill is a very excellent mill. There was one very expensive mill belonging to the Gould and Curry ; that is now dilapidated, or was when we were there.

Q. It is not torn down ?

A. I don't know whether it is torn down or not. The building was standing when we were there. It was a very expensively put up building.

Q. You spoke of Mr. Sharon a moment ago, the agent of the Bank of California. Did he ever say anything to you about being opposed to the tunnel?

A. Well, he expressed himself very strongly when I first saw him in the street in connection with the other commissioners.

Q. When you were introduced to him ?

A. He didn't address himself to me; but he expressed himself as very strongly against the tunnel.

Q. On what grounds did he state he was opposed to it ?

A. The grounds were not given; only he would crush it, or something of that effect.

Q. Did lie make any remark to the effect that he would break it up, or oppose it, or defeat it, if he could ?

A. Yes, and in very strong terms. I cannot use the exact words he did, but I know the expression was very strong.

Q. It showed a good deal of feeling about it ?

A. He seemed to.

Q. Would you consider that, if Mr. Sharon owned the privileges connected with this tunnel, he would like to construct it?

A. That would be merely a matter of opinion. I could hardly answer the question. I think very likely Mr. Sharon has got money enough, and wouldn't like to bother with it just now; that is my opinion. I had an opportunity of seeing his mode of operating a little in stocks.

Q. How do they make their money there, Professor?

A. Some men make it by hard labor, I suppose.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If the chairman please, I object to that question, as having no relevancy to this case. It don't make any difference how we make our money there. We make it honestly or dishonestly. It has no bearing upon the tunnel.

Mr. SUTRO. I think it has a very close connection with the tunnel. I am trying to arrive at the motives for the opposition of these people, and, in order to do that, I want to show how these men make their money ; whether they made it by legitimate mining or by stock-jobbing. I think the question is very pertinent.

Mr. 'SUNDERLAND. If we make or lose money by stock-jobbing, I don't think it will make the tunnel of less or greater value.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, if the tunnel would break up this stock-jobbing, it is very natural that these people who make their money by stock-jobbing would be opposed to it; consequently I think the question is pertinent.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It will be for the chairman of the committee to decide. It only opens the field to all kinds of inquiry that may be made.

Mr. SESSIONS. It is quite speculative; the question is.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, I want to show that these people are opposed to the tunnel for various reasons, one of which is, that they make their money over.there, not by legitimate mining, but by bulling and bearing the stocks. If the tunnel comes in, why it opens up all those mines, and they can't hide anything ; it becomes legitimate mining.

Mr. SESSIONS. Well, ask the question.

Mr. SUTRO. What is the motive of opposition, Professor, in your opinion?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to that.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I cannot go into the man's motives.

Mr. SESSIONS. Well, what is the manner of the opposition they make, not the motive. How is the opposition made?

Mr. SUTRO. How do they show the opposition to the tunnel, Professor? Do they exercise any influence over the people at Virginia City, in such a manner as to prevent them from becoming interested in the tunnel and seeing it go ahead ?

A. Well, we took the evidence of some of the miners in regard to that; one of them particularly specified that he didn't wish to have his name given in connection with it in any way, and in the course of conversation he stated that if the mining ring knew that any intelligence was communicated to the commissioners adverse to what was thought to be in their own interests, and in favor of the tunnel, the parties communicating it would be discharged from employment, and he would not like to have his name mentioned in connection with it. He gave us some little information upon the subject, still further, in regard to the amount of low-grade ores.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I would like, if the chairman please, to have the name of that man given. I would like to know what position he holds, so as to know whether his information is entitled to respect.

Mr. SUTRO. If the man gave his information, and stated

it would jeopardize his position-to have it known, it would be hardly fair to give it.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I would decline to give his name, because I promised not to.

Mr. SESSIONS. It isn't necessary* r-

Mr. SUNFERLAND. Then, since the witness objects to giving the name, I object to having repeated here anything that that man said, because he may be some loafer, that has a spite against a mine owner, and has given false information. We might prove his character to be such, that his declarations wouldn't be worthy of belief. It is exceedingly strange to give the statement of a man, and then withhold his name, so that we cannot dispute the proposition, or bring into question his veracity.

Mr. SESSIONS. It would be hardly tolerated, of course, in a court of justice.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. ^N"ever, anywhere in the world.

Mr. SUTRO. Professor, let me ask you a general question. Did you find, in your intercourse with the laboring miners, that they exhibited any fear of communicating any information to you which would be favorable to the tunnel?

Mr. NEWCOMB. When we visited the mines, we were generally accompanied by the superintendent. There wasn't very much opportunity of conversing with the men, excepting in some few cases with the foremen of particular levels.

Q. Well, from what you saw there, Professor, would you think that these men would have communicated to you any information favorable to the tunnel while their foreman or superintendent was present? What is your impression about that?

A. That's a rather hard question to answer. My views in regard to it, at the time, were perfectly neutral, neither for nor against it; and the influence exerted upon my mind by this man, who seemed to be a fair man, led me not to make examinations. Perhaps it would have been better

if I could have done so more extensively. I didn't wish

•

Q. You didn't make them, then, because you feared yoti would injure those people?

A. I didn't wish to do them an injury by holding communications with them upon the subject. This party influenced my mind so far as to lead me to believe that, if we were found in communication with the parties, and they gave us information upon the subject, and it was ascertained, it might result to their injury.

Q. Did you come in contact with any of the officers of the Miners' Union at Virginia City?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they in favor of the tunnel?

A. Yes, decidedly in favor of it.

Q. Are these miners very numerous over there?

A. Well, I don't know how numerous they may be, but the understanding was that they comprised the greater portion of the miners.

Q. Of the laboring miners ?

A. That is my understanding.

Q. They number several thousand, do they ?

A. Yes. I do not know how many belong to it, excepting that they are very numerous. That is as far as I can say. That was the representation they made to me at the time.

Q. They wanted to see the tunnel go in ?

A. Yes.

Q. Did they make any statement why they thought it was desirable to make that tunnel ? Did they state anything in regard to their health ?

A. Well, they stated that the miners generally were healthy, but it would be an improvement in the mode of ventilation, and it would develop the mines, and prevent, as they represented, gambling in stocks; it would prevent loss to the miners in investing in stocks — the miners themselves.

Q. They lost money by gambling in stocks ?

A. Yes.

Q. Professor, what do you know about the condition of

the atmosphere in these mines? Do you consider" that it is a healthy atmosphere where these men are employed?

A. In some places, yes. In the Yellow Jacket mine. I don't recollect whether it is the 1,100-foot, or 1,200-foot, or 1,000-foot level where the miners were; but, at any rate, the heat was very great, and the atmosphere was stagnant. It filled my lungs so rapidly as to produce a congestive state, and made it difficult for me to breathe, and that wars not in the hottest point. General Wright went in a portion where the thermometer went up several degrees over the heat at that point. I was in Honduras in the same temperature, where they had precisely the same range of thermometer, and no such difficulty followed where we could have advantage of the motion of the air, but the inhalation of the damp air produced a form of congestion that made it very difficult to breathe. The men that were sinking on that level, with the exception of a light pair of pantaloons, were naked, and the perspiration was streaming from their bodies; yet they were very healthy.

Q. Professor, in the reports made to the English Parliament, in investigating the condition of the miners, it has been stated that 42 per cent, of them die of miners' consumption; that while they are at work they get eo much accustomed to the place, that they never find out they really have the seeds of consumption in them until it is too late. They then leave the occupation, and go off to some other place to die. Do you think that the condition of the Corn-stock lode is similar to that ?

A. No; I don't think it is, Mr. Sutro. I think the circumstances are quite different. The most of the miners in England are coal miners. I have been in the mines of Newcastle, through that region — the coal mines. There you have a great deal of free carbonic acid in the atmosphere, which has a tendency to afiect the lungs very injuriously, I think, nearly as a slow poison; but in our mines we have no accumulation of carbonic acid gas.

Q. Well, haven.'t we sulphuretted hydrogen gas?

A. Very little of it.

Q. Isn't it very fatal where it does exist?

A. Yes; but it isn't perceptible here at all events.

Q. Do you consider there is a lack of oxygen in the air?

A. No ; I think the unhealthiness is due to the stagnant condition of the atmosphere. Give it movement, and the air is just as good in the mines as it is up outside; I don't think there is much difference.

• Q. Do you consider that if that tunnel would go in, and connect by its branches with a great number of shafts, that the ventilation would improve; that the motion of the air would improve ?

A. There is no doubt that it would improve ventilation. At the same time other appliances could be made to ventilate it.

Q. They could blow in air?

A. They could blow in air, or send in condensed air.

Q. Well, to make condensed air requires a good deal of power, does it not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Couldn't this water at the mouth of the tunnel be applied to condensing air, and the mines be ventilated much cheaper than they could be from the surface by steam power ?

A. Why, it would make the difference between the inexpensive water power and the expensive steam power.

Q. Would you consider, Professor, that, with the connections from the tunnel, the atmosphere would gradually cool off above the tunnel level, say within one, two, or three years, and become cooler than it is now, by having a thorough draft going through the different shafts up to the surface ?

A. Yes, it would cool off gradually.

Q. Then, taking the average of the thermometer as it is given here, at between 90° and 110°, say 100°, would that, think you, be reduced in one or two years down to 75° or 80° by constant ventilation ?

A. Yes; If you throw a cold current of air through, of course you can cool it off. That is evidenced very distinctly

in the Hoosac tunnel, in passing into the tunnel, directly under the mountain, where the air would be ,heated but for the condensed air that is thrown in. Why, the mountain is as cool in the tunnel as it is outside, and it is due to that circumstance; and this condensation is made by water power a part of the time, when they can use the water, at other times by steam power ; when the water power fails, it is supplemented by steam.

Q. An almost unlimited supply of condensed air could be thrown into those workings from the mouth of the tunnel, provided you have cheap water power to make it by?

A. Yes; an unlimited supply could be thrown in if you have cheap water power. There would be no difficulty about that.

Q. Would you think, Professpr, that the thermometer, which now stands at an average of 100°, would then go down, say to 70°?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't think the Professor has stated that it stands at the average you have given.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I don't think that it is a fair statement, because it is not. In the deep workings they may find the temperature (not in the present working headings, but iri those that have been placed on one side) as high as stated. When 'they are at work they force the air into the headings upon the workmen, and it keeps them comparatively covered; but where we found the temperature to rise to 103° was in a nook, out of the way, where the water was hot, the rock hot, and everything heated, and the atmosphere filled with moisture.

Mr. SUTRO. What would you consider the average temperature of the mines in the headings and the drifts and the winzes of the working mines, say at the 1,200-foot level, so far as your observation goes?

A. We found at the headings of the Crown Point a very comfortable temperature; not particularly hot, at any rate.

Q. What would you call comfortable?

A. Well, a temperature of 80° suits me about as well as

any. I don't like it any less than that at any time, for my feelings. •

Q. What would you consider the average of the temperature at the headings at the depth of 1,000 or 1,200 feet?

A. I think it would run up probably to 85°.

Q. At headings?

A. At the headings on the level. It would T>e very much higher but for the blowers, which keep it cool while they are sending a current of air through their tubular structures to the headings. As you descend the heat will increase. It will increase after passing down 1,000 feet much more rapidly in proportion than for the 1,000 feet above, until you get to the depth of 2,000 feet, and then the increase is still greater.

Mr. SHOBER. What would be the heat at that depth of 1,200 feet, without artificial means of ventilation ?

A. Well, it would exceed 100°. I believe it would go up to 105°. It would be just about 105°.

Mr. SUTRO. Wouldn't it go higher than that if there were no ventilation?

A. ISTo, I think not. A person could not live in a temperature of 105° there, when he could live in the open air in a temperature very much higher.

Q. Then there is a difference between the salubrity of a temperature in a mine and on the surface?

A. There is, where you get no motion in the atmosphere. Stagnant air a person cannot stand. A better mode of expression would be, that the sensations are not truly indicated by the thermometer.

Q. Professor, in your opinion would the working capacity of the mines not be increased if the temperature were reduced say 10° or 15° or 20°?

A. There is no doubt about that, because in some of the mines, although they were stripped nearly, with only a pair of pantaloon sx on, when they were at work the perspiration was reeking upon them.

Q. Did it fill their boots? Did you ever see their boots filled with perspiration?

A. No; I didn't examine their boots.

Q. Well, it is like a steam-bath, a good deal, isn't it?

A. It is a good deal like the bath I took at the steam springs.

Q. Suppose the temperature were reduced on account of the current created, so that the air could no longer be stagnant, would you consider that the working capacity of the men employed in the mine below the 1,000-foot level would be increased 25 per cent. ?

A. To what other depth?

Q. To the tunnel level; from 1,000 to 2,000 feet.

A. Well, I should think it would. The lower the level the more the heat is, and the more difficult to work in the mines.

Q. They state there are 3,000 miners employed on the Comstock lode, at $4 a day; that is $12,000 a day. Twenty-five per cent, saved would be $3,000 a day, which would be the actual saving in labor, equal to $1,000,000 a year.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Mr. Chairman, I would prefer that the witness make his calculations;

Mr. SUTRO. I ask the witness whether my statement is correct ?

Mr. NETFCOMB. He can make his calculations as he pleases. I don't respond to that.

Mr. SUTRO. Tt appears in the report as my question. I want the Professor to state whether that is correct.

Mr. NEWCOMB. Well, if your statement of the number of miners, 3,000, be correct, and if you have figured correctly, why that is the amount saved, $3,000 a day. I don't take the responsibility of the ciphering at all.

Mr. SESSIONS. The data given, we can figure it as well as he can.

Mr. SUTRO. There is $1,095,000 that could be saved in labor alone. In going below the tunnel level the heat would be still greater, would it not?

Mr. NEWCOMB. I think the heat would be increased about 1° for every 40 feet. It is ascertained that below the 2,000-foot level the increase is very much greater than above the

2,000 feet, the ratio of increase is greater, and as you descend that ratio continues to increase. I think that at the depth of 2,000 feet, if there were no appliances to cool the place, the temperature would stand at 123°.

Q. Would you consider it possible to work the mines below the tunnel level at all, except you introduce condensed-air?

A. I don't believe blowers would be sufficient; at the same time that is merely a matter of opinion. I think by condensed air it might be done.

Q. Getting down to that depth, would there not be required a very large power, in order to drive these blowers and condense air particularly?

A. Yes ; it would require a good deal of force.

Q. That power could be obtained at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. It would take expensive machinery.

Q. Water power could be applied to that at the mouth of the tunnel. Professor, I want to ask you whether, from your observation, (what you know and have seen,) those mines are worked legitimately for mining purposes, or whether they are worked for stock-jobbing purposes?

A. I think when they strike a bonanza they are worked for mining purposes. But when they do not, they work them in the stock-board in San Francisco.

Q. Do you know of any instance where they had a body of ore they had discovered, where they didn't let the public know ? Did you ever hear of any such instance?

A. They struck in the Belcher when we were there.

Q. Did they make it known at once ? Did they let the public know as soon as they struck it? Did the public generally get that information at once ?

A. I am not aware that they did, but it was known in a very few days.

Q. "Was it known the day they struck it? Did the public generally know about the strike they had made in the Belcher mine ?

A. We were examining these mills at the time at some

distance off, (I think in the Seven Mile canon,) and a party came riding on horseback with a very nice specimen, and handed a note to the president of the mill company

Q. Who was he ?

A. He was Mr. Sharon.

Q. He was with you, was he?

A. Well, we were with him. He was taking us out in his carriage, very kindly, to show us the mill property, and we saw that it was a matter of considerable importance to him, and we rather urged him to turn back, thinking that he might be required at his office. He did so, and telegraphed to San Francisco for the purchase of stock of the Belcher company.

Q. Was Mr. Sharon at that time connected as an officer with the Belcher company?

A. I don't know, sir. He told me afterwards that he had secured control of the mine.

Q. Did you ever hear of the miners being locked up in a mine, when a strike had occurred, with their meals sent down to them, champagne and all that sort of thing?

A. ~Not while we were out there. There is one thing I know pretty decidedly; the miners wouldn't have objected to it, especially the champagne.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. They never have been found to object to it yet. I don't see what business it is to any body outside either, if the miners don't object to it.

Mr. SUTRO. Do you think, Professor, that these mines are worked in the interests of the men who are the owners of the stock ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Well, if you want my actual thoughts in regard to it, I should say they were worked more in the interests of particular parties, that may or may not be interested particularly in the mines. I have to judge from general observation, and from one and another little circumstance. I had had some little investments in mines myself, and they had been paying regular dividends of $25 per share, I think, for one year. I got two or three dividends at first, and then I had the privilege of receiving a

notice of an assessment of $20; and I happened to learn accidentally that they had a large surplus on hand when the assessment waa made, and I wouldn't hold such stock. I sold it out at a sacrifice of two or three thousand dollars. The assessment was never paid, that I recollect.

Q. "Was that one of the mines of the Comstock lode?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is the general opinion of people about the management of these mines ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to the general opinion.

Mr. SUTRO. Professor, what is your opinion of it?

Mr. NEWCOMB. "Well, ask the lawyer here. He knows all about it.

Mr. SUTRO. He won't tell us.

Mr. NEWCOMB. Yes, you will; won't you?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If he puts me on the stand, I'll tell.

Mr. NEWCOMB. Well, I know some men get very wealthy there, and others do not.

Mr. SUTRO. How is it about these superintendents there ? . A. They are very intelligent men.

Q. Haven't 'very many of them grown rich?

A. They have excellent champagne.

Q, They are smart, are they?

A. There are not many smarter men to be found. They are really good fellows.

Q. What chances have they to speculate ? Have they made much money as superintendents of those mines?

A. They must have an opportunity of knowing when anything rich is to be struck, and they can easily telegraph to San Francisco and secure stock. They have that advantage, and whoever would be a superintendent and not improve that opportunity, would be behind the common usage. I suppose the superintendents would be considered as rather rich.

Q. Is Mr. Bequa reputed to have made much money over there?

A. I am glad to say he is reputed to be wealthy. I hope

»

it is* true. I think Mr. Requa is a very fine gentleman. He is certainly a very intelligent one.

Q. Would these superintendents like to lose a position that is as lucrative as that they hold?

A. Well, if I were a superintendent there, and understood my business, I shouldn't want to lose the position.

Q. Who has the controlling power there which keeps these people in place?

A. It ought to be the stockholders of the mine, of course.

Q. Do you think they are the ones?

A. I can't say. I am not in the ring.

Q. Would these superintendents, if there be a " power behind the throne," be apt to do anything against that power that could remove them from their position?

A. I shouldn't think it would be advisable for them to do it, and I donrt think they would.

Q. Mr. Sharon told you that he was opposed to the tunnel?

A. Yes.

Q. Hasn't he the reputation of being the "power behind the throne?"

A. Well, he has the power that wealth gives, undoubtedly, and exercises it. He is a very keen, sharp, bright, active man.

Q. Would you think that these superintendents would be apt to cling to these positions, which are so very lucrative, and not give offense to the parties who have the power to remove them ?

A. Well, that would be very natural to suppose.

Q. Are there mines over there owned by any one particularly ?

A. As far as I know they are all joint-stock companies, with perhaps one or two exceptions.

Q. Who are the owners of that stock?

A. Oh, they are owned by individuals— tfarmers, merchants, mechanics, and all classes of people, more or less. I know a great many parties in San Francisco and in various places that own st^ck. 12

Q. Do they buy tbat stock for investment, to keep?

A. Some have done so, I know.

Q. Do they do it nowadays ?

A. I don't know.

Q. Have you any idea how much the transactions of these stocks amount to per month in the San Francisco stock hoard? I mean the transactions of the stock in the Comstock lode?

A. I don't know. I should think millions.

Q. Then, according to that, these stocks change hands from day to day, and new sets of men come into posssession?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And they don't care much about the property, or who controls it?

A. It is the same with the mining stock as with other stocks. Eailroad stocks are continually changing in the market in the same way. There is a large amount of stock-jobbing.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I wish to objectto Mr. Sutro's making statements that are not borne out by facts.

Mr. SUTRO. I want to get at the mode of working those mines, whether they are economically worked for the profits, or whether the whole system of mining is a stock-jobbing operation, where one is continually trying to get the start of the other. 1 want to show that this property is simply a foot-ball; that it is used for speculative purposes; that it is bought and sold from day to day; that new parties are all the time getting the ownership; and that there are certain rings who control the thing.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, there is no law there against buying or selling these stocks, and people will deal in them, and you can't help it.

Mr. NEWCOMB. That is evident, I think; you can't help it any more than you -can help railroad stocks being bought and sold.

Mr. SUTRO. You would consider^ Professor, that that tunnel would be of great advantag^to those mines, as far

as the drainage, ventilation, and cheap mode of transportation are concerned?

A. Well, it would serve to drain the mines, to save what expense is incurred in the process of draining. It would aid in ventilation, although I do not deem it an essential thing.

Q. It isn't absolutely necessary ?

A. Not absolutely necessary.

Q. Still, would it be desirable?

A. It would be desirable to have all the ventilation you can get, and as you go down the increase in importance is very great.

Q. Do you know how many steam engines are in operation on the Comstock lode ?

A. I do not. I never counted them.

Q. Have you an approximate idea how many there are?

A. No. I know that a man that is unaccustomed to the noise feels about the same under the Falls of Niagara as he does along the streets of Virginia City to Gold Hill, from the sound of the stamps.

Q. I was not referring to the stamps, but to the hoisting works.

A. I referred to the stamps; the noise made by the stamps.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That becomes quite musical after a while.

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, they can't sleep without it.

Mr. NEWCOMB. So I am told. I don't know the number of engines. I never counted them. But there is a large number necessarily employed to move those stamp-'.

Mr. SUTRO. After the tunnel is in and the branches are constructed, and these shafts connected, would there be a necessity for pumping machinery any longer, down to the turrn.el level? (f

A. £s"o, sir; I should think not.- There is no reason why there should be, for the simple reason that there would be no necessity for it. The amount of water that comes from near the surface depends very much upon the seasons.

"Where the seasons are very dry, the quantity would be less. Where they are very wet, the quantity would be increased.

Q. You visited a number «f mines on the Com stock. Did you ascertain anything about the quantity of water they had?

A. Well, we tried to work that water up, but all the information we really had upon the subject, as to the amount, is \vhat we derived from the reports of the superintendents.

Q. Well, I want to ask you whether they haven't stated almost universally that the water in the last year had very much decreased as they descended?

A. Yes; they gave that report.

Q. Are you aware of the fact that there had been three years of immense drought over there ; that they had hardly any rain or snow fall during the three preceding winters; that the earth was all parched up; that the wells had dried up; and that, in fact, the water had almost disappeared?

A. I had known that, along the range of the Sierras in the State of California, there had been three successive dry seasons; and I was told that it had extended to Virginia City and the mines.

Q. Would these three seasons not have dried up the earth and prevented the supply of water at the depth these mines had run?

A. It would lessen the flow of water necessarily, because this coming from the surface, and passing into the cracks and crevices of the rocks, and percolating through every formation, would be lessened to a very great extent.

Q. Where does the water come from that is found in penetrating the crust of the earth?

A. Well, the most of it is the result of rain. .

Q. That seeps through ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Wouldn't it be a natural result that, after three dry seasons, the supply of water in the earth would be a great deal less Jhan after a wet season?

A. Yes, it has always been found so.

Q. Well, reports state that the snow fall this winter has

been very heavy — both snow and rain; and wouldn't the result be, that after the snow melts a larger quantity of water would be found in the mines than there had during the last year ?

A. Yes, I should judge that that would be the case. That was the opinion I expressed to the commissioners, that the lessening of the amount of water was due to that cause.

Q. What time were you in Nevada?

A. I think it was in August.

Q. August of last year?

A. Yes.

Q. That was almost the dryest part of the year, was it not?

A. It was so dry, that there was a great scarcity of water, at any rate. f

Q. I find it stated here, in the report of the Surveyor General, on page 45:

" I would state that the amount of water flowing into the Carson river thig year is extremely small, far less than ever known since the settlement of the tate; and k is not probable that a similar reduction will happen in many

years. I have, therefore, based no estimate or calculation upon this year. For the months of August, September, and /October, and up to the present time, the flow has only been 25 cubic feet, on a grade of 10 feet to the mile."

In another place he states, that

"The average flow of water in the Carson river is 508Ta^ feet."

That would show that the quantity of water in the Carson river this year was only 3^ of the average flow of ordinary years. Well, taking that as a basis, would it not appear that some very extraordinary dry seasons had occurred in Nevada ?

A. Oh, we have the fact, I suppose, without a doubt.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It isn't contended that we have had three dry seasons there. I don't deny that. I have been there all the the time, and know it.

Mr. ISTEWCOMB. I have seen, after a blow from the pick, the dust fly from the vein.

Mr. SUTRO. While you were there, did you enter the Savage mine, or the Hale and Norcross?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Why did you not?

A. Arrangements were to have been made by the superintendent to admit us into the Savage, but, in the first place, they were flooded with water; they had struck what you might call a bonanza of water, and the water swept out into the Hale and Norcross. The arrangements were to have been made. "We expected to go into the Sayage mine, but the shaft was out of order.

Q. Why couldn't you go down the other mine; they were connected?

A. Well, there were some difficulties in the way. It was necessary to have the permission of'the superintendent.

Q. They didn't seem to wish to have you go down? They threw obstacles in the way?

A. They didn't seem to — they didn't object; no objection was made; but we couldn't make arrangements for the purpose of going down, some way.

Q. You couldn't visit a mine, except by permission of the superintendent ?

A. No.

Q. Did you visit any mine where the superintendent or foreman of the mine was not constantly with you?

A. Yes, sir, I did one; but not what is considered on the Comstock.

Q. On the Comstock lode you visited the mines only under the guidance of these superintendents, and they. only took you to such places as they wished to show you?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have any way of getting into any portion of the mine where you desired to go? Could you have done it on your own part?

A. Well, we might have done it, but in the intricacies of the mines probably we should have been lost, and very likely not found our way out very soon.

Q. They only took you to such portions of the mines as they wished to show you, you being their guests, as you may say?

A. They never refused when a wish was expressed to go to any part of the mines.

Q. Are the workings of these mines very intricate?

A. Yes, they are very extensive.

Q. Are there many miles of drifts in these mines?

A. Yes, a good many. I don't know how many, of course.

Q. Would it be possible for a stranger to go and find out where these bodies of low-grade ores are without a guide?

A. "Well, he might stumble upon them, or he might not. It would be a difficult matter, at all events. I saw a good deal of low-grade ores, and took off specimens as I went. I carried with me my satchel and hammer, and where I thought there were low-grade ores, I took them otf and examined them, and compared them with others.

Q. Provided the foreman or superintendent of a mine would want to mislead you about the condition of the mine, could he take you down into that mine and show you only such parts of it as would mislead you?

A. If he wished to do it, of course he could.

Q. Would it be possible for you to tell whether he did or not, taking into consideration the intricacies of the workings of those mines?

A. It would be impossible for a man unacquainted with the mines to traverse them, and make a thorough examination, without the aid of the superintendents or some persons who are acquainted.

Q. You entered these mines entirely under the guidance of these superintendents or their foremen, and only visited such parts as thej^took you to ?

A. That is all. I don't think they would-have objected, however, to our going to any part, if we had expressed the •wish. By the time they had taken us around all they wanted to, we were glad enough to go out. .

Q. Would it be possible, Professor, under the circumstances, going to such levels as they took you to, for you

to form a correct idea as to the quantity of water in the mines ?

A. Yes, in the Yellow Jacket I think we could form a pretty good estimate ?

Q. There was very little water in the Yellow Jacket mine, I believe?

A. There was a strong current of water, running pretty rapidly.

Q. In the Yellow Jacket?

A. In the Yellow Jacket.

Q. The superintendent states there was not one inch of water there?

A. Well, there was a strong current of water running.

Q. "Which way was it running?

A. Nearly east, I think; no?< rather northeast.

Q. The Yellow Jacket and Crown Point connect?

A. That's the same -I refer to. The water runs from the Crown Point into the Yellow Jacket.

Q. Are you not mistaken ? Isn't the Crown Point mine the deeper of the two ?

A. It has drifted the deepest, but at the level we were on the other is higher. The water came — a portion of it — from Crown Point. That's what they told us.

Q. I think you have got the locality reversed?

A. I don't think I have.

Q. The Yellow Jacket mine is the higher mine, and the wates runs from that into the Crown Point mine. They were not pumping any at the Yellow Jacket?

A. Well, I noticed a strong current of water running. It was covered. I don't know where it was running to. I don't recollect about that particularly; fyut I recollect distinctly about the water in that mine, and the water was quite warm. I thought it the wettest mine that I had visited.

Q. Which one ?

A. The Yellow Jacket.

Q. Are you not mistaken about the locality?

A. No, I am positive with regard to the mine. I am

not quite so positive with regard to the course the water was running.

Q. The Crown Point makes no statement here. They were pumping a large quantity of water. The Yellow Jacket was not pumping. The water was running iuto the Crown Point?

A. It may have been running into the Crown Point, but there was quite a strong current of water running from, that mine.

Q. How much water was there ?

A. Oh, I couldn't tell you; it was covered up; but we could hear it going along, and in places we could slip our fingers in.

Q. Was there an inch of water?

A. No, I think not.

Q. Was it running rapidly?

A. One inch of water might spread over a large surface, say 18 inches. It was running rapidly.

Q. Well, say a miner's inch?

A. Well, it was more than that. There was more water in that mine than in any other mine that we visited, with one exception, and that was on another lode, not on the Comstock; at least I noticed more water there. Portions of the mine were quite dry.

Q. What advantages would there be at the mouth of the tunnel as an abode for people compared with Virginia City? Would you consider the climate better down there?

A. Yes, I should judge the climate would be better, because you are not so elevated there. Virginia City is pretty well elevated.

Q. How much lower are you ?

A. I suppose 2,000 feet.

Q. What chances are there there for people to have little gardens and more comforts ?

A. Oh, they could raise vegetables there, if they could get water to irrigate the soil.

Q. Have you seen anything growing down to the rnouth of the tunnel?

A. Yes, I have had the privilege of eating vegetables there that were very good.

Q. All that is required is a little water ?

A. I don't know how little. It would require some quantity, enough to moisten the earth.

Q. With water you can raise any kind of vegetables down there?

A. Not any kind; a variety suited to the climate and latitude. I know a great many vegetable you could raise there.

Q. Well, they can raise the more hardy vegetables there, at least ?

A. I don't believe they can grow tallow there, for one thing.

Q. By having a little patch of ground down there at the mouth of the tunnel, could the miners raise some vegetables, and keep a cow, and get more of the comforts of life than they do up to Virginia City?

A. They would have greater facilities for doing so. Whether-they would improve them or not, I cannot tell.

Q. Well, a good many of these miners have families, have they not ?

A. That I don't know. It is to be presumed they have.

Q. Well, have you seen anything about Virginia City that is adapted to any sort of gardening or agriculture?

A. Yes, there was one place where they can get a little water, and where they have got a very nice little place — G-eneral Van Bokelens. He has got some trees.

Q. I mean generally speaking?

A. Generally speaking, no.

Q. Is there much besides rocks ?

A. Plenty of rocks and wind.

Q. Could timber and firewood be supplied at the mouth of the tunnel any cheaper than at Virginia City by floating down the Carson river?

A. I should think they could, unless they are delivered by railroad for nothing.

Q. Are they very apt to deliver anything for nothing up there ?

A. Well, yes; they extended to us the courtesy of the railroad.

Q. Do you know o£any difficulty in running timbers and wood down the Carson river?

A. If there were sufficient water I don't know of any difficulty.

Q. Do you know of any law in Nevada to compel every man that has a dam on the river to leave a chute open to allow timbers and wood to pass through ?

A. You must ask somebody besides me.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. You better consult the statutes.

Mr. SUTRO. The statutes will show it.

Mr. SESSIONS. Are these chutes in all the dams?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. ISTo, sir; there are no chutes in any of the dams.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, there is a law allowing the running of lumber, timber, and wood over the dams.

Mr. SESSIONS. How high are the dams ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The highest ones are 24 feet. We were permitted last year to run wood down by paying all the damages to dams. It is the only time it has ever been run down since any of the dams were built.

Mr. SUTRO. Do you see any difficulty, Professor, in floating firewood down the Carson river?

Mr. NEWCOMB. I know no reason against it.

Q. Did you hear of parties floating down thousands of cords last year?

A. That a very large body had been floated down.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Below Empire City?

A. In that neighborhood.

Mr. SUTRO. To the mouth of the tunnel?

A. About the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. Didn't Mr. Bryant, of Empire City, float down thousands of cords last year?

A. Well, I saw Empire City wood, but whether it was floated down the Carson or not I couldn't say.

Q. They get their wood in the Sierra Nevada mountains and bring it down. Is there anything to prevent them floating it down the Carson river, provided they prepare their wood and have it ail ready to float down?

A. I know of no obstructions, unl^s there is something in the river to prevent it.

Q. The parties over there proposed last fall to furnish us some millions

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, if the chairman please, I object to any statements from Mr. Sutro.

Mr. SESSIONS. It is pretty remote.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, I will read a telegram dated

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to it.

Mr. SESSIONS. What is proposed to be shown?

Mr. SUTRO. I want to prove this: The gentleman who has floated all the lumber and timber down Carson river for several years proposed to contract with me last fall to float down a large quantity of mining timber and firewood to the mouth of the tunnel; but we did not know exactly what we wanted, and we didn't make the contract. He told me at that time that it was necessary to" contract early for it in order to get it. I telegraphed to him yesterday in order to find out at what price they could deliver it; but he telegraphs to-day:

" I can't furnish timber, for want of time. Wood $3. I will deliver 5,000 cords of wood at $8.

"Empire City, Nevada, February 23d."

He means to say he will float firewood down at $8 per cord, but he cannot furnish the timber for want of time. He hasn't prepared that timber.

Mr. SESSIONS. Is the firewood cut ?

Mr. SUTRO. Of course.

Mr. SESSIONS. Can they throw it into the river and float it down?

Mr. SUTRO.' Yes, sir; but they have to have men to guide it down. He states the price at $8, but I have no doubt a large contract can be made for $6 per cord, while the wood at Virginia City costs $12 per cord. Timber can be deliveretl

for $18 per thousand, which costs at Virginia City, as far as I know, the lowest, §24 a thousand. Mr. Day, however, stated to General Foster that it could be delivered at $22.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I know they charge as at Virginia City $8 and $9 a cord for the same wood this man telegraphs about.

Mr. SUTRO. This man telegraphs, "wood $8." That man came down to the tunnel half a dozen times to make a t contract, but we were not ready to make it then. Now it is too late to get it, but next year we mean to go there for 20,000 cords of wood and three or four million feet of lumber.

Mr. SESSIONS. Then, if you can put boards or timber in the river, it will float down stream ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. I am quite positive it won't float up.

Mr. SESSIONS. When the water is high enough you can float wood down.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Since that wood was floated down, the largest dams on the river have been erected — the Eureka and the Brunswick.

Mr. SUTRO. I have been told by Mr. Bryant, the man who has been very largely engaged in this business, that there is a law on the statute-book, which allows people to float their lumber and timber over these dams.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. All this timber and lumber, floated from Empire City, by permission of the owners of the Mexican mills, have been floated through their ditch, three miles long.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, how do you account for that 5,000 cords of wood on the river, of which we bought some right beside the tunnel?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I just told you.

Mr. SUTRO. I don't know, Professor, that I have any further questions to ask you. I suppose, Mr. Sunderland, you are-aot ready to ask any questions jh^-night. I would like to ask a few more at our next meeting, or after you get through.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, I would like to ask one question now, and go on at the next meeting.

Mr. SUTRO. All right, then; you go on.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Professor, who is in possession of the Comstock lode?

Mr. NEWCOMB. It is held for the benefit of the stockholders, by the mining corporations, I suppose; and their officers have the control.

Q. You know the fact, I suppose, that the whole Comstock lode is now the property of the different corpora-1 tions that are working it from one end to the other?

A. Well, as far as the Comstock is known, it is.

Q. "With a few exceptions. I mean what is being worked now?

A. We don't know the extent of the Comstock.

Q. I don't know as we do.

A. I think we find it going a mile and a half farther from what we thought.

Q. I think we know it pretty well, but you and I may differ about it. Well, now, has Mr. Sutro or the Sutro Tunnel Company any interest in the Comstock?

A. JSTot that I am aware of.

Q. Has the General Government any interest in it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In the ownership of the mines ?

A. Yes.

Q. What interest— the titles?

A. Yes, the absolute ownership.

Q. What mine?

A. There is one of the mines that has no title. We asked the party why he didn't get it; and that is the Crown Point. They hadn't got a title at the time we were there.

Q. Has the General Government undertaken to exercise any supervision of any acts of ownership over the Comstock since it was first discovered?

tA

A. I don't knw that it has,.

Q. The parties in possession have been permitted to work it from the first to the present time?

A. Yes, provided they pay a certain sum of money per acre for the patents, arid in this case they declined to do that.

Q. Kow, don't you think it a little strange that an outsider, who has no interest in any mine on the Comstock, should come to us there, and tell us that we don't know enough to work our mines property; that he knows a great deal more about it than we do; and then ask the Government to supply him with money to run a tunnel, so that he may work our mines in a better manner than we do now?

A. Well, I suppose men act from motives generally. These motives may be good or bad motives.

Q. I am not talking about the motives. In a free country, where a man has the ownership of property, ain't he generally permitted to use it as he pleases, without anybody interfering?

A. Yes, if he doesn't interfere with other people's rights.

Q. Well, is there any interference with rights in this case?

A. I am not aware that there is.

Mr. SUTRO. "Will you allow me to ask the Doctor another question, just now, Mr. Sunderland?

Mr. SUNDERLAXD. Well, just hold on a moment. You stated (to Mr. Newcomb) that a specimen of ore was brought from the Belcher to Mr. Sharon while you were in his company. Was there any reason why a specimen of ore should not be taken to Mr. Sharon, as well as anybody else, when ore was found in the mine?

A. I know of no reason why. I only stated the fact.

Q. Well, do you know whether ore was taken to other people besides Mr. Sharon ?

A. I do not.

Q. You know that Mr. Sharon bought stock as soota as he got here?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Nothing strange about that, was there?

A. I think it was perfectly natural for him to do it.

Q. Don't you know that other people were buying stock the same way? Didn't the stock go up the next day?

A. He told me the next day that he had lost §2,000 on his purchase. He could have bought it cheaper the first day.

Q. Well, then, others had been buying before Mr. Sharon?

A. I don't know.

Q. Did you ascertain, or did you hear said, that outsiders always got information of a strike in a mine sooner than the officers of the company? Did you ever hear that while you were there?

A. I don't know about the outsiders.

Q. Men not interested in the mines, I mean?

A. I have heard it stated that parties that were perhaps interested to a limited extent may have had others employed to give them information in case of a strike.

Q. When I say outsiders, I mean men that don't hold a share of stock, have nothing to do with the control of a mine, and have no permanent interest there. Don't you know that such men employ miners, at the Comstock, to give them information of strikes before the officers know it?

A. Well, I know the stock board of San Francisco keeps agents for the purpose of giving the earliest information.

Q. Well, don't you know that the miner finds out the ore first?

A. He must.

Q. Ain't it an easy matter for him to feign sickness, get upon the surface, and give information about it to a man that has paid him $5 or $10?

A. Well, I suppose it is possible.

Q. Now, then, will the construction of this tunnel stop that?

A» If the mines are thoroughly opened, yes.

Q. How so? I would like to have that explained.

Mr. SHOWER. Let me hear that again.

Mr. NEWCOMB. If the mine is thoroughly opened, it will expose it, and whatever of real value there is there will be so determined that a transfer of shares will be a fair transaction between the purchaser and the seller. Both will have an opportunity of investigating and learning what it is.

Mr. SUNDEIILAND. Do you mean to say, Doctor, that the mines will be any more thoroughly opened 'with that tunnel than now ?

A. You can open it from the tunnel level in a hundred different places.

Q. Don't you know, Doctor, that one year before that tunnel can be in every mine that is now being worked on the Comstock, except the Sierra Nevada and the Chollar Potosi, which are working upon the surface and nowhere else, and the Overman, will be far below the level of the tunnel?

A. ISTo, I don't know it. They claim that the Crown Point will be down to the tunnel.

Q. How deep is the Crown Point?

A. The Crown Point was down on the l>200-foot level, penetrating to the 1,300-foot, when, we were there.

Q. How far below the Point A, of the Gould and Curry croppings, is the point of that shaft there — the initial point? The initial point is what we all measure from.

Mr. SUTRO. It is the point we originally established.

Mr. jSTEWCOMB. The Crown Point from the initial point will carry you down, I think, some 1,700 feet.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. You were on the 1200-foot level, you say?

A. I think it was the 1,200. They were drifting down upon the 1300-foot level when I was there.

Q. You state in your report that this tunnel will be 1,900 feet, in round numbers, below Point A on this map, (indicating.) 13

A. Yes, which leaves the shaft about 200 feet to go to get to the tunnel level. Q. How long will it take?

A. They said they were not going to work any on the 1,300-foot level until after they had worked out their bonanza above. • That was the information we got.

Q. Don't you know that they are away below the 1,300-foot level?

A. I haven't had any information%bout it since.

Q. Now, I will have to examine you again on that, Doctor. I have got a report of the Gould and Curry company, where they say they made a depth of 294 feet last year; and I -think if you examine all these reports you will find that they lie. General Foster said that in nine montKs that shaft will be below the tunnel.

A. That is possible, if they go on. I can't say how rapidly they will work it.

Q. Didn't you hear a determination expressed there by the superintendent to keep sinking all the time?

A. No, I didn't, except with reference to this particular one. With this one they specified that they would be down to the level of the tunnel by the time it reached them, or before.

Q. That's the Crown Point?

A. Yes.

Mr. SUTRO. "Will you allow me to ask one question here, Mr. Sunderland? t

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Certainly.

Mr. SUTRO. Are you aware that in England the depths of mines are reckoned from the adit level down generally; that that above the adit level is not counted ? Are you aware that all the measurements of the mines of England are given from the adit level down ? That is called the depth. What is above that is not counted?

Mr. NEWCOMB. I have heard it so stated.

Mr. SUTRO. You commence a new series of operations there. They mention the depth of the mine from the adit level, because what is above that is not counted. If a mine

'in England is stated to be 2,000 feet deep, it means it is 2,000 feet from the adit level down?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Have you visited any of those mines in England?

Mr. NEWCOMB. None except the coal mines?

Q. How deep are these adits?

A. Some of them a few hundred feet. I didn't take a memorandum.

Q. Is there anything in the running of these tunnels that would change even the phraseology here of calling the depth of such a shaft so many feet from the top?

A. Oh, no; there is no necessity for it. It is their habit. The adit is the point from which they go down and count. We may begin at the top of Mount Davidson, if we please.

Q. What is the greatest depth that any mines are worked in England?

A. They are down about 3,000 feet.

.Q. How far below any. adit?

A. Well, they are working under the sea.

Q. Yes, I know that. They do that without any tunneling, excepting a few hundred feet under the gro/und?

A. Yes. But the mines that are worked under the sea I did not see.

Q. How long are any of these tunnels that you hare been in or that you know anything about ?

A. Oh, I don't know. I traveled round for three days in the different mines belonging to a. party whom I had been invited to visit.

Q. Do they permit any association, or corporation, or company, in England, to own more than one mine?

A. I know of no law .against it.

Q. ]STor I either. One objection made here by Mr. Sutro is, that too many mines on the Comctock are owned by one association.

Mr. SUTRO.' I didn't say owned, but managed. Various people own them, but these people manage the mines.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Now, Professor, I will just ask yon if you know what vote it takes to elect a board of trustees?

Mr. NEWCOMB. A majority of the stock, I suppose.

Q. Is it at all likely that people who manage the corporations and mines on the Comstock can get control of the stock in San Francisco or Virginia City, where there is a great deal of prejudice, as I understood from Mr. Sutro, against the Bank of California and its friends, unless Ihey buy it?

A. There is a great deal of stock hypothecated I know. In order to get a majority of stock, they have sometimes carried it up to an enormous price in the market. ,

Q. They've got a right to do that, haven't they?

A. Certainly, I suppose so.

Q. Don't the parties controlling the mines on the Comstock generally own a majority of the stock? Can they control a mine there without absolutely owning a majority of the stock?

A. I have heard of instances to the contrary, whether correct or not I do not know; it is merely hearsay.

Q. I would rather you would state what you know, Doctor.

A. Well, I never have paid especial attention to that department; only it is common report that the Bank of California furnishes money out of its funds, holding the stock hypothecated for the payment of the debt, and vote the stock.

Q. Can anybody else do the same thing, Doctor?

A. I suppose so. » I don't know of anything to prevent.

Q. There are plenty of banks and plenty of money there, ain't they?

A. Well, I never had cause to complain of the want of it while I was there, personally.

Q. Well, then, this board of trustees, controlling a corporation, is simply the result of somebody having a majority of the stock to vote at the annual election, is it not?

A. I suppose a majority of the stock rules.

Q. Is there anything wrong about a majority ruling?

A. No, sir; I do not object to that.

Hearing Saturday, February 24.

Mr. RICE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, as counsel for the Sutro Tunnel, Company, I propose to su.bmit some few questions. Professor Ncwcomb, inquiry was made of you last evening by Mr. Sunderland, in substance, whether the owners of the mines upon the Comstock lode should not control their own property, and were not more competent to manage their business than an outsider, and whether they should not be allowed to manage it without interference. Do you not know that the owners of the mines made contracts with Mr. Sutro for mining through the tunnel before they acquired title to the mines, and that they hold their property subject to such contracts?

Mr. IS"EWCOMB. Those superintendents whom we met acknowledged that such a contract had been made, and Mr. Sutro states so also. I know it oftly by hearsay.

Q. Were they not mere squatters upon the lode, holding title only by sufferance of the United States, at the time Mr. Sutro acquired his rights from the Government?

A. There is a mining law in connection with that.

Mr. SBNDERLAND. Mr. Chairman, these are all questions that are determined precisely by the contract. There are copies of that contract in the books here.

Mr. RICE. This is in the nature of a cross-examination. I am speaking of questions you propounded the other night.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Go on. I withdraw the objection.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I will say that there are mining laws in California, as well as in Nevada, that give the discoverer a right; he can register his claim, as it is called, and that is acknowledged as common law upon the subject. He has a claim upon it as his property during the time; but he has no claim, that I am aware of, as against the United States.

Mr. RICE. I wish to ask you now something in regard to ventilation. On page 7 of the commissioners' report,

it appears that the most effective mode of ventilating mines in present use is by connecting contiguous mines by drifts. Are not many of the mines so distant from each other as to render this mode of connection and ventilation very expensive ?

A. It is expensive running drifts from distant points.

Q. Would it be necessary to construct these connecting drifts in succession as the mines are increased in depth, and, if so, how far apart? Wouldn't they have to be much nearer together as they descend, say below 2,000 feet?

A. The connections that are made are down about a hundred feet. There are what are called the 100, 200, and 300-foot levels. As you pass down, the connections can then be made, and whatever be the levels, if they correspond, drifts can be run to connect them without very great difficulty. They would be required, in order to make perfect ventilation, on each level.

Q. So you have to make your drifts, us you get down U/ a point where there isn't sufficient ventilation, by running from one to another?

A. The upper drifts would not benefit the ventilation in levels below them.

Q. Then, would it not be necessary to have these drifts nearer together as you get down to a very groat depth? Wouldn't t-he. heat bo increased?

A. The heat would increase, and the necessity for ventilation, of course, would increase; and, if no other appliances were made, it would require rather frequent connections in order to cool off the rock.

Q. And it would consequently increase the expense of that method of ventilation ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Will you give an estimate of the expense of constructing these drifts per foot? How near together do you judge the mines should be thus connected to render this method of ventilation feasible?

A. The drifts, as they generally run them, are about the ordinary size of drifts used for the purpose of exploration.

It would be equivalent to making an exploring drift. I don't know exactly the size.

Q. About what did you find the cost per foot to be, from your information?

A. AVell, we have it recorded, but I do not recollct the precise amount. It is contained in the reports of the superintendents.

Q. If the Sutro tunnel were completed as contemplated, and the mines along the Comstock connected therewith, either by sinking shafts in the processes of mining, or by boring holes, in which the air could pass freely from the tunnel to the shafts, do you or not judge that ventilation thereby would be much more perfect and economical than l>y any other processes now in use on the lode, without mechanical appliances? If so, please state the facts.

A. There is no question that it would produce ventilation, and what they got thus would be so much clear gain. It would have a tendency to cool off the rock and render it more feasible for working. It would be better for the men as well as better for the mines.

Q. What effect would the constant movirig of cars through the tunnel have on ventilation ?

A. It would agitate the air arid force it forward in the direction in which the cars might be moving, producing considerable of a current if the motion be rapid, say at .the rate of ten miles an hour. It would produce a considerable current of air forward in the shaft.

Q. Would or would not these advantages be very much more marked in mining below the 2,000-foot level ?

A. Well, that is a question in my mind. The effects of the movement of the air would be felt in % the shafts and drifts above rather than below. You have there a stagnant atmosphere, unless you make use of appliances to force air down. I don't see how it could benefit, except in the cooling processes. It would be ^benefit in that respect, because it would tend to cool the rock.

Q. Suppose the tunnel were a new point of operations for mining below, and machinery were placed there to assist

in the ventilation below the tunnel level, say 1,000 or 1,500 feet, (chambers built inside the tunnel and machinery put there to throw in compressed air, for instance,) couldn't that; be done cheaper than it could be from the surface, 2,000 feet above the tunnel ?

A. Certainly; it could be done at very much less expense.

Q. And consequently wouldn't there be a marked benefit in having this new point of operations for ventilation below?

A. Yes; but I understood your question to imply that it was to be done by the motion of cars.

Q. That was merely auxiliary.

A. At the tunnel level, of course, the distance being much less, you woukl have a better chance to cool off than at the surface; the less the distance the more perfect the ventilation.

Q. On page 8 of the commissioner's report, under the head of " DRAINAGE," I find this statement:

" Taking, then, the observations of the commission in connection with the statements of the superintendents of the mining companies, we are of the opinion that the tunnel, for this purpose alone, is not a necessity for the drainage of the Comstock lode. That it will effectively drain all those with which it shall be connected is obvious ; but the same result can be attained by present means at less cost — a cost which, moreover, promises to become still mailer as the mines progress in depth."

And on page 9, under the head of "ECONOMY OF WORK- ING," I find the following :

"The item of drainage is not included in the above, as, the tunnel will thoroughly drain all the mines connected with it without cost."

Now, I assume, from reading this, that in the first paragraph you say that the cost will be less by the present method than by the tunnel after the connection is made. How can you harmonize these? How is it possible, if, as last stated, the mines connected with the tunnel will be drained without cost, to drain them at less dost by the present method, and how can such less cost become smaller as the mines progress in depth ?

A. The whole argument rests upon this proposition, gimply, on the subject of drainage: to construct the tunnel

for the purpose of drainage alone, would be incurring the entire expense we have given for constructing the tunnel. The interest upon that investment would be greater than the present cost of clearing the mines from water, so that it would be really more expensive through the tunnel, if we take the cost and interest into consideration, than to expend §150,000 a year that they admit it costs now to drain.

Q. Then the explanation is, and the idea of the commissioners in this first statement was, that !t would cost more to make this tunnel exclusively for draining purposes than it would to drain the lode by pumping?

A. Exactly. We decided against it as an. absolute necessity for draining.

Q. Precisely. That is a satisfactory explanation.

Mr. SUTRO. Upon what basis did you arrive at that figure, Professor, that the cost is $150,000 a year for pumping?

A. From the statements of the superintendents. They said the cost would not exceed $150,000. The estimate that was made by taking the number of mines we visited, and assuming the figures of those that we did not visit, but which were working, gave an amount less than what was given by the superintendents.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It seems to me the counsel is entirely competent to examine the witness, without having any body else to interfere. I should prefer to have Mr. Sutro wait until the counsel gets through.

Mr. SUTRO. I suppose that is a matter of choice with the counsel.

Mr. RICE. Perhaps it would be more connected to do so. My idea in taking up the examination was to dispose of each appropriate head at once, so as not to have repetition.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. This was gone over last night.

Mr. RICE. Professor, please state fully to the committee your opinion and judgment as to the value of the tunnel for the drainage of mines. "What would be the percentage of saving over the present methods after the completion of the tunnel?

Mr. NBWCOMB. The tunnel will serve to drain the mines without expense, which now, according to one of the superintendents, amounts to $150,000 a year; in other words, it would make a difference of $150,000.

Q. ^Professor, are you familiar with the cost of transportation of heavy low-class merchandise upon the railways of the country?

A. Not especially so. I have heard it stated by an expert, a man very extensively engaged in the business in ISTew England that it could be moved for two cents a ton a mile and pay a profit.

Q. Have you information from any other roads — say the Pennsylvania Central?

A. I have not. I haven't investigated that particular p:irt of this case. The cost varies with the grade of the road.

MR. 8 UN DEE LAND. Two cents a mile, you say.

Mr. NEWCOMB. Two cents a. ton per mile.

Mr. RICE. Now, what is your judgment upon the comparative cost of mining from the tunnel upward, and mining as at present carried on ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. The difference would be, that it is easier to throw a body of ore down than it is to hoist it up ; it is necessarily more economical, but to what degree is difficult to determine.

Q. After the tunnel is completed and a new base established, could not mining be carried on both above and below b-y machinery acting upon the principle of compensation— that is, by cages going down from above the tunnel level and coming up from below it by the one operation—- very extensively?

A. It could be carried on both upward and downward, and if paying ore happens to be above as well as below, it could be carried on very advantageously. But if you had to hoist in one case, and lower a poor quality of ore in the other, that was to be moved out and not worked, the profit would be diminished.

Q. In mining down they have to remove the low grade ores with the paying ore ?

A. In some cases they do it, and in other cases they use the ore for filling in stopes.

Q. Isn't the proportion of low-grade ores that they do not reduce much greater than the paying ores that they do reduce?

A. We were informed so by the superintendents generally; one stated that they were in the habit, in order to use up the ore and equalize things, of mixing poor rock that would not pay with paying rock. Whether that is a rule with them all or not, I don't know.

Q. Should you judge that there would be any special difficulty in operating through this tunnel by connecting the cars by clamps and by letting them run, one after another, upon a chain ?

A. I don't know what difficulty there could be.

Q. Isn't it to your mind, Professor, a self evident fkct, that the operations of mining on the Comstock lode can fee carried on very much cheaper through a tunnel, saving the cost of drainage and providing ventilation, than by the present methods?

A. We have an illustration in the case of a tunnel that is .there now, where they employ but few hands, work rather poor rock, and have their own mill. They work through a tunnel, and the cheapness with which they do it enables them to work up rock worth $16 or $18 a ton, which cannot be done by hoisting works.

Q. You state in your report that the estimated yield of the 'mines in the Comstock lode, as operated at the present time, is §15,000^,000 per annum. Can you state approximately the number of tons of ore reduced to give this result, or, in other words, how much do they raise per day and reduce per day of paying ore?

A. The amount as given to us was figured up at 365,600 tons a year.

Q. About 1,000 tons a day?

A. A trifle over 1,000 tons a day.

Q. In your testimony last evening, I think you stated your opinion to be, that if mills and machinery, such as are

now in use for the reduction of the ores of the Comstock, were erected at the mouth of the tunnel, with such other machinery as might be used by reason of the abundance of water there for washing and power, the ores could be reduced and concentrated at one-half the cost of doing the same work by the present methods, which I think you estimated at $10 50 per ton, or a saving of $5 25 per ton. Upon this basis, what would be the gross amount of saving per annum in producing this $15,000,000 with the tunnel completed and the ores reduced at its mouth ? At §5 25 saving a ton, and 1,000 tons a day, the saving per day would be what?

A. It would be $5,250, as they work Sundays as well as other days.

Q. Well, now, assuming that all the expenses would be equal, excepting the royalty of $2 per ton to the tunnel company, and deducting that charge, what would be the net saving to the owners of the mines per annum ? I would like to have you figure that, and get it accurately. Two dollars from $5 25 would leave $3 25.

A. It would be $1,186,250 per annum.

Q. I think you also gave the opinion that it would be . practicable, with the water power, etc., available at the mouth of the tunnel, and with the introduction of the most improved machinery and processes for reduction and concentration, that ores which would assay $10 per ton might be profitably worked, while by the present methods ores cannot be so worked when assaying less than $30 a toil?

A. That is not correct.

Q. Well, state your case?

A. Starting with $3 a ton for mining, the royalty would carry it up to $5; the expense, of transportation through the tunnel, (they are allowed by the contract 25 cents per mile a ton, but it has been placed at a lower figure by the consent of Mr. Sutro,) at ten cents a ton, would give $5 10. Then the percentage of loss is to be deducted from that. At the present mode of reduction, it amounts to 25 per cent, of the gold, and even more than that of the silver.

from 30 to 35 ; 35 is the amount given by the miners, although they may save up to 30 in some cases : so that we have $3 60 for loss, and that gives $8 70, counting the expense of reduction nothing. Well, if we calculate the reduction expense at §5 25, we can work rock worth $13 95, and make it £n even thing, without any profit.

Q. Then, what would you say is the lowest grade of ores that it would be profitable to work?

A. Well, it would take rock that would assay $15 to make a profit upon.

Q. You think that with those improved works you could work ores down to $15?

A. Yes, sir, upon the present standard of working and of loss. If you can work it down so as to make a saving of 20 or 25 per cent, of the amount, you change the conditions entirely, and the result mmst be different.

Q. Well, what would be that result?

A. If we estimate on working as closely as they do in Europe, with a loss of only 10 per cent, it would 'make $9 70, instead of $13 95: so that ores worth a trifle over $10 a ton might be made to pay.

Q. Now, what, in your opinion, is the amount of ores taken from the Comstock lode which will yield from $15 to $30 per ton, and what is the proportion of such low-grade ores to the whole amount taken out ?

A. As to the latter part of your question it is impossible to determine. We made very especial and persistent inquiries as to the low-grade ores, ranging from $15 to $30.

Mr. SUXDERLAND. From $15 to $30— what, Professor?

Mr. ^"EWCOMB. From $15 to $30 assay, not working. I have the evidence of numerous parties upon the subject.

Mr. RICE. Please read all those which bear upon the question ?

A. In the Lady Bryan there is a mass of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of tons, that will, according to the representations of the superintendent, take the whole body together laying upon the surface, average $8 to the

ton by the assay. In places, he stated, large quantities would yield $15; how much he didn't say. Mr. Requa states that very large bodies of $16 ore exist in the Chollar Potosi. Mr. D. 0. Atkinson, postmaster at Virginia City, informed me that he had the control of the Empire and Imperial mine, or the one adjoining tte Bullion. He struck a body of ore yielding $19 per ton, which <it the time did not pay for working. This was prospected in the middle of tfie quartz lode and ore 100 feet wide for some distance and a depth of 6 feet. Mr. George Atwood has been working as foreman, or in some capacity, in the mines for eight years, in the south mine of the Ophir, and he says there is a body of ore 300 feet by 300 and 100 in depth, of a grade averaging $20 by assay. That has been used for filling in stopes ; the average assay would be $20. Besides this, there is an immense quantity in the North mine a little poorer by assay. That is not yet mined. He further stated that in the Crown Point there is avast amount of ore that will pay $20 a ton on the 200-foot level; that he will engage to take out 50 tons per day for one, two, or five years and pay $2 50 per ton for the ore in place. Has been in connection with that mine for three years, and knows all about the upper levels, of which the present superintendent, he stated, probably knew nothing. He is at present the superintendent of the Eberhart mine, or was at that time. In our examinations and in conversations with the superintendent of the Gould and Curry and the Ophir, it was represented to us that large bodies of low-grade ores, ranging from $15 to $25, existed there.

Q. Professor, from all this can you form any judgment satisfactory to yourself of the proportion of ores which would assay from $15 to $30, as compared with the whole amount of ores taken out, or as compared with the amount of ores that they do work, assaying above that?

A. Oh, it would be merely guess-work. There is no such thing as calculating it.

Q. Well, the best judgment that you can give?

A. The quantity of low-grade 6res undoubtedly is immense

, ranging from $10 np to $30. It would require a great many years to work it out.

Q. "Well, then, to reach it in another way, if you had these appliances that we have spoken of and this tunnel completed, by which all the low-grade ores assaying from $15 to $30 per ton could be profitably worked, what would be the increased value of the Comstock lode?

A. That is a question that no mortal man can answer with anything like an approximation to the truth.

Q. "Well, you could say whether it would be twice or three times?

A. It may be a thousand million of dollars; it may be more; it may be less. It may be about a hundred millions. I can't say anything about it definitely. It's a vast quantity.

Q. Well, it would be a vast increase?

A. It would be- a vast increase. There is no determining it, because you are going down indefinitely with it, and we don't know what the quality of ore is below. We may meet with a whole mass of only $20-rock below the 2,000-foot level.

Q. Well, judging from what has been worked, and from your own information, of course? \

A. It's mere speculation.

Q. If it should continue in the same way, the increased value, would be enormous, would it not?

A. Yes: it would be enormous. There is no question about it in the minds of the commission. I have no reason to doubt it, and, with one exception, all the superintendents expressed themselves so. I will state that evidence was given by one of the miners still further upon that subject. He said that the amount was perfectly enormous; it couldn't be calculated to his certain knowledge. That was the president or other officer of the Miners' League; I do not recollect his name. He stated that the amount of low-grade ores was very great. He said he was then at work.

Q, Speaking of these leagues, Professor, what are they composed of? What interests do they represent?

A. Well, I suppose the labor department especially — the miners' interests.

Q. The operative miners rather than the owners?

A. Yes; the operative miners are the ones that formed the league, undoubtedly. -

Q. Did you get the name of this president?

A. I have it. I can give it, if it is desired.

Mr. SUTRO. Doctor, didn't that party give you an injunction not to use his name; do you recollect? Did he not say it might jeopardize his interests?

A. JSTo, sir.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't want to have anything go in evidence from a man that is afraid to give his name.

Mr. SUTRO. Let the Doctor give his name, if he has it.

Mr. ^TEWCOMB. I have the name. It is James Dockery He is a practical miner.

Sir. RICE. Did you see any officer of the other miners' association ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. I don't know. We met members. We took no particular pains to ascertain their names, but endeavored to get at the general facts.

Q. Was this Mr. Dockery speaking for the association of which he was president?

A. He was speaking, I suppose, as an individual. I happened to ask the question, if. it were true that there were large amounts of low-grade ores in the mines, and he said the quantity was enormous: "incalculable," I think, was his expression. They couldn't determine how much.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. He is a practical miner.

Mr. SUTRO. Are you quite sure it was Mr. Dockery that gave you that statement of the low-grade ores ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Yes, sir. It is so marked in my notebook. It was taken down at the time.

Mr. RICE. In your estimates, Professor, bearing upon the economy of working these mines, what disposal did you make of the raising of the low-grade ores and the waste rock ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. We computed merely the cost of raising

the paying ore. As mentioned particularly in the report of the commission, no approximation could be made of the cost of raising the debris. We had no means of determining the amount, but it was very great.

Q. Well, was that included in the estimate of raising the paying ore?

A. I think not, sir. It was merely the cost of raising paying ore.

Q. Wouldn't that increase the expenses very much of the operations it was estimated for ?

A. It would cost just as much to raise a ton of the country rock as it would a ton of the paying ore.

Q. You obtained no estimates from these superintendents of the amounts of low-grade ores and rocks raised?

A. -They gave no account of them in their report to us.

Q. Well, then, Doctor, is it making a fair comparison of the expensiveness of operating by the present methods and by the tunnel to omit these important items?

A. We mentioned that in the report, making it a point that the amount is very large, and that it would be fair to include it in the amount, but we had not the means of determining it.

Q. If you should arrive at the facts in regard to it, would it not, in your judgment, materially change the figures as to the comparative methods of working?

A. Yes, sir; necessarily.

Q. Wouldn't it, instead of throwing the balance against the one, change it very much on to the other side ?

A. Without going into a calculation, I should think it would.

Q. By the bill now before this committee, it is proposed that the United States shall grant as aid, for the construction of the Sutro tunnel and its branches, certain sums of money, not to exceed in the aggregate $3,000,000, the Government retaining a first mortgage or lien thereupon, together with all engines and machinery and appurtenances thereunto belonging, for the repayment of said moneys, and also twenty-five per centum of the net amount which shall 14

be collected by the tunnel company as tolls for the transportation of ore, rock, and material, or in any other manner. From your investigation and knowledge upon the subject, do you deem it advantageous to the United States to grant such aid, and, according to your best judgment, do you believe that such security upon the property, franchises, and earnings of the company would be ample for the payment of such aid or loan ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I want to have the reporter note an objection to this. %

Mr. NEWCOMB. I should deem it a safe investment, and if I had $3,000',000 to dispose of, I would put it, under those circumstances, in the tunnel.

Mr. RICE. And regard the security as ample?

A. And regard the security as ample ; taking such precautions in regard to it as would insure that the investment be properly and thoroughly made.

Q. Do you or do you not regard the construction of the Sutro tunnel important in its bearing upon geological and scientific research as an exploring work; and if it should successfully demonstrate the downward extension of fissure veins and the value of deep mining, what, in your judgment, would be its effect uponvthe mining interests of the United States and their future development?

A. "Well, as an exploring work, I don't know that any superintendent differed in opinion from me that it might be of very great value. Some expressed their opinion that it would be valuable. My own opinion is very clear upon that subject, that it would be of very great importance in a scientific point of view, and it would lead to similar enterprises, under similar circumstances, with the same character of rock. It would demonstrate whether the ore-bearing character of fissure veins extends downward here as in other countries. It would lead to further works of a similar kind to develop the mining industry of the country to a vast extent. The question in my own mind was, whether it would be applicable to other conditions, where the silver or gold is in combination

with the base metals. I question very much, and yet I am not prepared to give a decided answer, that in the argentiferous galena the effect might be less favorable. I am not prepared to answer for. that portion of it.

Q. Would you judge that, with all fissure veins having the like conditions of this, it would be of very great advantage, and would give encouragement for capitalists to invest their means, this being a demonstration of these great principles and facts?

A. I concur with everybody, I believe, npon that subject that it would be. I don't know of any difference of opinion upon it.

Mr. SUTRO. In the early days of mining on the Comstock lode, did they not run a great number of tunnels for the purposes of exploration and the extraction of ore?

A. To use a common expression among miners, the hills are pretty thoroughly " cayoted; " that is, holes are dug, that may be seen at the present time in almost every direction on the syenite and in all different formations. All the hill-sides are perforated in various directions by the labor by those who were searching for minerals.

Q. This map here, Doctor, shows 68 tunnels perforating the Comstock lode. Is the configuration of the country such that, after the mines had reached to a certain depth, no tunnels could have been .made except by beginning off at a very great distance ?

A. The configuration of the country is such that, to strike it at a low level, no more favorable point could have been selected than the one Mr. Sutro has chosen, in my opinion.

Q. If you will look at this map, you will find that in the early workings they ran their tunnels in from the slope of the mountain, and ran in just as many as they possibly could. The hills rising to the eastward then made it an impossibility to make deeper tunnels, except by going off a number of miles. Do you find that to be correct ?

A. Yes, sir; that is correct, according to the best of my recollection.

Q. In order to arrive at another question, I want to read

from the report of Mr. Eayraond, the United States Commissioner on Mining, a gentleman who has had a vast deal of experience in mining, and who graduated at the mining school of Freiberg. He says, in his report to Congress for 1868, on page 51, in speaking of the difficulties of mining:

"One great cause of trouble is the fact that mining has not on the whole been profitable to individual adventurers ; and of this fact the Comstock lode has furnished a striking example. Nearly $100,000,000 have been extracted from that lode within the past eight years, yet the aggregate cost to the owners has been almost as much. The reason is simple. Unnecessary labor has been employed, and vast sums of money have been wasted in extravagant speculations and litigations, and the root of the whole evil lies in the system of scattered, jealous, individual activity, which has destroyed, by dividing, the resources of the most magnificent ore deposit in the world. Thirty-five or forty companies, each owning from 1,000 to 1,400 feet along the vein, and each (almost without exception) working its own ground independently \ 40 superintendents, 40 presidents, 40 secretaries, 40 boards of directors, all to be supplied with salaries, or, worse yet, with perquisites, or, worst of all, with opportunities to speculate; an army of lawyers and witnesses, peripatetic experts, competing assayers, thousands of miners uniting to keep up the rate of wages- — these explain the heavy expense of Comstock mining. Aside from this immense drain of money, amounting to 20 per cent, of the whole production, the labor actually performed has been, for want of united action, often useless. There have been tunnels enough run by different companies into the Comstock lode to make, if put together, the whole length of the Sutro tunnel. Hardly one of them is good for anything to-day. The Bullion company, which has the deepest shaft on the lode, never had any ore, but has spent, more than a million of dollars in prospecting, while some neighboring mines, like the little Kentuck, have been in bonanza for long periods. Now, this division of a vein, which gives the rich chimney to one owner and the barren intervals to another, is not conducive to economy. The result has proved to be that both owners waste money. All the explorations in the barren mines of the Comstock could have been executed with the money flung away by the mines that have had for a time rich ore."

What I want to ask you, Doctor, is, wouldn't the construction of the Sutro tunnel 'tend to consolidate these mines into united action, and abolish, to a large extent, this multiplicity of superintendents, presidents, secretaries, and boards of trustees, which are now kept up at an enormous expense?

A. The tendency would be in that direction, but it is very difficult to determine what the result would be. Great conflicting interests would be stirred up in making a joint-stock company out of the whole. There would be very great difficulties attending it.

Q. "Wouldn't the management of the mines be put on a rational and united plan of operations by having one base of operation?

A. No doubt it would be of very great advantage. Whether they would see it in that light, I can't say.

Q. According to your opinion, wouldn't it be self-interest to these different mining companies to join under one system of mining, after the completion of the tunnel?

A. They might adopt a uniform system without -uniting their interests. The poor-paying mine would be very glad to outer into a combination with rich-paying mines, but the reverse would not be likely to occur. Those who have a rich bonanza, and are working upon it, wouldn't wish for u partner with no capital.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. IsTo ; I don't know that the Kentuck there would join in with the Bullion.

Mr. SUTRO. Wouldn't the system of equalizing the different mines, so as to make the mine that is ore-yielding contribute to the tunnel, while the non-paying mine would enjoy the benefits of the tunnel for nothing, tend to stimulate exploration, and open up mines which are not now ore-yielding?

Mr. NEWCOMB. There is no doubt about that in my mind.

Q. Then the tunnel would really be putting a premium on explorations by facilitating them ?

A. It would be an incentive for people to explore the mines.

Q. Wouldn't that, in your opinion, increase the yield of bullion on the Comstock to a very large extent, by promoting searches for new bodies of ore, which otherwise would probably never be developed?

A. "Never" is a long word.

Q. Or which would only be developed under great difficulties ?

A. I accept that, and answer in the affirmative.

Q. Mr. Raymond goes on to state:

"At present, however, the tendency is more than ever the other way. As the prospects of mining on the old wasteful plan grow darker and darker, officers, agents, and stockholders bend their energies to save what they can by speculation out of the approaching wreck. We might well afford to leave them to their fate, but for the fact that the effect of the abandonment of the Comslock lode would be almost fatal to systematic and permanent mining in the Pacific States. It would confirm the mischievous feeling that mining is

half grab and half gamble ; that the only way to make money at it is to dig out what rich ore you can get, and then find a fool to buy the property ; or, failing that, to make a fool of that collective individual the public, and unload" yourself of your stock."

Would you consider that about the thing?

A. The case is very well put there. .

Q. You would confirm what Mr. Raymond states?

A. I would confirm that, most emphatically, excepting the remark as to the running out of the material; I shouldn't agree with him upon that point.

Q. Then he states further :

"The Sutro tunnel will do four most important things : it will settle the continuance of the Comstock in depth ; it will inevitably unite the mining companies in many respects, and remove much of the expense of separate pumping, hoisting, prospecting, and general administration; it will render possiole the beneticiation of low-grade ores, absolutely the only basis for rational and permanent mining ; and, finally, by assuring the future, it will kill that speculation which thrives on ignorance of the future."

A. I assent to that proposition.

Q. "Would the tunnel open up the mines in such a manner as to lay bare the lode, so that they cannot speculate any longer on prospective strikes as they do now?

A. It would have that tendency to a very great degree, but it would not, perhaps, entirely do away with speculation. As soon as the lodes were thoroughly explored to a depth of 2,000 feet, they would acquire a knowledge of their value, people who deal in stocks would become informed; and, instead of putting in money simply as a matter of speculation, they would purchase as an investment, and, instead of continually changing, the proprietorship would remain the same.

Q. Do you know, Doctor, that in the mines of Germany they make their explorations so far ahead, that they often have ore enough in sight to keep up their explorations for a great many years ?

A. That is the rule* in most mines that are well conducted.

Q. Do they act on that plan on the Comstock lode ? Do they do any work ahead, so as to secure the mines for the future ?

A. I think they do to some extent, I think they have,

carried on their explorations to a greater or less extent, at the same time that they have been working out their richer bodies of ore.

Q. Isn't the main object to search for rich bodies of ore ; and, when they find them, to crowd in just as many men as can find place to stand, and work and gouge out the ore, so as to make large dividends and run up the stock?

A. That has been the practice to a great extent, to be sure, but still there are further researches continually making in these mines; I think in all the mines that are being worked at the present time. Even in the Crown Point, where there is a large bonanza, they are running drifts for the purpose of determining the value of the mine. They were sinking an incline for working down on the 1,300-foot level when I was there.

Q. Well, Mr. Raymond goes on to state as follows :

" I do not think the tunnel would prove a pecuniary loss in the worst event, since it would also explore in depth a country which is very likely to contain vast bodies of rich ore. All the indications are that the origin of the Comstock bodies was east of the vein, and promising deposits are already known to exist in that direction.

Does that coincide with your views, Doctor ?

A. I couldn't pronounce positively in regard to the richness of the veins to be struck, but I think the evidence is quite conclusive that there will be large bodies of low-grade rock, if not of rich ore, found in the process of construction. There are two that are well known already — the Flowery lode and the Monte Christo — both of which give evidence of containing a good deal of mineral; and at the depth they will be struck by the tunnel they will be likely to yield considerably. It will probably very soon be determined with regard to one of them.

Q. Now, in regard to working the mines to a greater depth below the tunnel level, Mrr Raymond, in a footnote, states:

" The direct saving in drainage is doubled by the fact, that the water now lifted at great expense by steam would, if allowed to fall instead, itself generate a motive power to take the place of steam. Hydraulic engines, utilizing this source of power, are common in the deep mines of Europe, but have never been introduced in this country. In the case under discussion, the conditions •would be extremely favorable, permitting a hydraulic column of 2,000 feet.

Fifty gallons of water per second, with a fall of 2,000 feet, create a working capacity of 1,800 horse-power. Another way of utilizing the water of drainage would be the erection of water wheels underground, by which various operations requiring machinery could be conducted. This, too, is very common in Europe, and, like the use of hydraulic engines, may be introduced with advantage wherever there is deep tunnel drainage. In the absence of deep drainage, both these economical devices of science are out of the question. If the Sutro tunnel is completed to the lode, and connected with deep shafts, the condition is for further explorations to still greater depths will be more favorable than they were at the very surface, since the immense power of the hydraulic column will be at the service of the' miner.1'

Can you see any difficulty, Doctor, in utilizing the water in* those mines, which is stated to exist in large quantities above the 800-foot level, and carrying it down in pipes to the tunnel level for driving machinery?

A. There isn't any difficulty about it; and I should consider it feasible to accumulate the water upon these levels and transfer it in tubes, to create a power for operating the mines to a lower depth than 2,000 feet.

Q. This is a very important subject, this of carrying a water power into the mines. It is a subject that I have often urged, although I have not alluded to it before in this examination. That there could be no difficulty in collecting the water at any point down in the mines is best shown by a statement made by Mr. Batter man, the superintendent of the Gould and Curry company, in his annual report, made December 25, 1871. On page 8, he says :

" Four hundred and twenty-five feet of the shaft have been retimbered, which is now in good working order its entire depth. A tank large enough to accommodate the water of the mine for twelve hours has been buih at the sixth station, materially reducing the cost of pumping."

If these tanks were stationed all along in the different mines, and pipes were carried down to the tunnel level and applied to hydraulic engines, (turbine wheel or other kinds, whatever be most economical,) would you not create a power that would enable you to go down below the tunnel level, say at least 1,000 feet, without any additional power?

A. If you have a supply of water sufficient, it would accomplish that end, no doubt.

Q. Take the statement of the superintendent of the Ophir mine, according to which we have an average for

the last year of 1,005 tons of water, for every 24 hours, hoisted or pumped out of that mine. Supposing that quantity of water were carried to the tunnel level in a pipe and applied to machinery, would it not create a power sufficient to work that mine down to a vary great depth below the tunnel level?

A. It would give power for mechanical working at a very low depth.

Q. Well, could that power not be created at comparatively little cost? Is it not creating a power in the very mines themselves with the water which it is now so much trouble and expense to get out? Could it not be used for the purpose of getting down to greater depths below the

tunnel level ? A. We all understand that, with the weight of a column

of 600 or 800 or 1,000 feet of water, an enormous power is created, and a small amount of it applied to a wheel will produce an action that can be used in the reduction of bres or for the various purposes of mining.

Q. Professor Weissbach, the most eminent engineer of the century, whose works are used in every land in the world, and in every university, and by every engineer, makes the following statement in regard to this power:

"With a fall of 2,000 feet, a working power created by one gallon alone, (equal to one-sixth of a cubic foot, equal to ten pounds of water,) per secpnd, is equal to 20,000 pounds for every foot ; that is, 20,000 divided by 550, equal to 36 horse-power. A quantity of water, 50 gallons, introduced per second, would therefore create a working capacity of 1,800 horse-power."

A. Yes, it is perfectly enormous.

Q. In your opinion, Doctor, could not reservoirs be created on the surface, even several mites away from the Corn-stock lode, at desirable points, where the configuration is such that great dams could be erected and lakes formed, which would be filled during the winter by water and snow, and supply an additional power in these shafts than what could be obtained from the water in the mines themselves?

A. Oh, there is no doubt it could be accomplished. The expense is a matter that I am not prepared to answer. We

know that the accumulation of water mostly is made for the water-works in small tunnels that perforate the mountains in various directions, not to very great depths, giving supplies to Virginia City. As I understood when I was there, they have in contemplation the bringing of the water from a greater distance. Whether they have accomplished that or not I don't know. It shows that the water can be accumulated as you suppose.

Q. I refer to the water that may be obtained during the winter months. As the snow melts it gives a large quantity of water, and by erecting dams at suitable points in the ravines, within five or ten miles of Virginia City, do you not think that a supply could be obtained that would last the year round?

A. I think there is no doubt that within a limited distance you could get all the water required for your object.

Q. Are you aware, Professor, that in the Harz mountains, and in Freiberg, where mining is probably carried on more intelligently than anywhere else in the world, they have dozens of such lakes and reservoirs, which are applied in the very manner I mention?

A. Yes,, sir.

Q. I want to ask ypu still another question in that connection, which almost escaped my mind. Is it possible in mining to apply any water-power of this kind within the mines, or utilize the water which falls on the surface and is caught in reservoirs, except by having a deep tunnel to

lead it off?

A. If you let it in a mine not connected with a tunnel,

you have to pump it up again, and that would cost more than the gain would be. You might as well use the power you have in the first place.

Q. Would it be possible practically?

A. It would not be practically possible.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't understand either the last question or the answer. What was it?

Mr. SUTRO. My question was this : Is it possible in the mines to utilize a water power created by the water con-

/

tained in the mine, or by accumulated water outside of the mine, except by having a deep tunnel to carry it off after it is used? The operation of this water power is such, that you place your hydraulic machinery at the tunnel level, at the point where it connects with the shaft, and the water column comes down and drives the machinery and discharges itself, then running out of its own accord. The water which it pumps from below the adit is also discharged through the tunnel. Isn't that the way you understand the operation ?

A. Yes, sir; that is the mode of operation.

Q. What is there to prevent this power being applied also to the purpose of hoisting ores from below the adit level?

A. Why, it would be useful for any mechanical appliance.

Q. Couldn't that water power also be used for condensing air and-ventilating the mines below the tunnel level?

A. You might use condensers at that point. All you want to condense air is power; and you get power by the application of water.

Q. The great argument, Doctor, against the tunnel, for the last live or six years, has been that there is no ore below, and that it would be necessary first to discover ore in great depth before the tunnel would really be required.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, that isn't the argument at all, Mr. Sutro.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland, I propose to read from Mr. King's report on page 166 :

" Should these shafts, with their connecting prospecting works, placed as they are at intervals along the length of the lode, fail to develop any valuable bodies of ore indepth, the tunnel would not be likely to do so, and there, would be no necessity for its existence. On the other hand, should these explorations prove the existence of great bodies of ore in depth, the tunnel would become a great desideratum, if not an absolute necessity."

Well, they have discovered those now. That objection is removed. I want to read again from Mr. Raymond's report for 1870, on page 93. After speaking of some discoveries

which have been made in the Comstock lode, he goes on to say :

"Since much doubt has been thrown upon the enterprise of Mr. Sutro, on account of the alleged barrenness of the Comstock in depth, it is fortunate that this development has occurred in time to encourage the prosecution of the much-needed deep tunnel. This tunnel is now in process of construction, and has been carried in about 1,900 feet, through various alternations of rock, and several veins, none of which, so far as I am aware, have been prospected. A good deal of water has been met with, which may be considered, so far as it goes, a favorable indication of the existence of fissure veins in the neighborhood, although at the inconsiderable depth thus far attained the significance of its occurrence is not important. My opinion as to the necessity and value of this tunnel remains unchanged, except so far as it has been strengthened by recent developments upon the Comstock. As a means of exploring that vein to a depth heretofore unattained in metal-mining, it would be indispensable. Some of the mines in the Comstock are now approaching the level of the tunnel survey; but "the expense and difficulty of going deeper will be wellnigh insurmountable, without an adit as a new basis of operations. The effect of a tunnel, adequate for drainage, transportation, and ventilation, is to create a new artificial surface, with the added advantage of a hydraulic power, measured by the quantity of water and the height of its fall above the tunnel level. A few months ago, suggestions of this nature were met with the reply, that the Comstock shafts were not finding ore in depth, and that nobody was likely to desire to go much deeper in barren ground. In successive reports I have uniformly regarded this barren ground as a zone beyond which ore bodies would again be found; and this opinion is now so far confirmed, that I presume no one will discourage further explorations in depth, up to the limits of mechanical practicability."

Do you think, Doctor, that there are any doubts entertained, after the discoveries which were made in the Crown Point mine, in the Belcher mine, at the 1,200 and 1,300-foot level, and lately in the Savage mine, at the 1,400-foot level, that the Comstock lode extends downward indefinitely?

A. I had no doubt of it before the discoveries were made. They only confirm the opinion I have often expressed upon the subject.

Q. In your opinion, Doctor, would not the introduction of an intelligent, rational system of mining have an influence upon the whole mining interests of this country, of such a character as to give a stimulus to the business that we cannot now comprehend?

A. It would have a powerful effect upon our mining interests, and to the advantage of those interests. I conceive that the whole extent of country through that region is comparatively worthless, with the exception of the mining interests. The Almighty has given us minerals there

in compensation for lack of anything else, and has given an abundant supply.

Q. That being the case, Doctor, would not the populating and settling of that vast area create a market for the grain products of the "Western States and the manufactures of the East?

A. Well, every industry that is encouraged fosters other industries, for one is dependent upon the other to a very great degree. There is no question that, if our mining interest were fostered by the Government, other interests would be aided as well. In mining extensive machinery is required; clothing is required; the necessaries of life must be brought from elsewhere usually. Whatever benefits mining benefits the East and the West in other interests, and the mines are the very life-blood of Nevada.

Q. As a consequence, it would enhance the value very much of these Pacific railroads in which the Government is interested?

A. Well, I am not fully posted upon that. You must get experts on that. It carried me safely over; that was all I required. They have been stuck this winter pretty badly.

Q. I want to recur now, Professor, to a question which was put to you by Mr. Sunderland yesterday, whether the mine-owners ought not to be the best judges how to work their mines, and whether they don't understand their interests better than an outsider. In this connection I want to ask you whether you are aware that the construction of this tunnel was first authorized by the Legislature of Nevada; that contracts were entered into by nearly all these mining companies; and that the work was authorized by special act of Congress?

A. I am aware of all t&ose things ; and that the patents were received from the Land Office, subject to the condition of the payment of $2 a ton for the working ore that might be raised or removed through the tunnel.

Q. That's the very point I want to get at. I have a copy of a patent here, which was specially gotten up by the

authorities in "Washington for these mines on the Corn-stock lode. This patent, which gives the title to those mines, contains a clause which I wish you to read, Doctor — the fourth clause ? A.

"Fourth. That the claim hereby granted and conveyed shall be subject to the condition specified in the 3d section of the act of Congress approved July 25, 1866, granting to A. Sutro the right of way and other privileges to aid in the construction of a draining and exploring tunnel to the Comstock lode, in the State of Nevada ; and the grantee herein shall contribute and pay to the owners of the tunnel, constructed pursuant to said act, for drainage or other benefits derived from said tunnel, or its advantage, the same rate of charges as have been, or may hereafter be, named in agreement between such owners and the companies representing a majority of the estimated value of said Comstock lode at the time of the passage of said act, as provided in said 3d section."

Q. Have they any title to their mines hut what they get from the United States Government?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to that.

Mr. NEWCOMB. They have none but a squatter's title. It is sometimes called a "squatter's title," sometimes called a "miner's title."

Mr. SUTRO. Since this question has been brought up by Mr. Sunderland, I think it is proper to throw some light upon it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. We all know what the law is.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland has spoken of the tunnel company as an outside party.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, and I do.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, it seems from the patents, and by the documents in relation to it, that the tunnel company derives its rights directly from the Government, and that the titles to-these mines were only granted upon condition that they comply with certain conditions imposed by law.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The contracts have never been complied with by Mr. Sutro. •

Mr. SUTRO. Well> if this question comes up here before the cominittee, I propose to show that, if the contracts have not been complied with, it has not been the fault of the tunnel company; but that it has been due to the machinations

of the Bank of California, which has tried to upset them.

Mr. SHOBER. Shall we go into that field of inquiry?

Mr. SUTRO. It would be a pretty lengthy one.

Mr, SESSIONS. I don't understand that Mr. Sutro proposes to.

Mr. SUTRO. I don't propose to go into it. I simply want to ask certain questions, in order, to explain a question which was put by Mr. Sunderland, and it would probably be desirable and proper to quote from a debate in Congress, where this very question was discussed and settled finally, by a vote of 42 to 124.

Mr. NEWCOMB. Well, I wouldn't go into that. That will come up in your argument.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to it,

Mr. SESSIONS. Ask your question, Mr. Sutro. "WVll see what it will be.

Mr. SUTRO. I wanted to get at the point, whether these people over there had any title ; whether they have anything to complain of; whether they were not simply squatters, who went on the land at sufferance of the Government?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is a question of law, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SESSIONS. It appears already that they have no title, excepting1 that which they get from the General Government. This title, which has been read here, shows that they took their titles in subordination to the grants made to the Sutro Tunnel Company, as embodied in the act of Congress.

Mr. SUTRO. I will drop that part of it. It will lead too far to go into the subject. Doctor, I want to ask you a question which came up in the examination of General Foster, and that is in regard to this statement about the cost of hoisting ore in the commissioners' report. I want to get at a matter which I don't think is fairly understood. "What proportion of the Comstock lode is engaged simply in prospecting, and consequently only hoisting refuse rock —

country rock? Can you form any idea of what that proportion is, as compared to that part which is productive? Commencing at the south end, we have first the Overman and Uncle Sam ; were they doing anything but prospecting?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Nothing, when we are there.

Q. Did they take out any ore in depth ?

A. Not that I am aware of.

Q. Then we have the Segregated Belcher; were they taking out any ore ?

A. That I don't know.

Q. The Belcher company have since discovered ore, I believe ?

A. About the time of our leaving they struck a large bonanza.

Q. Then there is the Crown Point ?

A. The Crown Point is productive.

H. Then there is the Yellow Jacket?

A. The Yellow Jacket was yielding at low depths and very generally.

Q. Then came the Burke and Hamilton, Gold Hill; did they have anything?

A. I don't know.

Q. "Then there is the Confidence; it belongs to the Gold Hill mines?

A. I am not posted upon whether these mines extending .through here produce anything, or but very little.

Q. Then that would include the Challenge and Imperial ; do you know anything about the Imperial ?

A. I don't know anything about the Imperial.

Q. Do they produce any ore in depth?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Then there come the Rice Ground, Consolidated, Winters and Kustel, Pi-Ute, Bowers' Plato, Empire South, French, Eclipse, Empire North, Bacon, Imperial, and Apple and Bates. They all belong to Gold Hill. Do any of them produce anything?

A. Nothing that I heard of.

Q. Then there is the Alpha; did that produce anything?)

A. I don't know about it.

Q. Then there is the Exchequer.

A. I know nothing about it.

Q. There is the Bullion.

A. The Bullion has made pretty extensive excavations, without getting anything from the start.

Q. Then there is the Chollar Potosi?

A. That is yielding.

Q. "Not in depth?

A. They are not working in depth. I don't know how much it might yield in depth. They were working upon the upper levels.

Q. Then comes the Hale and Norcross ?

A. Working when we were there.

Q. And the Savage?

A. Working.

Q. Did the Savage have anything in depth at that time?

A. Not in depth.

Q. Did the Gould and Curry have anything in depth?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did the Best and Belcher have anything, or the White and Murphy, or the Central, or the California?

A. A number of these have been united into the Consolidated Virginia.

Q. Has the Central anything ?

A. Nothing that I know of.

Q. Has the Ophir anything?

A. Nothing.

Q. The Mexican?

A. They were working, but at no great depth.

Q. I mean in depth ; have they anything in depth?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Then comes the Ophir north mine; have they anything?

A. Nothing.

Q. Has the Union anything ?

A. Nothing. 15

Q. The Sierra Nevada ?

A. They were working on the surface ; nowhere else.

A. Nothing that we could learn.

Q. The Allen?

A. Nothing.

Q. And the Utah?

A. That was the same.

Q. Then, according to this, a very large proportion, probably three-quarters of the lode, to say the least, is simply being prospected; they are not taking out any ore. Does that agree with your ideas ?

A. There is a very large proportion of them that were either not working at all or were merely prospecting.

Q. Now, supposing this tunnel were in, and these mines that I have just enumerated were all connected with it, could they not carry on their prospecting works at an immensely less cost than now ?

A. Most assuredly they could.

Q. Would they have to pay anything to the Tunnel Company while they were only prospecting and taking out no ore?

A. They would have to pay no royalty.

Q. In fact, would they be compelled to pay anything? Would it not be optional with them to take out the rock by shafts, or any way they pleased, and still get the benefit of the tunnel for drainage and ventilation ?

A. Yes.

Q. That is the way you understand it. Consequently, the tunnel would be of immense benefit to those parts of the Comstock lode which are unproductive?

A. It would save the expenditure of a good deal of money for purposes of drainage and ventilation.

Q. Would you then, Doctor, consider it fair to make this comparison in this report here in regard to the cost of hoisting the ore and pumping water ?

A. The statement in that report is made with reference to the paying rock that was removed. We hadn't the data to

arrive at anything like an estimate of waste rock, and it is especially stated that that was an element that should be included, but is not.

Q. Yes; but not being included, is that a fair comparison, to give the cost of working, as they do, at $1,035,000, and at the lowest estimate through the tunnel at $1,169,000. "Would you consider that a. fair figure?

A. It would be a fair figure, if we could bave made the addition of the refuse rock, (there are three, and perhaps five tons of refuse rock where there is one worked.) I insisted on having that included in the amount, or requested that it might be done rather ; but we couldn't arrive at it, and it was considered sufficient to make the general statement that that is not included, and that it is a large amount.

Q. Well, if you would have included all the workings of the mines which had no or£, wouldn't that sum of $1,035,000 have been very largely increased? Instead of $1,000,000, would it not have been nearly $3,000,000, if you had included the expense of all these prospecting mines?

A. We could not bring the elements of computation to bear upon where they were not working or producing nothing. We got from the superintendents the basis, of the calculations, supposing that they would give it accurately. They mentioned, as was evident to our eyes, that vast amounts of country rock had to be raised and thrown off and clumped. The computation was really for working where the rock was rich, entirely so, with no refuse matter ; and it was so stated in the report. It doesn't give a fair estimate of the actual expense.

Q. But looking at the statements of these superintendents, from the general information that you could gather, that they were opposed to the tunnel, no matter whether from their own opinions or from the opinions of others, would it be fair to take these statements altogether for granted as correct?

A. We had to get the best material we could. They looked like honorable men, honest men, strongly prejudiced

against the tunnel. We gave their statements for what they were worth. We were under the necessity of making an estimate, and we had to use such data as we could procure. It would, in my opinion, have been right to include the waste rock that was raised as well as the paying ore.

Q. Well, Doctor, don't you think there are honest Republicans and honest Democrats? Would you think it would be fair to the Republican party to take the opinion of a Democrat about it, or the reverse?

A. Well, I shouldn't think of doing such a thing.

Q. Well, that opinion would be a good deal like the statements of these superintendents over there, who are entirely opposed to the tunnel. They belong to a different party, and it would hardly be fair to the tunnel to accept their statements about it, and make them the basis of a report.'

A. We were obliged to work from the figures we could procure.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I suppose the facts are the same, whether stated by a Republican or a Democrat.

Mr. SUTRO. We have gone through those facts pretty well. Doctor, I want to ask you one or more questions in connection with this report here. Mr. Day, in his report here, states, that there will be great difficulty in getting in these men on a railroad; that there will be great confusion, etc. Do you think that there would be any difficulty in taking in a thousand men at a time, stopping the train at each shaft, and letting off the cars containing these men?

A. I shouldn't think there would be any difficulty. There would be the same difficulty, perhaps a little more than we experience in receiving and landing passengers on a railroad.

Q. He furthermore states, that they will have to climb up ladders, and that they will get to their work in an exhausted condition, positively unfit and unable to do a day's work. Have you seen $. drawing of this apparatus for hoisting men and lowering rock?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you see any difficulty in its operations?

A. No more difficulty than by the present way of hoisting ore and lowering men.

Q. Then he speaks about a "tedious, slow, and expensive route," over which the timber is to be brought in. Do you see any difficulty in carrying in timber on a railroad train, having your cars loaded, and delivering it at these shafts, and then hoisting up the timbers the same as they are now lowered do*wn?

A. I cannot see where the difficulty would exist, or where there would be any real difference between hoisting and lowering the timbers. I thought a good deal upon that subject, because it was made a strong point, and was pretty thoroughly discussed.

Q. Then he says that, in case there should be a cave threatened in the mine, the order would have to be sent down a ladder to get to the tunnel, and then away out to the mouth, five miles, and that a* great deal of time would be lost in that manner. Do you consider that much time would be lost in running in these timbers on a railroad train going at the rate of ten miles an hour, when you can carry in as many thousand of feet as required?

A. Well, i suppose from the time of giving the order to the delivery of timber there might be from thirty to fifty minutes. That is, to get it in.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. From what point, Doctor?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Four or five miles off.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. To any one of the mines in the Corn-stock ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Anywhere within a range of five miles.

Mr. SUTRO. The tunnel is not quite four miles in length, and a mile or a mile and a. half either way would reach any mine?

Mr. NEWCOMB. An hour would be the outside of the time required to get timbers in. They could have a telegraph established between the interior workings of the mine or the tunnel to the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. How many men do they lower at a time into these shafts ?

A. Well, now, that's a peculiar question. It depends entirely upon the sizes of the men.

Q. How many ordinary-sized men? How many do they ordinarily take ?

A. I think there were six when we went down in the cage.

Q. Were you packed in pretty close ?

A. Well, we were pretty large-size^ men, with the 'exception of myself and two others.

Q. How long do you think it would take to let a cage down with a lot of men, taking the speed at which they run cages when men are on them, leave the men at the bottom, and hoist up another lot?

A. How deep would you go?

Q. Say 2, 000 feet; down to the tunnel level.

A. Well, I think the cages would average six men each. I have tried the elevating of material, not men; they vary, but I have a sort of approximation.

Q. There is a very great difference between lowering rock and lowering men. They are more cautious with men ?

A. I am aware there is a difference. They lower slower with men on.

Q. How much time do you think it would take to lower a set of men to a depth of 2,000 feet?

A. I shouldn't think it would be safe \p lower a cage down that far certainly in less than five minutes. It could be done quicker.

Q. Say five minutes to go down and five to come up. Is that your statement ?

A. If loaded, yes.

Q. Well, there is ten minutee; and you say six men go on a cage. Suppose you have to let down a thousand men in one shaft.

A. There are six men on a cage, but they can carry more than that. They can run them down safely in two cages.

Q. Have you ever seen a double set of men go down ? How many men have you ever seen on a cage at one time?

A. I have seen them come up double.

Q. How many at a time ?

A. Twelve. I think there could not have been more than twelve. Perhaps it might have been a less number.

Q. Well, taking your maximum number, twelve even, it would take them eighty-three trips to get down. That would make, at ten minutes, fourteen hours to take down a thousand men at one point. Now, in going down

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I want to know if the Doctor assents to that: If lie does, all right. I want to have his testimony.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I don't vouch for the calculations.

Mr. SUTRO. The Doctor has stated that twelve men go down at one trip, as a maximum. There are a thousand men, which would make eighty-three trips and a fraction over. Is that right?

Mr. NEWCOMB. It would be a little over eighty-three trips.

Q. At ten minutes each, it makes 830 minutes, don't it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, that makes 13 hours and 50 minutes. Is that right?

A. It would be 13 hours 50 minutes.

Q. Now, when these men get down there, why, they have got to go to their respective places and change shift, and then the other men have got to come to the cage and be hoisted out; that would take as long again, would it not?

A. Unless their arrangements were so perfected that they could meet at the shaft. Unless they should have a specified time, and take that time from the work, the one force would be under the necessity of going to-the heading to relieve the other; but by special agreement they could meet at the point of raising.

Q. Then, if they were to meet there, it would take only

13 hours and 50 minutes to lower down 1,000 men and hoist another thousand up ?

A. Yes; they could run up 1,000 and carry down 1,000 in 13 hours and 50 minutes.

Q. But if .these 1,000 going down were to go to those at work and change shift, it would take another 13 hours and 50 minutes to get the 1,000 up?

A. Yes. The time spent in coming from the heading, after being relieved, might be long or short. It would depend upon the distance. There is no computing it accurately. It is mere supposition.

Q. Doctor, I want to ask you one more question about drainage: Can you see any difficulty in making bore-holes from these shafts, to connect with the tunnel below, supposing the tunnel to be completed — bore-holes such as are made in the oil regions?

A. There is no sp'ecial difficulty that I can conceive.

Q. Supposing that were done, would it, not at once relieve the mines from all necessity of pumping?

A. Certainly it would.

Q. While they are prospecting and taking out no ores, these mines would get that drainage and their ventilation for nothing, would they not?

A. For nothing, as I understand it.

Hearing Monday, February 26.

Cross-examination of Professor Newcomb.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. My examination to-night, Doctor, will have to be a little desultory. I will ask you, first, if you visited the Sierra Nevada?

Mr. NEWCOMB. We did, sir; but we didn't go into any of the diggings except on the surface. We looked at those.

Q. Are there any diggings except on the surface?

A. Well, from the books we learn that they have made excavations without finding anything of value below the surface.

Q. The mining is on the surface?

A. Yes, and it is altogether for gold.

Q. Was there any water in that mine ?

A. I don't know how it has been this winter.

Q. Well, when you were there?

A. Of course there was none on the surface.

Mr. PAYNE. Is this a mine or a mountain that you are talking about?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It is a mine. It is a mine that now embraces not only the Sierra Nevada originally, but a great many others tbat have been mentioned here, among which are the Allen and the Sacramento—all the mines north of a certain ravine there, except an old shaft north of the Sierra Nevada, the one that. Mr. Sutro opened. It was located in 1860, and named after Mr. Sutro.

Mr. SUTRO. They opened it and took out some ore there, but I don't think it has been worked for some years.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The Sierra Nevada

i.Ir. NEWCOMB. The Sierra Nevada is emphatically a gold-mining company, working from the surface. That tells the whole story.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It has consolidated with, and acquired by purchase, all the mines north of the ravine, with the exception of one.

Mr. SUTRO. It hasn't got the Allen or the Utah.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It hasn't got the Utah, but it has got the Allen.

Mr. SUTRO. I wasn't aware of that.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The Allen and the Utah and the Sacramento and the Meredith, and I don't know how many others, belong to it.

Mr. PAYNE. You say it hasn't got the Utah?

Mr. SUTRO. No, it hasn't.

Mr: SUNDERLAND. That is farther north, and probably don't conflict with it at all.

Mr. NEWCOMB. It's of no consequence about that class of mine. It yields tolerably well from surface digging.

Mr. SUTRO. You wouldn't call that a placer mine? That is not a part of the Coinstock.

Mr. NEWCOMB. It would come nearer to placer digging than to actual mining.

Mr. SUTRO. In other words, they take off the surface and work it. It isn't a part of the Comstock proper. It isn't really the Comstock lode.

Mr. NEWCOMB. "Well, we understand that the Comstock extends even beyond that point.

Mr. SUTRO. But is this not of the character of placer diggings where they are taking that ore from ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. It's surface digging. That's enough. They are excavating from the surface, and working for gold, not silver.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Do you consider the Sierra Nevada mines a part of the Comstock or not?

Mr. NEWCOMB. It is a part of the Comstock, or it is on the Comstock, whichever you choose.

Mr. KENDALL. You would consider it, Professor, ^the croppings of the Comstock lode, perhaps?

A.. The character of the rock is different from what we get as we pass down. It is very likely washed from some little distance. It is emphatically gold mining ; nothing else.

Mr. SUTRO. I would like to ask one question right here,

in explanation of this reference to the Sierra Nevada mine. I wish you to say whether you consider that, under our contract, we can collect our royalty from the Sierra Nevada mine?

A. That would be a matter to be decided by the courts.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Isn't that a body of quartz there?

A. Well, it is broken-up rock, as near as my memory serves me. It is a mixture of rock of different kinds : not rock, but broken-up material. There is quartz in it, of a reddish color, if I recollect right. We didn't examine it very critically.

Q. Of a reddish color?

A. I think so.

Q. Don't you know that always on the surface of the Comstock tho rock has been red, and distinguished by the pitch and by the color from the other bodies of the lode — called red ledge ?

A. I know there is what is called the red ledge, and that there is what is called the red quartz, on the Comstock.

Q. Isn't this similar to the red ledge on other portions of the Comstock?

A. I didn't make the comparison. I should judge that it was the same, as near as my memory serves me, but I will not be positive.

Q. I think you stated on Saturday night that that ore yielded from $15 to $20 a ton, did you not?

A. I didn't say what the Sierra Nevada yielded. We made inquiries in regard to it. The yield is small, but I consider it to be profitable working, because of the simplicity with which operations there may be carried on.

Q. I will read now from Mr. King's report, page 167 :

" During 1869 the company produced and milled 18,000 tons of rock, yielding $155,791 36, or an average of $8 66 per ton. The expenses per ton were as folloVs :

For mining $1 92

For milling 3 03

For incidentals 77

Making a total of -. $5 72

and leaving a profit of $2 94 to the ton." •

Of what benefit to that mine could the Sutro tunnel be?

A. None at all, as I consider, sir; not a particle.

Q. Now I will call your attention to the Chollar. That, I suppose, you visited and examined thoroughly?

A. Yes, sir; the Chollar Potosi.

Q. When I mention the Chollar, I mean the Chollar Potosi. How deep are they working that mine at present?

A. Mining was not carried on when we were there on low levels. It was on the upper levels that they had productive rock.

Q. How deep are they working at present?

A. We did not go into any of the lower levels. We went into the upper levels alone. I haven't marked down the depth to which they have run. I think it was stated by Mr. Requa that they had sunk shafts to a depth of 1,100 or 1,200 feet. It is merely a matter of memory with me.

Q. It is almost 1,250. But they are not working except on the surface?

A. They were not working except on the upper levels. They had a body of ore that they were working that paid remarkably well. It was upon the upper levels; and they expended their force upon it during the year, and made their profits.

Q. Now, can you tell me how deep they were working when you were there ?

A. I cannot. About 500 feet, I suppose. I don't recollect exactly.

Q. Do you think it exceeded 300 ?

A. It might not have been. It may have been 300, 400, or 500 feet that we went down.

Q. Was there any water in the mine ?

A. None to produce any disturbance.

Q. "\V"as there any to require pumping ?

A. I think not.

Q. How was that ore taken out. Was it through a shaft or through a tunnel?

A. Through a shaft.

Q. All of it?

A. All that we knew about.

•

Q. From what depth was that hoisted in the shaft?

A. It was taken out from the levels upon which they were working. I don't recollect whether they were 300 or 400 or 500 feet deep.

Q. It was 178 feet, as stated by Mr. Kequa in his report to you ?

A. Well, I don't recollect the precise number. I can't carry all the figures in my mind.

Q. Could the Sutro tunnel be of any benefit to that mine, so far as there is any ore in sight; so far as you could see any ore?

A. It would be cheaper to raise the ore there 'to the surface than to pass it through the tunnel, if the reduction works could be made equally valuable with the reduction works at the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. I am talking about the mining and the drainage ?

A. The mining could be accomplished as ..cheaply by elevating the ore from that depth as it could if it were dumped into the tunnel, and carried out to its mouth.

Q. How would you lower the ore from the Sierra Nevada or the Chollar Potosi, from the points where it is found in those mines, to the level of the tunnel, taking into consideration the dips of the west wall of the vein?

A. So far as the Sierra Nevada is concerned, it would be preposterous to throw the ore from the surface down into the tunnel. It would require a great deal of excavation, in order to get at the tunnel, in the first place. It is a surface working. With reference to the other mine, unless ore is discovered in low levels, as it may be in the future, it would be of no great utility.

Q. Would it be of any utility at all?

A. Mr. Requa states, in his report, that there is enough of ore in sight to make it profitable for the coming year. At the rate of the previous year's workings, by the close of the year the ore would all be worked out of the upper levels.

Q. I have not his last report. Somebody has borrowed it, I think, from my room. I believe there were 83,000

•

tons worked the year previous to the time you were there. The report was made probably when you were there ?

A. Yes.

Q. The royalty on that would be how much ?

A. Two dollars a ton, of course.

Q. That would be $166,000, would it not?

A. Yes.

Q. "Would there be any recompense to the company for that royalty?

A. Well, there would be none unless deeper diggings are made. If they find a bonanza upon a lower level, there might. They confine themselves now comparatively to the surface. The advantages that would accrue from the tunnel would be to enable them to examine their mine with greater facility than they can now, saving them extensive drifting, saving them going down in their different shafts, that they sink for the purpose of exploring and working from. It would determine for that mine whether the ore exists at a depth of nearly 2,000 feet.

Q. You say it would save extensive drifting. Do you know how near the west wall Mr. Sutro's contracts require him to go ?

A. I did know. I think 150 feet.

Q. It is 500 feet.

A. Well, you can go any distance within 500 feet.

Mr. SUTEO. It is optional.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Are men in the habit of doing more than their contracts require when working under contracts?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Not as a general rule; but there are exceptional cases.

Q. If Mr. Sutro gets the same royalty by going within 500 feet of the west wall as by going nearer, would you expect him to go any nearer with his tunnel ?

A. It would cost no more.

Q. Why not ?

A. Why should it?

Q. 1 ask you the question. You don't ask me.

A. I will explain here that the only point made in connection with it is the dip of the lode. The lateral tunnel running along the ledge should be placed at a sufficient distance to give working operation^ directly down upon the lode at lower depths. It is important that the position should he so far from it as to enable direct shafts, instead of inclines, to be run for the purpose of working favorably in making. investigations at lower depths than 2,000 feet. If placed at 150 feet distant, it would strike the lode at a depth of 150 feet, if the, angle of the rock is 45 degrees. But if farther removed, say at 500 feet, why it would give that depth perpendicular; so that it is left optional, as I understand it, with Mr. Sutro, in running through the propylite, to go within 500 feet, or nearer to itj as he finds the most advantageous.

Q. Where do you learn, Professor, that it is optional with Mr. Sutro whether he will go 500 feet or not? Where did you get that idea of 150 feet?

A. Because we talked the matter over in the commission, and made minutes in reference to it. I may be mistaken about the 150 feet; but we determined upon a point intermediate.

Q. Did your determination compel Mr. Sutro to run within 150 feet of the west wall?

A. No, sir. I suppose it will be according as he finds it of utility. Men are generally governed by their interests, and they will work undoubtedly for their interests in connection with this matter.

Q. How do you say it woi/ t cost any more to run within 150 feet of the west wall than to run within 500 feet? That is a difference of 350 feet. At the size he is required to make his tunnel, what would it cost to run it 350 feet?

A. It might cost more to run it in consequence of keeping upon the vein of ore. Otherwise, if the divergence of the vein were toward the syenite, or to the west, instead of to the east of the vein, he might run it in a direct line, right upon the vein, still farther to the north. In running to the south, this vein matter is not entirely in a right line.

It varies a little from a right line. It is a matter for the parties working to determine what will be for their interests and the interests of the miners, because both their interests will become identical.

Q. Have the owners of the Comstock anything to say about where he shall run his tunnel, if he runs it within 500 feet of the west wall?

A. They might object to its running, if it isn't run in the vein matter.

Q. Have they anything to say about what distance he shall run it towards the west wall, if he runs it within 500 feet?

A. Not that I am aware of.

Q. Then it is left to Mr. Sutro to say whether he will run it within 500 feet or 100.

A. To the Sutro Tunnel Company.

Q. You were speaking the other night about the use of compressed air as a motive power for any machinery located on the level of the Sutro tunnel as a base of operations for a deeper working.

A. It was to manufacture compressed air, and use it together with the water power furnished by the water found in the mines.

Q. Do you know anything about the regularity of the water found? Is there any regular supply in any one of the mines? (

A. I think it is very variable, and that variation is due in great measure to the amount of rain and snow that falls in the winter. It would be large in one season and small in another.

Q. Do you not know, Professor, that the supply of water is more owing to the tapping of reservoirs of water underground, and exhausting these reservoirs, than to anything else?

A. I know that when they strike a clay seam it is not a very uncommon event to be flooded. I think it commenced in the Savage, and extended in the drifts between

that mine and the Hale and Norcross while we were there, arid flooded both.

Q. The Hale and IsTorcross was lower than the -Savage, and the water from the Savage ran in. That was lower when you were there?

A. Not so that we could enter the mines. It was understood to be under control while we were there.

Q. Do you know how deep the Savage shaft was when you were there.

A. I do not.

Q. Do you know how deep it is now ?

A. No, sir; I have no means of knowing, because I didn't visit the mines at all.

Q. Do you know of your own information whether they have been sinking it since you left?

A. I have information that they have been going down, and have struck a bonanza.

Q. Do you think that the supply of water from the mines alone is sufficient to rely upon for any motive power? Do you think it is sufficiently regular?

A. Not without the formation of reservoirs. They may form reservoirs on the 300-foot level to catch all that comes down. "Where you have a column of water 1,500 or 1,600 feet high, it requires a very small amount of it to move a turbine wheel.

Q. Then would you rely upon the water in the mines to any considerable extent for power at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. No. I think there is enough water poured out from the mouth of the tunnel, however, to do a great deal towards concentrating and working the ores. There was a pretty large stream of water running from the tunnel at the time we were there, but I should judge not sufficient for water power.

Q. Did you examine any of the tunnels that had been or were being run, while you were there, by the Virginia City and Gold Hill Water Company, to procure water for the Comstock? 16

A. I was in one tunnel that they had purchased; at least the party told me that he had sold the water-right.

Q. Do you. recollect the name ?

A. Whatever it is, it lies right back of the Crown Point, in the Crown Point ravine.

Q. Do you know anything ahout the regularity of the flow of water in those tunnels that have been or are now being run by the water company ?

Q. I should judge it would vary very materially, for the reason that I assigned with reference to the other matter.

Q. You regard the water found there as surface water, do you not?

A. The greater part of it, with the exception of that which has been, for we know not how long, inclosed in those pockets that we have spoken of. I know, in descending the shafts in some places, the waste water dripped upon us; it came down in quite a stream, as we were going down the shafts, from the upper surface.

Q. You found no subterraneous streams anywhere that you visited, did you?

A. 'Not there.

Q. Anywhere on the Com stock?

A. ~No. The accumulations of water would be in some cases running, but there were not properly called subterranean streams. They were the results of the excavations where I saw running streams. I will try to give you the name

Q. It isn't material. I just wanted to know its location; that is all. For the purpose of compressing air, if there was a sufficient supply of water on the surface of the Comstockj with sufficient fall, couldn't that be bettor utilized than anywhere else in the Comstock or at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. It is to be utilized at the mouth of the tunnel, as I •understand the proposition. It is to be utili, 1 in the mines for further excavations.

Q. That is one of the propositions?

A. The compressed air, as I understand it, is carried

from month of the tunnellnto the mines. It is compressed by water power.

Q. Would it not be much cheaper, having water on the surface, or at a sufficient elevation at the tops of these shafts, to compress the air by means of that water power there and send it down below, and afterwards use the power/ for any purposes required?

A. That would be pumping the water up. The question is one of profit and loss in the transaction. The probability is that it would take as much steam power to raise the water as you would get water power advantage.

Q. Supposing you have water power, Professor, on the Comstock to compress the air and send it down to the tunnel level, would it not be much cheaper than to compress the air by water power at the mouth of the tunnel and send it in four or five miles? Wouldn't the loss be much less?

A. There is friction in the air passing through tubes ; there would be loss of power in sending it in through the mouth of the tunnel, yet the directness of it, with the use of an abundance of water power, which is the cheapest of all power that we are acquainted with, would render it an object to send vast bodies of air through the whole extent of the mines, which is perfectly practicable from the mouth of the tunnel; and that would be cheaper than to manufacture it by steam power and send it down by the shaft.

Q. What did you say that the loss was at the Hoosac tunnel in a mile?

A. That I have forgotten.

Q. I think you stated about 15 per cent.

A. Almost 15 per cent, in running a mile and a half.

Q. What would be the loss, then, for the length of that tunnel ?

A. That would be a matter of speculation. It would depend upon the size of the tube that you send it through. There would, of course, be considerable increase over that amount.

Q. Wouldn't it be the same per mile?

A. No, sir.

Q. Why not?

A. In sending it that distance the tube would be very much larger. The water power would cost nothing. If you take a small tube, of course friction upon the surface and sides would be much more than in a large tube.

Q. Then you would improve upon the tube used at the Hoosac tunnel?

A. That tube was large enough. They sent it from a distance of a mile and a half, and were then generating it by steam.

Q. I am talking now about the use of water power alone for compressing the air. What would be the difference in distance from the top of these shafts down to the 2,000-foot level, and from the mouth of the tunnel into each mine on the Comstock?

A. Well you might make an average of five miles. It would be about that.

Q. From that should be deducted, say 1,600 feet, the average depth of the different shafts. Would the percentage of loss be the same, in proportion to the distance from the mouth of the shaft down, as it would from the mouth of the tunnel in?

A. That is a question that I am not clear upon. If it were passing in horizontally, it would go with greater facility than by forcing it down. It seems the resistance would be greater, and yet it may be a mistake.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland, will you permit me to ask one short question. How are you going to get water power at Virginia City, at the top of the Comstock?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I will ask that question myself. Did you hear anything, Professor, about a project to bring water in from the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada mountains to Virginia City while you were there?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Yes, sir; it was talked of by the water company. Whether it has been accomplished or not, I don't know.

Q. Do you know anything, about the practicability of that project? Did you examine it to ascertain?

A. No, I did not. It didn't belong to our particular province to investigate it.

Q. Suppose that water should be brought in by the water company in an abundant supply, would it not be cheaper then to use that water for compressing air and sending it down the shafts than to use the water of Carson river at the mouth of the tunnel and send it in, on account of the great difference in distance?

A. I should think it would, if they had an abundant supply of water without cost.

Q. Yes, sir; but I don't suppose you would get the Car-eon river without cost.

Mr. SUTRO. They sell water now at Virginia City at §1,000 an inch per month.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't think any body will get the water without cost.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I am only speaking on general principles. Water power is generally cheap.

Q. But the Carson river is private property wherever it has any fall, and will not be acquired by any body without cost.

A. I think that proposition of yours will hold good. I think it will cost a good deal.

Q. You mentioned the Monte Christo mine, or the Monte Christo ledge; which is it?

A. The Monte Christo lode,

Q. That is the ledge upon which you suppose the Lady Bryan mine to be located?

A. Yes, sir. The tunnel would be of no service to that without a branch tunnel upon the lode; that is the Lady Bryan mine.

Q. How far would the tunnel be from the Lady Bryan mine ?

A. I should judge a considerable distance.

Q. Two miles?

A. I don't know. I have no idea of it.

Q. You mentioned the Lady Bryan several times the other evening, Doctor, and therefore I want to make some explanations.

A. Only with reference to the prohable yield upon the lode.

Q. That is north of the Seven Mile canon, is it not?

A. I don't think

Q. That is, below the Gould and Curry mill?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know whether that lode has been traced south of the canon anywhere? Did you find it anywhere?

A. Let me see. I think there is another mine upon the Monte Christo, upon the line of the tunnel — the St. John mine. I think that is on the Monte Christo.

Q. "Why do you think that is upon the Monte Christo?

A. Because their croppings indicate it.

Q. Are not the St. John and the Occidental on the same lode? Cannot you follow the crpppings from one to t]ie other? '

A. I didn't trace the croppings through. It is possible they may be followed.

Q. You didn't examine very particularly, then, to see whether the Occidental and the St. John are upon the same lode or not, did you ?

A. No, sir; I did not. It was a matter of secondary importance. We followed over the track of the tunnel. The Lady Bryan lode is laid down upon the map here as not being upon the Monte Christo lode, but upon the Great Flowery range; and the St. John is on the Monte Christo.

Q. Has any connection ever been traced between any .. mines north of the canon, Doctor, and those south of it, without naming them at all? Is there any connection at all between them?

A. I can't say there is, because it was a matter that we didn't feel in a condition to investigate at the time.

Q. Then do you think, as far as the Lady Bryan is concerned, that the Sutro tunnel would be of any benefit to it?

A. No; I should not think it would be of any service

scarcely, unless they discover, in crossing the track of the. Great Flowery lode, the presence of rich rock, that might pay for extending, as a distinct and separate operation, the tunnel along the track of the Great Flowery, up to the Lady Bryan.

Q. Do you know what amount of base metal there is in the Lady Bryan mine?

A. I do not.

Q. Did you notice that the metal is base ?

A. No, not particularly. I have specimens of it, but I haven't analyzed them at all.

Q. The mining there has generally been done near the surface, has it not ?

A. Oh, it is an immense amount of quartz. It is on the surface — on a mountain that rises up. They have extended it in places by perforating the hill. Whether it is profitable or not I can't say. When we were there they had struck through the great mass of the rock into an interior cavity that was open to the air; the excavations there were very large, and they had moved it through a sort of an opening or tunnel to the outer side. It may be called, if you please, surface digging.

Q. What was your information as to the success that company had had in mining ?

A. Well, the company had gone to the dogs, and had passed into new hands, as I understood it.

Q. It had been unsuccessful, had it not?

A. Yes, sir; so I understood. It had passed into new hands.

Q. Yes. Sorry for it. Well, now, Doctor, we have had considerable information from you about mines and milling. I will ask you what is the extent of your experience either in mining or milling ores ? Where have you mined ?

A. I have had considerable experience in placer mining.

Q. I am talking now about lodes, quartz lodes, containing precious metals. Where have you worked any mine of that character, or where have you milled any ore of that character?

A. I haven't worked in any lode whatever, either as a miner or as a mill-man. I have examined a great many mines, but never have worked in them.

Q. You have never superintended the working of a mine or mill? I am talking now about a quartz mine or mill.

A. E~o, sir.

Q. You spoke the other evening about the concentration of ore at the mouth of the tunnel, and said that by that means, with proper machinery and abundance of water, the expenses of reducing ores would be much less than by the present mode. I will ask you, Doctor, what machinery you speak of when you say "proper machinery?"

A. I mean the machinery that they have in operation extensively in Europe, especially on the southwest end of England, where they are digging a good deal of ore, and the machinery that they have in Germany, where they work ore that is represented as yielding, by assay, from $7 to $10 a ton at a profit, or even less.

Q. What machinery is necessary to concentrate ores?

A. It should be of different kinds, of an automatic character, so as not to require the use of hands. The saving in the question of labor is one important item.

Q. Just explain to the committee what kind of machinery you mean, and what is the process? You say it is of various kinds; commence with the first, then, if you please.

A. It is hardly worth while, sir, to give all the different modes that are proposed. In Europe they have it systematized in such a manner that the ore passes through a regular series of operations, so that what one part of the machine loses another saves. I have witnessed the process in the zinc mines of the East. One of the machines that they use in Germany is so arranged that a constant stream of water passes in from below upward, keeps the matter agitated, and throws the lighter substances out. A succession of these machines is required for working the precious metals. Then there are turn-tables, by which is maintained a circular movement, to stir the metal particles ; a small amount of water pouring upon them to wash away the unproductive

portions. There are various concave and convex pans of this description. We should use all the improved appliances in connection with this system.

Q. That is just what I want to know. I want to know what those appliances are, because we on the Comstock are anxious to find out how we can save the metal?

A. You will require more than you have at any of your mills to accomplish that purpose at the present time, I suppose. Their works in Europe cover, in some portions, a large extent of surface; they have very gradual descents, that I don't know of any of your mills possessing, that are located in the ravines. You don't get the fall which is necessary, in order to have an automatic process of working-

Q. I believe you say, in your report, (page 12,) that, in all the mines you have visited, you haven't found any means for concentration used that are applicable to the concentration of the ores on the Comstock?

A. I started with the commissioners to investigate the matter of the reduction of zinc, the concentration of the ores. They have their concentrators at a place in New Jersey called Franklin, where these mines exist. We saw the different operations carried on there, not with any degree of nicety, for the simple reason that the ore was scarcely worth the trouble. I am acquainted with the party who put the machines up. He was a mining engineer, and has worked many years in the mines of Germany. He said that for gold and silver he could bring his machines down so as to work them closely. In zinc there is quite a loss of the material by the process; but if they were to go to working it finer, they couldn't work so rapidly.

Q. Well, do you still uphold your report, when it is said in it that you haven't seen any machines at the mines that you visited that are applicable to the concentration of the ores on the Comstock? Is that so, or not?

A. The machinery that we saw is not apblicable, excepting with this improvement. With this improvement,

I believe, it would be applicable to the mines on tlie Corn-stock.

Q. Have you ever seen gold or silver, or gold and silver ores concentrated anywhere ?

A. I have seen them on the Comstock lode. There they are at work all the time concentrating.

Q. By the machinery that you speak of?

A. By the machinery you have there. It is a sort of a concentration.

Q. But it is not the improved machinery of which you speak ?

A. No, sir. I didn't see any of that there.

Q. Your recommendation in the report, Doctor, I believe, is upon the supposition that the ore will be taken from the Comstock through the tunnel and reduced at its mouth?

A. Yes.

Q. Otherwise, it would be of no considerable benefit to the Comstock?

A. At the present time I think the tunnel would be an entire failure, to just take the ore and dump it at the mouth of the tunnel. I believe it would be more difficult, really, to take the ores from the mouth of the tunnel and deliver them at the mills, especially in the canons, carting them up hill, etc., than to hoist through the shafts as at present. That is the conclusion that we arrived at unanimously. But the circumstances are entirely changed when you have your reduction-works at the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. Now, what do you know of the practicability of the, Sutro Tunnel Company, or anybody else, getting control of the waters of the Carson river, so as to erect reduction works at the mouth of the tunnel.

A. I don't know anything about it particularly, except that men generally act from interested motives, and if they can get a very much larger percentage of their ore saved to them, and superior accommodations to anything they now have, I suppose they' would be willing to make an .exchange of their positions on the Carson river for positions

at the mouth of the tunnel. It is merely supposition, reasoning upon the principle laid down in human nature.

Q. Do you know that all the water power on the Carson river above the mouth of the tunnel is now taken up ?

A. "Well, I know that a considerable amount of it is, but how much I cannot say. I don't think the whole, by any means.

Q. Do you know of any considerable fall in the river there sufficient for a water power that is not now occupied?

A. "Well, I cannot say that there is any. It would require a lengthy survey of the whole extent of it.

Q. Is it not cheaper to utilize that power on the river, by a succession of dams, than it would be by building one large dam, and take all the water out at one place?

A. It is much cheaper to build small darns than large ones. That we understand, if that is what you mean.

Q. Is it not much cheaper to use the water power by a succession of dams than to build one immense dam?

A. Well, if you get the same amount of fall, one is as good as the other.

Q. I am not talking about how good they are. I am talking about the cost.

A. It depends upon how many dams you construct. It's an open question. There are no elements of computation.

Q. You think not?

A. I don't see that there are any. A hundred small dams may cost more than one large dam.

Q. You speak of building a dam here that will form a reservoir, and dam up the water. I believe the^e are eleven miles in the distance; that is my recollection.

A. Up to the Mexican mills.

Q. Do you know what property that will overflow and destroy?

A. I don't know of any very valuable property on the route.

Q. Are those mills that yon destroy of any considerable value ?

A. The mills that yon take the water power from are some of them of considerable value.

Q. Don't you take the water power from all the mills on the Carson river?

A. No, sir; you don't disturb the Mexican mill. That is one of the most important.

Q. Did you visit the Eureka mill, that was in process of construction while you were there?

A. No; I think it was just commenced.

Q. Do you know the estimated cost of that mill?

A. No.

Q. You were not told ?

A. No; I was told they were putting up a fine mill.

Q. You don't know its capacity?

A. I don't know its capacity.

Q. Did you visit the Brunswick mills?

A. I think I did. I think we visited the Brunswick, and it Was a very pretty mill, too.

Q. The Brunswick was being reconstructed while you were there. It was the second below the Mexican mill.

A. I think we were taken there, but I won't be positive.

Q. The dam was raised and the capacity of the mill doubled. It was in process of reconstruction while you were there. It was not completed.

A. I think we were there.

Q. It is on the line of the railroad. You run between the mill and the river ?

A. "We probably stopped there. "We had a special train to go in. We stopped, I think, at the Brunswick mill.

Q. Do you know of any other property beside the mills that you destroy? You destroy all the mill power below the Franklin dam; you take all the power away from the other mills?

A. Certainly.

Q. Do you know what other mills are below?

A. No. General Foster took a memorandum of them. I did not.

Q. He says he turned it over to the commission. He suffered it to be in the hands of General Wright. I asked him a good many of these questions, and he made that answer. Do you know anything about the feasibility of forming reservoirs in the mountains, by means of small dams at favorable places, where the water may be preserved until it gets low in the river ?

A. I haven't been in the mountains sufficient to determine that matter, but generally where there are deep ravines and small streams of water these reservoirs can be formed. It's a matter I didn't investigate.

Q. Would you think it probable that the water could be as well preserved in the dry season that way as by building this immense dam that you speak of?

A. Well, if you furnish the power at the mouth of the tunnel you attain the same result that you do by building one big dam. I don't think you would have water enough in the ravines that are there to effect the object.

Q. The ravines form the river, don't they?

A. Yes. You would have to conduct the water in your sluices from a great distance.

Q. Why sluices? Why not let the water run down the channel it runs in now ?

A. Reservoirs may be formed to a limited extent in the way you say, undoubtedly.

Q. Suppose dams were erected at favorable locations in the mountains, and the water retained there in reservoirs until the dry season, wouldn't they furnish water for the running of the present mills in as great abundance as it would be furnished by the reservoirs contemplated in this large dam ?

Q. If you could secure all the water advantages, there is no doubt about that — if you would save it and give no more surface for evaporation.

Q. Do you suppose this dam would save all the water which runs down the Carson during the wet season ?

A. !N"o, sir; I hardly think it would. It would save a vast amount, but not all of it. It becomes a turbulent stream sometimes.

Mr. SESSIONS. What is the fall per mile?

Mr. NEWCOMB. "Well, it varies.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I think, according to the statement of Mr. Day, it is about 250 feet in 15 miles, by the meandering of the river. It isn't that distance (15 miles) in a straight line. I don't now remember myself. I suppose Mr. Day's statement is correct. At any rate, I don't care about disputing it. Do you not know, Doctor, that Empire City would be destroyed by the erection of this dam to the height contemplated?

Mr. E~EWCOMB. It would depend upon the height of the dam.

Q. You have given the height of the dam here.

A. I think it would flood the city, but my remembrance of that place is, that the loss couldn't be very great if the whole of it were submerged. The most of it is the mill and a few houses. »

Q. I don't know how valuable it may be to the Sutro Tunnel Company. I know it is very valuable when a railroad runs through it. I have had some experience in that. There are two or three hundred inhabitants there, are there not?

A. There are 200 or 300, I suppose, working in the mills. %

Q. Living in the town?

A. Living in the town, on the hill-sides, in the valley; yes, I should think there were fully that number.

Q. You stated the other evening that there was no room in the ravines, where these steam mills are located, for the placing of this machinery for concentrating. Do you mean to extend that assertion to the Carson river?

A.' The mills on the Carson?

Q. Yes, sir; with their locations?

A. No, sir; I have stated very particularly that they could use it as far as their fall went, and just in the same

manner. The fall is scarcely sufficient to accomplish the object, as I understand it.

Q. What fall is necessary for the successful working of ore by this process of concentration ?

A. "Well, it would require a hundred acres$ at least, to make a commencement.

Q. A hundred acres?

A. I should judge so, for working the ores of the lode. It would not be a small amount.

Q. Suppose you worked a twentieth part of the ore at one place, how large a fall would you require there? How much fall for concentrating the ores, more or less?

A. Well, all that you, can get would be desirable, with a graduated current. Too rapid a current or fall is not desirable, but a gradual fall is a very important item for working here.

Q. Ain't the fall along the river where the mills are now located just as great as the fall would be if the water were taken out under the mouth of the tunnel?

A. Yes; the united fall would be just as great, I suppose.

Q. What is the formation on each side of the river, at the point where it is proposed to build this dam?

A. I think it is trachyte rock, isn't it,xMr. Sutro?

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, I believe it is.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I won't state it as a positive thing.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I expect that's right; I don't know. You stated the other evening that ore ought to be worked up to within ten per cent, of its assay value ?

A. I think it is possible.

Q. I believe you stated here, Professor, on page 20 of the commissioners' report, that

" In the report of the Savage mine of this year we find that the loss in workings

in the Occidental mill, under the direct control of the Savage company, and includes all savings from slime and tailings secured to the company. In the Customs mills the report shows a less favorable result on the silver product, as follows: Gold loss, 23^; silver loss, 44 per cent."

Where did you get that information from ?

A. From the report of the superintendent, sir.

Q. I just want to show you that report now, and see whether you are not mistaken. This is the report of the Savage company for 1871, page 14. After giving the assay value of the ore by wagon samples, and the average yield of the ore reduced, the per cent, of the assay value, the report says :

" The percentage returned of gold and silver contained in oro is, gold, 75 per cent. ; silver, 61T97 per cent.'

Just look it over. I want your authority for it.

A. The saving of the silver is given at 56 per cent. ; gold, 76 i9^ per cent.

Q. The average is 61TV

A. The proportion of gold is greater than the proportion of silver in the reduction works. That is the percentage. The object of that was simply to show that there was more gold saved than there was of silver in proportion. Then it explains why it is so.

Q. Will you mention, as testimony, then, what months that is for? Just look at that table and mention the months.

A. September, October, November, December, January, and June. That is under the head of " detailed statement of expenses, etc., of the year ending June 30, 1871." Whether that was the entire result, or whether it was the result only of those months, I can't say.

Q. That yield is given at 61^ on an average ? Is that right ?

A. I think that is correct, sir. I would state that the mill is required by contract to return (as I was informed by the miller) nearly 65 per cent, of the assay value of the ore; that is, taking the gold and silver.

Q. I havn't time now to look for the large amount of money paid for reclamation. I propose to read, Doctor, from Mr. King's report, page 241 :

" The following statements, taken from the annual reports of the Savage Mining Company for the years ending July 1, 1868, and July 1, 1869, exhibiting some of the results of milling operations : The tables show the assay

value of tho ore, both by the wagon samples and mill samples ; the yield of the ore and the relation of yield to assay value ; the proportion of gold and silver, both in the ore and m the bullion, and, finally, the total product in bullion of tho quantity treated. The operations of each month are shown in the statements, but the figures of the tables for any single month represent the average result obtained during that month, not from one, but from all mills employed by the company in the reduction of its third-class ore. The second-class ore, treated in the 'last half of 1867, of which the results are also given, was all worked in one mill. It should be observed, concerning the comparatively lower percentage of value obtained from the second-class ore, as shown in the table, that, being richer, it resembles more in character the first-class ore, referred to in the commencement of this chapter, in which the precious metals are combined with zinc, lead, copper, antimony, <fec., rendering the extraction of the gold and silver more difficult, and unfitting it for profitable treatment by the pan process."

Did you notice any of the base metals mentioned here in any of the ores there?

A. I did in some of them. I saw the ore that was delivered to the mill from the Savage company. I didn't see any in place.

Q. Will you state whether it is more expensive to reduce ores with any of the base metals mentioned here than it is free ore?

A. It depends upon the quantity of base metal. If there is a small quantity contained in it, it lessens the value.

Q. Well, suppose you have any considerable quantity of either lead, zinc, or antimony, can you reduce the ore by what is called the pan process without roasting?

A. iTot well.

Q. Do you know whether, in roasting ores containing from J to \ in value of gold, there is much greater loss of the gold than there is in the ordinary pan process ?

A. On that point I cannot give you a satisfactory answer. I don't believe, if they secured all the gold, that there is a loss of any at all by the action of heat.

Q. If they secure it all. But suppose they don't ?

A. Well, if it is done carelessly, they won't. If well done, they ought to secure the whole.

Q. By what means can you save all the gold in any ore after roasting?

A. I see no reason why you shouldn't save it all.

Q. Well, I want to know by what means you can secure all gold in roasting the ore? 17

A. I know of no reason why you should not, with your mercury, succeed in reducing equally well, after roasting, crushed rock.

Q. The loss is not in the amalgamation, but in the roasting.

A. What becomes of it?

Q. That is what I ask you.

A. Is it driven off?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. By heat?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. I don't believe a word of it. Gold has been kept melted for months in small particles without the loss of a single atom, and why there should be any evaporation here is a matter that I cannot account for.

Q. Then, your answer is that you don't believe there is any loss of gold in the roasting process?

A. I don't believe there is any loss from evaporation, or from being forced off by heat. There are a great many different opinions upon that subject.

Q. Well, I know from the reports, that the percentage of saving of gold in the ordinary process is much greater than the saving of the silver. I know that in the process called the Freiberg, roasting in reverbatory furnaces, and also in the perpendicular furnace, the loss in gold is twice and three times what it is in the ordinary pan process.

A. It may be from some imperfection in the reduction, but as for driving off the gold with simple heat, almost every other substance will be driven off and leave that' behind. I will state that you may melt that gold a thousand times without the loss of a particle of it.

Q. Is there no loss at the mints of the United States ?

A. There is a percentage of loss, but not on account of evaporation. It is from handling. There is necessarily some of the gold sticking to the workmen's clothes, so that they take and burn them, and get back the metal in that way.

Q. How does that escape, if not in the melting?

A. It is in the process of handling. Fine particles of gold are worn off.

Q. Isn't gold found in the chimneys, or stacks, of all mints, and sometimes upon the roofs?

A. "Well, it is in proof that that is the fact, but my opinion is that the gold went into a large vineyard, instead of in the chimneys, in stacks, and on the tops of houses.

Q. I read now from page 245 of the same work:

"The impression generally existing that only 65 per cent, of the value is obtained by the pan process, and that 35 per cent, is lost, is erroneous; for the return of 65 per cent, is based on the result in treating the ore in the pan, and collecting the amalgam in the settler ; in some mills the additional product of the agitator is returned with that of the pan and settler, while in other mills this is not done, especially if the required standard of 65 per cent, has been already reached by pan and settle without further addition. Moreover, the return of 65 per cent, includes nothing of what is, or may be, obtained from the subsequent treatment of slimes and tailings; and, furthermore, it is to be considered that the ore, as charged to the account of the mill, contains an average of six or seven per cent, of moisture, for which, in the return, no allowance is made; the sample for assay, by which the return is made, being previously dried, 65 per cent, of the dry sample is really equivalent to 69 or 70 per cent, of the wet rock. This may be illustrated by the following data concerning the operations of the Savage mills during the six months ending December 31, 1867."

A. Let me ask you one question in connection with that: In taking the samples for assa}7, is the moisture retained, or does it go in as an element of computation when the assay is made ?

Q. The ore that is sent to the mill is weighed with the moisture in it.

A. If the samples are taken moist to be assayed, carried to the mills so, and worked in connection therewith, I cannot see any reason for the introduction of an element of that kind.

Q. Very well, I will ask you about that indirectly. This is what Mr. King says :

"During that time 5,830 tons were worked. The average value of this ore was $318,639 80 per mill samples, and $324,206 72 per wagon samples; or $54 51 per ton by mill sample, and $55 61 per. ton by wagon sample. The total of it obtained was $220,785 17, equal to 69^ per cent, by mill samples, and 68^ per cent, by wagon samples."

Mr. SHOBER. What is meant thereby "wagon samples?"

Mr. SUNDERLAND. "When a wagon is ready, a man at the

mines, employed for that purpose, if the ore is fine, has a

trier, such as you try lard with, and runs it in the wagon and takes it out. It is taken as a sample for the assay. The mill samples are always lower than the wagon samples, for the reason that no man taking samples for assay in a mine can select ore that is as low as the lower average. I never saw the man that could do it. I ne%er could.

"This yield was obtained by the ordinary operation of crushing, amalgamating in the pan, and collecting the amalgam in the settler ; this much constituting the process to which all ore is submitted in all mills. It will be observed that the required standard of 65 per cent, was already exceeded by this alone, without including the product of the tailings, or allowing anything for moisture. During the six months to which these figures relate, the product in bullion from the tailings was $12,730 71 ; and if this be added to the yield of the ore originally obtained by the first operation, we have a total product of $233,015 88, equal to 71.87 per cent, instead of 68.1 per cent., by wagon samples; or 72.12 per cent, instead of 69.2 per cent, by mill samples. If, in addition to this, we now allow for 7 per cent, of moisture on the ore, not taken into account in the assay sample to which the foregoing percentages are referred, we have an actual return of 77.27 per cent, by wagon samples, and 78.62 per cent, by mill samples.

"Finally, it is to be observed that the product from the tailings above given is not all that is obtained from that source. The amount here stated comes chiefly from the agitator. The stream of tailings passing from the settler, in which the bulk of amalgam is collected, enters the agitator, where much of the amalgam and quicksilver that has escaped the settler has further opportunity to deposit itself. At intervals of four or five days this vessel is emptied, and the accumulations are reworked in an ordinary pan, yielding $18 or $20 a ton. The yield thus obtained is nearly $2,000 per month, and forms nearly, if not quite, all the product represented in the foregoing statement. After leaving the agitator the stream passes on, the tailings still carrying enough value to make them worth further treatment; for which purpose they are, in fact, sold by the mill to second parties, who do a profitable business in working them again ; but this last product is not included in the figures already given. The yield obtained by this final working of tailings is not definitely known to the writer, but is generally stated at about $5 50 per ton, which would add about ten per cent, more to the results of the process in the mill, as already shown. Some mills claim to have, obtained more than 80 per cent., and even 88 per cent., of the assay value of the ore by the ordinary methods, without including the product of the tailings or allowing anything for moisture."

A. The item of moisture is contained in the working ore as well as the assay ore. Why he should bring it in as an element, I don't understand. It is weighed in the* assay room.

Q. What is weighed ?

A. The amount of ore that is taken for assay. And it contains the same amount of moisture as that in the wagon.

Q. Does a small quantity of ore, Doctor, thrown into a box, as you saw it there, exposed to the. air, retain the

moisture as it does in a loaded wagon, or a large dump, where several hundred tons may be together at the same time?

A. The repeated handling of it in wagons gives it an opportunity to dry.

Q. What do you say as to the accuracy of Mr. King's report here?

A. Part of it I agree with.

Q. With what parts, and with what parts do you disagree ?

A. Some portions of it I don't quite agree with : say where he designates the Cornstock as a gash vein.

Q. I am speaking of that portion which I have read. I don't dispute your proposition that the Comstock is a fissure vein at all ; I never did dispute it. I always believed it.

A. Well, as far as that is concerned, I cannot say. He has gone into a computation there that may be correct or not. I will not pretend but what it is correct.

Q. Do you know where Winfield mill is situated?

A. !N"o ; I don't recollect.

Q. It is north of Virginia, in a .cation ; there are three mills close together. It is called Seven Mile canon. Now^ I will ask you if below that and above the mouth of the canon there are not dams to save all the tailings that have not been previously concentrated ?

A. There are a great many places" where the tailings are caught for the mills. There are mills especially for working the tailings, and in some cases they are quite successful. These tailings are worked over and over again in some cases, and with about the same result each time, or until they get clear down on to Carson valley, and there they get it again. I saw immense bodies of tailings down the valley and near the river, and there they are being worked again. If you take the tailings from that by assay, you get a large amount of ore.

Q. Are not the appliances there now, Doctor, down that canon and about the Carson river, for the saving of tailings,

about as complete as you could make anything at the mouth of the tunnel ?

Q. What escapes now that is of sufficient value to be worked, and where does it escape to ?

A. It is not an uncommon thing during the freshets, you are aware> for the whole amount of the tailings to be swept off into the Carson river. That is one of the elements of loss.

Q. Have you ever seen it ?

A. No. But the inhabitants there told me that that is a fact; those that are working the tailings say the same thing.

Q. Did you see large bodies below the Gould and Curry mill ?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you not informed that those were part of the tailings saved from the Gould and Curry mill immediately after the mill started ?

A. This was a case where the wash alone swept it away, and they have some few positions of that character. But I saw many of the tailings in positions where they would be carried off and lost.

Q. Do you know anything about any tailings mills at the Dayton ?

A. Yes, there is a very extensive mill there — the Bird-sail mill.

Q. What capacity has that mill?

A. I don't know. It is a very large building. I didn't go inside of it.

Q. Did you hear any statement ?

A. I heard a statement that they were saving from tailings $50,000 or $60,000 a month. That was the yield of it. That was the representation made.

Q. Are there any tailings escaping from the reservoir there ? Did you see any ? They have got a large reservoir there, have they not ?

A. They have got immense embankments.

Q. Enough to last a great many years, ain't there? A. It depends upon how rapidly it is worked, of course. Q. Well, I don't know whether they axe working their mill up to its full capacity. It has a capacity of 400 tons a day.

A. I know; it is a very extensive concern. Q. Now, you have expressed an opinion that the owners of mills on the Carson river would be very foolish if, when the tunnel is completed, they don't remove their mills to its mouth ?

A. Is that the expression ? Q. Well, that is what I have got it down. A. I will state it. It would be very greatly to the interests of the owners of the mills upon the Carson river to relinquish their water powers and transfer their mills to the mouth of the tunnel, if they could have, without charge, the use of the water of the Carson as they have now, and at the same time have the additional facilities granted, without the expense of supporting hands. I think that men will be actuated by their interests, and they might be induced to make the change, if it could be made without cost.

Q. Who is going to build and repair this dam ? A. The Sutro tunnel is bound to do it. Q. How are they bound ? Where do you get that from? A. They will be bound by the contract that they would enter into with the mill-owners.

Q. Where is that contract, Doctor? I would like to have you refer me to it?

Q. Show me the bargain, and I will show you the contract.

Q. Your expression the other evening was that the miners would be very foolish, etc. I recollect the expression, for I took it down at the time. You talk about mill-owners getting mill rights and mills down there for nothing. The Sutro Tunnel Company, as I understand you, builds this dam and furnishes water there free of charge — mill rights?

A. Mill sites in exchange for the mill sites they have now.

Q. "Where did yon get the idea from that the Sutro Tunnel Company is going to do anything of that kind?

A. I think the constructing of the dam and the necessity of receiving the titles of those who own the water power.

Q. Didn't you get that idea from Mr. Sntro ?

A. No, sir; I did not. The most I have heard Mr. Sutro say ahout it was, that he could secure it. He didn't say how.

Q. Mr. Sutro, in a pamphlet issued in 1866, estimates the value of the grant of land at the mouth of the tunnel for mill sites and town lots at $3,000,000. Does that look like giving us mill sites there free ?

A. If he gets any equivalent return for it, yes.

Q. What do you call an equivalent ?

A. By their giving up this water power in exchange for the power at the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. Then we abandon all our mills, to commence -with, for nothing ?

A. I didn't state that. Abandoning and transferring are two separate and distinct things.

Q. Then, if it is giving value for value, it isn't getting the water power and mill sites for nothing at the mouth of the tunnel, is it ?

A. Certainly it is.

Q. If you give property that is worth $6,000,000, as he states there, for our mill sites and water power, iit is getting it for nothing?

A. Does that take up the whole of the ground?

Mr: SUTRO. Why, Mr. Sunderland, that means that there is a town to be built at the mouth of the tunnel.

Mr. ISTBWCOMB. It don't matter anything about the town. I stated that if they could have a mill site and a mill upon the place, and could be relieved from the risk of the dam being carried away by freshets, and keeping in repair, they would be acting against their own interests decidedly if

they were not willing to make the transfer. I would make the transfer.

Mr. SUTRO. "Will you allow me to state right here, that within the last sixty days a number of those dams have been carried off by a freshet?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. So far as I am concerned, I don't want to be interrupted. When you express, Doctor, that you, as owner of a mill on the Carson river, would freely accept the proposition to remove that mill to the mouth of the tunnel, does that authorize the opinion, that the owners of the mills upon the Carson would be very foolish not to do it?

Mr. NEWCOMB. Well, if you take the expression 'of "very foolish," I should say yes; that men would be acting very foolish not to accept it, because they would be operating against their own interests. If you want it in that form I will give it so, because I believe it would be for their interests to accept.

Q. Don't you think the owners of mills and mill rights upon the Carson river have a right to determine for themselves, without any advice from anybody else, as to what they will do with their mills and their mill rights?

A. I havn't questioned that right at all, sir.

Q. I read now from page 23 of this pamphlet of Mr. Sutro, published in 1866 :

" The mills, which are at present scattered in a circuit of fifteen miles around the mines, and have cost from $5,000,000 to $6,000,000 in their erection, will all have to be removed to the mouth of the tunnel. At that place they will have to pay nothing for transportation, since the ore, Without rehandling, may be dropped from the cars which bring it out of the tunnel right in front of the stamps. Mills situated at a distance could not reduce ore at the same price, after paying several dollars a ton for transportation; and, consequently, could not compete with those at the mouth of the tunnel. The only recourse left to them is to remove to the tunnel company's land."

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland, that is a statement published to show the value of the rights connected with this tunnel enterprise, in order to induce capital to enter it.

Mr. SONDERLAND. I understand it Part of the value of that land was the sale of mill rights to different mill companies or owners of mills. If Mr. King be correct in

saying that from 80 to 88 per cent, of the assay value of the ores is saved by the different processes used, which I have read, do you think that the loss of the metal now is so great a disgrace to the country as you expressed the other evening?

A. If 88 per cent, is saved, it isn't as great a disgrace as though 35 per cent, is lost.

Q. Do you think that 35 per cent, is lost, Doctor?

A. I don't know about the full amount, because a portion of it is picked up; but I think that the amount saved is not over 5 per cent. It is my opinion that the loss is not over 30 per cent.

Q. Mr. King says in this connection:

" The following table shows some of the comparative results of a number of different mills, all working on Savage ore, at sundry times between July 1, 1867, and March 1, 1868. The statement is furnished from the records in the office of the Savage Mining Company. The careful manner in which Mr. Bonner, the superintendent of this company, and his assistant officials, have collected and preserved, in comprehensive form, the various results of milling and mining experience, is worthy of high praise and extended imitation among others similarly engaged."

I will a^k you if, while you were there, you asked to have access to any of the books of any company, to ascertain what they did save and what they lost?

A. We asked the superintendents and the mill-owners, and they said that the amount of the yield was required to be 65 per cent. They stated that in some cases they received even a larger percentage than that. They were entitled to the excess of the working of the ore, but the general return, as represented by some of the parties, was, that they got the 65 per cent, and no more. The miner made that. With reference to the slime and the tailings, why they were either taken up by the mill and reworked, or by other parties, to a greater or less extent. •

Q. Well, the tailings and the slime, Doctor, belong to the mill, do they not?

A. It is stated so there. But the moment it passes off of the boundary of a mill company, washed down, it ceases to belong to the mill.

Q. Well, it is caught by somebody, isn't it ? Is there not

somebody all along the ravines and canons there catching these tailings?

A. Yes.

^Q. Now, then, if the process that Mr. King describes here yields from 80 to 88 per cent, of the metal in the ores, and the mine or the mining company gets 65 per cent, alone, what difference does it make to the Government, or to any man who is not a stockholder in the mining company, whether the mine gets it or the mill?

A. It makes no difference to the Government, that I a«n aware of, if the bullion is obtained.

Q. Does it make any difference to Mr. Sutro or the Sutro Tunnel Company, who don't own any stock in any mine on the Comstock ?

A. I am not so sure about the correctness of your statement. I have reason to think otherwise.

Q. I have no doubt you know from Mr. Sutro. I am not in the confidence of Mr* Sutro at all.

A. I don't know from Mr. Sutro. I don't know that Mr. Sutro owns any stock, but I know that several wealthy men in the company own heavily in mining stock. I don't know that the Sutro company owns stock as a company ; but I know that individuals of the company own large mining stocks.

Q. I believe you stated the other night that the cost of the reduction of ore varied from $11 to $13 on the ton of ore ?

A. It was represented so to us. That included the transportation.

Q. You read this report of the Savage company, I believe, did you not? That is, you had access to it when you were there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I read now from page 9 of the report of the superintendent of the Savage company to the stockholders :

"The average yield of the ore reduced is $21 13 per ton. The average cost of production, which includes labor, materials, and all incidental expenses, is $11 06, and the average cost of reduction is $9 95 per ton; leaving a profit -of 42 cents per ton."

A. I would ask, in connection with that, if they do not have one of their own mills, at which a pretty large portion of their ore is reduced?

Q. Well, I will answer that. I didn't expect to call attention to that. I will answer it by the report of the superintendent :

" A small portion of the ore has been reduced at the company's mills at Washoe. It has been running but six months out of the twelve The Savage mill can be run at some profit during the summer months, but it is questionable whether a profit can be shown for. the whole year, on accouni of the necessity of retaining watchmen and paying insurance on half of the year, while it is idle."

That is the answer. I read now from page 14 :

11 Average cost of reduction, $9 95."

A. "What is the cost of transportation to the Washoe mill?

Q. That includes the transportation always. There is no mill (as you were probably informed while you were there) that don't undertake to reduce ore for so much a ton, including the" transportation. I will venture to say that you didn't hear of anything else.

A. Yes ; but this was not a customs mill. The Washoe mill belongs to that company.

Q. I was aware of that?

A. Whether the transportation is included in that cost of reduction I didn't know.

Q. I will get you to look at that table in this report, and first state the cost of redaction of ore. You will find everywhere, in every report that has been made, (I have got all 70 of them,) that the cost of reduction includes the cost of transportation, from the year 1867 down to the year 1871.

A. Do you want the total cost or the cost of reduction ?

Mr. SUTRO. What page is that on?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Page 14.

Mr. SUTRO. Year 1871?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. NEWCOMB. tn 1867 the report gives here $14 04; 1868, $13 74; 1869, $12 22; 1870, $10 01; 1871, $9 95. That last is the latest report given here.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I simply introduce that to show the gradual reduction of the price of reduction of ores.

Mr. SUTRO. "Won't you read the next table of the cost of production, to see how that runs?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't propose to introduce that. I propose now to read from the 238th page of Mr. King's report :

" This price of working ores daring two or three years past has varied between $13 and $15 per ton, including the cost of hauling the ore from the mine to the mill. Quite lately it has been reduced somewhat, though during 1869 the average was but little, if at all, below $13. Since the beginning of the present year, according to late advices from Virginia City, some of the mills of the district have reduced the price to $9 per ton."

Mr. NEWCOMB. There was no working for $9 that I was aware of when there. The man who was running on Savage ore made the statement, that the amount paid was $11, and that it was the cheapest of any. When carried by railroad they exacted §13.

Q. Did he run any mill that was supplied by railroad?

A. His was supplied by wagon.

Q. I would like to know his name.

Mr. SUTRO. Going to knock his head off?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. No, sir. It ain't true; that is all.

Mr. JTEWCOMB. It's the Occidental mill.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. They charge $11, do they?

A. They charge $11 per ton, taking the ore from the dump of the mine. It costs the mill $1 per ton for cartage.

Q. Does he say how much for reduction at the mill?

A. He says $11, including $1 for carting.

Q. What does he say it costs the mill company to reduce the ore at the mill ?

A. He don't state. He stated the amount of quicksilver to a charge, and the loss of quicksilver, and the cost of quicksilver.

Q. Just state that, won't you, please? What is the loss per ton?

A. He puts in a charge of 200 pounds of quicksilver

with If tons of ore, and the actual loss of the quicksilver is 1J pounds to the ton.

Q. What does the quicksilver cost per pound?

A. 80 cents, delivered.

Q. Could you reduce the ores at the mouth of the tunnel with a less amount of quicksilver?

A. No, I suppose not. I suppose it would take the same amount.

Q. The loss of quicksilver would be the same ?

A. There is a possibility of its being greater, because the more it is moved or worked, the greater the loss by oxidation.

Q. Doctor, the advantages you mentioned the other night of moving Virginia City and Gold Hill, or the inhabitants of those places, to the mouth of the tunnel

A. I haven't proposed any such thing, sir.

Q. Did you not state, in answer to Mr. Sutro, that for the miners to live at the mouth of the tunnel would be of advantage to them on account of the great healthfulness of the place ?

A. Yes; but that is an entirely different proposition, on account of its being convenient to raise vegetables and keep cows.

Q. And the great healthfulness of the locality?

A. Yes; but that doesn't remove Gold Hill and Virginia City.

Q. What would be left of Gold Hill and Virginia City if the mines were not worked through the shafts, and all the miners lived at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. It would take a pretty large population away undoubtedly.

Q. What would there be left there? What business or what object would there be for anybody to remain there?

A. That is for the citizens to decide.

Q. Well, what I wanted to get at specially was as to its being more healthly than it is at Virginia City?

A. The elevated region of Virginia City is very likely to affect the mucous membranes seriously. Some that were affected

with asthma were benefited, on the other hand. The climntc is somewhat different; it is warmer at the mouth of the tunnel. The winds are less there, as I was informed, and as far as I saw. There are less transitions of temperature.

Q. Are not the extremes of heat and colA on the Carson river greater than they are at Virginia City ?

A. There is greater heat; I think not so great cold. At the same time I cannot say; I havn't made a register?

Q. Do you know whether or not it is healthy along the Carson river?

A. They say that Dayton is much more healthy than Virginia City.

Q. Do you know whether there is fever and ague along the river ?

A. I didn't see anything of it while I was there. There may he.

Q. Do you know or not whether, while you were there, the men engaged in repairs upon the Franklin mill were all taken sick, and work had to he suspended according to the sickness there?

A. I didn't hear anything about it.

Q. Were you at the Franklin mill?

A. I don't recollect of hearing any such remarks. I think I was at the Franklin mill.

Q. Is it at or near this Franklin mill where they propose to build this new dam ?

A. It isn't far from the railroad.

Q. No, it is right above Dayton. It's the second mill above the Birdsall. There is the Ophir or Woodworth mill and the Franklin mill.

A. Whose mill is that?

Q. It belongs to the Union Mill Company.

A. I think we were at that, and one that was working for tailings.

Q. Then you know nothing about any sickness there at all?

A. I heard nothing about it while I was there.

Q. I believe you said the miners, so far as you saw them, appeared to be healthy, both at Virginia City and Gold Hill, did you not?

A. They claimed to be healthy. I asked the/rn how they liked it in the mines, and they said they liked it better there than they did above; they preferred working there to working above.

Q. You didn't see any great distress among the miners, did you ?

A. Occasionally.

Q. In and under what conditions did you see any distress among them — a little too much whiskey? They got too much money, I guess, or they wouldn't have drank so much. You found one mine very hot; which was it?

A. The Yellow Jacket was the hottest.

Q. On what level ?

A. I think it was the 1,100-foot level. I am not sure.

Q. That was north of the shaft ?

A. When you get down, except by the compass, you cau hardly tell which way you travel.

Q. Did you go to the end of the tunnel on that level, Doctor?

A. He took us through, I think, very generally, and showed us the mine very kindly, and showed us the hottest place in the mine.

Q. There was nobody at work, was there, in that hottest place ?

A. No; they were at work in the neighborhood. I will mention, in connection with this, that at the headings, where the blowers were playing, it was comparatively comfortable. The atmosphere was comfortable, and they were able to work. Although they were dripping with perspiration, they didn't stop.

Q. That is what I want to get at. Now, it is below that point, where the blowers are in operation, and where nobody is at work, that the extreme heat exists?

A. The drift that we found the hottest point in led off to one side.

Q. There was nobody at work there ?

A. Not while we were there.

Q. If they were at work, wouldn't it be just as easy to turn the pipe in there and discharge the air as at the heading, where the men were at work ?

A. No doubt of that

Q. "Well, that was done while men were at work there. That was where you saw the thermometer at 103° ?

A. I didn't see it so.

Q. I think you mentioned it?

A. No. General Wright stated it, and the superintendent stated it, I think. The highest I registered was 97°.

Q. Was there anybody at work where it was at 97° ?

A. Well, they were passing back and forth there. There was nobody at work.

Q. I understood you to say the other evening that the 1,000-foot level was where the thermometer stood at 103°. The heat would increase at the rate of 1 degree to every 40 feet.

A. No ; I didn't state so. The increase from the 1,000-foot level down will be an increase of 1 degree, I think, in 50 feet, until you get to the 2,000-foot level, when the increase would be very much greater in proportion.

Q. Then for every 40 feet below the 2,000-foot level the heat will increase 1 degree ?

A. Probably as much as that; and yet we cannot determine. They vary in different mines.

Q. Well, ain't there a rule established for the increase of heat in different depths?

A. Observations have established a sort of a rule, that varies in different localities. It ranges from 55 feet to 60 feet in our latitude.

Q. Why should the increase be greater on the Comstock than anywhere else ?

A. You are assuming again. «

Q. You say that in this country it is from 55 to 60 feet descent for every degree ?

A. That is, down to a certain point; and I have explained 18

that, when you get below that point, the ratio of increase is greater. It is so in other countries, and, so far as observation goes, it is so in this. There is the report of the mining engineers of England, that at the depth of 4,000 feet tiae heat would be so increased that we cannot work below it,

Q. I understood you to say the other evening, that at the depth of 2,000 feet the thermometer would stand at 123°?

A. Yes, sir. That is, figuring it at an increase of one degree in 50 feet,

Q. Now, I understand you to say that, with good air, the working capacity of the men will be increased 25 per cent. ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many men did you see working in the Corn-stock in an atmosphere that was either debilitating, unhealthy, or unpleasant ?

A. I saw them in this very mine that I have been speaking of, the Yellow Jacket, stripped, and with the perspiration reeking from their bodies. I don't pretend to say in regard to the healthiness, because the men pronounced themselves healthy.

Q. Do you mean to say that, in the Yellow Jacket, if the air was better, the mining capacity of the men would be increased 25 per cent. ?

A. I don't say that. By the aid of artificial ventilation, it would be increased very much beyond that amount; and it would be still further increased if the ventilation could be increased.

Q. Did you see men working anywhere in the Yellow Jacket where there was not good air?

A. From the position that I occupied, the air was suffocating. The men were not at work at that point.

Q. At any place were the men were at work in the mine?

A. At the headings it was comparatively comfortable.

Q. "Where you saw the men working in the i^ellow

Jacket, was their working capacity 25 per cent, lower than it would have heen upon the surface, or anywhere where the}7 could have had the freshest air?

A. IST^, I think not; but if they go down another

Q. Well, I am talking about what you saw there. Did you see anybody working anywhere on the Comstock, where the heat was so great as to reduce their working capacity 25 per cent. ?

A. I saw men who said the heat was very great, but they could stand it. I inquired of a number of these-men how they liked it, and they said they liked it very well, and passed by it without any further remark.

Q. Did you state the same evening that, where these men were at work, you found it very comfortable for yourselves? N

A. Yes, sir; we got the full benefit of the blowers. It was quite comfortable, especially after being subjected to this intense heat that we met.

Q. Did you take the degree of heat at the headings where the men were at work, and if so, how high did you see the thermometer where the men were actually at work?

A. Well, I don '£ recollect. I think something over 80°.

Q. I think you stated 80° or 85° the other evening.

A. Where they get the full current of air upon them it is very refreshing.

Q. Well, one of the advantages of this tunnel is claimed to be ventilation. Would it improve the ventilation of the Sierra Nevada or Chollar Potosi?

A. They don't need any improvement where they are working at the present time. It would improve the Chol-lar, by forming communication with the lower levels.

Q. Where they are working at present, could the ventilation be increased at all in the Chollar or the Sierra Nevada ?

A. They could build a shed over the Sierra Nevada.

Q. I understood you to state that the blowers would not be sufficient to ventilate the mines below the 2,000 feet. Was that so?

A. That is my opinion.

Q. Why not?

A. Well, you would need compressed air thrown in.

Q. How much more power does it take to send a quantity of air down 2,000 than 1,000 feet? What loss is there in power or in the air?

A. There is considerable loss, but how much I cannot decide. Your patent blowers operate, perhaps, somewhat differently than others, and it would be necessary to make a test of them, in order to determine with accuracy.

Q. Then it is a mere matter of opinion with you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you ever see blowers used anywhere, except in the Comstock, for ventilation ?

A. Yes, sir, in a good many places.

Q. How deep have you ever seen them used?

A. Oh, some hundreds of feet; but never yet as deep as in the Comstock.-

Q. Didn't they operate as well at the deepest levels on the Comstock as they did on the higher levels?

A. Yes; but, as far as that was concerned, there was no comparison to be made, because on the upper levels they needed none; the rock had been cooled off. If you want my opinion in regard to it altogether, I believe every appliance that can be brought to bear will be required below the 2,000 feet — blowers, circulating mediums, communicating shafts, and everything of that description.

Q. What facility will the construction of the tunnel give that cannot be had now for ventilation ?

A. If you use the same amount, it will be an increase of it. Use the amount of power to ventilate now, this will be additional.

Q. Will it dispense with the present means used for working the mines ?

A. It will not dispense, in my opinion, with mechanical appliances for cooling the mines. It will aid, but that is all. It is an adjunct, but not sufficient of itself.

Q. You know, Doctor, that when a level is worked out, it is timbered up and filled in with refuse ?

A. Yes.

Q, After the whole level is worked out and filled up in that way, is it possible to ventilate it, or would it be any object to ventilate it?

A. No ; there is no farther use for it, after it is closed up. It becomes like the original rock, as far as ventilation is concerned. There is no necessity for it.

Q. It has been claimed here that timbers would stand, I believe, for 30 years in a mine, if it were well ventilated. Is it possible to ventilate a level after it has been filled up in that manner, so as to preserve the timbers ?

A. After it is filled up, no; but your passageways, which are timbered, require ventilation. They have to be preserved.

Q. Why so? Why preserve them after the level is worked out?

A. For communication with the different parts of the mine.

Q. Why do you want communication with different parts of the mine after you have worked it out? Why do you keep any open space after you have worked out every level?

A. In the first place, we are not aware that every level has been worked out. We want it for further prospecting.

Q. Would the tunnel assist in the further prospecting of one of these levels ?

A. Not the upper levels; no.

Q. On the subject of stock-jobbing, I believe you stated the other evening that it had been the practice, when a bonanza of ore was found, to gouge it out and put up the stock, and then sell out.

A. Mr. Sutro made a statement, and I, to a limited extent, accepted it.

Q. I first wanted you to explain to the committee what is a bonanza?

A. It is a Spanish word, signifying a body of paying ore.

Q. Then you don't affirm that stock-jobbing has been the practice, Doctor?

A. Oh, I know that there is stock-jobbing continually, and that the parties who are considered as being in the ring have the advantage of all outsiders.

Q. What ring do you speak of ?

A. Well, it is designated in California and in Virginia City as "the mining ring."

Q. Are there not a good many rings spoken of there?

A. I didn't know of a great many.

Q. Ain't there more than one mining ring?

A. I don't know but one, and I don't know that excepting from report.

Q. You stated (I don't tliink I am misstating) that when a bonanza was struck the mines were worked for legitimate purposes, but that when there was no ore in the mines they were worked in San Francisco. What authority have you for saying that, Doctor?

A. It is a self-evident fact. The report of the stock board will be sufficient to establish it.

Q. Do you think that the running of the tunnel would prevent a mine being worked in San Francisco?

A. No, sir; unless it thoroughly laid the lode open to view. In that case the value of the stock could be determined, approximately at least, and the buyer and seller would be placed upon terms of equality. They would understand the business transactions, instead of making it a gambling speculation, as much of it is now.

Q. Is there any" reason why the branch tunnel, which would be run from the north to the south end of the lode on one level alone, should expose the bodies of ore, and lay them open as you speak of, any more than now?

A. It would expose the lode very much better and at very much less expense.

Q. Explain how it will expose it?

A. Simply by passing along your tunnel, and running in a drift every hundred feet from that tunnel.

Q. Who is going to run these drifts?

A. I suppose the mining companies, if they want to determine the value of their ore.

Q. Suppose they don't want to ?

A. Of course, then, they are not obliged to do it.

Q. Suppose they want to work their mines in San Francisco, as you speak of?

A. Well, they will probably do it.

Q. Then what frauds in San Francisco would this tunnel prevent?

A. Those who have facilities for making investigations are likely to improve them, and it would open the ore-bed at a depth of 2,000 feet through the whole extent of the lode where the transverse tunnel is run.

Q. In all the mines you were in, are not drifts run and cross-cuts made in prospecting and developing ore ?

A. I don't know but there are hundreds of miles of drifts in all.

Q. Ain't everything exposed there to the view of everybody, so far as you know?

A. So far as I was concerned, I had the privilege of all that I could see in visiting the mines.

Q. Did you ask to see anything that you didn't?

A. Well, that's a little bit of a question. We were to have visited one or two mines that we did not. I put the construction upon it that it was an accidental omission on the part of the superintendents. Whether it was intentional I don't know. The Savage and the Hale and $"or-cross are the two to which I refer.

Q. Oaptain Fair told me at one time that he wasn't prepared to receive you, and at another time he told me to tell you that he was prepared, and that he had informed General Foster?

A. I didn't receive the word.

HEARING TUESDAY MORNING, FEBRUARY 27in.

Mr. SUNDERLAND, (continuing cross-examination of Professor Newcomb.) Professor, I believe we closed last night on the subject of stock-jobbing. You had before stated that the construction of the tunnel would tend to consolidate the mines or the mining companies. Ain't the consolidation and control of the Comstock now, mostly by one company, what is most complained of? It is the cry of monopoly, ain't it? Ain't that the great objection to the present mode ?

A. I don't know where the monopoly comes in quite as to the ownership of the mines, because there were a great many different mines ruled by different bodies df trustees or superintendents: they may be influenced possibly by a particular interest.

Q. Would you think it desirable to have the Sutro tunnel and the entire Comstock consolidated into one company, and controlled by a single corporation or a single set of men ?

A. It is my opinion that the Sutro tunnel should be owned by the mining companies, instead of their being separate companies, in order to make the matter perfectly satisfactory. I think the Mexican rule in regard to that was a good one.

Q. What was that, Doctor?

A. It was that, in cases of running tunnels for the general benefit, it is better for the mines to own the tunnel, than for the tunnel to be held by a separate and distinct company.

Q. There was no rule in Mexico authorizing the running of a tunnel by a party who did not own the mines, and then compelling the mines to pay royalty for it?

A. IsTo, it was supposed they would know enough for their own interests to run the tunnel and operate through it.

Q.*The-owners of the mines ?

A. The owners of the mines, I think, would be benefited by owning the tunnel or owning an interest in it.

Q. The owners of the mines in Mexico, then, were permitted to run a tunnel or not, as they chose: there is no rule compelling them to-run a tunnel, is there?

A. No.

Q. Or to pay royalty to any one else that did?

A. JSTone, except that of self-interest. e •

Q. Don't you think in the working of mines, as in any other business, it is best to let the owners of mines work as they think best ?

A. Not where they are working wastefully, I think not; because we are entitled in our country to the greatest results that can be produced from the mining interest. Every man has an interest in it.

Q. Suppose an iron mine in Pennsylvania could not be worked according to your standard, what would you think of Congress interfering to have that mine worked in some other manner.

A. I should think that in the case of an iron mine the circumstances would be entirely different. The right of eminent domain belongs to the Government of the United States, and these mines are presented to them, where they take out their patents, for a nominal sum, and for the purpose of being worked, and worked judiciously. The bullion that is taken out goes into the circulation of the country, enriching the country in proportion to the amount of the product. In that respect it becomes a national affair. With reference to the iron mines, they are particularly individual property, that the Government does not interfere with. They are not sold, as mineral lands are sold, when the precious metals are concerned. The distinction, I think, is a very clear one.

Q. Will you give me the difference between the wealth added to the nation by the extraction of $20,000,000 of bullion, and the extraction of $20,000,000 of iron from an iron mine?

A. There is a distinction that is drawn between them. The results to individuals would be the same. It may be greater in the case of the iron product, because it is a matter of mechanical necessity, whereas the bullion is quite another thing. In another respect the bullion increase would be more important to the general interest, because it forms the basis of value as a circulating medium. In the one case they hold their property on sufferance; in the other case, they own the right entirely, as I understand the mining laws of the country.

Q. You state that the mines, the gold and silver mines, are sold by the Government for a nominal sum?

A. Subject to certain conditions.

Q. "What are those conditions ?

A. Well, one condition that is made in the patents that have been granted, subject to the Sutro tunnel act, is, that whenever they shall strike the lode, the mining companies shall pay a royalty upon every ton of ore extracted and carried out through the tunnel. Another condition in connection with it is, that an exclusive right has been granted to the Sutro Tunnel Company, by the State of Nevada, to run from the plains of the Carson a drainage tunnel — for the purpose of working, or ventilating, or draining, or other purposes — from the Carson Valley to the mines, having the exclusive right for a term of years.

Q. What authority did the State of Nevada have for authorizing that tunnel? What interest in the soil, or what rights to the public lands did the State of Nevada have, that it could give to Mr. Sutro such privileges?

A. The State of Nevada, as the State of New York, or Virginia, has the right of regulating matters of that description, just as they would have of making a mining law for the benefit of the miners.

Q. The State has the power .of regulating some things, but it has not the power to give away that which it has not. The State of Nevada never had any right to the public lands, the title being with the United States the same as the mines, and I ask you what power— —

Mr. SUTRO. I object to that question. There is such a law on the statute-book, authorizing the construction of a tunnel, and giving exclusive right to construct that tunnel. The Doctor is not here as an expert in law.

ML\ KENDALL. Do you see any similarity between the policy of the Government in preventing waste of precious metals and the policy of the Government in preventing waste of timber upon the public lauds?

Mr. XEWCOMB. I think there is a correspondence between the two. I think it is right that this property should not really belong altogether to the companies who have it, to do with it as they please. They have no moral right, although they may have a legal right, to leave the treasures there when the necessities of the Government require their development.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. How many silver mines are there on the western coast?

A. Those that have been entered as silver mines are countless.

Q. Is the number of gold mines nearly as great? A. The gold mining is very extensive as well as the silver mining.

Q. Has the Government,- in any instance, undertaken to regulate the working of any of these mines on the entire coast from the Rocky mountains to the Pacific ocean?

A. I am not aware that there is any law upon the subject, excepting that they have the right to make the purchase of their mineral lands under act of Congress. They have been thrown into the market — the gold mines as well as others. I think there is a law of that description that hns been enacted within a few years past; formerly the idea was founded upon* Senator Benton's statement, that he wished it would be worked out as rapidly as possible, and thrown open to the community — the placer diggings. It was operated upon that principle, and a law was enacted granting the privilege of purchasing mineral lands.

Q. ]^~ow, then, you state, in answer to Mr. Kendall, that you saw no difference between protecting the loss of metal

in a mine and the loss of timber upon the public lands. Is there any law for the protection of timber upon lands after a pre-emptor has gone upon the lands — before he attains the title?

Mr. SUTRO. I object to that, Mr. Sunderland. The Doctor is not here as an expert, to expound the laws of the United States.

Mr. SESSIONS. "Well, he can answer and go right along.

Mr. JSTEWCOMB. I don't know what the law is upon that subject of the pre-emptor going on. I know there is a law made for the protection of timber upon the public lands.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. For timber upon lands belonging to the United States, and unoccupied by individuals, is it not?

A. I should suppose so.

Q. Now, these mines are all under occupancy by somebody, are they hot ? They must be possessed by somebody.

A. Yes, they are.

Q. Well, now, do you see any similarity between the case of a mine that is being worked, and therefore in the possession of somebody, and the case of public lauds not in possession of anybody, and where no one has made application to pre-empt that land ?

A. I 'suppose application could be made by the parties that are trespassing upon the public lands, precisely in .the way that I have mentioned in the Crown Point. Since I was there they may have obtained a patent. When I was there they had not done so ; it was the property of the United States. They were just as much trespassers upon the land technically as a man cutting public timbers would be, without the privilege of the Government. That is the view that I take of it, at all events. I advised the superintendent, at tiie time, to get his patent as soon as he could. "Whether he has done so or not I don't know.

Q. I suppose, likely, he thought that he would determine he would take it, did he not?

A. I suppose so ; he had a right to determine that matter

for himself, and to risk the title to his property if he' chose.

Q. Did he tell you why he didn't take it?

A. Oh, he said he did no,t think it was worth while just then.

Q. Didn't he tell you it was because of the condition of the Sutro tunnel project that he did not take out his pat- <ent?

A. I don't recollect that he did. We were not referring to the Sutro tunnel at the time the conversation occurred.

Q. Do you know other companies that have refused to take their patents on that account?

A. I don't know of any besides that. I don't recollect of any others.

Q. I think you said there were some 40 companies now at work on the Comstock?

A. I did not state how many. I don't know the number. I cannot tell without counting them Tip. The number may be 40 or 50, or only 30.

Q. Don't you think it is better to have a number of companies at work on that Comstock than to have the work all in the hands of a single party, or a single corporation, who would then control everything? Don't you think it is better for the people that it should be so?

A. Well, a good deal can be said upon both sides of that question. In the first place, if worked economically, an immense corporation would produce an immense amount of wealth to the individuals of the corporation. If divided into numerous corporations, there would not be that concert of action, that system of reduction, that would result from one management. With numerous companies it would not be so economical; the expenses would be greatly increased over those of a single company, owing to the multiplicity of officers.

Q. Would not the ownership of the entire Comstock create a power which would be dangerous to the welfare of the people of that section of the State, and to the State

itself. Wouldn't it aggregate more than half of the wealth of the State?

A. I should say that you: put the matter a little low in regard to the aggregate. I conceive the wealth of that lode to be the chief wealth of the whole State. That, with the other mining interests, would he about all the wealth there is in Nevada, although there is some little agriculture. 4

Q. Do you think it would be safe to create a corporation with such power in any State?

A. We have such powers created in the East, that wield a great deal of political influence; we have the extension, of railroads, and the tendency to reunite them for the accommodation of the public, but mainly for the benefit of the individuals that run the roads; we have grand trunks extending north 'and south. Take the concentration of the Hew Jersey roads, and the Erie road in its connections, its branches, ahd the same thing holds good. Wherever you go, if men can work more economically for the benefit of the public in general, why it is an advantage to them, although dangerous in the power that they may wield or exert in the community politically.

Q. Well, I understood you to say that you thought the completion of this tunnel would stimulate exploration and prospecting. Do you mean in the Comstock?

A. I mean in the Comstock as well as in the lateral lodes that are running nearly parallel with it.

Q. Do you know of more than one lode which that tunnel would cross before it would get to the Comstock?

A. According to the map on which it is laid down, and the more careful survey that I examined in the connection which is mentioned in the report of Baron Richtofen, there are others on the track. I could trace only two, although three are laid dawn.

Q. It is an easy matter to make a thing on a map, but it is not so easy to find it on the ground?

A. I traced the track of the tunnel in connection with the geological report of the Baron's.

Q. Did you sec more than one lode there?

A. I saw two lodes, as I conceived, distinct from each other. •

Q. You mean on the line of the tunnel?

A. On the line of the tunnel.

Q. Well, now, sir, we come hack to the Comstock. As far as the Comstock is concerned, do you think that inspection and prospecting could be carried on hy any possibility more vigorously than now?

A. I do, most decidedly. There is nothing that has arrived at that degree of perfection that it may not be bettered. On general principles, it is carried on with a great deal of activity at the present time, yet that activity could be redoubled by increasing the force applied.

Q. About how deep is the deepest mining now done in any silver mine?

A. Three thousand feet.

Q. How long has that company, to which you refer, been in getting down three thousand feet?

A. Well, the mine that I refer to especially— the Sampson mine — 'has been hundreds of years.

Mr. SESSIONS. Where is that located?

A. In Germany.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. In the Harz mountain, ain't it?

A. Yes.

Q. They have been hundreds of years getting down 3,000 feet? How long has the Comstock been mined?

A. Some 10 or 11 years.

Q. If the same energy that has been evinced heretofore in working the Comstock should continue, how lo"ng would it take them to get down 3,000 feet ?

A. Probably in the course of 5, 6, or 8 years they might get down to the depth of 3,000 feet.

Q. Is there any instance on record anywhere in the world where the same energy has been displayed in mining as has been displayed on the Comstock, where work has been pushed to such an extent? ' I speak of silver mines.

A. Oh! there has been a vast amount of energy displayed there, probably more than in any other mines in the world. *

Q. What is your observation of the intelligence of the men who are working these mines, the superintendents especially ?

A. Well, I think the superintendents, as a class, are very superior men. I think they are men of energy, and gentlemen in their address. Some of them are quite polished in their manners and extremely hospitable. They are very excellent men, as far as my knowledge of them extends.

Q. Now, what do you say of their adaptability to the business that they are engaged in ?

A. That I cannot answer. They are generally intelligent gentlemen. They have been selected with reference especially to their mining knowledge, and with reference to their general ability for conducting the business. They are business men — mechanics.

Q. Is it riot the habit of superintendents to visit and go through all the parts of the mines that are being worked once every day?

A. Well, that is the case with some; with others it is not.

Q. Do you know whether these men were miners before they were made superintendents?

A. I know some of them were interested in mining previous to their being appointed superintendents, especially in placer mining. I know that is the case with Mr. Requa. With reference to the previous history of these men, I am not acquainted.

Q. Do you know anything about Mr. Eequa's knowledge of milling, whether he is a practical mill-man ?

A. I should think he was. He is a man of very general information with reference to mines and mining and milling, and everything pertaining to those branches.

Q. Do you know whether he knows anything about machinery, such machinery as is used in hoisting works or in mills ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What is the character of these men ? What character do they sustain in the community where they are known?

A. They are considered, in society, as very respectable men.

Q. Have you any reason to doubt the correctness of their reports that you published in connection with your report?

A. I have reason to doubt some of them ; because some of the statements in them are not correct.

Q. What are they ?

A. Those that are given merely as matters of opinion. My opinion does not correspond with theirs.

Q. I refer now to where they profess to state facts. Have you any reason to doubt the facts as stated ?

A. Where they state facts as facts, I should believe them. Where they state them as matters of opinion, in some cases I should not.

Q. Where they state that it has cost so much a foot to sink a shaft or to run a drift, giving the time and cost of such ?

A. I should rely upon it with perfect safety ; but where they state that they can draw up from the depth of 3,000 or 2,500 feet as cheaply as they can draw up from a depth of 500 feet, I don't quite believe it; I don't think it is a possible thing.

Q. I believe you stated you were once interested in mining stocks on the Comstock. What company was that ?

A. It was in the one that Mr. Requa has control of, and several others.

Q. What are they.

A. There's the Overman for one, if you want to put that down ; there's the Overman, and there's the Chollar Potosi.

Q. Did you know anything about how those mines were worked at that time ?

A. Well, I bought merely as an investment. I studied the proceeds that had been paid, the amount that was being

19

monthly distributed, especially with reference to the Chol-lar Potosi, and did it as an investment.

Q. l)o you know what it cost at that time to mill ore, or to reduce ore at the mill ? Do you know what they charge at the mills for the reduction of ores ?

A. No, I don't. I had no personal knowledge of it.

Q. About what year was that?

A. It was about 5 or 6 years ago.

Q. Then that would be covered by this report that I showed you last night? Did you read Mr. Requa's last report ?

Q. Did you notice that in that report he says that the cost of mining and milling in the Chollar has been reduced about $1 50 a ton since the year 1870 — in his last report from the previous year, I mean?

A. It may be so stated; I don't recollect.

Q. Well, don't you know that it might be done, or were you not told, when you were there, by reliable men, that the cost of both mining and milling is constantly being reduced?

A. I know it is reduced from what it was originally, in consequence of the greater cheapness of milling; and the cost of labor was reduced from what it was when miners were paid enormous wages.

Q. You are mistaken about that. Wages are higher now than they ever were before. ,

A. I will refer you to the report of the United States Geologist on mining, in connection with that, where it

"They demanded tjieir $16 a day and got it."

Xow it is $4 a day.

Q. Sixteen dollars a. day?

A. Sixteen dollars a day.

Q. Who makes that report? I should like to know.

A. Well, I happen to know, because I paid that for it.

Q. Paid $16 a day?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. For mining? Where?

A. At Mormon Island.

Q. I am speaking about the Comstock, Doctor?

A. We are speaking of mining generally. Specify what you want.

Q. I will now ask you whether the expense of both mining and milling upon the Comstock lode, since it was first worked, has been reduced every year?

A. I know it has been reduced. Whether it has been year by year I cannot say.

Q. Are you not aware that materials, such as timber, lumber, wood, are delivered now at the mines at a much cheaper rate than they used to be, in consequence of the completion of the road between Virginia City and Carson?

A. I should think that that was undoubted. Have you the report of the Savage mine there?

Q. Yes. In that connection, Doctor, I will just get you to mark there a single sentence in the report of last year:

"A branch track of the Virginia and Truckee railroad is being laid above the mining works, which will be a great convenience in the delivering of timber and wood at the mines, and will save to the Savage company 50 cents per cord on wood, and the same sum per thousand feet on timber."

This is the report of the Savage. I presume that would be correct.

Q. Well, now, did you want to refer to anything else there, Doctor?

A. I want to refer to the net proceeds of the Savage Mining Company for the last }7ear.

Q. Well, the net profit is about $8,000, if that is what you want to get at. I think you will find it in Mr. Holmes's (the secretary) report. I think the aggregate cost will be given in the report.

A. Here it is. The total product of the mine, as given here, is $827,230 46. The costs of reduction of ore and labor and various expenses make an aggregate of $818,719 78; leaving a total profit of $8,510 68. They had a balance on hand the year previous.

• Q. Has not the construction of that railroad had the same tendency to lessen the expense of transportation ?

A. It has lessened transportation, I judge, because the wagoners complain of the railroad, and say it has driven a vast number of teams out of employment.

Q. In looking at the present expenses of milling and mining, it seems that you have taken the cost to the mining company of milling, and not the actual cost of reduction at the mills. Is not that so ?

A. I have taken the cost as given by the superintendents— the cost to the mines.

Q. Weil, don't you think it would have been much better, in order to report upon some better mode of reducing the ores, for you to have ascertained from the mills the actual present cost to reducing ores ?

A. In other words, to have asked the presidents of the companies what their profits were in reducing ores. We did not have quite cheek enough to make that inquiry.

Q. You were not refused any facilities in inspecting books, papers, or anything else that you asked for, were you?

A. No, sir; but I should have considered it a great impertinence to have asked.

Q. Mr. King speaks of having access to the books of the Savage company, upon which he founds his report. I think you said you did not ask to see the books of any company ?

A. Well, we had the books exposed to us, and looked over them ; one or two of the companies did this. We just glanced over them, and we saw they were very handsomely kept.

Q. Everything is kept in detail, is it not?

A. It seemed to be kept in very fine order.

Q. So that, by referring to the books, it is easy to ascertain the cost of sinking a shaft, or running a drift, or the cost of pumping, or the cost of any one thing that is clone about the mines? It is all on the books?8*

A. In the most of cases they kept these matters distinct; in others, according to their reports that I now speak from,' they lump them together. The different items are put

under one head. It is possible they may run a side drift, and the side drift may not enter as a separate account, but generally you are correct in your position.

Q. You speak of the importance of this tunnel in a scientific point of view. Would it not be as important to run to any other mines in the State of Nevada in a scientific point of view ?

A. If the -conditions were similar, and the formations the the same,, it would be. If you can find the same conditions, it would be just as well to run one as another, for the purposes of establishing the principle of the extension of mineral clown to the lowest depths.

Q. I understood you to say that the running of the tunnel would induce capitalists to invest their money in the Comstock, or in .the work of mining or milling, I don't know which '!

A. Where a capitalist is sure of meeting with a return for his investment, he is a good deal more likely to put his money in, than when it is a risky operation.

Q. Well, don'.t you think these mines are selling for all they are worth now?

A. I think some of them are selling for their full value, perhaps ; yet that is a matter of conjecture merely. •

Q. Did you ever notice any want of capital there for the purchase of mining stock or the working of the mines, the erection of machinery or the building of mills, on the Comstock? '

A. I could give numerous cases where there has been a want of capital on the Comstock in connection with the mills, and one case where washerwomen arid others were called on to contribute to the putting up of a mill; that mill soon failed, however, from a refusal to furnish it with ore, or to supply it. The mill failed, in consequence of their failure to fulfill the ideas held out that they should be supplied with all the one that the}7 could work. They were compelled to sell the property at a very great sacrifice, and . pass it into the hands of the mill company.

Q. That was a failure on the part of the parties who erected the mill: they erected the mill, didn't they?

A. They erected the mill, and were for a time supplie I with the necessary, ore.

Q. Couldn't make it pay, could they ?

A. Oh, they made it pay as soon as they got ore.

Q. Well, how did they fail, so long as they made the mill pay a profit?

A. The party that got up the mill was Doctor de Tavel.

Q. Where was that man?

A. He was in Virginia City somewhere ; whereabouts I don't know. I never took the trouble to inquire. I know that the stockholders lost their investment.

Q. He called on the washerwomen for money to build his mill ?

A. Yes, sir ; the washerwomen and all the French residents of Oakland and the surrounding country.

Q. Did he profess to be a scientific man ?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Was he ?

A. I don't say he was.

Q. He professed to be ?

A. Yes.

Q. I suppose so. When you were there last, Doctor, did you notice any improvements going on anywheres — • any mills being built, or any evidence that there was capital there sufficient to carry on the mines ?

A. There is no doubt about there being capital sufficient to work the mines. There was evidence of improvement, in consequence of the strike that had been made in the Crown Point, stimulated again by the occurrence that took place while we were there, of striking a bonanza in the Belcher mine.

Q. Don't you know that for the last ten years, if any mine on the Comstock, or any mining company, whether it has had ore or not, has wanted money, it has always been able to borrow, whenever necessary to prosecute researches?

A. They are levying assessments continually, and I con-elude from that they want money.

Q. "Well, they have always got it, haven't they?

A. Well, they .have, generally.

Q. What benefit would an additional capital, invested in the Comstock, be to its working?

A. Whatever reduced the cost of the reduction of ores and increased the amount of the paying product, or favored the investigating of lower depth, in the cheapest possible manner would be an advantage to the Comstock lode, an advantage to the stockholders, and an advantage to the whole of the United States.

Q. I don't understand that that is an answer to my question ?

A. I think it is.

Q. Will the addition of capital now existing bring about the cheaper reduction of ores, and the cheaper mining and more extensive explorations?

A. I think the greater facility offered at the mouth of the tunnel, from the conformation of the ground and the use of water power there, would decrease the cost of reduction materially.

Q. Well, does additional capital necessarily take the ore to the mouth of the tunnel?

A. Additional capital facilitates it,vbecause it requires capital to construct the tunnel.

Q. Hasn't Mr. Sutro told you that he has now $1,000,- 000 that he procured in Europe for the construction of the tunnel ?

A. !N~o, sir.

Q. Has he told you that he had any money?

A. He told rne that he had obtained capital in Europe, but how much I don't know.

Q. He did not tell you ?

A. I don't know that he did. He didn't say $1,000,000.

Q. Well, what did he say?

A. I understood from other parties that he had raised a half million. I think Mr. Sutro never told me of any

amount that he had raised, only that he had raised money there.

Q. Did he tell you how he had raised it ?

A. I suppose by the sale of stock.

Q. Well, did he tell you ?

A. He did not tell me.

Mr. EICB. Well, may it please the committee, I don't think that what third parties say is of any consequence in this examination.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I didn't call for what third parties eaid.

Mr. RICE. Well, he said he got it from third parties.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I would -speak, now, about getting information from Mr. George Atwood. Do you know anything about him ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. I know that he is said to be the superintendent of the Eberhardt mine.

Q. Where did you see him ?

A. I saw him in Oakland and in San Francisco.

Q. You don't know that he was superintendent of the Eberhardt, do you?

A. I repeated what I was told about it.

Q. How long a time did you see him about San- Francisco and Oakland?

A. I was there but a short time myself: I saw him there two or three days. After making all the inquiries I wished in respect to it

Q. He is a scientific man, too, ain't he? Or he professes to be.

A. He professes to be acquainted with mining.

Q. You say that he told you that he was willing to pay §2 50 per ton for ore taken from the 200-foot level of the Crown Point, taking fifty tons a day for five years?

A. He would take it out at his own expense; he would be willing to pay $2 50 a ton for it, and agree to take out that quantity for that length of time.

Q. He was at one time employed in the Crown Point, was he not?

0

A. Ho was represented to be.

Q. Do you know in what capacity?

A. I do not: I think it was as foreman of a level.

Q. lie also told you that he knew of bodies of ore in the mine that the present superintendent knew nothing about, did he not? •

A. He stated so.

Q. What would you think of the good faith of a man that is employed in a mine, whoyfinds ore and refuses to disclose its whereabouts to the company ?

A. If employed by me, I should consider him as being derelict in his duty, of course.

Q. Well, don't you think it is a good deal worse than that?

A. Well, that is a pretty heavy charge. I should not like to make it any worse, because it might affect many of the superintendents out there. I don't want to make it any stronger.

Q. I don't think, Doctor, it is in very good taste to make these insinuations against those superintendents.

A. No, they don't consider it so. One of the superintendents told me that they were in the habit of taking the low-grade ores, which would not pay the expense of milling, and mixing them with good ores, to furnish the reduction works with material, thus cheating the mines absolutely out of the cost of that reduction.

Q. Who was that superintendent?

A. I didn't name him.

Q. You decline to give his name?

A. The statement was made in the presence of the superintendent of the Crown Point. I don't wish to involve the character of any individual, but to me it looked as though lie was derelict iji his duty.

Q. Would yoiPtake for granted the word of a- man to be true who, at the same time that he told you what he said to be a fact, told you that, while employed by the Crown Point Company, he knew of bodies of ore that would last

five years, and yet refused or declined to inform the company where those bodies of ore were ?

A. J don't know but that he informed the company; I cannot say. The same superintendent is not there now. It may have been known, but would not pay for getting it out at that time.

Q. Do you know what responsibility there is about Mr. Atwood, as to his being able to comply with the contract, such as he proposed to make with the Crown Point Company ?

A. I don't know anything about his circumstances at all.

Q. Do you know anything about his career as a mill-man ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you ever hear anything about his making repeated failures there in running mills?

A. No, sir ; I never heard of him as a mill-man at all.

Q. Well, there are a great many other things that I want to examine the Doctor about, but I have taken up about 50 minutes, and I guess I will close, in order to not detain the committee and the witness here.

Mr. SUTRO. Doctor, I will ask you a few questions. Mr. Stmderland has asked you whether you saw the water in this Sierra Nevada mine, and you said that they were working the surface simply ?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Would there be likely to be any water on the surface ?

A. If there had been, it would have been drained off or evaporated.

Q. Could the surface diggings at the Sierra Nevada mines properly be called a part of the Comstock lode ? Are they not more of the character of placer diggings?

A. Well, we considered it in that light. -They wer<i working from the surface, and working for gold.

Q. You were asked whether the Sierra Nevada mine would not be benefited by the tunnel as they were working now. You answered that it would not. Would not

the Sierra Nevada mine be benefited by that tunnel, if they tvere to penetrate clown in depth ?

A. "Well, that is a question that cannot be answered positively. It might, and it might not. It is possible that you might strike the lode as rich at the depth of 2,000 feet, or you might strike bad rock.

Q. Would not it facilitate their prospecting operations?

A. Not in their working on the surface.

Q. But provided they would connect their shaft by a bore-hole with the drainage tunnel, would it not aid explorations of that mine in depth?

. A. It would aid in exploration if the tunnel ran under it; which I do not contemplate that it ever will.

Q. "Well, there is no telling about that.

A. That is true, we cannot tell; it may or may not.

Q. Why didn't they work in depth in the Chollar mine?

A. They had struck a bonanza upon one of the upper levels, I don't recollect what one; it may have been the 300-foot level or the 500-foot level that they had been working on. By the report of the superintendent, they had been working up a rich bonanza which they had discovered.

Q. Did they not gouge out that ore, so that they might make large dividends and run up the stock?

A. I don't know. It was the opinion of Mr. Kequa that there was no rich ore in the mine at great depths; he held that the mine would be exhausted when the upper levels were worked out. I considered it an entirely mistaken opinion; but still he attempted to demonstrate it from the maps that had been offered.

Q. What is the modus operandi of mining, Doctor, just as it is done there? Do they not go down in their shafts, and, when they open up a new level, then work upwards to the next level above?

A. Yes, it is cheaper to work upwards than downwards.

Q. Do they ever work downwards?

A. Only in shafts.

Q. In order to get down in the mine, do they not put their shafts down, and then go into the mine and work up wards invariably?

A. It is their, rule. They run their drifts, and if they discern a body of ore, they work up by stopes.

Q. Then let the ore drop down?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then carry it to the shaft and hoist it out?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Well, supposing you go in by the tunnel and work upwards, there would be no necessity to keep sinking these shafts and opening up one level at a time?

A. It would be just as easy to work upwards from the tunnel as to work up from these preparatory drifts. It is just as easy to work from the tunnel as from those little drifts.

Q. Doctor, does not the opening up of one level at a time keep the future of the mine entirely in the dark?

SA. What is below is kept entirely in the dark neces sarily ?

Q. Well, does that not give rise to all kinds of slock jobbing operations, this being in the dark and not knowing anything about it — the owners of the stock not knowing what is going to be found, and the managing men in the mine knowing of the discovery of ore first?

A. The best possible answer to that would be that the Crown Point was reported at $2 50 a share ; the stock, in consequence of the discovery that was made of the bonanza, went up to $300 a share, and has gone up to still double that, as I understand. Those who first discovered the bonanza would have had the advantage of operating by telegraphing for the purchase of stock.

Q. Is it not common report, and known to everybody, that these mines are managed and worked not so much for the benefit tof the stockholders as. for the benefit of those rings' who control them?

O

A. Well, it has been so represented. I will not give it as a matter of absolute knowledge that I have myself, bitf

it has been generally understood so, and I have had my vio\vs in regard to it for many years that that was the understanding, v

Q. Isn't it a -notorious fact, known to everybodjr, that these mines are simply worked for stock-jobbing, and in order to bull and bear the market ?

A. No, I think it is for the bullion as well.

Q. Isn't the extraction of the bullion simply a secondary consideration?

A. I should consider it so with very many that are following the business for a livelihood. There are many men that follow as a business these stock-jobbing operations. It makes it a species of gambling. They really care nothing about the results, if they can buy the stock at a low price and get it up.

Q. Do these people hold these stocks for investment, or do they buy from day to day, and have new sets of owners continually coming in ?

A. I know I invested not as a matter of speculation, and !r»st upon it.

Q. Do you know anything about the amount of tjie speculation in stocks in the stock board of San Francisco in the stock of these mines?

A. It is very fluctuating. It varies with the feeling of excitement and the season of the year also.

Q. Does it not amount sometimes to $10,000,000 a month and more?

A. Well, I should judge it might.

Q. Do you consider, Doctor, that this mode of mining — this making a gambling operation of mining — is beneficial to the interests of the Government and to the people at large ?

A. I don't think it is beneficial to the morals of the people.

Q. Does it not have the influence of keeping people who ire at a distance, and have capital — people in the East — from investing in these mines? Are they not afraid that they will get swindled?

A. Well, it is almost proverbial that a man .who is not in the ring, as it is called, who invests his money, is pretty sure to lose it.

Q. Doctor, if you were living in New York, would yok own stock in any of these mines, without being able to watch every movement that is going on there?

A. "Well, I would not want to own stock-at a distance. I would rather my money should be invested at 7 per cent., a great deal, than to have the richest stock in the mines at the present time, as they are now conducted, with a prospect of doubling my money every six months.

Q. Would you want to have an investment in those mines without being near them ?

A. Losses don't trouble me very much ; I have been accustomed to them ; so I sleep pretty well generally.

Q. Doctor, would not it be very desirable for the interests of the Government and the people at large that a legitimate and thorough system of mining should be introduced^ whereby it would be brought down to a regular business, as much so as the manufacture of iron in Pennsylvania?

A. I think it would be of very great advantage to the mining interests of the Government and of the country aJ large to have a perfect system of mining.

Q. Wouldn't it have the tendency to move capital in that ilirection, to these Western States and Territories, and open up the mines and mineral wealth?

A. It would have that tendency.

Q. Now, I will go. back to some questions Mr. Sunclerland put to you. He asked you if there was any water in the Chollar mine where they were working. You said there was none. Why was there no water ; was it near the surface ?

A. Well, it was on the upper levels; if there was any water dripping, it would get into the deep shaft.

Q. They had abandoned that?

A. They had.

Q. Because it was very expensive to work it?

A. The reason Mr. Requa gave for not working it was,

that there was no mineral at the lowilevels; that the mineral was "being exhausted in the mine. The feeling, before this strike was made, was pretty general that the mines were exhausted; that the lode was worked out. That was the general impression previous to the discovery of the bonanzas. I was told that that was the general impression. It renewed their courage when the bonanza was struck at this low level in the Crown Point. It was increased in intensity, and the thing began to change pretty thoroughly, when the adjoining mine, the Belcher, struck a very rich bonanza; and that is still further confirmed by the recent discovery of the Savage mine. Our report was made with the understanding that it is a true fissue vein: from our

O

observations, as carefully made as we were capable of making them, we came to the conclusion that it was a true fissue vein, and that the ore would be found at great depth. You might have to work through a barren field in order to strike it, but as long as you kept within the walls of the country rock, on the one side and the other, there was a possibility of finding rich bodies of ore.

Q. In regard to striking water in depth, Wheeler's Stock Report of January 26, 1872, says :

" The superintendent of the Crown Point, in a letter of the 7th instant, in «peaking of the 1,300-foot level, says: 'On the 1,300-foot level nothing is being done, and nothing will be done, until the water is drained off, which will probably take three weeks." This mine has one of the most powerful pumping works upon the Comstock, and yet eo great a headway was gained by the water, that work was forced to be stopped in a certain portion of the mine."

Do you consider it likely that they will strike those accumulations of water at any point arid at any depth ?

A. "Well, they may occur at any depth where they strike a clay seam.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That report don't say where that water comes from.

Mr. SUTRO. It says they struck it there, and it drowned them out.

Mr. NEWCOMB. It didn't make any difference whether it came from the surface or below. If they get a wet winter,

they will get a large quantity of water ; and if a dry winter, they will get less of it; and in a succession of dry seasons there will be less from the surface. Common sense teaches that,

Q. He says, in the same article:

"Men of ingenuity set themselves to thinking, and pumps of considerable more force were invented, which, for a time, were successful in obviating this difficulty ; but now shafts have been sunk to such depths, that more powerful machinery must be put in use; and in a lew years another change will have to be made, for the power will then be too light for the depths that will be attained. Vast outlays of money will be required to put this machinery in place, and work in the mines for the time being will likely be stopped. The aqueous fluid seems to have turned out to be the greatest, obstacle that nature has presented to human skill to conquer in the mines of the Comstock."

That is dated January 26, 1872; that is the official report.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. There is no official report at all.

Mr. SUTRO. It is taken as authority by everybody who has anything to do with the mines.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Mr. Wheeler states what he thinks.

Mr. SUTRO. He states furthermore that

"Considerable portions of the expense incurred in mining is caused by the hoisting and draining of water, and he who will devise means whereby this difficulty will be conquered, and which will prove permanent, will not only be a great benefactor, but will meet with such a compensation as will place him in a position far above want."

There is another article here about striking water in th$ Belcher mine. They struck water there, and they had U give up work in the Belcher mine at their greatest depth Now, I want to ask you, Doctor, if the water which is encountered in penetrating the crust of the earth is not all derived from the surface, from rain and the melting of snow ?

A. Yes, sir; necessarily so..

Q. Well, if the water which we find penetrating the crust of the earth is derived from the surface, is there any limit to the depth at which it may be found in large quantities ?

A. The limit is only when you get to the interior or heated portions of the earth; there evaporation will ensue, and the water will be driven off in steam.

Q. Is there any possibility that there will be any less

water struck in going down 4,000 feet than at the beginning?

A. I think it will be lessened in quantity after passing down to a depth, because the pockets that exist above will hold the water. Still they are liable to occur at any depths that you may penetrate.

Q. Supposing, at a depth of 4,000 feet, we have a clay seam, or two clay seams, coming together and forming one of these bowls that have been described here, of immense size, would that not contain water just as much as it would at the 1,000-foot level?

A. It wouldn't be so likely to occur at the very low depth you could reach. These strikes were more frequent in which the early stages of mining than in the lower depths, is an evidence that they decrease in number as you descend.

Q. Mr. Day, in your report, states the cost of working the' Ophir mine. Mr. Deidesheimer, the present superintendent, furnishes some additional figures on that subject, taken from the books ;

&quot;Office Ophir Silver Mining Company,

"VIRGINIA CITY, February 16, 1872. " ADOLPH SUTEO, Esq.,

" Washington, D. 0.

"DEAR SIR: Your telegram, asking for figures in detail and cost of pumping, came duly to hand.

" I have seen Mr. Graves, superintendent of Imperial, an-d am informed by him that the statements you desire cannot be furnished here.

"Accompanying this please find detailed statement of cost of Ophir new works, ' Buck's shaft,' from time of breaking ground, in 1867, to January 1, 1872; also, actual cost of raising water.

" The indirect cost, as noted, we estimate as being the amount that our current expenses would be reduced had we no water to contend with.

41 Trusting that these will meet your requirements, and be ,of service to you, I remain, very truly, yours, PHILIP DEIDESHEIMER,

1 "Superintendent."

This is the statement :

"Cost of Ophir new shaft from August, 1867, to January 1, 1872, including pumps, bobs, air conductors, and all underground work and machinery $415,936 09

Cost of building over shaft ,,...., 7,159 03

Cost of machinery, &c., including labor and material 172,541 35

General expense, &c., salaries and office expense, &c., August, 1867, to January 1, 1872, $38,824 32; one half applied to cost of new works 19,412 16

Total cost of new works, 4 Buck's shaft,' from time of breaking ground, August, 1867, to January 1, 1872 $615,048 63

20

Dimensions of shaft outside of timbers, 18 feet 8 inches, by 7 feet 4 inches. Depth of shaft, January 1, 1872, 1,255 feet. No. of feet of drift and winze to January 1, 1872, 2,900 feet."

Deducting the cost of machinery and other expenses, we find that.it has cost $415,936 09 to construct that shaft. Don't you consider, Professor, that the bulk of the expense of making that Ophir shaft has been caused by the troubles which water gave them ?

A. Well, I am not posted upon it eo as to give a decided answer. I know that that is one of the great expenses attending the sinking of shafts generally.

Q. When you were out there, you made application to visit the Savage mine and the Hale and Norcross, and obstacles were thrown in your way ?

A. I don't know whether they were obstacles thrown in our way; one thing after another occurred to prevent. They represented that the shaft was out of order in one case, and we know that they were pumping very actively to clear the mine of water at the time, and it slipped by from one day to another. The superintendent did not give us the notice that we expected from him, when he would be in readiness, and the whole time passed without our receiving it.

Q. While you were there, did they run the pumps at the Savage mine and the Hale and ISTorcross to their full capacity, day and night, in order to get their water out?

A. Not the whole time. They did a considerable portion of the time. ,e

Q. How powerful is the machinery in the Savage mine, as compared with the machinery in other shafts ? Is it not the most powerful there is on the Comstock lode ?

A. It is considered, I believe, one of the best pumps on the lode.

Q. Do you recollect that there are four large steam-engines on that shaft — one immense steam-engine?

A. They have very powerful machinery generally. That is about all that I recollect about it. We turned the machinery part over to the investigation of General Foster.

Q. Well, all that ponderous machinery was kept going

on both those shafts ? They couldn't work on the lower level on account of the influx of water?

A. I heard the workmen speaking of how nicely they had let the water run from one shaft to another that was a little lower. They were chuckling over it.

Q. Taking the statements of the superintendents of the Ophir company and the Q-ould and Curry company, we find an average of 411 tons of water which they have to hoist out, or pump out, every 24 hours. Taking that as a basis, how much more water would there be encountered on the whole Comstock lode ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to that, until the Doctor says the statement is right.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I don't want to agree to an estimate of it ; because it might form an exceptional case, and it wouldn't be fair.

Mr. SOTRO. Doctor, in your report I find that you have averaged the cost of pumping. You state here, on page 8, that the cost of pumping for the year ending June 30, 1871, as arrived at by the commissioners, by taking the costs as given by the miners so far as reported, and estimating on the others, was $124,674.

Mr. NEWCOMB. We gave also the statement of Captain Day on the subject, who estimated it at $150,000. There had been three dry seasons. Those dry seasons influence the amount of water, and it is only when they strike the pockets that the water disturbs them. A wet season would cause a larger amount of water to penetrate into the mines, and will give them disturbance in the future. I think the computation of the water was made by General Foster.

Q. Taking the quantity of water at the end of these three dry seasons, as given here by those two gentlemen, and supposing that these figures are correct — that there are 411 tons pumped every 24 hours, on an average, between the Ophir mine and the Gould and Curry mine — how much do you think the average would be on all the mines of the Comstock lode — say 30? You have made an estimate here, averaging

it, and it would be perfectly fair to arrive at another average, by taking the 411 tons as a basis.

A. I don't think it would be a fair estimate, but I think that the estimate would be that perhaps ten out of the thirty shafts would yield an equal quantity of water each.

.Q. Well, taking the ten, that would be 4,110 tons for every 24 hours. Now would you consider that one-half that amount for the other 20 shafts would be fair? These figures are well established. Every mining engineer knows how much a miner's inch will discharge every 24 hours.

A. I don't think the other 20 mines would average a half or a quarter.

Q. "Well, say a quarter. That would give us 6,000 tons of water per day to be pumped out of the Comstock. That would be a pretty low estimate. Now, suppose these 6,000 tons were let out through the tunnel, wouldn't it be an immense saving to these mining companies, Doctor ?

A. It would save all the expense of pumping it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Do I understand you to say that there is "rfiat amount of water pumped out?

Mr. StiTROv No; it is merely an estimate. It is an estimate based upon their own figures here, furnished by the superintendents.

Mr. NEWCOMB. I haven't gone into the computation.

Mr. SUNDERLAND., What do you think of the approximate accuracy of that ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. It is very much larger than I supposed.

Mr. SUTRO. According to Mr. Day's figures, they had 18 inches of water in that mine alone in June, 1870, which is equal to 1,700 tons for every 24 hours. Now, do you think that if they had 1,700 tons in one single mine, the estimate of 6,000 for the whole of the lode is exaggerated?

A. Well, it would be more than was produced at the time we were there. I found them working upon dry levels in some .cases, where they didn't have their steam-pumps in operation ; in others, they were throwing out large bodies of water; in others, the drippings required us

to be sheltered by India-rubber coats, to prevent our being deluged.

Q. Doctor, you have been asked the question whether they couldn't use water power at Virginia City. Do you know how much water sells for at Virginia City?

A. I heard, but I have forgotten. For some enormous sum.

Q. Well, it is stated at $1,000 per miner's inch per month. It is a well-known fact that the water company made dividends amounting to $15,000 a month. Do you think, Doctor, at the cost of water here, it would be possible to employ it at all for mining or concentrating operations of any kind ?

A. Well, the mode of operations must necessarily be very crude, for the want of proper water power. The supply is not constant.

Q. You were asked about the Lady Bryan mine. Does that belong to the Comstock lode ?

A. No, sir.

Q. What is the average distance of the mills on the river, by railroad, from the mines to Virginia City ?

A. I believe the most distant one is some 23 miles.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Yes, sir ; 22 miles.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, call it 22. How far would the mills be from the mines if these mills were transferred to the mouth of the tunnel ?

Mr. NEWCOMB. From 4 to 6 miles ; 5 J miles would be the most distant, probably.

Q. Over a level railroad, almost?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were asked whether Empire City would be flooded. If this would be so, do you see any difficulty in erecting a levee there ?

A. I see no difficulty in putting up a levee.

Q. Then it would not flood Empire City at all?

A. Of course not, if the levee were erected.

Q. Mr. Sunderland read extensively from Mr. King's report last night in regard to the loss of working. These

data are based upon the statements made by the mill-owners. Do not the same parties that own the mills control the mines ? ,

A. I understood when I was there, and I heard it from Mr. Sharon himself, that he had the control of some of the mines.

Q. Doesn't he exercise a great influence over many of the mines ?

A. I can't say as to that absolutely. He told me that he had control of the Belcher.

Q. I want to ask you whether the tailings from the ore are riot claimed by the owners of the mills ?

A. The mills, I believe, are entitled to the tailings, unless the mill itself belongs, as in one or two instances, to the mine.

Q. I am speaking about the Union Mill and Mining Company. They get the tailings after they work the ore ?

A. So I was told by the mill operators, the superintendents of the mills.

Q. Well, wouldn't it be for the interest of those mill companies to make as good a show as they could to you?

A. I suppose so.

Q. Supposing, in reducing the ore, they should lose 50 instead of 35 per cent., wouldn't the mining companies make a requisition upon them ?

A. So I understood. They are obliged to return so much per cent.

Q. So the mill company gets all of the 35 per cent. ?

A. They do in the most of cases. I know cases where returns have been made yielding a small per cent, over 65.

Q. Wouldn't these people be very apt, under that system, to keep it up, in order to get all these tailings and accumulate them ? Wouldn't they be very apt to try to continue as they are ?

A. Self-interest would actuate them, no doubt, to retain the present posture of affairs.

Q. Supposing the ore would be milled and concentrated

at the mouth of the tunnel, wouldn't it interfere with their profits made out of these tailings?

A. If they had no tailings they would make no profits.

Q. Is it not very natural in these people to oppose the new project? Wouldn't they oppose any system of mining and milling that would give a large yield to the mines, and by which they would be the losers?

A. It isn't natural for men to wish to change positions when they are making a good deal of money where they are.

•Q. So far as you have been able to judge, what is the actual return to the mines. "What yield do they get from the mills? i

A. Well, I should think from 65 to 65 J per cent.

Q. It has been stated here in the report, that the statements furnished by these superintendents of the mining companies are official. Are they any more official than any of the other statements that were made?

A. They are official with reference to the companies. We made a series of questions to the superintendents, and we applied to Mr. Sutro for his side of the argument as well. We don't hold ourselves responsible at all for the representations made by the superintendents. They expressed their hostility to the tunnel, and we wished them to draw up as strong an argument as they could make against the tunnel.

Q. Now, I want to ask you, Doctor, whether you haven't found a good many of the laboring men over there in favor of the tunnel?

A. I have conversed with them. One man I found very strongly in opposition to it, and I asked him his reasons:

"Why," said he, "I am a teamster, and it would take away my business."

But the general feeling in the community, as far as T. can judge, outside of those directly concerned in the mines, leaving the miners out of the question, was in favor of the tunnel. All the laboring population that we , conversed with, especially the miners, favored the construction of the tunnel.

Q. Have these laboring men invested their money in this tunnel company?

A. Many of them have.

Q. Have you found many of these men who own stock in the tunnel company ?

A. I found quite a number. I didn't make it a special matter of inquiry.

Q. You stated that they have been working in the mines of Europe for hundreds of years, and have not yet reached a greater depth than 3,000 feet. What do you think is the difficulty in getting down?

A. The difficulty has been the water, mainly.

Q. Do you know of a tunnel in the Harz mountains, fourteen miles in length, for drainage ?

A. I know there is one that is reported a^ having been constructed by the government.

Q. Do you know of another tunnel, in Freiberg, that is over eight miles in length?

A. It is so reported.

Q. Do you know of one in Hungary?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Don't they mine' intelligently in Europe?

A. I suppose they do?

Q. Are they not compelled to have systematic mining in order to work their mines at all?

A. Yes, sir; that is well known.

Q. "Well, isn't the fact that they have never got deeper than 3,000 feet evidence of great obstacles in getting down?

A. Yes, sir; I think it is.

Q. Don't you think it would be a proud thing for the United States to penetrate deeper into the bowels of the earth than man has ever done before?

A. Well, as an American, I should certainly feel pride in having my own country go deeper than any other.

Q. Would you not consider that, if we should penetrate into the bowels of the earth, and establish a rational system of mining, by which the low-grade ores of that vast region

may be worked, it would appreciate the value of our mineral domain many fold?

A. It would increase it to a very great extent, I haven't the slightest doubt; but no conception can be formed as to the amount.

Q. Can we give any figures to show what wealth is contained in that western region?

A. No; it is rather my opinion that, if we were to get all the bullion from that one lode, we could pay off our national debt in gold and silver at once. That is only a matter of opinion, of course.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That, you say, is a matter of speculation?

A. That is all.

Q. You don't assert that you know it.

A. No, sir.

HEARING WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28m • Examination of Major General H. G. Wright. Mr. SUTRO. General Wright, you were senior officer or chairman of the Sutro Tunnel Commission? General WRIGHT. I was.

Q. On page 13 of your report you state, in regard to the feasibility of the tunnel :

"Of the practicability of the project there is no doubt. It is a question of cost alone. So many tunnels have been run in this, as well as in other countries, through material much more difficult, that no reasonable grounds exist for questioning the feasibility of "the one we are considering. So far as surface indications are to be relied upon, the rocks to be penetrated do not differ materially from those which are met with in the operations of the Corn-stock, in the shafts, drifts, and winzes which have been opened in those mines in search for the precious metals. While it is quite impossible to predict with any degree of certainty exactly what kinds of rock will be met with in the progress of the tunnel, or in what proportions, it is safe to assume that nothing will be encountered which will offer any serious obstacle to the miner. We therefore dismiss this portion of the investigation with the expression of the opinion of the commission in favor of the entire feasibility of the tunnel project, so far as its construction is concerned."

General, you have looked into this question of tunneling, I believe, somewhat carefully. You visited the Hoo-sac tunnel ?

A. I did.

Q. And witnessed the operations of the present appliances for drilling rock?

A. I have.

Q. Do you think that the progress which can be made is much greater than it was in former times, before improved power-drills were invented.

A. I certainly do.

Q. What kind of drills have you seen in operation there ?

A. I have seen what is called the Burleigh drill, operated by compressed air, and the diamond drill, which may be operated also by compressed air or by steam. The first of these may be operated by steam. I would say steam and compressed air for the first, and steam or compressed air for the second.

Q. Which do you think is preferable, generally ?

A. I have believed that ordinarily the Diamond drill is pre/erable. It has not received that amount of actual use which has been given to the other.

Q. Haven't you found in your investigations, General, that the Diamond drill, when it was first used, some years ago, was not applied in the proper manner ; that is to say, that they applied a very strong feed and a slow motion ; while at the present day they have substituted a very rapid motion, so as to make as much as a thousand revolutions per minute, and a very slow feed?

A. There have been several improvements made in it, one of which is to make the feed automatic and dependent upon the pressure. I am so informed, but I have never seen it working.

Q. Then they get a very rapid motion, and a great many revolutions per minute, with a very slow feed ; and at each revolution the diamonds take off an infinitely small portion of the rock?

A. They take off small particles of the rock in the shape of dust.

Q, But with a thousand revolutions per minute they make pretty rapid progress ?

A. Yes.

Q. I have seen those drills worked at the rate of an inch per minute. Is that about your experience ?

A. I have seen them work in hard rock not so fast as that. Taking a hard gneiss rock, I should think an inch in three minutes.

Q. In the hardest kind of rock ?

A. That is a very hard rock.

Q. With the application of diamond drills in this tunnel, considering the kind of rock we have to penetrate, do you think we can make pretty rapid progress ?

A. -You can make very rapid progress, in comparison with what can be done by hand power.

Q. We are making now from three to five feet per day. How much do you think that could be increased by using diamond drills?

A. As far as mere drilling is concerned, I should suppose you could make five or six times that progress.

Q. As far as drilling is concerned ?

A. There are other considerations. There is the blasting, and getting out of the material blasted. The drilling could be proceeded with much faster if you could get rid of the debris.

Q. Under our present mode of running that tunnel, do you think that, instead of from three to five feet per day, we probably would make from 12 to 15 by the use of the diamond drill?

A. If the debris could be cleared out, certainly.

Q. Do you think it could be done?

A. Yes ; I should think so.

Q. It is proposed — in fact we are now sinking four shafts on the tunnel line for the purpose of getting down to the level of the tunnel. We have already erected steam-engines on those four shafts, and we are now about to order very large and heavy machinery to carry down these shafts to different depths.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I would rather have that stated as testimony.

Mr. SUTRO. It don't appear as testimony — what I state, Mr. Sunderland.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The newspaper accounts differ as to your statement about your having put up that machinery?

Mr. SUTRO. Well, as long as you have any doubt about that, I think I can give you some points on the question.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. So far as I have seen, your machinery is on the way there ; but the roads have been very bad.

Mr. SUTRO. I will read a telegram from the superintendent of the works, dated Virginia City, February 27, 1872:

" To ADOLPH SUTRO, Washington, D. C.

" Engines on shafts number one and two running. Number one very wet. Working on number four. Roads very bad. Number two one hundred and ninety feet."

One shaft (number two) is already down 190 feet. That was on the 27th, (yesterday,) and that is mostly by hand labor. 'Now, I want to find a copy of a paper.

^. SHOBER. Is that material ? Mr. SUTRO. Well, I might as well set this right, since it has "been spoken of. It will take but a moment. Here is the Virginia TERRITORIAL ENTERPRISE of Tuesday, January 30, 1872. It states :

" THE SUTEO TUNNEL FOLKS MEAN BUSINESS.— There is great activity along the whole line of the Sutro tunnel. The company certainly mean business. The engines for each of the four shafts are now on the ground and will shortly be set up. The hoi?ting gear, and other machinery for the several shafts, haa also arrived in the city, but all has not yet been hauled to where it is to be set up. The hoisting frames were brought from San Francisco ready made. They are all of Oregon pine. Breed and Crosby's teams are now engaged in hauling to the mouth 01 the tunnel the machinery of a first-class machine shop, which is soon to be set up there. This shop will be run by steam, and will contain lathes, iron planers, and all else requisite. One of the lathes alone weighs over 8,000 pounds. Once the hoisting works at all the shafts, the machine shop and all the other shops in full blast, the country to the eastward of the city will present a lively appearance."

Here is the Gold Hill EVENING NEWS of January 30,

" The preliminary engines and hoisting machinery for the four air-shafts of the Sutro tunnel have arrived, and will shortly be put in working position. The various fixtures, etc., for a first-class machine shop are being brought in, and it is to be complete in every respect, prepared to do any and all work desired in that line by the Sutro Tunnel Company."

In this connection I might as well state, that the amount of money spent by the tunnel company during the month of January, over at the tunnel, independently of anything spent at San Francisco, is $40,000. I was going to ask you, General Wright, whether, with the use of the diamond drills in sinking shafts, much more rapid progress can be made than could be in the old manner of sinking shafts?

Mr. WRIGHT. I have no doubt it can be done much more rapidly.

Q. A new system of sinking shafts has been spoken of by some of the engineers, I think, of the United States army, and I don't know but it has been employed at Hell Gate, New York, or some other place, by which they propose to sink down bore-holes all round the circumference of a shaft to a depth say of 500 feet at a time, then fill up those holes with gand within five feet of the surface, load them with giant powder, and discharge all at once by a

galvanic battery. Have you heard of that operation, General?

A. That has been proposed for running drifts; that is, to bore this series of holes to the greatest depth that it is economical to bore them, (not to the greatest depth to which we might possibly bore them.) If it were 50 feet, it would be 50; if 20, it would be 20.

Q. "What do you think about the feasibility of that plan, General?

A. I don't see why it shouldn't be feasible. I have advised its use myself in the works of Hell Gate.

Q. You advised the Government to use it?

A. The officer in charge of the works.

Q. That is for drifts?

A. For drifts. They are running at this time no vertical shafts at all. It is one great vertical shaft, to a very large extent, from which the different drifts are run out under the water.

Q. Do you see any difficulty in sinking the shafts in the manner I have described ?

A. I see none whatever.

Q. We propose to try experiments upon that plan of sinking. Would you consider it judicious to do so?

A. I certainly should.

Q. Well, if we should succeed in putting our bore-holes down 100 feet at a time, and then fill them up> as I have said, with sand, and then place the giant-powder or nitroglycerine, do you not think we could remove more than in any other manner ?

A. Possibly so; but I think the great advantage would be in setting the boring machine but once for a hole of great depth; that is, instead of boring down to the depth of five feet and then removing the machine until the explosion takes place, you bore it down to five charges, tea charges, twenty charges, and then fill it up with sand, and then remove your machine, and you don't have occasion to replace it again until you have arrived at the bottom of the hole by these successive explosions.

? Q. By putting this drilling machinery, to start with, on

the top, it could be driven by a steam-engine on the surface, could it not?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. Then, on reaching down, it could either be run by compressed air or by steam carried down from the boilers?

A. Undoubtedly. Either power would answer ; the one which is the most economical being the best.

Q. We propose to try both modes. Which do you think would probably be the most advantageous to use — compressed air or steam — in running this machinery in sinking the shaft?

A. In cases where the power has to be carried a considerable distance from the place of its manufacture the compressed air is undoubtedly the best. You may attain a distance, as they have at the Hoosac tunnel, of nearly two miles. It would be utterly impossible to work these machines by steam generated outside the mouth of the tunnel, because, in carrying it in, the steam would condense.

Q. So the advantage would be in the use of compressed air, which loses less of its force in being carried a long distance ?

A. Very much less.

Q. How much did you find the loss to be at the Hoosac tunnel?

A. They called it two pounds in fifty-five or fifty-six, I think. That is about it at all events. That is, it was sent in with a pressure of 56 Ibs., and it was worked at a pressure of 54 two miles in; but that I must say does not necessarily show the loss. Those were the relative pressures at the two ends; but in traversing that distance there is a loss of heat.

Q. Of heat?

A. The compressing of air generates heat, and the air is expanded thereby. As it passes through this line of pipe, to the point where it is applied to the work, is gets cooled down, and as it cools down its tension diminishes; and therefore the statement is not absolutely correct that there

is a loss of only two pounds. They work under only two pounds less pressure than that under which they started.

Q. Then, taking into consideration the cooling off of the air at that distance, there really would be hardly any actual loss of pressure at all? The pressure is not lost in transmitting the air through this long tuhe or conduit; but it is really lost by the loss of its heat?

A. By the loss of heat. The leakage is really very small, and the difference in pressure, at the two ends of this pipe, which is nearly two miles long, is only about two pounds.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Two pounds in fifty-six?

Mr. WRIGHT. I give it as my recollection — somewhere near it — 55, 56, 57.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. What percentage ?

Mr. WRIGHT. That would be a little less than four per cent.

Mr. SUTRO. What is the size of the pipe?

Mr. WRIGHT. I don't recollect. I believe it was an eight-inch pipe.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Professor JSVwcomb said the loss was 15 per cent, to the mile.

Mr. SUTRO. Fo; I don't think he made that statement.

Mr. RICE. He said 15 per cent, for the whole distance.

Mr. SUTRO. I think he must be mistaken.

Mr. WRIGHT. You must be mistaken. I am not mistaken in what they furnished to us. ,.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Professor Newcomb was examined about a good many things, and that is one of them.

Mr. SUTRO. Do you think there is any difficulty in transporting compressed air through a pipe of sufficient size, Bay at least eight inches, for five miles ?

Mr. WRIGHT. ISTone whatever.

Q. Do you think there would be a considerable loss?

A. Well, that depends upon what you call a considerable loss.

Q. Why, an extraordinary loss. Would you lose 20 per cent?

A. I should think not; nothing Ijke it.

Q. Would it not be great economy, then, to use water power in applying compressed air to the working of the shafts, of the tunnel, and also the mines on the Comstock lode?

A. Most undoubtedly; it is the cheapest of all power.

Q. Well, about these shafts?

A. If you could secure the water power, of course.

Q. Could the progress of these shafts under this system that we have just described be made a great deal more rapid than by the ordinary way of working?

A. That has been found to' be the case wherever it has been applied, so far as I know. I see no reason to doubt it at all.

Q. What do you think about the character of the rocks, generally, from the -west wall of the Comstock lode to the mouth of the tunnel ? Do you consider them as a class of rocks very difficult to work?

A. I do not,

Q. How would you consider them, compared, for instance, with the rocks encountered in the Hoosac tunnel?

A. Oh, they are very much easier to work.

Q. Do you know anything about the Mount Cenis tunnel, General? »

A. Very little.

Q. You have read about it?

A. I have read about it.

Q. You have read about it very fully, have you not?

A. Yes.

Q. What do you think about the rocks there 7

A. I have heard they are very hard.

Q. Do you think they are much harder than the rocks we will encounter in making this tunnel?

A. I think they are.

Q. Would you not consider that the rocks which will be encountered in making this tunnel are more favorable for working than the rocks encountered in other great tunnels which have been constructed? I refer now to the Hoosac tunnel and the Mount Cenis tunnel especially. 21

A. If you take the Hoosac tunnel and the Mount Ceu'is tunnel, I have no hesitation in answering the question. There are many large English tunnels that go mostly through clay, no rock at all;. Baron Richtofen -

Mr. SUNDERLAND. There never has been a dispute about the feasibility of this tunnel, I suppose, /don't dispute it.

Mr. SUTRO. But you don't object to having some additional facts brought out ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Ko, I don't object; but I don't dispute your proposition at all.

Mr. SUTRO. In regard to the rock in the tunnel, Baron Bichtofen has stated the following, which I will read:

" The facilities for excavating the tunnel would depend mainly upon the

quality of the rock through which it will pass. It is a remarkably fortunate incident that the route selected by Mr. Sutro not only gives the greatest depth, is the shortest, has the best facilities for working shafts, but promises also, in this respect, to be the most advantageous. The first 6,000 or 7,000 feet will be through trachyte and trachytic breccia, which, in a broad semicircular belt of prominent hills, swing from Dayton, by the Sugarloaf, to Washoe valley. Trachytic breccia may easily be worked by the pick, yet is ordinarily solid and dry enough to require no timbering. An idea of its excellent qualities for tunneling may be formed from the fact that, in Hungary wine-cellars hundreds of feet in length are with preference excavated in this kind of rock. The solid trachyte is an excellent blasting-rock. Its superior qualities have caused its general use in Washoe for building material; it was as such applied in the construction of the solid masonry of the Gould/ and Curry mill. With the use of the drilling machine of Mount Cenis, speedy work will be made in this rock. The next 2,500 feet will, to all probability, exhibit a great variety of rock, s$me of which will be rather hard. The following 10,000 feet to the cutting of the vein will most likely consist of the same material as is traversed by the numerous tunnels which lead at present to the Comstock vein. This rock (trachytic greenstone) would offer some obstacles if it were in an undecomposed state; but from the general nature of its decomposition, which evidently was formed from below by ascending steam and vapors during a time of volcanic action, we believe we are justified in the conclusion, that it will be found for the entire length of 10,000 feet of the same rotten nature as in the shallow tunnels at present in existence, and it may have to be timbered the whole distance."

General, do you indorse generally what the Baron states here?

A. Scarcely.

Q. In what points do you differ with him?

A. I think that the idea expressed by the commission will explain my views more clearly than anything else.

Q. Will you take this statement, and point out where you don't entirely agree to it?

A. If it would suit as well, I would much rather give

my own statement than correct his. I think I could do it much more satisfactorily to myself. •

Q. Would you consider the statement, as given here, correct, in regard to the facility with which these rocks are worked ?

A. All these rocks are worked with great facility, compared with rocks in this section of the country. We have no reason-to think that any other rocks will be found than those of which we have several specimens; but in what proportions they will occur, it is quite impossible to say.

Q. Simple guess-work.

A. That is simple guess-work. That has been already proved by the progress of the tunnel. The surface indications do not show the exact character of the rock that will be found on the line of the tunnel level. You will find a character of rock there of which there are no surface indications. No rocks have been found so far which we had not a right to expect on the line. The general character of the rock is easy of working.

Mr. SUTRO. There are varieties, but still the general characteristics are favorable for tunneling?

A. Yes, very favorable.

Q. It is soft enough to work with a pick where it wants support, and where it requires blasting it will stand up of itself?

A. I don't think where it wants blasting it will always stand up for itself.

Q. Not always; but it will in some instances?

A. Some character of rock will, and some will not.

Q. What is the usual mode of constructing a tunnel? Isn't there generally a drift ahead of the general work?

A. It is done in a variety of ways, all depending entirely upon the judgment of the controller.

Q.'In constructing the Hoosac tunnel, do they not drive a head drift first?

A. They are driving their head drift the whole width of the tunnel.

Q. But not the whole height?

A. !Not the whole height. They take it off from the top afterwards. Many prefer just the reverse proceeding; others prefer running in a drift on the side.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. "Well, the Mount Cenis was near the whole size, was it not ?

A. I think not. It took them some time to -finish it after they got through.

Q. Wasn't there a machine the whole size of the tunnel ?

A. No, sir. It was driven by independent groups of drills.

Q. All fastened in the face of a machine? It was a full-sized machine?

A. No. There were several ; and it was the same in the Hoosac tunnel. There were several pipes led off from the main pipe that brought in the compressed air to these sets of machines and drove the separate ones.

Mr. SUTRO. General, I will exhibit to you noAv some drawings of the Mount Cenis tunnel, published by the Italian government, the official report on the work. This (indicating on draught) shows the header of the work. Here is a cross-section showing a portion of the tunnel. That is a drift. Here it gives the size of the drift* According to this they first made a small tunnel there?

A. Yes, they kept it on a little ahead of the other.

Q. Well, isn't that the usual way of making tunnels, to make a drift first?

A. It generally amounts to that, for they blow out a certain part of it in order to relieve the pressure. A few holes are charged first, even when they run a full head.

Mr. SIIOBER. The object of running a drift is to give a large working face after it is completed?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUTRO. In making the Sutro tunnel, General, would you consider it wise or judicious to stop work on that drift at the present time, in order to widen out the tunnel, or would you not consider it wiser to wait till we make a connection with the first shaft and then widen out ?

A. They might go on together. You make more rapid progress simply by carrying on the heading.

Q. By getting our drift in as rapidly as possible we will make the connection with the first shaft much sooner than we will from the deepest shaft; consequently we will have ample time to widen out these first sections while the connections from the deep shafts are being made. Would it not be economy not to trouble ourselves now about widening out the tunnel, but to wait a connection from the first shaft, and then proceed from the first shaft onward, and then from that time go on and widen out the first section? Would it not be an economy of time?

A. I don't see that it would, neces'sarily. It might be. It would depend entirely upon the rapidity with which you remove the remaining portion, and, what is very important, get that vast amount of debris to the mouth of the tunnel. I shouldn't like to give an opinion.

Q. Would it not hamper our progress by going on blasting now, without a connection with the surface ? Wouldn't it hamper our progress by blasting between the mouth of the tunnel and where the men are at work now, in breaking up the air pipes and interfering with things generally?

A. Unless you had these air-pipes protected it would break them.

Q. Would it be possible to have them protected where you are blasting all along the line ?

A. I should think it would.

Q. Wouldn't it be wiser to proceed with our drift and then widen out the .tunnel ?

A. Possibly it might. I should want to give the matter more consideration than I have in order to answer the question.

Q. What I want to get at is, will we not complete our tunnel quicker by pushing in our drift, or "header," as it is called, as fast as we can ; and, after we make a connection with the first shaft, when we are no longer troubled to supply the men with air, widen out the first section, extending from the mouth of the tunnel to the shaft?

A. The drift should be pushed as rapidly as possible, of course. You cannot get ahead of your drift, that is certain. But by the use of compressed air you get rid of a great deal of that trouble of want of ventilation. One advantage of the use of compressed air is, that at every movement of the machine a certain amount of fresh air is given out.

Q. You don't get at my question, General. I will make it still plainer. In sinking the deepest shaft, it will take the longest time to get that shaft down and make the con. nections from the bottom ?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. Now, the first shaft nearest the mouth of the tunnel is only 500 feet deep, while the deepest shaft is 1,500 feet. After we get the first shaft down and get the connection with the mouth of the tunnel, wouldn't we have a great deal of time to spare between that time and the getting down of the deepest shaft, and making its connection ?

A. There would be some time, undoubtedly.

Q. Well, couldn't that time be employed more profitably in widening out the tunnel than doing it now, and hampering the men in some degree in their work in the drift ?

A. Yes ; to tKe extent of that amount of time that you have to spare, undoubtedly.

Q. Well, would you consider that the difference in getting down 1,500 feet in one instance and only 500 feet in the other would give sufficient time to widen out the first section of the tunnel ?

A. I should think it would.

Q. Cannot you employ almost as many men as you please in widening out ?

A. You can employ just as many men as can work to advantage.

Q. We'll, you can employ them every two or three or four hundred feet. You can put in a gang of men every short distance in widening out ?

A. That certainly might be done.

Q. You hadn't thought of that?

A. I had supposed it could be done at the two ends.

Q. It has been our original plan to proceed in the way I have described, and then widen out the tunnel from the mouth and from the bottom of the first shaft, while we are progressing with our drift beyond.

Mr. SHOBER. What is the distance from the mouth of the tunnel to the bottom of the first shaft?

Mr. SUTRO. It is a mile. In regard to the enlargement of the tunnel, Mr. Carlyle states as follows :

" On tlie basis that the shafts could be sunk at the rate of 4 feet per day, and the preliminary tunnels run at the rate of 5 feet per day in each direction, the following table will show the time it will take to sink the shafts and make their connections with one another, or with the mouth of the tunnel :

7

>-i '

«2

c °"S

>"«

£|g

ll

|ll

•«f 1

iisgii

03

*c c g

0

fc

sc

*

Shaft No.

1

Shaft No.

2

Shaft No

3

Shaft No

"The last column will give the number of days during which the machinery will be used on the different shafts for pumping and hoisting purposes; and the last figures in that column will give the total number of days it will take to finish the whole of the work up to the connection between shaft No. 3 and shaft No. 4, namely, 815 days. The balance of the work on that section will consist of the enlargement of that preliminary tunnel from the connection to the Corastock lode. This can be very quickly done, as a great number of men can be worked on the face; however, the time that it will take will have to be added to 815 days, in order to get the whole time that it will take to put the tunnel through to the Comstock lode, full size and working order. I have had several estimates made by intelligent miners on this portion of the work, and, in their opinion, they think such simple work could be performed at a rate of 40 feet per day. This is an everage, and not the result of any of the estimates simply; so I will use it as a safe estimate. This distance to be traversed will be 4,618 feet"

He is now speaking of the last section.

" which, divided by 40 feet per day, is equal to 116 days nearly for the

whole time; so that 11G, plus 815, is equal to 931 days, which is the time it will take to put the tunnel through to the Comstock lode in a complete state."

He speaks here simply of hand labor. He don't bring machinery into account. If there were a large water power

at the mouth of the tunnel, do you see any obstacle in compressing air for the running of drills in the mines?

A. None at all.

Q. In a distance of four miles from the mouth of the tunnel to the Comstock lode, or say even six miles, do you see none?

A. None.

Q. And you would consider the employment of diamond drills in all these mining operations as greatly advantageous?

A. I certainly should.

Q. Then, by using water power at the mouth of the tunnel, a great deal more rapid progress could be made in the prospecting operations and in the mining operations proper on the Comstock lode?

A. Unquestionably. I advised the superintendents of these mines to examine into the subject.

Q. Do you see any difficulty in carrying in compressed air to the point of intersection of the tunnel with the Comstock lodo, and using it there as a power to raise ore and pump water?

A. None. I would remark, although I do not know whether it is prdper evidence, that the Government, at* Rock Island, where it is establishing its great arsenal, proposes to use compressed air entirely as its power. The air is compressed entirely by water power, and the pipes for this air are to be laid to all the works all over the island.

Q. Don't you think, General, that the day is not far distant when the great water powers of the country and in the mountains will be economized, for the purpose of compressing air to be carried into the cities ?

A. That thing has been proposed. I think it is possible.

Q. I think it will be done. It is one of those problems which will be solved.

A. There is no impossibility in cdnnection with it.

Q. There are millions and millions of horsepower running to waste. Now, General, I want to ask you a few questions about the quantity of water in the Comstock

lode. You state in your report that you had arrived at the cost of pumping on the Comstock by taking the estimates of superintendents over there and averaging them. But, to be more accurate, I will read what you state about it:

" By reference to the statements of the superintendents, appended to this report, it will be seer i that ^the cost of pumping for all the mines did not! probably, exceed $150,000 for the past year, and that in some of them there WaS S?oT^J at u V ThlS 8uLm exceed8 that arrived at by the commission-viz, $124,674-which was obtained by taking the costs as given for the mines, so far as reported, and estimating for the others."

You state here distinctly that you have taken the figures furnished by the superintendents, and have based your calculations upon them ?

A. That calculation of $124,000 is based upon the information received from certain superintendents of what professes to be their actual expenditure for pumping for one year. For the other mines we got as near as we could the relative quantity of water, and by giving a proportional sum as the cost for those mines from which we got no report, we deducted that $124,000 as an approximation.

Q. Do you think, General, or do you know, that there had been some very dry seasons preceding the summer you were over there ?

A. It was stated to us that there had been two or three very dry seasons.

Q. Gen eral Day states, in his report about the water power in Carson river, that the monthly average of the flow in Carson river, with a rate of 4 miles per hour, was 508 ^ square feet; and then he goes on to state for the months of August, September, and October:

ic feet, on

That is during the time you were there last year— ; consequently the flow of water in the river Was one-twentieth only of what it usually was. Hadn't the river gone down to a very low stage when you were there?

A. It had.

Q. So much so that the mills had to stop? A. In part.

Q. Well, didn't you observe that the whole country was parched, and even springs were dried up which were reported to have flowed always?

A. The country certainly had a parched appearance, and I have no reason to doubt that it was much dryer than the average at that particular season of the year. I couldn't give a more definite answer, however.

Q. You would consider that there was a great deal less water at that time than there would be ordinarily?

A. Certainly; less than the average. It was stated to us by the superintendent of the Rocky Point mill, that the day we were there the water had reached the lowest stage of the-year before, and that he didn't anticipate any particular fall below the point which it had reached, during the remainder of the year.

Q. Where does the water come from which you find in going down into the earth ?

A. It comes from the melting of the snows.

Q. And rains?

A. Yes, from what rains they have, but mostly from the melting of snows.

Q. In other words, you find that the water which is found in penetrating the crust of the earth is derived from the surface ?

A. All comes down from the surface.

,Q. Is there any limit to the depth that that water would penetrate ? Would it get any further than where it is converted into steam ?

A. No.

Q. Wouldn't that be a limit?

A. That would be a limit, if it would reach that point.

Q. The water would penetrate down in the crust of the earth to a great depth, and the point at which it would be converted into steam would be the limit?

A. I cannot say that it might not penetrate as far, but I don't believe it does.

Q. Where do you think hot springs come from? Don't

you think they come from that depth where water is eonverted into steam?

A. I haven't any very well-defined opinion on that subject.

Q. Water boils at 212°?

A. Fahrenheit.

Q. In some places it boils at less ?

A. Thrtt depends upon the pressure of the atmosphere,- of course. It will boil at less at Virginia City.

Q. But lower down in the earth it will probably take

A. At the level of the sea it would be 212° ?

Q. But at the depth of three. miles in the earth it would take more degrees to boil water than on the top of the mountain ?

A. I should question it very much.

Q. If you were to go down a mile into the earth it would take 230° or 240 degrees to boil water. If you go on the top of a mountain it will boil at 180°. It depends upon the density of the atmosphere.

A. If the atmosphere continued down to that point it would undoubtedly be as you say.

Q. Well, now, the source of water being melting of snows and rain, would there not be a great deal less water at the end of two or three dry seasons dian there would be after a wet season ?

A. I should certainly suppose so.

Q. How many deep shafts are there in the Comstock lode — very deep ones? Let me commence at one end, the shafts running down over 800 feet. There's the Ophir?

A. Yes.

Q. Next the Virginia Consolidated?

A. That is down about 500 feet. It is going down.

Q. Next is the Gould and Curry ?

A. Down 1,300 or 1,400 feet.

Q. Then there is the Savage ?

A. That's a deep one also.

Q. The Hale and Norcross?

A. Yes, deep.

Q. Then the Chollar Potosi?

A. That is stopped.

Q. It's down 1,200 feet?

A. Yes; it's filled with water.

Q. Then there comes the Bullion?

A. That's a deep shaft.

Q. Next is the Empire and Imperial?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Next is the Yellow Jacket?

A. Deep; yes, sir.

Q. Next is the Grown Point ? These are deep shafts that I am talking about?

A. Yes, the Crown Point and the Kentuck.

Q. Next is the Belcher?

A. There's the Belcher.

Q. And the Overman?

A. Yes, sir. In the Choller Potosi they carried down their shaft until they gave up all idea of going down farther. They are working entirely upon the upper levels. They fancied that the two walls of the fissure came together where they were. They don't propose to go any farther.

Q. "Why don't they, General?

A. I was so informed by the superintendent. He believes that the eastern and western walls of the fissure have come together at that {K>int, and he don't think there is any use of pursuing it farther.

Q. He did believe so; but do you think he believes so now, after this strike at the Savage?

A. I don't know, but it would take a good deal to move him.

Q. Don't you think it would move him to think his neighbor had found pretty rich ore far down ?

A. He is a man that it would take a good deal to move in his opinion.

Q. General, we were shown some figures here a few evenings ago in regard to the quantity of water in the Ophir mine. On page 30, Mr. Day states that in June, 1870, he had 18 inches of water, which came down in May,

1871, to 7 inches ; and he says the flow of water, September 10, 1871, was 5 inches.

A. That is a diminution of 2 inches between May and September 10.

Q. When you were there, General, were they not sinking the Ophir shaft in country rock?

A. They were.

Q. Outside of the vein?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In sinking a shaft, then, and going in to the vein from a drift, do they not cut the great bodies of water in pierce-ing the clay of the vein.

A. They sometimes do, and that is the source of their water.

Q. Well, now, in the Ophir shaft they had extended a drift at the 700-foot level into the vein. He states that in his report. When they cut that drift into the vein and cut through the clay, they tapped an increased body of water, which kept them pumping for some time. Would you consider that 5 inches which he gives here is a fair average of the water in that mine ?

A. I consider that the flow of water on September 10 was 5 inches.

Q. But after they had been pumping for a long time, as he states himself, they had come down from 18 inches to 7. In going' down 1,300 or 1,400 feet and cutting into the vein again, wouldn't you consider it probable that ,they would get another large body of water ?

A. I should consider it very possible.

Q. Wouldn't you consider it very probable ?

A. Well, I don't think I would be justified in saying that. I think it likely enough.

Q. Do you know how many gallons 5 miner's inches of water make ?

A. I don't know; but I can calculate it.

Q. We will assume that this rule is correct, which is put down by the mining engineers, and taken as a basis of their calculations.

A. It is a well-recognized authority. .

Q. I will repeat it. The rule which is given is as follows :

" A miner's inch is a body of water 336 feet long and one inch square, which passes through an orifice one inch square, under a pressure of six inches, measured from the centre, of the orifice, per minute "

or 145,8060 Ibs., or 174,054 United States standard gallons, or 20,333 cubic feet.

A. By multiplying the cubic feet by 7J you will get it very near.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have never seen any miner's measurement on the Comstock.

A. They have what they call the miner's measurement.

Q. I know it; but I have never seen it.

A. All water is sold by the Water company at that.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Day states that these are miner's inches very distinctly. Isn't this the rule ? There are 17,40 gallons per minute. The Imperial gallon is stated .in the books at 8^ Ibs. That 5 inches in the Ophir mine give 87 gallons per minute, or 5,220 gallons per hour, or 125,280 in 24 hours, equal to 944,835 Ibs., equal to 472 ^ tons; 472 tons of water for every 24 hours.

A. That is all a matter of calculation.

Q. Those figures I submit are correct ; 472 tons of water in the Ophir mine two months after you were there, at the very end of these dry seasons.

A. That is September 10.

Q. Yes, September 10. The average of his statement from June, 1870, to June, 1871, gives 1,005 tons of water for every 24 hours in the year. The greatest amount of water which was taken out in June, 1870, 18 inches, is equal to 1,700 tons a day. That's the Ophir mine. In the Gould and Curry mine the water is stated at 3,500 gallons, equal to 350 tons per day. Now, we have two deep shafts here that will give us an average, taking the lowest stage at the end of these dry seasons, at 411 tons for every 24 hours. Now, would you consider that every thousand feet in length of the Comstock lode would give almost a similar average of 411 tons ?

A. I should think that would be beyond the average. Some of the mines are entirely dry. -

Q. Which ones?

A! The Bullion.

Q. That is only one. What others?

A. The Yellow Jacket has very little. The Crown Point.

Q. I beg your pardo'n; doesn't the water from the Yellow Jacket flow into the Crown Point?

A. One is doing the pumping for the other, and for the Keutuck also.

Q. The Crown Point is doing the pumping. They had the deepest shaft when you were there ?

A. Well, perhaps so.

Q. You say the Crown Point don't pump a great deal ?

A. Very little.

Q. 2s"ow, allow me to call your attention to a telegram. You see the evidences of the wetseason are already showing themselves : in January we had a good deal of rain out there. The superintendent of the Crown Point telegraphed on the 7th of January to the San Francisco office:

" On the 1,30.0 level nothing is being done, and nothing will be done until the water is drained off, which will probably take three weeks."

Here is a statement made in the DAILY STOCK REPORT of February 19, 1872, the very latest paper that has arrived here :

' BELCHER MINE.— The north winze is down 25 feet below 1,200-foot level, and they have struck water, and been compelled to suspend working it."

That is in the Belcher mine?

A. Yes.

Q. When you were over there, was there much water in the Savage mine?

A. Yes.

Q. "Were they not drowned out both there and in the Hale and Korcross?

A. They were.

Q. Now, taking all these facts into consideration, and arriving at a fair average in the quantity of water, would

you consider 411 tons too high an estimate for an ordinary year for every thousand feet on the lode?

A. I couldn't give an answer to the question in the shape in which it is put at all, because I do not accept that number of tons. I should require to figure it in order to give an answer.

Q. General, supposing that the 411 tons are correct — the average between the Ophir mine and the Gould and Carry — would you consider that too high an estimate as an average for every thousand feet upon the lode?

.A. As the mines existed when we were there, I should consider it too high an average.

Q. If you were to take the average of wet and dry seasons, would you consider that too high?

A. I cannot take the average of a matter with which I am not acquainted. All I know in reference to the mines, so far as regards their wetness or dryness, is from what I saw of them while we were there and from what has been stated by the superintendents in their reports.

Q. Then, taking the time that you were over there, what would you consider at the time a fair average for every thousand feet oa the Comstock lode, taking it to be correct that the average between the Gould and Curry and the Ophir was 411 tons?

A. I am not prepared to answer the question.

Q. You can't answer that question any more absolutely than you did by taking as a basis the statements of these superintendents and averaging from these?

A. I can, because we got that up at the time.

Q. You say you have estimated for the others?

A. Estimated for the others in the shape of cost.

Q. Now, I want you to estimate, as far as you can, the proportion for every thousand feet of the Comstock lode, taking as a basis the average which I have here given between the Ophir mine and the Gould and Curry mine of 411 tons a day.

A. It would take me some time to make the calculation

before I can answer the question. I would prefer to bring it here to-morrow, but I could do it this evening.

Q. "Well, make a fair average.

A. I shall make no average without a calculation.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Bring it in to-morrow.

Mr. WRIGHT. I will take the cost. That is the only way in which I can arrive at it. I must take the sum of the two amounts that were pumped from these mines, and the cost of pumping in that way.

Mr. SUTRO. In that case you would take for granted as correct what these superintendents stated to you?

Mr. WRIGHT. Most undoubtedly I should.

Q. I don't believe those statements have been fully given to you. I don't believe they'have been given in a manner to enable you to arrive at a correct conclusion. N"ow, I want to get your general opinion as to the quantity of water that will probably be encountered on the whole Comstock lode, taking every thousand feet from one end of the lode to the other, and taking as a basis the two mines here. It is only an indefinite opinion.

A. I can give no indefinite answer. I have no opinion about it at all.

Q. 'Would you consider it more likely that they would have more water at the Gould and Curry mine than at the Chollar Potosi mine at the same depth?

A. I have no reason to suppose so.

Q. Have you any more reason to suppose that they would have any more water there than at the Crown Point?

A. I think they had. That is the answer to the question.

Q. How much more at that time ?

A. The answer is very in definite, but I think three times as much. I don't attach any value to it.

Q. It is simply a matter of opinion. We have the statements of two of these mines — the Crown Point and the Belcher — drowned out by water.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't know where it comes from.

Mr. SUTRO. I have just read a telegram. It is stated by the superintendents.

22

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It may run into the top of the shaft. Mr. SUTRO. No, sir. It says:

"The north winze is down 25 feet below the 1,200-footlevel, and they have struck water, and been compelled to suspend working it."

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have got an account from the Savage, which was drowned out when the General was there, that they had got to carry water 1,400 or 1,500 feet to assist them in blasting.

Mr. SUTRO. How much water did they have in the Savage while you were there, General Wright? Were they drowned out?

Mr. WRIGHT. For a time they were.

Q. You didn't go down ?

A. No, we did not."

Q. They refused to let you go down?

A. No, not absolutely refused.

Q. But they threw obstacles in the way?

A. They were pumping there as hard as they could.

Q. They didn't want to show you the mine ?

A. I don't think that was it. I had no reason, at least, to think so. They had struck one of these pockets, and they were pumping with all their power.

Q. Supposing there were. 22 deep shafts down this lode at every thousand feet, what would be the average?

A. I haven't the information which would enable me to answer the question.

Q. Well, if the Comstock lode is going to be worked, they will have to have a great number of shafts down ?

A. I would say that as a general rule the water decreased from the Ophirmine to the Divide, and increased from the Divide to the Overman. The mines that are near the Divide — the Bullion, for instance — would be absolutely dry.

Q. Well, then, taking that as a basis, wouldn't it be about a fair average to take say 25 per cent, less than what is stated?

A. I couldn't answer that question. I have no data with reference to it whatever. I have nothing on which to found an opinion.

Q. That is very important.

A. That may be; but I cannot answer a question upon which I have no information, and it is too important a question to be simply guessed at. ^

Q. Supposing there were bore-holes let down from these shafts, after the tunnel be finished and connections made, would that water not run off?

A. Certainly.

Q. Taking 472 tons in the Ophir mine as an average for other mines, would it not be an immense saving to the mine-owners to have the water let off below ?

Q. Wouldn't it save all the cost of pumping that water ?

A. It would save just the cost of pumping the water.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. -Less the value of the water when • pumped?

A. Yes, less the value of the water when pumped.

Mr. SUTRO. "Wouldn't it save a7good deal else besides pumping, by avoiding the difficulties of working in water ?

A. Something, probably ; but I saw no material difficulties occasioned by the water in the working of the mines. The water was generally pumped out with great ease by the machinery they had.

Q. Here is a statement by the present superintendent of the Ophir mine at Virginia City. He gives the cost of pumping for the month of January, 1872, at $2,483 26, and then he estimates the indirect cost of the raising of water for the month of January at $3,000.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to that statement being considered as evidence.

Mr. SUTRO. Have you any doubt that it is a statement made by the superintendent of the Ophir mine ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I doubt very much the correctness of that statement.

Mr. SUTRO. It isn't a question of the correctness of it now ; it is a question whether it is a statement of the superintendent of the Ophir company; and if it be so, it is as good as any statement we have had introduced here.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Kot at all.

Mr. SUTRO. Supposing this statement to be correct, General Wright, that it costs $3,000 per month, in addition to the actual cost to the company, in which is included all the cost of pumping, wouldn't that alter your figures very . considerably ?

Mr. WRIGHT.' I cannot say that it would. The total cost for pumping for twelve months was nearly $30,000, or $29,307 04. Now, it is very well known that the amount of water in one month differs from that in another. I don't think there is anything there which would enable me to form any opinion of the annual cost of pumping for the mine. If that is to be taken as an average for each mouth; if the cost as stated there for pumping for the month of January were to obtain for all the months, it certainly would change my opinion.

Q. Wouldn't it change all these figures if, besides the cost of pumping, we take the outside cost, and add that to the cost ?

A. In answer to that, I would say, that I understand this outside cost to be embraced in what is given by the superintendent of the Ophir company.

Q. Well, I will read this whole statement here, in order to get at my idea. He states :

" Cost of pumping for month of January, 1872:

Pitman's wages $170 50

One-half of engineer's wages 311 00

One-half of fireman's wages ». 124 00

Three-quarters of wood-hauler's wages 93 00

Three-quarters amount of wood consumed 1,410 00

One-half of oil and tallow 11 25

Interest on cost of pumping machinery, $36,351, at one per cent,

•per month 363 51

Total 2,483 26

Total cost of water furnished water company 600 00

Leaving net cost for January 1,883 26

The indirect cost of raising water for the month of January is estimated , $3,000."

Mr. SUNDERLAND. What does the indirect cost consist of?

Mr. SUTR.O. He doesn't state. The indirect cost he states is $3,000.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to that

Mr. SUTRO. Well, it don't matter if you do object. Supposing this to be correct,. General, would it not very materially alter your figures on the whole Comstock lode: this cost of $1,883 26, and the indirect expenses of $3,000 in ' addition ?

Mr. WRIGHT. In answer to your question I will state, thai the details given there are essentially the same as those given here. (Appendix to Report.) That $3,000 is certainly not to -be added to the $1,883 26.

Mr. SUTRO. I say that I must understand that that $3,000 is to be added to the statement given here.

Mr. SUXDERLAND. You don't suppose that statement to be correct, General ?

Mr. WRIGHT. He has taken the cost of three-fourths of the wages, and so on down, the same items that are given here. He has deducted from that the value of the water sold, and he gets a certain result, which we have here, as the net cost of raising water for one year, $20,342. Now, he puts on for the month of January $3,000 more, that certainly is not included in this. I don't profess to understand it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. ISTobody else.

Mr. WRIGHT. But, if that be correct, it should be added to the $1,883 26, and it would certainly influence the estimate of cost of pumping on the Comstock lode.

Mr. SUTRO. Do you think, General, that the mines on the Comstock lode are managed entirely in the interest of the stockholders ?

Mr. WRIGHT. I have no certain means of knowing. That was not a part of the investigation with which we were charged.

Q. What do you know, from common report?

A. I would like to ask the committee if that is a fair question. I very much dislike to answer questions of that nature.

Q. It is probably disagreeable to you to answer that question, but at the same time it is important, in view of this investigation, to know whether those mines are managed as some banking institutions would be in the Eastern States, or reliable corporations, for the benefit of the stockholders. I want to understand whether it is so, or whether ' they manage them for the benefit of certain parties who have the control. You can only speak by general report, and I want you to say what you have heard. You know what everybody there is talking about.

A. Well, if that is a question that the committee desire answered, of course I will answer it.

Mr. SESSIONS. The committee has been very liberal with both sides, and allowed about such questions to be asked as the parties in controversy have wished.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have been objecting so long, that I don't propose to object to anything hereafter.

Mr. SESSIONS. Both sides have asked questions of a similar character.

Mr. SUTRO. I would ask, Mr. Chairman, that General Wright be permitted to answer that question from his general knowledge or common report.

Mr. SESSIONS. If he has heard these things by common report, and is disposed .to answer, he can do so.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I am not afraid of any inquiry that can be instituted.

Mr. SUTRO. I will read from the ALTA CALIFORNIA of February 15, and make that my question.

Mr. WRIGHT. I can answer the question if it is desired. I simply want the authority of the committee. It is putting me in a false position, unless I am required by the commit* tee to answer.

Mr. SESSIONS. We don't require it.

Mr. WRIGHT. Or if it is desirable, or anything else, that will take the responsibility off of me of willingly giving what I have heard. I have no objection to answering the question at all, other than I would like to^have the responsibility of it taken from my shoulders.

Mr. SHOBER. I don't understand that 'the committee would demand an answer ; but the investigation thus far has been characterized by a great deal of latitude.

Mr. WRIGHT. If it is in any way desired by the committee, I should answer it without any hesitation.

Mr. SUTRO. I should desire that the question be answered. Questions have been 'answered like it a dozen times already. .

Mr. SUNDERLAND. They have always been propounded by Mr. Sutro.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland has proposed similar questions before.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Never.

Mr. SITTRO. "Well, I would ask, Mr. Chairman, whether there is any objection by the committee?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I don't object.

Mr. SESSIONS. I don't see that there is any objection.

Mr. WRIGHT. I didn't talk with people enough to get the ideas of the majority.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, what is your opinion , of the opinion of the people with whom you talked ?

Mr. SESSIONS. What would be regarded as the public sentiment there, the general conviction of the people?

Mr. WRIGHT. I think the general opinion, so far as I had occasion to ascertain, is, that the mines are not managed exclusively in the interests of the stockholders. I do not give that as my opinion. I have no opinion about it.

Mr. SUTRO. But you heard people talking about it; that is the general opinion. Now, let me read an extract from the daily ALTA CALIFORNIA (one of the leading papers of the Pacific coast) bf February 15, 1872:

" As matters stand at present, there is no safety whatever for the stockholder. He is completely at the mercy of his board of trustees. It has come to be regarded as a rule, that he has no rights whatever which they are bound to respect. Out of the multitude of instances which might be adduced, for the purpose of illustrating this curious and by no means satisfactory condition of things, we will bring forward only one. It is often the case that a board of trustees, and the officers selected" by them, sell out every share of stock which they hold, and enter into a conspiracy to break down the value of the property. The interests of the stockholders are, therefore, in the hands of their most deadly enemies. They circulate falsehoods as to the condition of

the mine; look in every direction but the right one, for developments, and cover up whenever a strike is made. For the. unfortunate stockholder, in such case, there is nothing left but to hold on to his stock and trust to the chapter of accidents to come out right. It has been suggested that the best method of remedying this constantly increasing evil would be, to give the stockholders the power, within certain limits, to eject an unfaithful board of trustees, and substitute at once one that would have their confidence."

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is just what we have done in the State of Nevada. Laws have been in force there for six years.

Mr. SUTRO. Is that about the statement, General Wright, that is usually made over there by the people, or about the general idea which is entertained as to the management of the mines?

Mr. WRIGHT. I have heard statements similar. Personally I know nothing about the matter.

Mr. SESSIONS. Do the laws of your State give the stockholders authority to call a meeting?

Mr. SUTRO. It is proposed by a new law that one-third can call a meeting, and two-thirds can remove the trustees any time.

Mr. WRIGHT. Any or All?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It's in the laws of Nevada. In California, where the most of these companies are incorporated, there is a bill pending which has passed one branch of the legislature and will the other, to accomplish the same thing.

Mr. SUTRO. Now, General Wright, I want to read from the same paper, from the ALTA CALIFORNIA, the financial and commercial report of February 15, 1872. It says:

41 One of the greatest evils in mine management is the almost unlimited power of the superintendent to make or unmake the market value of a mine. This is so well understood, that where there is a disposition to work the market rather than the mine, a collusion between trustees here and a superintendent on the spot causes the profits or expenses of the mine to rise and fall exactly in accordance with the stock account of the operators. This is, of course, far from being always the case, and a considerable proportion of what the public hears of 'rings,' 'jobs/ 'collusions,' and 'conspiracies' are the mere conjectures of badly-informed or spiteful busy bodies. There are gentlemen who own and control companies of perfect integrity and superior business habits — men who, although naturally desirious of acquiring as many clean dollars as possible, will reject a dirty one on any terms. They will not suffer wrong-doing if it is possible to prevent it. Nevertheless, they are themselves sometimes the dupes of the designing superintendent, who can make flattering reports, select ore, make large returns, suppress expenses, force up the price of the stock, and swindle alike the trustees and

the stockholders. On the other hand, with a superintendent of strict integrity, giving the exact condition of the mine understandingly, there would be little room for fraud. The British public have long since run through experience of every possible, fraud, and have devised means of lessening them to a certain extent. Among" these means is to require an entirely correct map of all the works in the mine, shaded so as to show where the ore exists, where it has been taken out, and where the mine is barren. The superintendent is then required to state every day how many men are employed, and shpw upon the map where each gang is at work — whether opening out ore or uselessly employed where he knows there is none. The stockholders can then see how their money is spent. If they see the men employed getting out ore with satisfactory results one day, and then see them cease working that spot and employed in a barren portion of the mine, while the receipts diminish, they understand the trouble and apply a correction. Superintendent Watt, of the Eureka, Grass Valley, has taken a step in the right direction in preparing a map of that mine for inspection of stockholders, but such a map wants to be accompanied by daily reports, indicating upon the map where on the 3,600 feet of the company's mine the ore crops out; where it has been taken out; where there are indications of ore at present, and where the 150 men employed in the mine are at work; if they are following the leads of ore; if every pick and spade is directed to the practical point of getting out ore, or whether two-thirds of the men .are working where there is no reasonable chance of getting ore, to the neglect of those portions where there is value. If ore is got out, how. many of the whole force employed did it; how much was sent to the mill, and how much did it yield ; and let these facts bo certified to by foreman and mill-man each, in his department. The Legislature should then make false statements and malfeasance on the part of those officers punishable as felony. There is no doubt but that the most satisfactory answers could be given, but we wish to point out what should be a rule in all mines for the protection of stockholders. The corporate mining "on this coast involves millions of dollars qf capital held by stockholders. The interest is daily taking larger proportions, and it is high time that some means were adopted to place a mining property, that may have millions of value, above the caprice of an irresponsible superintendent. The great value of ores in some of the mines makes it necessary that the men should be searched each time they come out, to see that no pieces of ore are concealed upon their persons; but a superintendent is put in control, with power to put up or down the value of the whole concern to the extent of millions, in order that he may profit by the stock fluctuations without check. The trustees who assume to manage the property of others are at common law responsible, and may be held liable for any misconduct in office; but they are themselves subject to the irresponsible action of a superintendent. There are well-managed mines, with superintendents of the highest character, and in such cases the results are satisfactory."

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The writer of that didn't get any shares when he wanted them.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, this is one of the best papers in California, and I simply read this to show what is stated at the present time in San Francisco in regard to the management of these mines. RTow, General Wright, I want to ask you whether it is probable, or whether it is human nature, that these superintendents over there, who have immense chances of making money, would tell all the facts

t

that are favorable to an enterprise which would, to some extent, interfere with their operations?

Mr. WRIGHT. I presume it is the duty of the superintendent to report to the trustees or the managers of the company.

Q. I mean, do you think it is human nature, where a man who has got a chance to make a large fortune

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object'to that question. If Mr. Sutro wants to know anything about these trustees on the Comstock, let him ask so.

Mr. SUTRO. I am naming no one. I am asking the general opinion.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, we may understand human nature as well as the General. I object to the question.

Mr. SUTRO. General, is it likely that men who are placed in a position where they are making large fortunes in speculations in stocks and otherwise would be very apt to give testimony which would go against their interests and introduce a new system of mining?

Mr. WRIGHT. Well, I don't think men are generally very apt to give information which isn't to their interest.

Q. That is all about that. Now, I want to read another extract from a paper. These things have all got into the newspapers. They say that " when thieves fall out, the facts come out." They have been keeping these things out of the papers, but now they are getting in.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Are all the newspapers from the Pacific coast to be introduced as evidence ? ^

Mr. SUTRO. !N"o, I am only going to introduce two or three.

Mr. SESSIONS. Are the articles very lengthy?

Mr. SUTRO. No, sir. I will read from the San Francisco CHRONICLE of February 16, 1872 :

" MINING STOCKS. — How THE MILL KING GOT CONTROL OF THE MINES."

(That's the Bank of California.)

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I object to that, if the chairman please. This popular clamor that has been made here the last four

•

or five years against the Bank of California, I think, is beneath the dignity of the committee to consider. A great deal of capital has been made out of it, I know. Now, I don't know that the Bank of California or any of its officers ever stole anything, and I don't know that they ever stole anything belonging to Mr. Sutro. I think they are honorable men ; and I think that this bringing the Bank of California, its agents or officers, in every time Mr. Sutro has a chance, is an outside question wholly, and ought not to be permitted at all. We have heard it every time we have had a meeting.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, I wish to submit, that it is very important that all the facts in connection with the opposition of the Bank of California to this work should be known. It is a notorious fact that the Bank of California, by its agents and by its influence, has been trying to upset a work which has been authorized by act of Congress. They come here to Washington, and Mr. Sunderland, as their agent, comes here to Washington, to oppose any aid from the Government to this work. The Bank of California don't want this work carried out. They want to break it up with us, and get it for themselves. That's the whole secret of it; and I think it is pertinent, or important, in this examination here, which is not only for the purpose of getting at the facts in regard to the construction of that tunnel, but also in regard to the working of these mines and the management of them, that we should arrive at as correct an opinion about the whole subject as we can possibly ; and therefore I would ask that I be permitted to read a statement here from a paper. I am not going back for years, but I take a statement that is not two weeks old, and that concerns the management of the mines at the present moment. I wish to read that statement, and ask General Wright whether he heard anything of that kind when he was over there. It will only be taken for what it is worth. It is not evidence, any further than a newspaper statement. General Wright's answer

will also be simply his opinion as to what he heard during his sojourn in Nevada. /

Mr. SESSIONS. I don't think it is necessary, Mr. Sutro, to spend much time on this. If the Bank of California is throwing up obstacles against this enterprise, it would be well to prove it; but I don't see that it is proper to read the newspapers.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If it is desirable for the committee to hear anything, I shall not object. I withdraw my objection, if the committee choose to hear it.

Mr. SUTRO. I will simply read these two articles. I will agree not to introduce anything else from the newspapers. I look upon it as important.

Mr. SESSIONS. I don't see how it will be material, Mr. Sutro.

Mr. SUTRO. There has been a fight over this matter here. There has been a statement put in here that the Bank of California owns those mining stocks, and I mean to show that it don't. They have been robbing the public, and I want to show, by reading these newspapers, that it is common report out there.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Supposing it is all true, what has it got to do with the tunnel ?

Mr. SUTRO. It's very important. Those men want to keep up this fleecing of the country, and it* isn't for the interests of the people or the Government for this thing to go on.

Mr. SHOBER. It may be well enough to show, if it could be done, by competent evidence, that there is opposition to this tunnel from such a source. But whether the reading of extracts of that character accomplishes the object, I doubt. We have allowed great latitude heretofore, but if Mr. Sunclerland objects, I should certainly sustain the objection.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, I do not. I won't object to anything hereafter.

Mr. SESSIONS. If it is not very long, we will have it read.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, you have allowed very considerable scope on both sides. Mr. Sunderland has read from all kinds of books and papers, and I should think I ought to be allowed to do the same thing. I want to get General Wright's opinion in regard to what is general report out there. I want to read a newspaper article, and base some questions upon it. It is from the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE of February 16, 1872 :

•' MINING STOCKS— How THE " MILL RISG" GOT QONTEOL OF THE MINES — ELECTION OF TRUSTEES BY NON-OWNEES OF STOCK — MINES AND THEIR MISMANAGEMENT.

"Oh, poverty of earth !

That men do deeds that win them evil names, And shun the names, but not the deeds that win them."

Mr. SESSIONS. Well, that's Shakspeare. Mr. SUTRO. Yes; it's a better thing than you thought for.

Mr. SHOBER. We won't object to Shakspeare. Mr. SUTRO —

"The truth and power of the sentiment of the above quotation was never more forcibly illustrated than in thecaste of those persons who have succeeded in acquiring ill-gotten wealth, at the expense of those whose interests were intrusted to their keeping, and upon whose substance they grew sleek and fat. They were quite willing to clutch at that to which they had no right, either legal or equitable, but now, when the moral responsibility of their own deeds is forced upon them, they shrink from their merited castigation, and ask to go unwhipped of justice. They shun the names, but not the deeds that won them.1'

Mr. SHOBER. What ia he speaking of now ?

Mr. SUTRO. He is speaking of the Bank of California.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Confine yourself to facts.

Mr. SUTRO. In my opinion he is speaking of the Bank of California.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Well, I don't believe that is true.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, I will go on. It is a good article. It is well written —

" WHAT is THE REMEDY FOB THE EVIL? — A contemporary thinks that much of the evil complained of in the management of the mines lies at the door of the stockholders, whose carelessness, in not attending annual elections, 'leads in a great measure to the malpractices which are doing so much to destroy confidence in a pursuit which lies at the very foundation, of our prosperity.' This is undoubtedly true to a certain extent, and has done its part in creating the evil; but this carelessness would not have been productive of such disastrous

results if it had not been fostered and encouraged by those who sought to take advantage of it. The great majority of the purchasers of mining stock are those who buy with the hope of a speedy profit, and in anticipation of a rise which will permit of their soon realizing. Very few persons desire to have stock of this kind stand in their own names, because it frequently happened th#t long after they had sold it, simply delivering the certificates, as is customary, they have seen their names advertised for delinquent assessments, and have found their credit injured by their being supposed to own stock which had declined in value, although, perhaps, the decline had taken place since they sold. The persons who desired to gain the control and management of the mines, without owning them, wished to have the stock stand in the names of such individuals as they could direct at the annual election, and very adroit, indeed, were the means resorted to to accomplish the object. Let us suppose, for instance, that parties, such as we have described, had control of a banking establishment, and we may judge, perhaps, how the trick was. done. The first thing such a bank would do, would be to hold out inducements to brokers and persons dealing in stocks to open accounts with them, by affording facilities for the deposit of stock, bought or sold on time by their customers, but establishing a rule in the beginning that all stock so deposited must be transferred to the name of one of their own attache's, 'just' to save trouble, you know.' In that manner many shares of many companies would find their way into the name of some irresponsible person as 1 trustee.' Then occasionally loans would be made on stock, which, of course, was transferred to the same ' trustee.' Persons buying this stock afterward would allow it to stand without transfer, knowing that the 'trustee' would not be attached for debt, that being the only risk run by allowing stock to stand in the name of another person. Another inducement held out to allow the certificates to remain in the ' trustee's ' name was, that upon certificates in that name the dividends upon Chollar, whose office was in this city, would be paid by the agency of the bank in Virginia, while those upon Yellow Jacket, whose office was in Gold Hill, could bo collected here upon presentation of the certificate, while the holders of stock in less favored names were put to the expense and delay of collecting by express. So that when the day of the annual election came around, the majority of all the stock was frequently found to be in the name of the ' trustee,' whose vote was thus enabled to control the result; and, with the mines thus brought within their power, the ring which managed them acted as, has been heretofore described in the CHRONICLE, and grew wealthy from the property of other people. It is not necessary now to explain how the stock deposited, as we have described, was used to depress the market, or how that upon which loans were made was sometimes sold at a high price and replaced when it had declined, owing to those very sales. Just so long as trustees of mines can be thus elected, and just so long as, when elected, they are practically superior to all law, will mining investments fail to obtain or deserve the confidence of the public. An apologist in a morning paper for mining mismanagement lays the blame of 'all the rascality upon the superintendents, who certainly deserve censure in many cases; but when we remember that the trustees possess the power to remove them^at pleasure, it will scarcely be credited that the inferior officer is responsible* for the entire wrong. Perhaps if stockholders were obliged to have stock transferred to their own names, and trustees were made criminally liable by statute for their evil doings, confidence might be measurably restored."

Now, General Wright, I have read this article in order to ask you whether, while you were over there, you heard people make statements of that kind?

Mr. WRIGHT. I have no opinion whatever upon the subject generally.

Q. You .were there investigating this tunnel question. What did you hear as common report ? Did you hear about such statements as are given in this article ?

A. So far as my recollection serves me, not one of them.

Q. Not one of what ?

A. Not one of those statements did I hear.

Q. Did you never hear over there of parties getting the control of the mines by loaning money on stock?

A. I will say in answer to. that, that it was no part of the investigation with which we were charged. As a rule, we didn't converse upon the subject outside of the points laid down.

Q. You heard that the mines were not properly managed over there?

A. I heard, as I said often, in general terms, that they were not always managed in the interests of the stockholders.

Q. You didn't hear the details given here?

A. No, 'sir,

Q. Now, I will read another little extract, and then I will close this subject. I will read the San Francisco CHRON- ICLE, dated Sunday, February 18, 1872:

" STOCK SHARPS.— How THE MILL RING GOT THE MILLS— ASSESSMENTS TO PAY CRUSHING BILLS— THE ADVANTAGE OF BEING ON THE INSIDE.

" ' Let not the buyer rejoice, nor the seller mourn; for wrath is upon all the multitude thereof.' — Ezekiel, vii. 12.

"Many very excellent persons have objected to the publication of newspapers upon Sunday, but perhaps if writers for the press would make it a rule to prefix their articles with a Scriptural quotation, as we have done in this instance, much of the objection alluded to would be avoided, for the careless reader would oftentimes have his thoughts thus directed into a channel be-' fitting the sanctity of the occasion. The text we have chosen is particularly applicable to those who deal in mining stocks, and the readers of the CHRON- ICLE will understand us when we tell them that Wrath is upon such dealer? ; and if they do not believe it, let them wait a little while until the market collapses, and they will acknowledge the correctness of the proposition. For when that time comes, the buyers at the prices of to-day will assuredly not . rejoice, neither will the sellers mourn, ana our text and our warning will be fu'l tilled.

"But we wish to have it distinctly understood that, in warning the people against dealing in mining stocks, we do not mean to say that the mines are not good, nor that muah profit may not be derived from working them, but

only to show that, in the way they have heen and are managed, there is no safety whatever in meddling with or investing money in them. Mining is a business in which, when profitable, the profits are very large ; but in proportion as such is the case are the chances of loss ; as a man or a company may spend much money in opening a mine and get nothing, while his neighbor may almost immediately acquire a fortune. When the Ophirwas first started, the shaft was sunk in pay rock, and there was no assessment. For several years, and until the first deposit found was worked out, and nothing of any consequence had been discovered since, while on the ground immediately adjoining nothing. has ever been found, and yet the adjoining claims at one time sold for as much as Ophir. What we want to make plain is, that with a 'square deal' there is quite as much excitement and risk about mining as is necessary to make it pleasant ; but when you know you are playing against a ' hogging game,' it becomes monotonous."

Mr. ^WRIGHT. What sort of a game is that ? Mr. SUTRO. Hogging game.

"We have endeavored, by showing how badly the Washoe mines have been managed, to convince our readers that it is better to wait until a change can be effected before trusting their money to the vortex. Having already explained how the ' mill ring' managed to control the mines, the next step in our history is to show how they got the mills. Along in 1864 the mills in the neighborhood of the Comstock lode were owned by various parties, some of whom made money, but the most of them did not, owing to the high cost of machinery and supplies and the extravagant manner in which business of all kinds was conducted. About this time the ' ring ' we have described had managed, as has been related, to get the mines under their control, and they were dividing the profits of crushing the ore with some favored mill men. But this was entirely too slow a process to meet their ambitious views, and so they set about organizing title to the mills themselves. A mill man, applying to the ring managers of the mines for ore to crush, would be told that, as not much ore was being taken out, he must be content with little, but meanwhile he could be accommodated with a loan, should he require cash, which loan could be easily repaid out of the profits of future crushing, which he would be sure to get, as, of course, his creditors would feel an interest in his financial welfare. Of course the bait was eagerly swallowed, and. the deluded mill man signed his own death warrant with his first note ; for no sooner was he involved beyond his means to pay, when ' the bank required the money,' and he was forced to give up his property for, in many instances, less than one-fifth of its actual value. Thus, one by one, nearly all the best mills in the country fell into the hands of Ihe cormorants, who were enabled to keep them running upon rock taken from the mines under their control, the object, of course, being to keep the stamps going, regardless of the value of the ore to be worked, and so, if no good rock was to be had, anything else that came first was sent — the mill would crush waste as well as the richest ore, and one paid as much as the other to those who crushed .it. It sometimes happened, of course, that this business brought the mines into debt, and then the trustees would levy an assessment to .pay the bill. When good ore was coming from the mines, it would sometimes be mixed with waste, so as to make three tons of ore. Suppose a mine was yielding rock that would work $75 per ton — one ton of it and two tons of waste would be hauled to the mill, which would thus receive $39 (three tons at $13) for doing that which should have cost the company but $6. It is easy enough to see how the ' mill ring ' grew rich and powerful off of this sort, of thing, and not at all difficult to understand how so many people who put their money into mining stocks lost it. About $7 per ton was the profit (?) on each ton of ore worked by the c ring,' and as about 1,000 tons per day were worked for some five or six years, any one tolerably well up in arithmetic

may figure np the profits on the one side and the losses on the other. And there was another way in which they made much money, and that waa in ' tailings,' for the object being to work rapidly, of course the work was not thorough, and mud that would, under a more careful process, have gone to the "stockholders as bullion, remained as mill perquisites in the shape of ' tailings,' which were afterwards worked at large profits. And, in course of time, the ' mill ring ' grew rich and powerful, for they controlled all the mines that were considered worth controlling, owned all the mills that were worth owning, as well as all the courts and the country generally, and if any man dared say his soul was hia own, he was forthwith ruined in his fortune and run out of the country. And for all this the goofl, easy people of San Francisco paid their assessments and lost the money they invested in mining stocks ; and if they continue to invest before some change in the mode of management is brought about, the same result will again follow."

Now, I want to ask you, General Wright, whether yon heard of ores mixe# with rock being sent to the mill, or a very low grade of ore that didn't pay for mining?

A. I have heard of good ore being mixed with poor ore and sent to the mills.

Q. Ore that wouldn't pay by itself?

A. Ore that probably wouldn't pay by itself. That is the information that I got. But I know nothing about it; I don't know how reliable the statements were.

Q. Did you get it from one of the prominent men connected with the mines?

A. Not any managing man, that I know of.

Q. Was it an owner of the mine?

A. Yes, he was reputed to be an Qwner in a mine.

Q. And he said that that was a practice ?

A. No; I won't state that it was a practice, but that it had been done.

Q. That they mixed in low-grade ores, that didn't pay for mining, with good ore, in order to make up a great number of tons?

A. I understand it was for the benefit of the mills. They got so much a ton for reducing the ore. They were obliged to return 65 per cent, of the assay value of the ore. If they could take a ton that would assay $50, and mix it with a ton that was worth $10, the sum of the two values was $60, or $30 a ton.

Q. Well, then, General Wright, if a man didn't own the mine, but did own the mill, this operation would accrue to 23

his benefit, wouldn't it, while the mine owner would be the loser ?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. And if they didn't own the mine, it would come out of the stockholders in assessments?

A. It would be so much loss to the mine. In the case which I have stated, they would reduce the $50 ore at a cost of $12 a ton, returning the 65 per cent, of that amount to the miners; in the case of mixing, there would be a charge of $24.

Q. Now, I want to ask you one single question here, General. Do not these mills get the tailings which are left from working the ore ? Do they not claim the tailings as their property ?

A. My impression is, that, as a rule, they do. I have heard of instances, however, where the tailings belonged to the owners of the mine.

Q. Does the Union Mill Company keep the tailings ?

A. I suppose so.

Q. Don't the Bank of California control that company ?

A. I don't know.

Q. Who is at the head of it ?

A. The agent of the Bank of California.

Q. "Well, isn't it Very important .for the Union Mill Company to get all the ore they can, whether it pays or not?

A. All up to the working capacity of their mills undoubtedly.

Q. Well, then, if these same parties control the mines, isn't it in their power to send bed rock or country rock to these mills, and get $12 a ton for working it?

A. It seems so.

Q. If they don't work up to the standard of 65 per cent, the mining companies are to be the judges, are they not?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. And these mining companies are controlled also, to a large extent, by the same parties?

A. To some extent, certainly.

Q. Arid what remains over 65 per cent, these mills get and keep ?

A. No, I don't so understand it. They are obliged to return all that they obtain, but must return 65 per cent.

Q. Well, do they ever return over 65 per cent. ?

A. They say they do.

Q. Does the Union Mill and Mining Company?

A. That I cannot answer.

Q. Is it not natural that men owning mills there, and having the whole sway and swing of things, would oppose the construction of a work which would materially and radically change the mode of working the mines and the mills?

A. It would be natural that they should oppose anything which they would think in opposition to their own interests.

Q. And their interest is to keep up the present system of working the mines and its mills against the tunnel ?

A. I think they say so, without exception.

Q. Well, are not the laboring men over there in favor f the tunnel ?

A. I should think, as a rule, they are.

Q. Have you heard a single laboring man over there, a miner, a working miner, say anything against that tunnel?

A. I heard some of them say they felt no particular interest in it one way or another.

Q. Have you heard of any one opposing it?

A. I cannot say that I have.

Q. Did Mr. Sharon, in his intercourse with you, express any violent opposition to the tunnel?

A. He expressed the intention of opposing it, certainly, as being in opposition to his own interests.

Q. Did he say he was going to break it up if he could?

A. I don't think he went so far as that. He said he meant to oppose Jit.

Q. Now, General, let me quote here from a speech made by General Blair, of Michigan, in the House of Representatives, in which he u^es the following

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I would like to have that whole speech taken down.

Mr. SUTRO. All right. "We'll take down the whole of it. I want to ask General Wright whether that agrees with his view or experience over there. It is from a debate in Congress :

" Mr. BLAIE. The tunnel was not then begun. But when I was there I heard a very diligent discussion of the question. The gentleman whose name has been mentioned in this discussion, Mr. William Sharon, the agent of the Bank of California at the Comstock lode, took me in his buggy and carried me to his crushing mills, and showed me the line of the new railroad he waa building, or rather had got the people to build for him. He took me to his mines, to the very bottom of them, showed me all about them, and told me lie was determined this Sutro tunnel business should be stopped."

Then, in closing his speech, Mr. Blair said:

" Sir, this bank has waved its hand over the Comstock lode and ordered Sutro away. That is the whole of this transaction, as it seems to me."

General Wright, did you, sir, in your intercourse with Mr. Sharon, hear any similar expressions to that?

A. I heard Mr. Sharon express over and again his opposition to the tunnel project.

Q. Did he say he was going to stop it?

A. I have no recollection of his saying that.

Q. Didn't he say he would try to break it up; or didn't you arrive at that conclusion from his statement?

A. I arrived at the conclusion that he would do everything in his power to prevent the project being carried out.

Q. Do you think, then, he would try to set aside a law of Congress?

A. I certainly do; but how he was to proceed about it of course I don't know. I had some conversation with Mr. Sharon upon the subject, but I never asked him a question in reference to his views. These were rather casual expressions.

Q. He didn't consider the tunnel as to his interests?

A. He considered it opposed to his interests.

Q. And he was using every means to break it up?

A. I don't know. I presume he would use every means.

Q. Now, Mr. Sunderland, let me ask you a question right here; who sent you here? •

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I decline to answer.

Q. Don't the Bank of California?

A. No, sir.

Q. Don't Mr. Sharon ?

A. No, sir.

Q. Who do you telegraph to — who do you write to from here — reporting progress ?

A. I will answer the question now. I am sent here by the entire Comstock, as it existed and was controlled when I went there, without exception.

Q. Who pays your expenses ?

A. The whole Comstock.

Q. Who do you direct your letters to from here, and who do you report to what you are doing? Will you answer that question ?

A. No, I will not.

Q. Who have you telegraphed to from Washington since you have been here, and who do you write to and report to ?

A. I don't propose to be catechized.

Q. Do you report to anybody but the agent of the Bank of California?

Mr. SESSIONS. What transpires between the attorney and his employers is a privileged question.

HEARING THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 29iH.

Mr. SUTRO, (continuing examination of General Wright.) General, I think I gave you some figures last night in regard to the flow of water by what is called the miner's inch. I gave you those figures, and I asked you to look over them to see if you found them correct. What result have you arrived at?

A. My figures differ somewhat from those given me last evening.

Q. Will you be kind enough to state what you arrived at?

A. In estimating for the miner's inch, I took what I understood there to be the head of water; that is, six inches above the top of the orifice. That makes a difference of half an inch in the head.

Q. We have been in the habit of figuring from the center of the orifice six inches?

A. That is what I presumed from the difference in the figures.

Q. Well, taking your figures, what did you get?

A. I obtained a velocity of 5/g- feet per second, or 354 feet per minute as a theoretical velocity, or 2T4^- cubic feet.

Q. How much was mine ?

A. It was 2T3^-. This is a little larger, or ISJj imperial gallons, or 18 y^ standard gallons. I presume you figured on standard gallons instead of imperial. You put the wrong term to it, and I imagine it makes a discrepancy in our figures.

Q. I stated imperial gallons.

A. But this weight was standard gallons, I presume.

Q. Now, how much would that give in five inches in the Ophir mine?

A. I would wish to saj7 before, that that is the theoretical velocity. The actual velocity is considerably less. It

is about |, and I would give the actual velocity as 236 feet per minute, the actual discharge as $f£g cubic feet, or 12-^ standard gallons. That is the actual discharge. The first is theoretical only.

Q. That is put down in the rules?

A. It is put down in the rules as two-thirds of the theoretical, taking into consideration the size of the orifice.

Q. If I understand rightly, the orifice of an inch square contracts on the outer edge, and consequently you don't get a full square inch, and you have to deduct for it?

A. Yes, sir; that is the explanation.

Q. You have made a deduction of one-third ?

A. One-third, exactly.

Q. Then, what you arrive at is the absolute discharge?

A. The absolute discharge, or a very close approximation to it.

Q. Now, Mr. Day, in his statement to the commissioners, gives us the lowest estimate in the Ophir mine at 5 miner's inches. How much, under your rule, as you have established it there, would that amount to per minute and hour?

A. It would amount to SOj8^ imperial gallons per. minute, 3,051 per hour, 73,224 in 24 hours. I have taken these in imperial gallons, because they were so given in yours.

Q. And at what weight did you figure it at a gallon ?

A. Ten pounds to the gallon, which is the weight.

Q. How much would that amount to in 24 hours?

A. The weight of water in 24 hours would be 336TV% tons, of 2,000 pounds each.

Q. That makes somewhat of a difference in comparison with the figures which I made.

A. You would want to take one-third off your figures.

Q. I didn't deduct anything for loss. I calculated on a full square inch. ^ A. Well, that is too much.

Q. Mr. Batterman, the superintendent of the Gould and Curry mine, gives the discharge per hour at 3,500 gallons,

which would be very close to the figures you arrived at in the Ophir mine, taking his state meot for September, which is the lowest.

A. Thirty-five hundred gallons per hour would be more.

Q. It would be a little more in the Gould and Curry mine.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Does he give it at 3,500 gallons per hour ?

Mr. SUTRO. Yes, sir. If you wish, I will read the statement again. From this report, on page 33 :

"The cost of raising the water in this mine from a depth of 825 feet, and also running pump while sinking to 1,300 feetstation,has been -$60 per day; quantity of water raised about 3,500 gallons per hour."

I

Then, according to this statement of Mr. Batterman's, there was somewhat more water in the Gould and Curry mine than there was in the Ophir mine at the time this statement was furnished ?

Mr. WRIGHT. At the time the statement was furnished, the 10th of September, I think.

Q. Did you calculate, General Wright, how much the water amounted to in tons in the Ophir mine, taking the average of the year commencing with June, 1870, and end ing the 1st of June, 1871?

A. The average was lOf inches.

Q. How much would that be in tons for 24 hours ?

A. Seven hundred and eighty-one tons and five one-thousandths, (781 roVo-)

Q. Did you make any figures on the maximum quantity, as stated by Captain Day, for that year, which is 18 inches?

A. Eighteen inches gives the weight for 24 hours at 1,318 tons.

Q. All these figures are somewhat less than what I had given. I made no allowance for any decrease in the discharge. I took the theoretical discharge as given in the • rule.

A. You want to take two-thirds of that, and your figures will come very near these.

Q. Now, I want to ask you, General Wright, taking the

lowest statement here by Mr. Day — 336 tons — and taking the highest statement during that year — 1,381 tons for every 24 hours — what would you consider the increase would be after they tap the Comstock lode again ? They were then in the country rock, and I believe you stated it is not prob able that there is as much water in the country rock as there would be in tapping the vein. Would you think that the water in tapping the vein would come back again to this higher standard, as we have it here ? A. That is utterly impossible to tell. Q. Wouldn't you think it (juite likely ? A. I should think certainly, that they would find more water as they go into the vein.

Q* Well, then, from the statements that we have before us here, we find that the Gould and Curry mine had the most water.

A. It would seem so, taking the two statements of the Gould and Curry and Ophir, the Gould and Curry is greater.

Q. Now, I want to ask you this question again. What would you consider, according to your general opinion about the country, a fair estimate, based upon these data, for every thousand feet on that lode, provided each thousand feet would be opened ?

A. I don't think I have Hie data to form any estimates that would possess the slightest value.

Q. Well, I will not press that matter any further, because you have no data to gcK§n, and you cannot arrive at any result. We have to form our own opinion. A. "No two men will get the same, probably. Q. If you find 366 tons' of water for every 24 hours after three dry seasons, which is the very lowest estimate that we have, we can arrive at some general idea what it would be, provided the whole Comstock lode be properly opened by shafts. General, do you see any difficulty in making bore-holes, as they do in the Pennsylvania oil wells, down to the tunnel? A. None whatever.

Q. Is it not a very simple operation'?

A. Certainly, with proper machinery it is.

Q. Provided that these bore-holes would be made connecting with the tunnel, wouldn't every drop of this water run out by its own flow?

A. Certainly.

Q. In the case of the Ophir company they would have saved the pumping of 781 tons of water for every 24 hours during the year. Do you know that the Ophir company has taken out any ore from their mine since they commenced work on this new shaft ?

A. I understand not.

Q. Now, under the contracts, or the law under which these people owning mines on the Comstock lode pay a royalty, would these people who own the Ophir mine have had to pay anything to the tunnel company during that time?

A. That mine would not.

Q. Consequently the Ophir mine would have had the full benefit of the" tunnel for drainage; and, provided they would have connected it with the tunnel, they would also have had ventilation absolutely for nothing ?

A. Certainly.

Q. In your investigations on the Comstock lode have you arrived at any figures which would give us an idea how many feet out of the 22,000 of the lode are actually productive in depth — that were, when you were there, productive in depth ?

A. No, I have not. It can easily be calculated.

Q. Now, supposing you go over this list. It don't matter about a few feet. We c&n arrive at a general idea about it. At the north end there was nothing north of the Ophir mine that was productive in depth ?

A. Nothing, but on the surface.

Q. Taking the 1,000-foot level as a basis: There is the Ophir mine, which had nothing in depth. Then there comes the Consolidated Virginia: had they anything there ?

A. Nothing.

Q. There are several small mines I leave out.

A. Those were mere surface workings.

Q. Did the Gould and Curry have anything in depth?

A. Nothing.

Q. Did the Savage have anything in depth* at that time?

A. At the deepest point, they did not.

Q. Under the 1,000-foot level ?

A. I am not prepared to say that.

Q. Did you hear anything?

A. I think not as low as 1,000 feet.

Q. Was the Hale and Norcross below the thousand feet?

A. I fancy not.

Q. Well, they may have had something down there, possibly ?

A. I think not. Those are the two mines I did not go into.

Q. You at least tried to go in?

A. Well, we would have gone in, except they were pumping.

Q. The Chollar Potosi mine comes next?

A. Nothing there.

Q. Then there comes the Bullion?

A. Nothing.

Q. Then the Alpha?

A. Nothing.

Q. Then come all the Gold Hill mines — a dozen of them. Was there anything down there before you came to the Yellow Jacket?

A. Nothing.

Q. Then we have the Yellow Jacket?

A. They were finding it low down.

Q. For how many feet did the Yellow Jacket find it in length on the lode?

A. That I have forgotten.

Q. Then comes the Kentuck. Did they have anything below the 1,000-foot level?

A. That I cannot say. That is a mine I didn't go into.

Q. Then comes the Crown Point?

A. The Crown Point did.

Q. Then comes the Belcher?

A. They had just struck it when we were there.

Q. Then comes the Segregated Belcher and the Overman. Did they have anything?

A. E"o, sir. .

Q. Then out of the 30 or 40 mines there, the Belcher, the Crown Point, the Yellow Jacket, the Hale and tor-eros s

Mr. SUNDERLAND. He says that handn't anything below there.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, the General stated that he hadn't been down there. Did they state to you, General, there was nothing down there ?

Mr. WRIGHT. I don't remember that they did. Their maps would have shown us, which they furnished us with.

Q. Well, that is immaterial. The Hale and JSTorcross probably had some ore down there.

A. They were working down ; but my impression is, not as low as the 1,000-foot level. But I am not certain.

Q. Then, out of 30 or 40 mining companies, we have but three mines out of which we get ore below the 1,000-foot level ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Who says there are 40 mining companies ?

Mr. SUTRO. Well, I will take the list here, and that will show it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. There are no 40 mining companies.

Mr. WRIGHT. I can give you what companies are actually engaged in mining. There are other companies in existence, I believe.

Mr. SUTRO. First is the Utah; one thousand feet. Did that have anything, General, in depth.

A. No deep mining.

Q. I am speaking of below the 1,000-foot level. A. No ore.

Q. The Allen. Did they have anything ?

A. No.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. But there is no such company.

Mr. SUTRO. Then comes the Sierra Nevada; 2,657 feet?

Mr. WRIGHT. No.

Q. The Union ; 302 feet. Did that have anything, General ?

A. Nothing.

Q. The Ophir north ; 1,200 feet?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. If the chairman please, there are no such companies as these in existence. The Sierra Nevada is the only one called that has any existence. I object to Mr. Sutro making testimony here.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland, will you deny that there are any such mines in existence ? The companies may not be in active operation now ; they may have given up. Do you state here that there are nq such mines as those?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I do.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, we'll take King's report.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Except the Utah, all those mentioned there are considered with the Sierra Nevada. They are located in front of each other, along the supposed line of the Corn stock. They have gone out of existence, excepting the Utah, and there has been no working done for 7 or 8 years. They were abandoned long ago.

Mr. SUTRO. Why are they abandoned?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Because there never was any ore in them.

Mr. SUTRO. Because it cost too much to pump out water and mine under present methods, and they haven't got the money to do it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The Utah is an imaginary claim up north of the Sierra Nevada. It never had a pound of ore in it in the world.

Mr. SUTRO. We have got Mr. King's report here, which is a Government report, and which you have quoted from quite frequently. We will take that as our basis now. We won't look at any map at all. Mr. King states on page 99 :

" MINING CLAIMS. — The following is a list of the mining claims located on the course of the lode, as far as its continuity has been traced with any certainty. It gives the length of ground claimed for each company or individual owner, beginning at the north and proceeding towards the mouth: Utah, 1,000 feet; Allen, 925 feet; Sierra Nevada, 1,959 feet ; Union, 500 feet."

General, will you be kind enough to state when I come to a mine that has ore below the 1,000-foot level?

A. Ore or working ?

Q. One which has been mining ore; ore found below the 1,000-foot level, or working ore at the time you were over there.

" Union, 500 feet ; Ophir north mine, 1,200 feet ; Mexican, 100 feet ; Ophir south mine, 200 feet ; Central, 150 feet ; California, 300 feet ; Central No. 2, 100 feet ; Kinney, 50 feet ; White and Murphy, 210 feet ; Sides, 500 feet."

I might as well state here, that from the Central No. 2, to and including the Sides, they have been consolidated into one company, now called the Virginia Consolidated. Next comes the

" Best and Belcher, 250 feet; Gould antf Curry, 1,200 feet; Savage, 771 feet; Hale and Norcross, 400 feet."

A. I understand the Savage has struck ore since we came away, but when we were there it had not.

Q. We are speaking about the time these reports were made. What was your statement about' the Hale and

A. I am not positively certain of it. I didn't visit the mine.

Q. Well, suppofiug we count that in as having ore?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Needn't count it in unless th® General says so.

Mr. SUTRO. Well, so as to make no mistake about it, we will count it in. You are doubtful about it?

Mr. WRIGHT. I am doubtful about it. It is my impression that they found no ore below the 1,000 feet.

Mr. SUTRO. Then comes the

"Chollar Potosi, 1,434 feet; Bullion, 940 feet; Exchequer, 400 feet; Alpha, 278 J feet; Apple and Bates, 31 J feet; Imperial North, 118 feet; Bacon, 45 feet; Empire North, 55 feet; Eclipse, 30 feet; Trench, 20 feet; Empiresouth mine, 20 feet ; Plato, 10 feet ; Bowers, 20 feet ; Pi-Ute, 20 feet ; Winters and Kiis-tel, 30 feet; the Consolidated, 21 feet; Rice ground, 13£ feet; Imperial south mine, 65f feet ; Challenge, 50 feet ; Confidence, 130 feet; Burke and Hamilton, 40 feet; Yellow Jacket, 943 feet."

I 367

A. That mine was working. Q. That has ore in depth?

"Kentuck, 93f feet; Crown Point, 540 feet."

A. That was working below that level.

Q. "Belcher, 940 feet; Segregated Belcher, 160 feet; Overman, 1,200 feet; North American, 2,000 feet; Baltimore American, 2,000."

"Will you please to state how many feet there are in the Comstock altogether?

A. In the claims named there are 21,463f feet.

Q. Do you know how large a body of ore they were working in the Belcher mine ?

A. I do not. It was not developed.

Q. The claim is 940 feet in length ; but were they working for the whole length, you think ?

A. The new strike had not been developed for the whole length of it at that time.

Q. In the Crown Point, do you know how long the ore body is there ?

,1 A. I have quite forgotten. I think it is stated in a report, however.

Q. Let us take the whole length of these three claims : Yellow Jacket, 943 feet; Crown Point, 540; and the Belcher, 940. How much do. you make that altogether?

A. I make it 2,423 feet.

Q. Will you be kind enough to state, General, the proportion that bears to the whole length of the lode, without giving any decimals — to give an approximate figure ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. You don't mean to say of the productive part ?

A. No ; of all the mines named.

Q. The entire length of the mines ?

A. Yes, sir.

Mr. SUTRO. General, do you think that in the Crown Point mine, which is" given here at a length of 540 feet, one half of it has the bonanza extending through it?

A. I shouldn't like to answer such a question.

Q. "When you were in the mine, did you notice fhe length of the ore body in that mine ?

A. I did not.

Q. J)o you recollect anything about the Yellow Jacket ?

A. Nothing about its length.

Q. There are 943 feet given here as the length of the mine. Do you think they have ore for one-half that distance ?

A. No; I don't think anything about it.

Q, According to these figures here we have arrived at by examining this official report, we find that a little over y1^ of the Comstock lode was ore-producing in depth below 1,000 feet?

A. At the time the commission was in Nevada.

Q. That would give us then T9^ of the length of that whole lode, or 19,040 feet of non-producing vein and 2,423 feet of producing vein ?

A. Yes; 19,040|.

Q. Provided, now, that the tunnel were constructed and the lateral drift extended undSr all these mines, wouldn't these 19,040 feet of the Comstock lode below the 1,000-foot level derive the whole benefits of drainage and ventilation which the tunnel would furnish for' nothing while they have not discovered any ore ?

A. If these mines were all connected with the tunnel, they would then be completely drained of all water without a question, and they would experience certain advantages from ventilation.

Q. Do you understand that 19,040 feet out of the 21,463 would derive these benefits under these circumstances, as you saw them, for nothing?

A. If they work the mines and connnect them with the tunnel, they certainly will.

Q. I take it for granted now that this tunnel is completed and the branches are all made. These people could extend these bore-holes to it ?

A. They could.

Q. The connection of their shafts with the tunnel would be a natural consequence, would it not?

A. If they work the mines I think they will connect.

Q. Thon, admitting that to be so, would it not be correct that the 19,040 feet of the Comstock lode would, under those circumstances, get the whole benefit of the drainage and ventilation for absolutely nothing?

A. That is certainly according to the conditions of the contract. Any mine that is connected with the tunnel will be drained and ventilated for nothing, if it is not getting out ore.

Q. In order to get at a direct answer to my question, General, will you please state whether all these mines along the lode, connected with the tunnel, and in the state you found them in at the time, that is 19,040 feet, would not derive the whole benefit of the drainage and ventilation under the terms of the contract for nothing ?

A, Under the contract, if connected with the tunnel. The way in which your question is put seems to rather imply that in my opinion all these mines that you named will be connected with the tunnel, and that they will be prosecuted.

Q. I will suppose that case, General ?

A. Well, if you suppose that case, and they are connected with the tunnel, they will certainly be drained without expense.

The CHAIRMAN. General Wright, will there be a complete drainage, provided the adits were run along the vein, without perpendicular holes being bored?

A. JSTo ; there must be the connection between the mine and the tunnel.

Q. But providing the tunnel were run underneath, at a certain level, would the drainage be complete without an orifice ?

A. Not necessarily ; probably not.

Q. The material or the rock would permit the water to percolate down to the level of the tunnel ?

A. It might or it might not. As we have said in the 24

report, the water seems to be found in what they term their pockets. It is in places, surrounded by an impermeable seam of clay. How far these pockets will extend down nobody can tell. If they extend down to the tunnel, and were tapped at the bottom, it would drain everything. If they only go down to within 500 or 600 feet of the tunnel level, then there would be no other way of draining off the water by the tunnel than by making this connection between the working mine and the tunnel.

Q. Water only interferes with work in the mines when these clay-pockets are tapped?

A. As a rule, they are the great trouble.

Q. Then, if they tapped those clay-pockets and the water flowed into the loose or permeable rock, would it escape downward ?

A. I think not. Their experience is the reverse of that. As I understand it, the Chollar Potosi shaft, which is down perhaps 600 or 700 feet below where they are working, is pretty nearly filled with water, and has remained so. They have done no pumping for a long time. The penetration of water, I think, down through, can be very little.

Q. If there were access for the water on a horizontal line cut from the bottom of that tiittiel, would it not carry it away from the upper workings?

A. No, sir; the upper workings are not disturbed at all. In the Chollar Potosi the shaft is carried down to the lowest depth. They gave up prospecting there, abandoned that portion of it, and went to work on the higher levels ; nothing, perhaps, below the 700-foot level; and in that portion of the mine where they are now working, above, we will say, the 700-foot level, there is no occasion for pumping at all.

Q. The water escapes in the shaft?

A. There is no water there of any amount.

Mr. SUTRO. "Well, was there water there at some time?

A. I presume there was originally.

Q. If there were, wouldn't it naturally drain off into the shaft?

A. It drains off into the shaft, and the shaft is .filled np pretty nearly, as they told me. I didn't go down, because they said there were no means of going down. f

Q. Do you 6ee any difficulty in making those bore-holes?

A. None.

Q. Would the expense be anything compared with the cost of mining?

A. Very little. It, would be comparatively small. There would be no difficulty at all.

Q. We have here 2,423 feet of productive mine, and 19,040 of unproductive below the 1,000 foot level ; consequently the work going on in the 19,040 is simply for. prospecting; that is, to discover ore ?,

A. It is to discover ore, undoubtedly.

Q. Now, General, can you s^ any hardship in a small portion of the lode paying a royalty, when T^- of it gets the benefit of the tunnel for nothing?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That is to say

Mr. SUTRO. Will you please let the General answer my question ?

Mr. WRIGHT. Would it be an answer to tbe question for me to say I should suppose that that ^ would object most strenuously to paying for any benefits to .the other

Q. Would it not be a benefit to the general interests of mining, taking a rational view of it, by putting a premium on explorations in barren mines, and making the productive mines contribute something towards that? That is the principle involved.

A. Well, that seems to me to be a question which I could not well be called on to answer. I should very much prefer replying to it in a different shape from that.

Q. Well, I will put my question in a little different shape : Don't you consider it is putting a premium on explorations under such an arrangement? Is it not a sort of equalzation of expenditures in the mines?

A. Why, it certainly is that.

Q. Will you permit me to redd from a speech made in

the House of Representatives by the Hon. M. C. Kerr,' of Indiana, covering that very point, and give us your opinion upon the correctness of that statement made by Mr. Kerr. He says :

" I think that in the original proposition there was nothing wrong, nothing unjust, nothing oppressive, nothing that in any of its characters and incidents is extraordinary, as is intimated by the honorable gentlemen on the other side. It is said that the old law organized a monopoly in Nevada. I do not understand that it does any such thing, or brings about any such result. This tunnel idea stands upon a very common one in .application to various other subjects throughout the country, audit, is only by the name that is given to it in Nevada that the people are misled, And do not understand just what it means. The country is everywhere familiar with various systems of ordinary sewerage and drainage in cities, towns, and the country. The obvious principles of law, of just and fair contributions for common advantages and benefits, on which they are maintained, are well understood. There is no character of monopoly or uncommon hardship about them'.

"Now, Mr. Speaker, the whole of this law consists in this simple proposition : that here is to be constructed a sewer, if you please, a drain, that will inevitably benefit every owner whose property is in any way reached and drained and ventilated by it. In this city of Washington, and in all the cities of this country, it is a common practice to require the persons who derive advantage from the construction of such works to contribute to their construction originally, and to their maintenance thereafter."

In another place, in the same speech, he says:

"This tunnel company was organized at the request of these miners, at the request of the Senators and Representatives from the State of Nevada, at the request of the Legislature of Nevada, at the request of the Governor of Nevada, and of all the people of Nevada, in all the forms in which they could make their wishes known to Congress."

Further on he says :

"But it is very clear, Mr. Speaker, that while gentlemen say here that these people had a possessory right in this soil before this last law was passed, they utterly destroy the value that is in that position when they also^ say that the mines involved in .this legislation have very great value, and that, out of the mines, these same miners have already extracted $100,000,000 iu precious metals. Now, if that be so, it seems to me that for that shadowy, that unreal, that executory — it is not that much in law — that mere posses-sory claim of right, they have been most munificently paid, and ought not to come back here and ask for more. But a further answer to their position is found in the fact that, when the original application to Congress was made, these miners themselves went to work and executed these voluntary individual contracts with this tunnel company, by which they agreed, whenever the tunnel was constructed, to contribute these several sums to aid its construction and maintenance."

Again lie says:

"In addition to what I have said, I desire to call attention to a further fact, that under the law, which it is now desired to repeal, and under the contract which that law adopts, not one of these mining companies or individual miners is required to pay one farthing to the tunnel company in the way of royalty of anything else until the tunnel shall have been constructed, and they shall have begun to derive advantage from it. In other words, the

entire obligation is strictly reciprocal ; its burdens and its benefits go together; they run constantly and perpetually in parallel lines. And the whole assumption, therefore, that there is oppression or injustice or monopoly in this matter, strikes me as being very far-fetched and purely unfounded."

A. Do you wish me to say whether my opinion corresponds with that?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Strike out that last part of it, and I agree with it generally. I would prefer rather to give my views in my own language.

Q. Will you please state whether that agrees with your views, General?

A. With the exception of the last part of it. I wouldn't like to give my opinion about that, because I don't know anything about it.

Q. But you consider the general principle, as laid down, entirely correct then, according to this statesment?

A. I consider that the Government had a perfect right to grant to the Sutro Tunnel Company all the franchises they could give them, as the Government was the owner of the mines. The present possessors of the mine*, or the original possessors, those who first obtained the claims, did so ^without the paying of a dollar to the Government. When they were given their fee in the land; it was given to them for a nominal sum, and subject to the condition of this royalty; they could buy it or not, as they pleased.

Q. Yes, sir; but what I want to arrive at is, whether, under this system of mining of ores, we are not relieving to a very large extent the burdens of exploration below the 1,000-foot level of 19,040 feet, while but 2,423 feet have paying rock ?

A. You are relieving the unproductive companies wholly and entirely.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. From what? I don't understand you.

A. From certain of the costs of operating their mines.

Q. His question was, whether you were relieving the companies having unproductive mines from expensive exploring.

A. From certain of the expenses of exploring.

Mr. SUTRO. You will, after I get through, have a chance, Mr. Sunderland, to ask the General any questions you desire.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I merely wished to have the General understand the question.

Mr. SUTRO. We have, according to your figures here, an average in the Ophir mine of 781 tons of water for every 24 hours.

Mr. WRIGHT. Average for one year.

Q. ' The average per day.

A. Per clay for one year.

Q. Taking that as a basis, General, we find on the table here that the Ophir mine has 1,400 feet in length, and the explorations made in that mine extend through but a small portion of that company's ground. Would you consider that that company, if it had saved the pumping or hoisting of 780 tons of water every 24 hours, would not have saved the bulk of the expense which it was under?

A. I suppose they would have saved In that year, as stated by the superintendent in his report, §20,342 04/

Q. Taking it for. granted that that is correct

A. I have to take that for granted. I have no reason to doubt it.

Q. Well, do you believe, then, General, that they could hoist out 365 times 781 tons of water for the sum stated there?

A. It seems they did.

Q. Provided their statement is correct?

A. I assume that it is.

Q. What reasons have you for supposing that that statement is correct?

A. I have this reason, that from my intercourse with the superintendent of that mite, (and I will say the same for all,) I believe them to be intelligent men, and to have given what they believed to be an honest statement.

Q. Did they give you any indirect cost?

A. They gave us just what is there, and nothing further, that I remember. There was a great deal of conversation.

upon the subject, but I recollect nothing to put in evidence, except what is stated in the paper.

Q. General, the present superintendent of the Ophir mine (Mr. Day is no longer there) gives the cost of pumping for January §2,483 26; that is this last month. He states :

" The indirect cost of raising the water for the month of January is estimated at about $3,000."

Consequently he gives the indirect cost at $3,000, while the absolute cost, besides the indirect cost, is only given at §2,483 26. ISTow, there are* expenses connected with that that are not given.

A. I know nothing of that statement at all. I cannot see what expenses co'uld be incurred in the pumping other than those given in this statement of the superintendent of the Ophir Mining Company.

Q. Will you permit me to ask you whether there is any difference in hoisting a given quantity of water and a given quantity of ore, supposing the former were hoisted?

A. There would be a great deal of difference.

Q. How much do you think that difference would be?

A. I couldn't answer. It depends upon the way in which the ore is raised.

Q. Well, supposing they take their water out with a large water tank. This tank is lowered down into the sump, a valve opens in the bottom, and it fills up, and it is hoisted to the surface. It is an instantaneous operation, the filling up. You have a single tank, and the only additional weight you hoist is the weight of the tank besides the water. ISTow, how would that compare with pumping the water ?

A. It would probably cost considerable more.

Q. How much do }7ou think, allowing for the friction in the pipes used in pumping?

A. That would be quite impossible to tell. There is no way that you can raise any less weight, or raise it perhaps any more favorably, than by this tank, so far as the mere hoisting is concerned ; but there is a certain time when

there is an absolute waste of power in the use of that mode. For instance, all the time the tank is going down there has to be a certain power exerted to retard its progress, and-there is an expenditure which they do not get in the other cases. Moreover, the absolute power required to be used at any one moment is less with a pump, in the way in which they have them arranged, than it is in bringing up this supply of water. By means of a counter-weight, they apply something like one-half the power at the given moment; the expenditure is very much the same in the two cases, that is, you have got to'bring this counter-weight back again, and that is attended also by an expenditure of power. The application is more favorable by a pump, arranged as they have it there, than it is by a hoisting tank; but what the difference is depends entirely upon the character of the machine.

Q. General, let me ask you another question in regard to that. Don't you require a horse-power for every 33,000 pounds of water that you lift, one foot high in one minute?

A. That is what is called a horse-power. That's the conventional value of a horse-power, raising 33,000 pounds one foot high in one minute.

Q. Can you get over the fact that you have to have a horse-power, no matter what the mode, or how you manage it, to raise every 33,000 pounds of water or anything else one foot high in one minute — whether you pump it or hoist it?

A. You certainly have got to expand that power unquestionably.

Q. Then the mechanical question is this: How would the friction in the pipe

A. Which is considerable.

compare with the additional weight of this tank

which you have to hoist every time? Do you consider that there is a material difference ?

A. I should think the friction in the pipes would be more than the weight of the tank, that is, the power required

to overcome that friction would be greater than that to raise the weight of the tank.

Q. Well, do you think there is 25 per cent, difference, at a rough estimate, without going into any detailed figures ?

A. Well, this is a thing that is susceptible of a good deal of accuracy. Machinery does not make power. You have get to overcome the weight of the water you raise, no matter what devices of machinery you may apply. One machine makes the application of power much more economical than another, and that is all. The force necessary to raise this water to the surface must be applied, whatever machinery you use. No machinery can allow you the application of less power. In one case you apply it all the time in one direction; in the other case, you apply it in two directions; and by the time the water is at the surface, supposing all other things are equal, as regards weight and as regards friction, (we'll take those out for the purpose of illustration :) by the time that water is at the surface, you must have expended all the necessary power for raising that water to the surface.

Q. But supposing you make a liberal allowance. You say it costs double in a tank what it costs in a pump.

A. I don't think it would cost double, and if you had two tanks, one running against the other, I shouldn't suppose there would be 10 per cent, difference ; I should think it would be more a matter of convenience than of cost.

Q. Supposing we take two-thirds or three-quarters of the cost to arrive at some figures, say allowing 25 per cent, more on one side than on the other?

A. Well, you can allow it.

Q. To arrive at some positive figures. You have given the cost of hoisting ore at 51 cents per ton ?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, let us deduct 25 per cent, which would give us cents per ton for hoisting water.

A. But you must't understand that that is any comparison

. The cost of raising a ton of ore is a great deal mope than the cost of raising a ton of water.

Q. £Tow, take 780 tons of water every 24 hours in the Ophir mine; that gives us §300 a day?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Or $9,000 a month, or $108,000 a year for pumping, even allowing 25 per cent.; $108,000 a year for pumping, taking the estimate which these people furnish for hoisting, and that is very low. I contend that they have not given the right figures on that. It would cost $108,000 per annum. Mr. Day gives the cost of pumping at $29.317 04. In your judgment, could there possibly be that much difference between the two ?

A. Oh, I don't think that there is that difference. I think, as I said before, that he has stated these sums as a very close approximation. Their books are very well kept, and they'can get 'at a very close figure as to the cost of any part of their operations, and unless Mr. Day has willfully falsified his report, the statement is correct. I would say that there is a great difference in cost between the hoisting of ore and the pumping of water. One is a continuous operation ; the other is intermittent. As I gathered from the mines, the best of them can hoist only about 250 tons of ore a day, while we show here from their own accounts that they pumped 700 or 800 tons of water daily.

Q. Did you see the books of the Ophir company, and examine them, to find out whether these figures are correct?

A. I only looked at their books generally.

Q. Did you go into the figures and figure it ?

A. I didn't go into the figures with any method.

Q. Then you based your estimates simply upon the statements furnished by these men?

A. That is all we profess.

Q. Now, supposing we take this estimate, here of $108,-. 000 a year for that one mine, and give that for a thousand feet in length on the lode as the cost of pumping, then in,

22,000 feet we get a cost of $2,376,000 per annum for pumping?

A. Very likely.

Q. Provided all the mines were opened up and worked to that depth. You see that makes a very large difference between the statement which you arrived at by taking the figures of these superintendents, making it §124,000.

A. Certainly. Your statement is entirely different, and I can make one very different from that, if I make certain assumptions. I can only give you evidence as it was presented to me. I have no further evidence to offer in any way.

Q. The fact that I want to arrive at here is simply this : You have taken the statements of these superintendents, supposing them to-be correct?

A. Believing them to be correct.

Q. You hod no other way of getting at them at all ?

A. ~No, sir.

Q. You were there visiting these mines, and you went to those gentlemen and asked them what it costs to prnnp. You have taken that as your basis, and you have given your figures in accordance with the statement those people furnished?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. Now, General, while we are on figures — I see you are pretty good on figures — I want to ask you about this water power on the Carson river, and you must pardon me if I ask you a good many questions about it. These are very important matters.

A? I will answer any question that T can answer, but I mny as well say it now, that I shall object hereafter to supposititious questions being forced upon me — questions which it seems to me tend to convey a judgment entirely different from the one that I possess. I shall have to do that in justice to myself. I think that some of these questions are calculated, if answered, to indicate a judgment different from the one that I have expressed in the report, and a different one from what I hold. -

Q. I might as well state to you, General, here, that I question the correctness of these statements furnished by these superintendents. You have not heard the previous testimony furnished by the other commissioners, in which we have shown the incorrectness of these reports to you. It would be quite impossible for me to go over the same ground again with you, but if you read the whole testimony afterwards, you can form your own conclusion whether these superintendents have stated the whole truth or not. You can -arrive at that conclusion, and you will then perceive that my questions to you may be supposititious questions, but, at the same time, they have a very strong bearing upon the general facts contained in the report. Now, General, I want to ask you a few questions in regard to this water power which may be created at the mouth of the tunnel. Surveyor General Day, on page 45, gives the average section of flow of Carson river, at the rate of four miles per hour, at 508 $fc square feet. Taking that as the basis of our calculation, with a fall of 255 feet, we get, at a flow of four miles per hour, 21,120 feet of flow per hour. Dividing that by 60, we get 352 feet per minute. Now, if we multiply the section of 508 ^o feet by 352 feet, we get the cubic feet which flow through the river per minute, which is 178, 932 J-fo cubic feet.

A. That is correct. I have no fraction.

Q. Now, a cubic foot of water weighs 62T37 pounds?

A. I calculated it at 62 J pounds.

Q. How many pounds do you get per minute at your figures ? We'll take your figures now.

A. I get 11,183,250.

Q. Per minute?

A. Per minute.

Q. Dividing that by 33,000, we get the horse-power for every foot of fall. How much do you make that?

A. I make it '339.

Q. If you multiply that by 255 feet of fall, we get a total of horse-power, according to your calculations, of how much?

A. Of 86,445.

Q. I figured it at 86,139; but you take a different weight per cubic foot of water.

A. It makes a slight difference.

Q. General, a power of 86,445 horses is a power that would work a good deal of ore, will it not?

A. Certainly.

Q. Do you think that it is power enough to reduce all the ore produced in the State of Nevada and every other territory that is producing ore, provided it could all be economized?

A. It will furnish all the water-power that will be needed in that section, if that is sufficient. It would be abundance of water power for the work of all the mills on the Con\- stock.

Q. How much power is required to reduce a ton of ore?

A. I do not know.

Q. Mr. King has fortunately given us some information on that subject. He states, on page 231 of his report:

" The power required for each stamp of ordinary or average weight, with the allowance for friction, is about 1? horse-power per stamp. The power demanded by the pans is from three to six horse-power, according to their size and capacity. The expenditure of power per ton of ore crushed, ground, and amalgamated, judging by the relation existing between the power of the engines provided and the work performed by the mills, is between H and 3 horse-power, averaging probably about 2, but varying according to the capacity of the milk and the economy with which the power is applied."

He gives us two horse-power required to reduce one ton of ore. "We have here 86,445 nominal horse-power.

A. Yes.

Q. Now, we will have to deduct a certain amount for friction and loss in power, in order to arrive at the actual horse-power. This is the theoretical horse-power?

A. No, I think not, in the way he puts it there. I suppose he includes the friction and everything. If two-horse power be a fair average, as he has. it there, he includes everything in the reduction of the ore.

Q. Then, according to that statement of Mr. King's, which is derived' from a general examination of all the mills, (he spent six or eight months there; may-be a year,

for all I know ; and they had him examine these things in detail; they had a whole corps of engineers with them,) we have actual power to reduce 43, 220 } tons of ore a day. We find it stated in your report that the average yield is 1,000 tons per day; and at that rate there would be power enough left to reduce 42,000 tons per day, besides what ip taken out of the Comstock lode now?

A. Yes, a little over 42,000 tons.

Q. .Well, wouldn't you consider that that surplus power would be sufficient for the purpose of condensing air and running all the engines that would be required to go down below the tunnel level ?

A. Well, I should think it might, certainly.

Q. Don't you think, in addition to all that, tha*t there will be enough left to drive all the concentrating machinery?

A. Certainly.

Q. And any other kind of machinery that might be required ?

A. Certainly.

Q. Wouldn't there be a surplus of power then?

A. I should think you would have an abundance "of power.

Q. !N"ow, General, in taking the whole of this water power, by having it dammed up as is proposed, and collecting the surplus in a targe reservoir, instead1'^ having little dams that only economize a portion of the river, and sometimes in the year have no water at all, wouldn't it be immensely more beneficial?

A. We have given that as the opinion of the commis-' sion in the report.

Q. Wouldn't that in fact 6e the maximum of utility with which that water could be applied in that river.

A. I certainly think so. I see no other way in which it can be applied with anything like the economy, <">r value, or extent.

Q. I am now brought to the question of erecting mills and concentrating works at the mouth of the tunnel. Do you think, in the first place, that the formation of

the country, from the mouth of the tunnel down to the river, is of such a character as to give great advantages in erecting self-acting or other automatic concentrating works, whore one discharges itself into the other, simply by the flow of water, without handling or the labor. of men?

A. I think the ground in front of the tunnel, between it and the river, is adrni rally fitted for the application of this water power, and any purposes to which it is desirable to apply it.

Q. Could we improve anything in its nature, so far as that site is concerned — a natural slope from the mouth of the tunnel a mile or a mile and a half down to the river?

A. I think that art will have to be brought to the assistance of -nature but to a very small degree.

Q. But as far as the grade is concerned, isn't it fitted by nature for that very work ?

A. Well, it is well fitted. I don't think you could desire a better situation for mills and reduction works than is afforded by the ground between the tunnel and the river.

Q. So far as the space is concerned which we have there, could there be anything more desirable than that?

A. There is an abundance of space.

Q. There are hundreds of acres, or even thousands, are there not, that might be employed, if necessary?

A. It is practically unlimited.

Q. Yvrher j those mills are now situated in the canons

Mr. SUNDEI&AND. Which mills do you speak of?

Mr. SUTRO. I will name the mills in Gk>ld canon or Six Mile canon. Is there any space there to erect concentrating works and reduction works on a large scale to advantage ?

Mr. WRIGHT. Kot to equal advantage certainly ; but the objection to erecting reduction works in these canons is the want of water. That in itself is a nearly insuperable objection to their being put there.

Q. It would make it practically impossible to have reduction works there ?

A. On a very large scale, certainly ; I think it would.

Q. The first requirement^ I infer from your statement, is an abundance of water ?

A. An abundance of water.

Q. In fact the water takes the place of the labor of men *by its own flow?

A. Water is necessary in these works, absolutely necessary for the purposes of concentration and reduction. The power applied maybe steam power instead of water power, but water is still absolutely necessary to the reduction of the ores of the Cornstock.

Q. In coming back now to these small mills, erected on the banks of the river, have they any opportunity there to erect concentrating works, and is there fall enough to make self-acting or automatic works possible, such as you would get at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. The answer to that question seems to me to be that they have not power enough even to run their stamps at certain seasons. At the time we were there, a great many stamps were hung up in all of the mills along the Carson river.

Q. Then, independently of that, is there space enough and fall enough to erect concentrating works upon an intelligent basis on any scale that would be profitable?

A. That I cannot answer very positively; but I should think, in reference to some of them, that it was possible ; with others not.

Q. Would it not be very limited, with a fall say of from 12 to 20 feet, as it has been stated here ?

A. I don't see why they should attempt to put further works there, when they have not power enough for the works they have at present. That seems to be meeting the point, if I understand the object of the question. About the Mexican mill there is a good deal of space for concentrating works, but they want all their power for their present works, and more power at certain seasons of the year than they can obtain there.

Q. As far as you could learn, are these small dams all

along the river and their works subject to being flooded and carried off' by freshets?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. I find an account here of the Mexican dam being carried away a little while ago.

A. That may be so.

Q. You were there only in the dry season?

A. That was all. There is no difficulty about putting up dams there that will stand any pressure that can be brought to bear. Whether they have been so constructed I cannot say.

Q. In regard to the land at the mouth of the tunnel, I want to ask you whether you do not consider it a more desirable locality for the residence of people than Virginia City?

A. I certainly do.

Q. Is there not an abundant space there for the laboring men, where they could own their own cottage and have a little plat of ground to cultivate, and keep a cow, and get some of the comforts of life, which they cannot get at Virginia City ?

A. It is certainly a good position for a mining or mill* ing town?

Q. Would it not improve the condition of these miners, who work only 8 hours and have 16 hours of leisure, if they were so located that they might employ themselves in useful work about home?

A. I cannot answer that question.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Mr. Chairman, I want to make one objection. I don't like to make objections, because I leave them to the committee, generally. I scarcely think it is within the province of Congress to determine upon the desirability of location for miners or anybody else to live? and by congressional legislation to compel a man to reside either in one place or in another. Now, if a man wants to live at Virginia City, it seems to me he ought to be allowed to live there, and that Congress should not appropriate public moneys out of the Treasury to compel them to go 25

down to the mouth of this tunnel. I don't see how that has any bearing upon this question.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, I don't see that it is an objectionable question to ask. Here is a question of making a great improvement in the operation of mining. "We find here that there are some 3,000 or 5,000 ihen employed in the mines and in connection with the mills — probably 10,000, take them all together, the wood-haulers and every one else — and I believe it is a proper thing for Con* gress to find out, in connection with this question of mining, whether the comforts of these masses of people would he improved in comparison with the interests of the owners of a mine, which you can count as a few dozen. The interests of a few proprietors might be one thing, and the interests of the laboring classes might be another. These men have certain rights; and, if I understand aright, Congress represents the whole people of the United States : it don't represent the few men who are owning mines, and probably not working them legitimately, but for stock-jobbing purposes. I believe these laboring men have some rights, and I don't see what objection there can be in answering such questions. This is a general investigation in regard to improving the working of those nlines, and consequently the condition of the men.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't see that a great many of the questions that are asked have any bearing whatever upon the facts, or upon the report under consideration by the committee; but if it is the pleasure of the committee to permit irrelevant questions, why of course I am willing. If the gentleman who put the questions will state the object he had in them I think it would lessen the volume of the testimony.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, the object in asking this question is this : In some previous-testimony which was taken it was stated here that great hardships would accrue to some of the people of Virginia City if the town were removed to the mouth of the tunnel ; and I put this question in regard to the advantages at the mouth of the tun*

nel. I want to bring out these facts in comparison with the difficulties which exist at Virginia City. Our investigation has taken a very wide scope. There is no doubt about it. But there has been a controversy over this matter, Mr. Chairman, for years. Simple facts, patent to the mind of any one, have been disputed ; and they have not only been disputed, but they have been disputed a thousand times after they have been established as correct. This is an investigation by Congress upon this subject, and it is very desirable that these facts should be established and put upon the record. Congress appointed a commission, at least the President appointed commissioners under an act of Congress, to go out there, and they did so. They followed out the instructions of Congress and the law ; but while they were there their investigation took a larger scope, of course. They saw a great many things and knew a great many facts which I desire to establish here, and which have been disputed. I consider it as very desirable to arrive at the truth in regard to these statements, and I should very much like to have the General answer the question.

The CHAIRMAN. It is ver}' evident that the latitude given for examination of a witness in one case invokes it in another. The question is whether your line of interrogatories is confined to the subject-matter of the investigation. As far as I can interpret it, I think not fully. If this information is desired to meet certain objections made, whether in the line of testimony or otherwise, I shall not object to it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have no objection, Mr. Chairman, to any question in the world. I have made several objections, bat I find they haven't had the desired effect. I am willing to do anything that the committee desire. As a matter of fact, everybody that lives out there knows that the Carson river and the Carson valley are the most sickly part of that State, and the most undesirable for a residence or location.

Mr. SUTRO, (repeating the question.) Would it not improve the condition of these miners, who work only 8 hours

a day and have 16 hours of leisure, if they were so located that they might employ themselves in useful work about home? - Mr. WRIGHT. I don't know.

Q. Why, do you think it wouldn't be useful ?

A. I don't say that I don't think it will be useful. I simply say I don't know.

Q. What opportunity have men running about Virginia City to occupy themselves?

A. Much the same that they have in other towns.

Q. Do not many of those miners have families, General ?

A. I so understand it.

Q. Well, if they had. an opportunity of building up a little home down there, do you not think that a great many of those men would-improve it ?

A. That I cannot say. I suppose they have opportunities for building up homes in Virginia City.

Q. Well, is there a possibility of their having a garden, or water to irrigate a garden ?

A. No, they can have no garden at Virginia City.

Q. « Won't they be compelled to live on the side of a hill ?

A. Certainly.

Q. Kind of a roost upon a rock ?

A. Well, some of them are very comfortable.

Q. General, I wish to ask you one more question in regard to the mouth of the tunnel, and that is, whether you believe that it is suitable for gardening — whether the land there is fit for agricultural purposes ?

A. So far as I passed over it, it certainly is, .with a supply of water for irrigation.

Q. Have you seen any gardens at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. I have. There was a very fine garden near the mouth of the tunnel.

Q. Did they raise any good vegetables there ?

A. They certainly did. They were as good as they have in Virginia City — better.

Q. Kow, General, my questions run rather from one point to another, but I cannot help that. I have gone over many points that I didn't wish to'recur to; but there are others that I do. I want to ask you whether the water in the mines could not be carried down in pipes to the tunnel level, and be economized for the purpose of driving hydraulic machinery at the point of connection?

A. It certainly could be done; but whether it could be done economically or not is more than I can say. It depends upon the quantity of water and the constancy of the flow.

Q. I want to ask you, General, whether you know anything about Professor Weissbach?

A. I have heard his name.

Q. Isn't his name familiar to every engineer, as you may say, in the world?

A. I don't know. I cannot say as to that.

Q. Isn't he looked upon as the great authority?

A. He is considered as authority upon many matters.

Q. Well, Professor WVissbach, in a letter addressed to me in October, 1867, states:

" A tunnel which, with a length of about one German mile, opens up rich ore a depth of 2.000 feet, secures to the professional mining engineer the most welcome and surest means of profitable operations, particularly in a country where no cheap fuel exists for the purpose of generating steam power. Such a tunnel removes, firstly, the necessity of using pumping-engines for many years to come. It facilitates and cheapens, secondly, the extraction of ore and waste rock in an extraordinary manner.

" It gives, furthermore, thirdly, many opportunities for additional exploration of the country, and discovery of new bodies of ore. The tunnel" also . fourthly , makas it possible to derive a profit from the great masses of poor ores.

" The connecting and air shafts of the tunnel will, fifthly, secure to the mines perfect ventilation. Finally there will be created, sixthly, a motive power by saving the water on the surface, and conducting it by hydraulic machines, for instance turbines, water pressure, engines, &c., placed in tho mines, which let the water flow off on the tunnel level, after having done its duty, and which not only will entirely remove the necessity of stearn-engines, but also promises the greatest profit, particularly if the supply of water can be made to last the year round.

" With a fall of 2,000 feet, the working power created by one gallon alone, := £ cubic foot=10 pounds water per second, is equal to 20,000 pounds for every foot, that is = -^?-§p- = 36 horse-power. A quantity of wat.er of 50 gallons introduced per second would therefore create a working capacity of 1,800 horse-power.'

Now, I want to ask you, General, do you not consider

the power which may be created on the Comstock lode as very large to propel the pumps that are going down below the tunnel level, taking our figures here of 730 tons a day in the Ophir mine, &c., supposing that water were to be collected, say 800 feet down, and carried down in pipes to the tunnel level?

A. That number of tons, with a. fall of 1,000 feet and a constant flow, would create an enormous power.

Q. Yes, sir. These gentlemen have stated that the largest quantity of water in these mines is in the first 800 feet; consequently you would get an immense power from this water, if it be collected 1,000 feet above the tunnel level?

A. Yes; but that water has been pumped out to a large extent,

Q. But we have the statement here that they have been pumping in the Ophir mine, even last year, 781 tons every 24 hours. Then we have the amount of the Gould and Curry mine, which has a larger quantity of water.

A. In general terms, the power would be equal to the power of raising it that distance.

Q. It would be about the same.

A. Something like it.

Q. Now, wouldn't that give you a power to go below that tunnel, without any steam machinery, to a large extent?

A. It would to a certain portion, undoubtedly, and a Considerable amount of power.

Q. Is it possible to create any such power without a tunnel ?

A. If you mean by the question, whether it is possible to utilize this water in the same way without the tunnel, I would say no. I see no way.

Q. It would be quite impossible, without an outlet to discharge the water ?

A. I should say so, decidedly.

Q. Then the water coming from above would create this power, and it would pump the water below the tunnel level

up to the tunnel level, and discharge it from the mouth of the tunnel?

A. From a certain distance below, it would.

Q. Well, with this water power, and the condensing of air tit the mouth of the tunnel hy the Carson river, to be carried in in pipes, would we not, in your opinion, have sufficient power to carry on operations at least 2.000 feet below the tunnel level ?

A. If they can obtain 86,000 horse-power at the mouth of the tunnel, I think it will furnish all the power in itself that is necessary for going down an additional 1,000 feet.

Q. Now, in condensing air, and discharging that air say at any point in the mine where great heat exists, would it not tend to cool off the atmosphere?

A. Certainly.

Q. Do you know any rule about the heat which is lost in allowing this air to expand again ?

A. Heat that is absorbed — made latent ?

Q. Yes.

A. I forget the law. It is a well-established law.

Q. Cannot the air be condensed to such a point, that when it is allowed to expand it would even congeal water ? Has it not been used, in fact, for the manufacture of ice, or could it not be so used?

A. I see no reason why it could not be used ; and it was used, I think, in France, for that purpose. It isn't the device used in this country. We have another, which is considered superior.

Q. There are probably superior methods; but my question is, whether it will be possible to do it ?

A. I see no impossibility.

Q. Don't you look upon this as solving the problem of working those mines, with th'e immense heat that is supposed to exist below the tunnel level V

A. This same thing can be done, of course, from the surface, but at greater cost.

Q. Wouldn't Hie cost be prohibitory ? Would it be possible, with the enormous cost of wood near the surface, to

carry out fiat project — to condense air on a large scale — in order to cool off those mines below ?

A. That would depend entirely upon the value of the mine and the necessity of doing it.

Q. Supposing that tunnel to be finished, the Jateral drifts finished, and a great number of shafts, say 25 sliafts, connected with the tunnel along the route, which could be constructed very easily, as we have shown ; by putting down bore-holes first, would you not consider that, by connecting all these shafts by drifts, these would in the course of time (say two or three years) reduce the temperature to a very large extent?

A. Yes, I think any constant ventilation tends to the reduction of temperature in the mine.

Q. Well, what do you think would be the capacity of the men to do work with the thermometer say at 105°, as compared with a temperature of 80°?

A. I have no means of making a comparison at all. I only know that men were working there and apparently doing good work, in a temperature that I could with difficulty stand. And these very men assured me that they preferred working there to working upon the surface. I didn't understand it myself.

Q. Do you believe that a man can do as much work with *the thermometer at 110° degrees ashe can with it at 80°?

A. I have no idea that he can.

Q. Do you think he can do half as much ?

A. What the proportion is is more than I can say. I should like to answer the question, but I have no means of judging. They were doing work there that it seemed impossible for men to do.

Q. Don't you think they injured their health?

A. They said, as a rule, not.

Q. Do you think they were long enough there to find out — these men that you spoke of?

A. I suppose so; they were miners by profession.

Q. Do you know anything about the health of those miners ?

A. Only what they said themselves : that they enjoyed good health usually. One of the men, quite an intelligent one, said that in most of the mines the men work through their eight hours without intermission ; hut at some points they are relieved every 15 or 20 minutes, and that 3 men are required at one pick, on account of the heat and bad ventilation. The ventilation, however, is much improved of late by means of pipes, through which the air is forced into and through the mines. He said, the general impression among miners mis, that the bad air, heat, &c., were injurious, but that he had never suffered in health, and was not prepared to say that working in the mines caused disease or shortened life. He did think, however, that with better ventilation and less li^at more work would be done.

Q. There are on the Comstock lode 3,000 miners. They get on an average $4 a day ; that would make $12,000 a day. With an improved method of ventilation, if even 25 per cent, in labor would be saved, it would amount to $3,000 a day ?

Mr. SUNDERLAND. The General has not stated that any per cent, would be saved yet.

Mr. SUTRO. It is my question that I am putting.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. You are taking a basis that we have not assented to. ,

Mr. WRIGHT. I couldn't give the increase of the amount of labor with the reduction of the temperature.

Mr. SUTRO. I want to know whether you consider it a conclusive statement that, provided there is a thorough ventilation brought about in those mines, the gain would be 25 per cent.?

A. I don't know. I have no means of forming an opinion. I should be glad to answer the question, but I cannot. In reference to the Yellow Jacket, the men who were questioned did not seem to think their work worse than on the surface, in the sun, or more detrimental to health. All of them looked strong and hardy. The copious perspiration does not seem to reduce the miners in flesh. I talked

with a good many .miners in that mine, and went about in the mines, and that was the general character of their testimony.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. That was the hottest mine there that you were in?

A. It was the hottest mine there by all comparison.

Mr. SUTRO. My question is, whether the capacity of these men at the lower temperature would not be considerably increased?

A; I should think it would be fhcreased. I don't see how it could be otherwise. Still I am bound to say, in continuation of my answer, that the men seemed to be doing good work whenever we were present — as much as, it seemed to me, could be reasonably expected of men. I was surprised at it.

The CHAIRMAN. General, what is the increase of temperature— the ratio of increase — as you descend ?

A. I believe they calculate it as somewhere near 1° in every 50 or 60 feet. It varies in different mines. I don't remember what it was in this mine. I don't remember what it was at the surface. I went down, and I got into a temperature there of 104°.

Q. At what depth?

A. This was at the 1,100-foot level. But I should remark, that there were no miners at work in that temperature.' This was in a drift that run out. It was a cut de sac, and the heat was in this. At the end there was one of these air-pipes, in which air was forced from the surface, and there the heat was 91°, with a very different atmosphere from what you found perhaps 100 or 200 feet short of it. It didn't seem to be so much the heat as the character of the atmosphere, which was oppressive. Before reaching the heading or by the time I arrived there, I was exceedingly doubtful whether I should be able to get out; but I remained there and talked with a workman for perhaps 15 minutes without inconvenience. Before starting out, however, I put my face up to the end of the air-pipe and inflated my lungs, and I got out very well, but

without that I thiiik it would have been impossible for me to have done it.

Q. Is that increased heat from the earth's temperature or the confinement?

A. The heat is undoubtedly occasioned by the earth's temperature. The sides, top, and bottom of the drift radiated the heat.

Q. In your opinion w.oulcf the ratio of that increase reach such a point in going down that, at a given depth, it would be impossible to work these mines ?

A. At some certain depth a heat will be attained in which it will be impossible to work. In the English mines they appear to have arrived at the limit — which is there about 3,000 feet — in the coal mines. Those same figures might not obtain at the Comstock. It might be greater or less.

Mr. SUTRO. General, will you allow me to read from an English work on mining, which gives some very intelligent views upon ventilation, and I want to ask you in regard to the correctness of them:

" Hitherto, few systematic attempts have been made to supply the mine with the requisite quantity of atmospheric air, and the consequences are seen in the large proportion of fixed air in moiety of the workings. This inattention to a matter of such vital importance to the health of the miner is inexcusable in every respect. A current of atmospheric air is conducted through narrow torturous passages, of several miles in extent, with such' facility and at such trifling expense, that no reason can be adduced why one-half of the miners in Cornwall and Devon should be working in a highly poisonous atmosphere." (Page 94,> Scoffran on the Useful Metals.)

Then he goes on to say, on page 111 :

"It is unnecessary to enter at length into the effect of the variety of exhalations and miasmata proceeding from the putrid fermentations of animal and vegetable matters underground, as they are well known even upon the surface. In these confined channels, where the accumulations exist at every step, the warm, moist atmosphere gives them every facility to produce their direst effects. When it is considered, however, that each workman produces 46 pounds of excrement per month, and that this, neglecting all sanitary laws, is allowed to remain in and about the working places, and in the dead ends, where the air current does not enter, it is evident that a fertile source ^>f miasmata exists, whatever care may be used in covering the deposit.

"The miner has good grounds therefore for demanding a high rate of wages, and he is especially in need of the assistance of benefit societies in his period of trial.''

On another page:

"In pits, with a rapid circulation, men respire more freely; the roadways are kept dry and repaired at less expense; and the timber lasts longer by years, and therefore it is a matter of strict economy to secure a good ventilation. There are few mining engineers who will not subscribe to the justness of the report of 1842: 'That a mine, when properly ventilated and drained, and when both the main and side passages are of tolerable height, is not only not unhealthy, but, the temperature being moderate and very uniform, it is considered as a place of work more salubrious, and even agreeable, than those in which many kinds of labor are carried on above ground.' "

I want to ask you whether the opinions expressed by the writer here meet with your views ?

A. Generally, I should say yes.

Q. It has been mentioned here that timbers last longer by years ?

A. Undoubtedly they last longer in a well-ventilated mine than where the air is close and stagnant. That is undoubted.

Q. It has been stated, in some of these reports, that 16,000,000 feet of lumber or timber are consumed in these mines of the Comstock lode per annum. That in ten years would be 160,000,000 feet. Supposing that timber could be made to last three or four years longer than it does, would that not be a great economy to those mines?

A. Undoubtedly it would be an economy. Every timber that is replaced is a source of expenditure.

Q. You have visited the workings of the Crown Point •and the Yellow Jacket ?

A Yes.

Q. They were connected by drifts ?

A. Yes. . Q. You found good ventilation there ?

A. I found a pretty good ventilation.

Q. How far apart were those two shafts about?

A. I should think 600 feet would be about the distance.

Q. How would you connect the Imperial and the Hale and E"orcross shafts, a distance of some three or four thousand feet ? Would you think it feasible to make a connection at every hundred feet descent without sinking additional shafts between ?

A. I don't think it has ever been proposed.

Q. Well, how would you ventilate the space between the Hale and ^Torcross and the Imperial ?

A. There is no necessity at the present time.

Q. Supposing they wanted to explore it?

A. Then they must explore it by means of a connection between the two, or by additional shafts, or by means of air forced down from the surface.

Q. Would it not be the greatest economy to sink down a deep shaft at least every 1,000 feet?

A. That depends entirely upon the object they have in view — what they are to find.

Q. I mean in order to explore the whole Comstock lode the most thoroughly ?

A. Well, that is a question of economy of working which I could not answer.

Q. Would the working of the mines not be very much facilitated if there were a great number of shafts down and connected with the tunnel?

A. Unquestionably.

Q. Supposing there be a shaft down every 1,000 feet, connected with the tunnel, would it not facilitate ventilation ?

A. It would all help.

Q. I want to ask here, General, whether, from your investigations, you have become satisfied that there are immense bodies of low-grade ores in those mines?

A. The testimony obtained by the commission is in favor of the existence of a very large amount of low-grade ores in the mines, that either have not been mined, or have been thrown aside as useless, or used in fillings.

Q. If large reduction and concentration works were established at the mouth of th*e tunnel, would it be possible to work these ores to advantage ?

A. That was a question upon which the commission was in doubt, as to the possibility of improving this matter of concentration to any degree. It had been represented that very great improvements might be made, in which a very large part of the precious metals, which are now lost, could

be saved ; that this work could be done automatically, and at a comparatively slight expense.

Q. "Would not the actual cost of reduction, as it is practiced now, be a good deal less at the mouth of the tunnel by the employment of large water power and the establishment of works on a large scale ?

A. That would of course depend entirely upon the original outlay for this water power. The power costs nothing after the first outlay.

Q. Could the power be furnished to reduce ores at a less cost, where you do it on a large scale, than in these isolated little mills?

A. I should think so. If this were an original proposition, I should say certainly.

HEARING FRIDAY, MARCH IST. Cross-examination of General Wright.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. General, I think the other evening you named the dimensions of this tunnel, did you not?

Mr. WRIGHT. I think I did. It is given in the report, however.

Q. Yea, you give it at 12 feet in height. (Page 5.)

A. Twelve feet: width of bottom, 14 feet; top, 13 feet.

Q. "Where did you get that from ?

A. We got it from a drawing that was remitted to ns by Mr. Sutro, or by the superintendent, I forget which.

Q. You didn't get it from the act of Congress, or the contract between Sutro and the mining companies?

A. I did not.

Q. Do you know what these contracts were for ?

A. I do not.

Q. I will read you from page 176, article 6, in the contract :

" The dimension of said tunnel 8hall be not less than seven feet in height, in the clear, and eight feet in the clear in width."

Would that size of tunnel have sufficient space for the management of this ore and the transportation of ore and debris?

A. Seven feet in height and eight in width ?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. I should think not. I don't think the present size of the tunnel any too large — the tunnel as now proposed.

Q. Do you know when the shafts upon that tunnel were commenced on the line of the tunnel?

A. I do not. They had not been commenced when the commission left Nevada.

Mr. SUTRO. I can answer that question, Mr. Sunderland. They were commencing on the 27th of December last.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Have you any practical experience in mining or milling, General?

Mr. WRIGHT. I have not.

Q. Do you expect, page 6, you enumerated the advantages of the tunnel, as claimed by Mr. Sutro; first, in the improved ventilation of the mines ?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, to what extent would the ventilation be improved by the tunnel ?

A. It would be improved to exactly the extent to which the column of air moving in the tunnel and passing up through the various shafts would benefit it. It is an extent which cannot be expressed in figures definitely in any way that I can think of. * Q. It's guess-work, is it not, to a great extent ?

A. I don't think that the exact number of cubic feet of air fhat would pass up the mines in a given time can be determined until the tunnel is in working order.

Q. I don't mean to say, General, that I dispute the proposition that the ventilation would be improved, because it will be improved by every opening that you make to the mines from the surface; but the degree, or the percentage of the improvement, if you have arrived at any conclusion, is what I want to get at.

A. I don't think that that can be foretold. It would depend upon the rapidity with which this current passed through the1 tunnel ; and that cannot possibly be determined beforehand.

Q. From your knowledge or information, derived while you were out there, did you arrive ait a conclusion as to whether the mines were better ventilated now than they had been some years ago?

A. We arrived at the conclusion that the ventilation had been materially improved, as is stated in the report.

Q. Is it possible, General, to ventilate new exploring drifts in the mines from the tunnel, unless you use other means aside from the air coming into the tunnel — artificial means for directing the air?

A. It is quite impossible, so far as I know or can imagine.

Q. You were more than once in drifts between the Yellow Jacket and the Crown Point, I suppose?

A. Twice.

Q. What is the movement of the air there?

A. There is quite a strong current, so much so, that they had doors which they could close at will in that drift, to cut off the air.

Q. If there were no doors in that drift, would it be possible to carry a lighted candle there?

A. I should think not.

Q. Did you have any difficulty in carrying a candle through the door when it was open ?

A. I don't remember, but I know of many cases in which I had considerable difficulty in carrying a candle, and I was not able to keep it lighted, except by carrying it in the way I was told it could be best carried.

Q. ISTow, what is the length of the Comstock, as you understand it? I believe you give it at about 22,000 feet?

A. About 22,000 is claimed for it, and I thiqk about 12,000 of it is worked. That is my recollection.

Q. Will the amount of air that could go through that tunnel be sufficient to ventilate the whole of the mine if it were open ?

A. That alone?

Q. Yes.

A. I should think not.

Q. With the heat and the mode of mining there now, how much of a mine is left open at any one time, so as to make it necessary to ventilate it? In other words, when the first floor is worked out on any level and timbered, are the spaces between the timbers or timbering left open or filled up?

A. They are generally closed — filled in.

Q. Ain't that absolutely necessary to prevent the caving or crushing in ?

A. Yes, sir; the object is to prevent caving.

Q. Ain't it necessary?

A. I should suppose it was. 26

Q. What is the largest width of ore, or a space worked out of ore, that you saw there?

A. Well, I didn't measure it.

Q. I believe you stated in your report, or else some of the witnesses have, that they worked 80 feet in the Crown Point?

A. I think it is stated in the report. I don't think there was any width of 80 feet open, according to my recollection. I should say not.

Q. CalPit 60 feet.

A. It must have been something less than that.

Q. Do you think it would be safe in mining out 60 feet to allow the timbers to stand without filling in the space between the timbers?

A. Not for any length of time.

Q. It has been claimed here that, with proper ventilation, the timbers in a mine would last very much longer. When these spaces are filled up, which you say is necessary audc prudent, can there be any ventilation, so as to preserve the timbers?

A. Not those timbers; I don't think it would affect those materially.

Q. Either little or more fresh air would not affect them ?

A. I don't think it would produce any particular effect.

Q.. Well, now, taking the working maps that are in this atlas, is it either possible or desirable to have these all ventilated from the tunnel level to the surface ?

A. It isn't necessary to ventilate all that is represented there at one time at all.

Q. After the level has been worked out?

A. There is no necessity for further ventilation, simply because they don't use it. They fill it up in order to give a permanent support. It is somewhat equivalent to replacing what they have taken out.

Q. Then it is almost an abandoment of each level as it is worked out ?

A. It is an abandonment, as I understand it.

Q. Don't you think that with increased power and larger-sized

blowers than are now employed there, the mines, to the depth of the tunnel level, can be sufficiently ventilated to make the working of men in the mines economical ?

A. I have no doubt, if it is done regardless of expense, ventilation can be made as perfect as can be desired.

Q. How much more would be the expense than at present ?

A. That I cannot say. I should think it would not be very much greater. The superintendents of the mines say it costs scarcely more to ventilate one level than another by means of the blower, so that, in ventilating the same space, according to their statements, the cost would be about the same for each the 1,000-foot and the 2,000-foot level.

Q. You spoke of the degree of heat last night that you found there, particularly in the Yellow Jacket — 104° I think you said ?

A. That was the highest that we found anywhere.

Q. That was in an abandoned cross-cut ?

A. No, sir; it was in a drift on which they were then working — not at the head or breast where the miners were at work, but in that part which had to be traversed, in order to reach the point where they were working.

Q. I was mistaken about the point where you found that degree of heat. You spoke of having gone into a cross-cut at right angles with the drift, where the air was oppressive, did you not?

A. No, sir. 9

Q. Where the men were at work the thermometer was about 91° or 92°, you say?

A. It was over 90°, I think. It was 91°.

Q. What month in the year where you there?

A. We visited that particular mine on the 17th of July, 1871.

Q. That was supposed to be about the hottest season, was it not?

A. I should suppose it would have been.

Q. Now, as this air is taken down from the surface,

would it be very much warmer at that season than in the winter, when the air on the surface is cold?

A, I don't think the air at that particular point would change in temperature during the year. It might a degree or two.

Q. Suppose the cold air is taken from the surface down through that pipe?

A. The air was very stagnant, and it remained so for a long time. There was no current, and the heat which was shown by the air was no doubt communicated to it by the heat of the earth from the sides, top, and bottom of the drift.

Q. Was not the air warm at the mouth of the pipe, where you inhaled it?

A. I didn't try the temperature at that point, but it seemed to me to be cold.

Q. Cool compared to that which surrounded it?

A. Yes. Of course I could only judge by comparison, but it seemed to be cool.

Q. Was there any inconvenience, so far as you could see, in working, from the height of the thermometer at that point where this fresh air was coming in?

A. There didn't seem to be, so far as the men were concerned.

Q. Did they, or did they not, complain of the heat?

A. They did not.

Q. I believe you said they told you they preferred working there to working on the surface ?

A. It was not these particular men, but it was in another portion which seemed to me to be nearly as hot, although I did not take the temperature at this second point.

Q. Of what advantage for ventilation can the tunnel be below the tunnel level ?

A. I don't see that it could be of much on the natural ventilation.

Q. It ain't likely that the air, if the air should come in from the mouth of the tunnel, would descend into the workings below the tunnel level ?

A. Not if it were allowed to go to the surface ; I should think not.

Q. Now, of what advantage to the Sierra Nevada can the tunnel be in the way of ventilation?

A. It could be so arranged, if desired, as to carry all the ventilation of the tunnel to any one mine.

Q. Isn't the Sierra Nevada working? I am talking now about the Sierra Nevada.

A. In its present condition?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Then I might change my answer.

Q. And as low down as they found any ore?

A. I didn't go into the Sierra Nevada at all, inasmuch as they were working near the surface, as represented. How far it had gone down I do not remember.

Q. They are working there through a short tunnel, are they not?

A. I think they are.

Q. Running the ore out above the top of the mill?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Ain't that likely to give them all the ventilation they want ?

A. It is all the ventilation they need at that level, or above. If they go lower they would have. to establish other means of ventilation.

Q. The report of Mr. King, though, is to the effect that they have not found anything below to pay for working ?

A. That I don't know anything about.

Q. You didn't go into the mine at all ?

A. Didn't go in at all.

Q. You went into the Chollar mine ?

A. Yes.

Q. More than once ?

A. Only pnce.

Q. Do you know how deep they are working there ? I have lost my last report, or I would show it to you. I had it here, but it is^gone.

A. I have it down; none were more than 200 feet below the surface at the time we were there.

Q. How is that mine ventilated at present?

A. I believe by blowers, but I am not certain.

Q. Ain't there a tunnel running in there, through which part of the ore is taken right out without going up the shaft at all?

A. There is.

Q. Ain't there a great deal of the ore taken almost from the surface, or very near the surface?

A. I so understand it.

Q. You went into the Gould and Curry?

A. I did.

Q. On page 8 of the last report the superintendent says, that

"During the year two compartments of the shaft have been sunk 294 feet, making the entire depth 1,485 feet, or measuring from station A, at croppings, 1,685 feet."

That is nearly 300 feet in the year. Suppose the shaft to be sunk at that rate, how long will it take to attain to the depth of the tunnel level?

A. Less than one year.

Q. Do you know how deep the Savage is ?

A. I do not remember how deep it is.

Q. I had a paper here the other evening stating that they had 50 feet to go to get down to the 1,500-foot level. It is a description of the mine and the present workings, given by a reporter of the TERRITORIAL ENTERPRISE. Do you know how far below station A the top of the Savage mine is?

A. I remember none of those numbers at all.

Q. Here are the figures.

A. Down 213 feet.

Q. But you have to go very far then, to be at the tunnel level?

A. It would be 1,700 feet and something.

Q. About 1,900 feet is the tunnel level, you state in your report?

A. It is 1,900 and something.

Q. No, it is a fraction under. It is only a foot or two.

A. Well, then, less than 1,700 feet, or about 1,700 feet.

Q. I believe the question is, how far will the shaft have to go still, in order to reach the tunnel level?

A. That depends upon its present depth.

Q. That is 1,450 feet.

A. If we assume it is now down 1,450 feet.

Q. The exact depth of the tunnel level is 1,898 J feet.

A. It would be 237 feet.

Q. Do you know how deep the Crown Point is ?

A. According to my recollection, it was 1,300 odd feet when we were there.

Q. In this connection I will just get you to look there, General, and see how much that is below, and see how much further that has to go, in order to attain to the tunnel level ?

A. That would make it 117 feet.

Mr. SUTRO. I would agree here, Mr. Sunderland, that we will admit that some of these shafts will reach down to the tunnel level. It's no use to go into all these figures. We'll admit that. You went all over this once with Dr. Newcomb.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I wanted to lay the foundation for a question as to whether it is probable, in your opinion, that these main shafts on the Comstoek will be at or below the tunnel level before the tunnel can reach the vein ?

A. Those in which they are now working generally will. The Ophir, at their rate of progress, will not. The Gould and Curry and the Crown Point, at their present rate of progress, will be at the tunnel level before the tunnel reaches it probably.

Q. The Gould and Carry, the Savage, the Hale and ITorcross, the Belcher, the Yellow Jacket, the Imperial

A. I don't know about the Imperial. They had stopped work on the Imperial when we were there.

Q. That is really deeper than any of them from the top of the shrift.

A. I don't think it is quite as deep as the other, and they had suspended work when we were there.

Mr. KENDALL. Will the construction of the tunnel make the work of mining at depth easier, more profitable, than it would be without the tunnel?

A. "We made our calculations about the depth of the tunnel and stopped there, and to that point, under certain conditions, we thought that it was more profitable to work from the surface; that is, unless reduction works were, established at its mouth and worked by water power. As to getting to a very much greater depth, I could not positively state, but my opinion would be in favor of the economy of working by the tunnel after you get 2,500 feet, say from the surface, from the initial point.

Q. That is 500 feet below the tunnel level?

A. About 500 ; perhaps less.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I understand you to say in your report, and you have intimated the same here, that the value of the tunnel depends upon the practicability of getting a sufficient water power at the mouth of the tunnel to reduce all the ore from the Comstock, and then to introduce machinery for concentrating the ore, so as to work it more cheaply. Suppose there should be a failure in ore in either, will the tunnel be then of any special value to the Comstock?

A. The commission have stated in their report that, in case both tfoese should not be secured, our opinion would be in faver of continuing the work after the present mode.

Q. Do you know anything about this machinery for concentrating gold and silver ores?

A. I do not personally. '

Q. Do you know what it would cost to work ores by that mode?

A. I have no idea further than was explained in the report and statements from different individuals, and from articles in certain papers, mining and other journals.

Q. Do you know what goes to make up the cost of reduction of ores now on the Comstock?

A. ^Not entirely., There is the cost of milling.

Q. I am jtalking now about the cost of milling — the reduction of the ores after they are delivered at the mill.

A. First, there is the crushing, then the stamping and the use of the quicksilver ; the quicksilver is used, and a part of it is lost.

Q. Do you know about what the loss of quicksilver is per ton ?

A. I have it somewhere in my notes.

Q. It is about 1J pounds on the average, is it not; perhaps a little less ?

A. I think it is a little less, but I don't carry these things in my mind.

Q. It depends upon the grade of the ores, very much. Poor grade ones don't cost so much.

A. I have down for the Occidental mill the loss of the quicksilver about 1 J pounds per ton of ore.

Q. Do you know what quicksilver is worth ?

A. It is stated at about 80 cents per pound.

Q. That would be at a loss of $1 20 per ton.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know what labor is in the mills?

A. I am not positive, but I think about $3 50 a day, a little less than in the mines. However, these are all details that I did not look into. It was not considered as a part of our investigation in any way. Questions were asked more for general information than anything else.

Q. Mr. King gives the average at $4 50. That takes in the superintendents, engineers, and all.

A. I don't know what the average would be at all.

Q. The amalgamator and the skilled labor

A. I couldn't tell you what the average would be.

Q. Are not all-1 the materials used " in and about a mill much higher there than they would be on this coast or in Germany ?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. The machinery of every kind?

A. Undoubtedly. Cost of transportation and everything.

Q. Do you know that portion of a mill that wears out most rapidly and has to be replaced ?

A. I do'not.

Q. Do you know anything about the wearing out of shoes and dies of the stamps?

A. I should think they would be the parts that would wear out oftenest.

Q. Do you know how often they have to be replaced?

A. I do not.

Q. Do you know the cost per pound of shoes and dies ?

A. I haven't the slightest idea.

Q. Do you know whether it is practicable to obtain the water power in the Carson river, so as to divert it and take it to the rnouth of the tunnel?

A. I can only state exactly what is given by the commission in its report. I can read that if you desire.

Q. Well, I expect the members of the committee have read that. I don't know that it is worth while to repeat it. Do you know whether or not all the water power in the Carson river, from the first fall in the valley to the last fall at Dayton, is not now private property ?

A. I so understand it.

Q. That property is owned generally, is it not, by parties interested in the Comstock?

A. A part of it certainly is. The Crown Point owns two mills tbere, I think.

Q. Do you know of any mills on the Carson river anywhere that are not owned by parties who are largely interested in the Comstock and who oppose the Sutro tunnel?

A. Some of these mills are owned by what is termed the Union Mill and Mining Company. What parties constitute the Union Mining Company I do not know. I know one of the individuals, and only one, and I suppose that he is largely interested (he is reported to be) in the mines themselves.

Q. Do you think it probable that the owners of these

water-rights upon the Carson river would surrender them, in order to take the water out and lead it to the mouth of the tunnel?

A. If it paid sufficiently for it, I think they would. .

Q. Did you make any estimate of the value of the water-rights and the mill property upon the Carson river?

A. I don't know that I could call it an estimate. We obtained it from Mr. Sharon, who was represented to us as having more to do with the Union Mill and Mining Company than any other individual. ^ He was the president of the company, I believe.

Q. He isn't an officer in the company at all, but still he has more to say about it than anybody else.

A. I supposed from what he said that he was president; but I don't know. We obtained from him his valuation of the mills. I didn't consider it of much importance, but we took it down.

Q. Did you visit the Eureka mill, in process of construction, while you were there?

A. It had not been commenced when we left. They were proposing to build it, unless I have confounded the name.

Q. Do you remember the Santiago mill?

A. I do.

Q. It was the first mill below that. There were two mills on the same mill site. I suppose they had commenced work when you were there. Indeed, I am quite positive of it.

A. The mills, as we had them, down, as obtained by the commission, were, first, the Mexican, owned by Jones and Hayward; second, the Carson, just west of Carson, near the wood-flume belonging to the Union Mill and Mining Company ; the Yellow Jacket, below the Mexican, Jones and Hayward; the Brunswick, below the Mexican, also Jones and Hayward ; the Merrimack, belo\v the Brunswick— the owners not given ; the Eureka, about ten miles from Virginia City, owned by the Union Mill Company; the Vivian, below the Merrimack, owned by Sharon and

A. E. Head ;' the Santiago, ten miles from Virginia, by the Union Mill and Mining Company ; the San Francisco — we have no items in connection^ with that.

• Q. "Well, that is abandoned. It's where this new mill is being built.

A. There's the Franklin, leased by Louis Janin; the Ophir, west of Birdsall's — no owner's name given ; Bird-sail's, which is a tailings mill, west of Dayton ; Gammons, in Dayton, and the Rocky Point mill, one mile from Dayton, belong to the Union Mil.1 and Mining Company, leased to the Crown Point Mining Company. . *

Q. Would not the construction of the proposed dam destroy all this mill property on the Carson?

A. All, probably, down to the Franklin mill ; the most of the mills it would.

Q. If you take all the water power of the Carson river, of what value would any mill be .below where the water is brought back again ?

A- Nothing, except that they might retain their right to draw the water from the. reservoir.

Q. I understand your proposition is to take all the water out of the Carson river and take it to the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. Lead it to the mouth of the tunnel, or as much of it as is necessary.

Q. That is below all other mills, is it not?

A. No.

Q. What mill is below ?

A. The proposition was to put the dam somewhere near the Franklin, or above.

Q. But you take all the water out of the Carson river, don't you ?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. Now you take it to a point below th^e Rocky Point mill, which is the lowest mill on the river, and that is above the mouth of the tunnel ?

A, Undoubtedly.

Q. Now, I ask you of what value could that mill property

be anywhere on the Carson river, if you take all the water out of the Carson river ?

A. The water could be taken from this race for those mills, undoubtedly. The water will be carried about three miles, and they could draw oft* any portion of the supply that they would be permitted to do.

Q. Then of what benefit would the tunnel be to those mills, if they are to be run as they are now ?

A. I don't think it would be any.

Q. Of what benefit would the tunnel be to the Comstock, if all the mills on the river are to be run as they are now, or by taking water from this race that you speak of?

A. None, except that these mills would be a substitute for mills of the same capacity at the mouth of the1 tunnel. However, the idea would of course be to obtain all these rights.

Q. I understand your proposition to be, to reduce all the ore at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. That is our proposition.

Q. Well, that would destroy all the mill property on ther Carson river, would it not?

A. Yes, this dam would destroy all the mills now above it.

Q. Would it destroy the Mexican mill ?

A. I think it would. It would have no fall : that would depend, of course,, on how high they dam up the water.

Q. Well, commencing at that Mexican mill, what amount of ground is there attached to it for the purpose of saving tailings and slime?

A. As I recollect it, there is a considerable amount of ground about it.

Q. Several hundred acres, ain't there?

A. I should think so.

Q. Is there any practical obstacle in the way of attaching to that mill machinery for concentrating and working the ore at the mill, instead of at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. None whatever, excepting the want of water.

Q. Would there be any more water at the mouth of the tunnel than there is at the Mexican mill ?

A. Undoubtedly.

Q. How so ?

A. Because a considerable of the surplus that now passes over the Mexican dam at high stages of the stream would be retained, and held and used according to the necessities of the mills. At the time we were there, a portion of the Mexican mill was hung up for want of power.

Q. Yes, sir; the greater portion.

A. At other seasons of the year there is a very large surplus of water. The object of the reservoir spoken of is to store up this surplus of the. wet season for use in the dry.

Q. When you were there, did you hear anything about a project of constructing dams to form reservoirs in the mountains in a number of places on the head-waters of the Carson, for preserving the water there until the dry season came on ? ' A. I did not.

Q. What do you think of the feasibility of that?

A. I never examined the country, and therefore I couldn't give any answer which would have any value whatever. If the valleys lend themselves favorably, of course it could be done.

Q. Wouldn't it be more favorable to preserve the water in reservoirs on the mountains than in the valley, supposing the formation of the ground to be such that you can make reservoirs there ?

A. That is a question that it is impossible to answer without an examination of the grounds. It certainly is possible.

Q. Wouldn't it be much colder up there ?

A. I have no doubt it would be colder.

Q. What is the great cause of evaporation in the Carson valley ?

A. It is the dryness of the atmosphere.

Q. The heat of the sun is very great there, isn't it?

A. Undoubtedly ; but it is more than tbat. According to my view, all the water of the Carson is absorbed by evaporation finally; that which runs down the stream and forms the lake — the river of the Carson; it becomes dry, or nearly so, in the dry season.

Q. And it is evaporation ?

A. I think it is entirely evaporation.

Q. Wouldn't there be very great evaporation in this large reservoir that you propose to form with this high dam ?

A. There undoubtedly would be, but not as much

Q. Have you made any estimate, General, as to the amount of water that would be required at the mouth of the tunnel to reduce all this ore — these concentrators and this other machinery necessary to reduce ore in that way — and compared it with the amount of water retained in that reservoir, and do you know how long it would last?

A. 2To, I haven't, for I have no means of knowing how large that reservoir would be, excepting the report made by the Surveyor General of Nevada, which I should judge, from my own observations, was very far below the fact.

Q. Well, either from that report, or from your own observations there, how long do you think the quantity of water it is possible to collect in that reservoir would last, consuming what would be necessary to reduce all the ore of the Comstock at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. I think it would last through the whole season.

Q. If the reservoir, then, would contain sufncient water to run the mills necessary for the reduction of the ores on the Comstock, at the mouth of the tunnel, couldn't the same amount of water be retained in the mountains at the* headwaters by the construction of a number of dams there ?

A. It is, undoubtedly, possible.

Q. Is it not cheaper to retain the same amount of water there, if the ground is farmable, for the construction of these dams, than to build one immense dam ?

A. That is a question which it is impossible to answer

positively. Where the commission supposed this dam would be was a narrow gorge, where the darn would have an inconsiderable length.

Q. I don't know whether I am sufficiently acquainted with dams to know whether you were up or down the river, or across the river.

A. Across the river.

Q. What length would that have?

A. It is stated by the Surveyor General, that at the point which he selected and nfeasured, the length at the top was 837 feet.

Q. And 155 feet in height?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that from the bed of the stream ?

A. That is from the bed of the stream.

Q. Do you know anything about the bed of the stream — wLut it :c composed of — at that point ?

A. I do not, at that point.

Q. Do you know whether it is rock or quicksand ?

A. The bed along that portion of the stream is generally rocky, and I presume that rock would be found immediately below the surface.

Q. Do you know what has been formed in the bed of other streams where dams have been constructed ?

A. I do not.

Q. Were they reconstructing the Brunswick dam while you were there?

A. I saw nothing of the kind passing up and down the river.

Q. To construct that dam 155 feet high from the bed of the river, and going as deep as it may be to get to the bedrock, as we call it, what depth of foundation would it be necessary to have ?

A. That would be a matter of calculation. I never have made it.

Q. What pitch do you give to a clam of that height?

A. That is a good deal a matter of choice. I wouid make the slope towards the water a gentle one.

Q. Say 45°?

A. Probably so. I don't know whether it is worth while to go into the fall explanation of the thing. You <;an give it, of course, any shape you please, and the different dimensions will vary as compared with each other. If you give it a less base, we must make it thicker at the top, and its particular outline — cross-section — will depend entirely upon the question of economy.

Q. Of what material is it proposed to build that dam?

A. Generally of rock, I think, obtained from the hills immediately on either side.

Q. So the proposition is to build it of mason work?

A. Not of masonry, but of rock, and to put a facing on the interior, which shall be water-tight or measureably so.

Q. How do you make a facing that will be water-tight, if yon don't lay mason work?

A. We can lay a thin skin of any masonry, or it will be possible, in that part of the country, to build it of timber. It is fresh water, not subject to attack from worms, and as the facing would be always covered with water, it would last an indefinite period.

Q. What is the formation on either side of the river there?

A. It is generally volcanic rock, of a character similar, in general terms, to that found on the line of the tunnel.

Q. Have you. examined the estimate made by General Day, or made any of your own, as to the cost of that dam ?

A. I have not examined the estimate of General Day at all. We made an estimate before the report of G-eneral Day was received, in which we assumed a certain width across, which was considerably greater than is given in his report What the cost was I do not remember, but my impression is somewhere about $400,000. But the dam had considerably greater length.

Q. What is his estimate?

A. His estimate is $200,000.

Mr. SHOBBR. General, how far above the mouth of the tunnel is it proposed to construct this dam ? 27

Mr. SUNDERLAND. About five miles or so, I think.

Mr. WRIGHT. About 5 J in its windings. I should think the Franklin mill is somewhere in the neighborhood of it.

Mr. SUTRO. The windings give it 5J miles. Would you consider the figures given by Captain Day for his length of the dam too low?

Mr. WRIGHT. That I could not tell without figuring it.

Mr. SUTRO. He states it at $200,000, I think.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. What do you think of his estimate of the cost of building a race or flume or canal?

Mr. WRIGHT. His estimate is $50,000 per mile. It depends upon the ground entirely. The larger part of it could be built for very much less than that sum.

Q. Is the nature of the ground such there that you could make a canal at all?

A. I think so. In a large part of it you certainly can very readily, as readily as they build the present flumes to their mills. It only requires a wide, deeper cross-section, that is all. It would be like their ordinary mill flumes enlarged in width and depth.

Q. Well, the flume is understood to be constructed of timbers and planks?

A. We used the term in its general sense of a leader of water from a stream or a dam to a mill.

Q. Whether it would be practicable to build any conduit for this water in the earth without planking; that is what I want to get at.

A. An open canal certainly can be made there. It would have to be carried across either by an embankment over any ravines, or in a timber flume, as is practised there now for the single mills.

Q. Then I understand you to say that the success of this tunnel, as a practical benefit to the Comstock, depends upon your getting this water, and then concentrating ores at the mouth of the cunnel, so as to reduce the expense?

A. You have got to do both of those things. That was our conclusion.

Q. Would the tunnel practically be a failure, then, so far as the Comstock is concerned, without getting both ?

A. As a measure of economy, it would, until a certain depth is attained.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question right here, if Mr. Sunderland has no objection. •

Mr. SUNDERLAND. I have none.

Mr. SUTRO. General Wright, I would ask you whether your figures upon the comparative cost of working as they do at present, and by means of the tunnel, is not furnished upon the estimates of the superintendents of the Comstock lode?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Supposing these figures are altogether incorrect, would that not alter your calcultions in regard to it?

A. Unquestionably. They are based entirely upon the correctness of the figures as given in our report.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. With the same amount of water, or the same amount of power in the Carson river, could not the ores be reduced at the mills where they are now built^ adding to them the machinery for concentration, as cheaply as at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. Before answering that question, I would like to know what is meant by the same amount of power ?

Q. The same amount of power that you propose to get at the mouth of the tunnel.

A. I should think that the cost of concentration and reduction would not differ materially if they could command the same amount of power, but that would involve the transportation of the ore to these mills.

Q. I am talking now about the reduction of the ore after delivered at the mills.

A. Very well. That is the answer to the question.

Q. Now you have mentioned the cost; do you know the charges for the transportation of the ore through the tunnel ?

A. The tunnel company are authorized to charge 25 cents per ton of ore.

Q. What, for waste rock or debris ?

A. The same.

Q. What proportion of debris is there to the ore taken out of the Corastock?

A. That we stated could not be stated with any degree of certainty.-

Q. There is a very large amount, is there not?

A. Yes; there is a large amount.

Q. Probably equal to the ore sent to the mills?

A. One of the superintendents, in his report, has stated that it equals or exceeds, but the'exact proportion I could not give.

Q. Then the transporting of ore or debris through the tunnel would be about $2 50 a ton on the ore ?

A. The cost of transportation we have taken at $1 25; but if you have as much debris, it would be $1 25 more; and, if that is all charged to the ore, that would be $2 50, of course.

Q. Now, do you know what the average of cost of transportation is from the Comstock to the mills?

A. After it is raised to the surface, I understand, by the railroad it is $2 a ton; to some of the nearer mills it is less. It is given to us, I think, at from 75 cents to $2, but to the mills on the Carson I understand it is $2 per ton.

Q. About the economy of reduction of ores by water power and machinery for concentration, do you know what it can be reduced for at the mouth of the tunnel? ; A. I do not.

Q. You don't know?

A. No.

Q. You don't know what it costs the mills now on the Carson river to reduce ore, do you ?

A. I don't think anybody but the mill-owners know what it costs .them and what their profits are. They pay the $2 a ton for transportation. They get $12 for milling, I believe, as a rule, of which $2 goes for the transportation of the ore from the dumps after it has been raised to

the surface. For milling they get $10. What their profits are I do not know.

Mr. SUTRO. I would like to know whether this is to he a cross-examination, or whether there is new subject-matter to he brought in by Mr. Sunderland. If that is the case I shall insist upon a re-cross-examination.

Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Sunderland can pursue his own course, but if he introduces new matter, you of course can be permitted to cross-examine in reference to it.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. It is simply a question of whether Mr. Sutro has all the rights and I have none. You have stated, General, in your report, that the mills charge $12 for transportation and reduction?

Mr. WRIGHT. The mills on the Carson do.

Q. Do your know whether that is the rule with all the mills?

A. It is stated in the reports of superintendents that other prices are paid in certain cases.

Q. Above or below that ?

A. None above, so far as I know.

Q. Did you or not learn, while you were there, that ore had been reduced at an expense of $8 to $9 a ton to the mine? Did you hear anything about it?

A. You are asking me questions of things which I really don't know anything about. The superintendent of the Savage mine states in his report;

" The cost of milling ore has been, for the last year, $9 95 per ton, average. This includes transportation, which goats from 75 cents to $3 per ton, according to the distance."

The Hale and RTorcross superintendent reports that

" This company has paid from $9 to $12 for milling its ore. The mills pay their own transportation, which is from 65 cents to $1 10 per ton."

The Chollar Potosi, I think, paid $12 all the way through. The superintendent of the Imperial and Empire mines reports that the milling was done at the company mill, at a cost of $7 90, including hauling, which is 45 cents per ton.

Q. Now, General, in forming an -estinlate of the economy and advisability of reducing ores at the mouth of the tun-

-3T

nel, would it have been very important to ascertain what it now costs to reduce ore on the Carson river ?

A. I have no doubt it would, if it were possible to do so.

Q. Wouldn't it have been very easy to ascertain what it did cost?

A. I think not.

Q. Did you ask for any information of anybody there about the cost of milling or mining that you did not get ?

A. I cannot say that we did.

Q. You didn't ask any mill-owner what it cost him to reduce ore on the Carson river, did you ?

A. I did not.

Q. Do you think that the charge made by the mill-owners to the mining company is a fair basis for the expense of reducing the ores, and therefore to inake a comparison between the present cost of milling and what the cost would be if the ores were reduced at the mouth of the tunnel?

A. Our comparison was not made on any such basis. It was made upon the basis of cheaper milling and concentrating where a sufficiency of power could be commanded at all times. This was made, of course, in connection with the other advantages or disadvantages of the use of the tunnel, as compared with the present mode of mining.

Q. Then, as I understand you, the great advantage, so far as the removing of the mills is concerned to the mouth of the tunnel, is in the saving and economizing of the water in an immense reservoir, and retaining it there until the dry season comes off'?

A. It is that in part, and it is in part in having your mills at the point at which the ore is delivered at the surface.

Q. But if the transportation of the ore through the tunnel costs the sum that you have mentioned, is it any cheaper to go through the tunnel than it is to transport it on the railroad.

A. Well, I cannot answer it any better than to give the

figures in the report. They state the matured views of the commission, and, I helieve, each member of the commission, after undergoing patient investigation, and after all these points were familiar to all of us.

Q. If you add to the expense of the transportation of the ore through the tunnel that of transportation of debris and timber, lumber and miners, would it be any economy to work through the tunnel, rather than to pay the transportation on the ore to the Carson river and the mills where they now exist ?

A. I cannot answer that any better than it is answered in the report. There are certain matters of expense, as, for instance, that of debris, which it is impossible to submit to positive calculation. As we have stated in our report, the amount of debris varies in the different mines, and in the same mines under different circumstances. "When miners are working on a bonanza the amount of debris is inconsiderable ; where they are prospecting it is all debris, and it would be very easy to say that the amount of debris in all the mines is equal to that of all the ore taken out in a year, or that it is twice as much, or three times as much, or a quarter as much; and I .am no more willing to give one of those numbers than another.

Q. Now, General, I believe we have talked about ventilation as much as I want to. I will ask you about the matter of drainage. Supposing these main shafts, in all the principal min.es on the Comstock, should be below the tunnel level before the tunnel reaches the Comstock, 'of what considerable advantage will the tunnel be in the way of drainage?

A. It will save the raising of water an average of perhaps some 1,650 or 1,700 feet, depending upon the level of the tops of their shafts.

Q. The value of that water, when raised to the surface, will be so much loss to the mining companies?

A. I should presume so; but it would be used by the reduction mills at the month for the very purpose it is used for now, as I understand it, to some extent.

Q. I am glad you mentioned that, I want to ask you now of what value would the water be in the Comstock that would be drained by the tunnel? Where could it be utilized, and for what purpose?

A. It could be used at the mouth of the tunnel for power, or for the various purposes for which it is necessary in the reduction and concentrating mills. .

Q. Something has been said during this examination about the use of this water, found in the ledge at the tunnel level, for compressing air for motive power generally. Is the supply of water on the Comstock so regular or certain, as that it can be made of any practical use on that level for any such purpose?

A. That question cannot be answered positively. It would be subject to great fluctuations undoubtedly, and there would be that objection to its use; but that it might be used as a supplement to other power is of course possible; whether it would be economical or not is, of course, a matter that cannot be determined now or here.

Q. If you use water power or any other power for compressing air to be used on the tunnel level, you want that supply of power to be regular, don't you? Must it not necessarily be so ?

A. It would be much better to be regular; and it might be so irregular as to make it not' worth while to use it at that point, but to allow it to flow out at the mouth of the tunnel and use it there. That would be a question of dollars and cents.

Q. Well, there is no doubt it could be used at the mouth of the tunnel economically, but would you rely upon it as of any value for use in the mines ?

A. That, as 1 said before, is impossible to say. It could not be relied upon as the only power for use in the mines, and it would be a simple question of dollars and cents whether it should be used there at all or not. If it can be used economically, they will use it; if it cannot, they won't. The. amount of water can only be determined after they have reached the tunnel level.

Q. I believe you have stated, General, in yo\ir report, that the water decreased as you attain depth on the lode?

A. That seems to be the general opinion, and I have not the slightest doubt of it, in my own mind, from what I saw and learned there.

Q. Now, in the Sierra Nevada and Chollar, both of which I mentioned before on the question of ventilation, is there any water to be pumped or drained that would make the tunnel any benefit to them as they are now working?

A. None whatever, so far as I know. Certainly not in the Chollar; I believe not in the other.

Q. Where does this low-grade ore exist, so for as you know or are informed ? You have spoken of large bodies of low-grade ore. I mean where is it — near the surface, or on the lower level ?

A. Generally it is at what may be considered the upper level. It is not at the deep levels.

Q. Those levels are now drained, are they not?

A. ' So far as they have been yet worked, they are.

Q. There is no water there any longer to interfere with the working ?

A. I saw none of any moment.

Q. Then, could the tunnel be of any benefit to the mines in the mining and extraction of these low-grade ores ?

A. In many instances this low-grade ore has been already mined, and has been used for filling. So far as that is concerned, the tunnel will be of no use for drainage ; but there are some portions, as I understand, that have not been mined at all, or have been passed over as not now worth the mining; but in the process of mining these, pockets may be struck, and a Targe amount of water let into the mines.

Q. Do you know how long the Chollar Potosi.has been mined without pumping?

A. It is stated, I think, by the superintendent in the report. I would prefer to refer to that, rather than to give my own memory.

Mr. SUTRO. It is not disputed at all that there is no

water in the upper levels. It all finds its way to the bottom. There couldn't be any water here. It goes down to the bottom of the shaft.

Mr. WRIGHT. His answer in reference to the cost of pumping is, that for two years last this mine has been entirely exempted from pumping.

Mr. SUNDERLAND. Now, is there any water in that mine where it is being worked ?

A. JSTone of any moment.

Q. No water pumped out of the shaft?

A. No pumping at all.

Q. Then, if you were to stop work on all the mines on the Comstock, would the water rise to these upper levels, where the low-grade ore is found ?

A. That I cannot say. I should suppose after a very long time it might.

Q. It hasn't risen for two years in the Chollar mine?

A. It has not.

Q. Did you hear anything when you were there about a project of bringing water in from the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevadas?

A. I did not; or perhaps I should in answer to that say, that Mr. Sharon spoke of bringing water from someplace — which, as I understand, was the Washoe lake — by means of pipes.

Q. The proposition is, to bring water from different lakes and from a stream which is called Franktown creek, by means of a reservoir on the eastern slope of the Sierras, considerably above the leve* of Virginia City, in an inverted siphon ?

A. Oh, there was a project for bringing water to Virginia City.

Q. That is what I am talking about. Suppose that water to be brought in there now, could not the water be used for the compressing of air and sending it down the different shafts to any levels, and then be used afterwards at the different hoisting works, by the two towns of Virginia City and Gold Hill and by the mills in the neighborhood ?

A. You couldn't use it but once on the same level.

Q. I was talking about using it as power on tbe surface?

A. Yes.

Q. Then saving the water and using it for these other purposes ?

A. It would, so far as it would go, of course.

Q. Supposing you bring it on Mount Davidson, 200 feet above the different shafts ?

A. But you don't want to bring it up there. It depends upon what height you bring It from. In bringing it over, they will undoubtedly bring it over the lowest point they can that is higher than the town; and they get then the pressure of the water from the head from which it comes; but, by going over a greater height, you get no more pressure. The pressure depends upon the difference in the levels of the entrance of the water and its delivery, when carried in pipes.

Q. I am supposing now, General, that it will be brought in there and emptied in a reservoir on the side of Mount Davidson, and'then be used as a power to compress air and send it down the different shafts. It don't use up the water again, but it may still be retained at a sufficient height to use it for the different hoisting works and for the two towns. Is that practicable?

A. My answer would be a snap judgment entirely. I should not suppose it would be, in an economical point of view, to bring water in that way in pipes, and in sufficient quantity to fill a reservoir, to supply all thosie wants.

Q. Is there any cost in bringing the water after the first construction of the works?

A. None whatever but keeping them in order.

Q. Do you know the estimated cost of bringing that water in ?

A. I do not remember. It was stated by somebody there, but I have forgotten entirely what the estimate was. I know it was further spoken of as a project that probably would not be carried out, but whether that would be so or

not I do not know. It was that it would not be carried out on account of the cost.

Q. Did you hear $400,000 or $500,000 mentioned as the cost ?

A. I don't remember. I should think it was a good deal more than that. The water was to be brought for the use of the town, as I understand it, simply to supplement their present supply.

Q. What is the water used for there now, generally?

A. For all the purposes of life.

Q. It supplies all the hoisting works, don't it ?

A. No, sir ; not all.

Q. What hoisting works are now without it?

A. They use what they pump out, in part.

Q. Do you know how many steam mills are run by that water ?

A. I haven't the slightest idea.

Q. Ain't those in Seven Mile canon under that "Water company ?

A. I suppose they must get their supply from that Water company, except what they get from pumping and what they purchase from other mills. Some of these mines produce more water than they can use, and they can sell it out to other mills.

Q. Don't that Water company run all the mills now in the ca|ion, from Gold Hill down to the lower end of Silver City?

A. I don't know. Most of them were not running at all when I was there.

Q. Don't you think it practical, General, to place engines, to be operated with compressed air, at a depth of 2,000 or 2,500 feet below the surface ?

A. Undoubtedly. Your receiver is there ; your power is manufactured at the surface, and forced down into these shafts.

Q. Wouldn't that afford ample air for ventilation in the mines where it is necessary to have it ?

A. It would, undoubtedly.

Q. How much, farther, then, could you get?

A. As far down as man can go.

Q. That is a little uncertain, I suppose ?

A. I believe so.

Q. Did you state, General, what per cent, would be gained in the ability of men to work if the vein were improved beyond what it now is ?

A. I did not.

Q. I believe you were not able to arrive at that ?

A. I was not able to arrive at any percentage ?

Q. In your opinion, as expressed in your report, you think there is a possibility of striking other mines on the line of this tunnel, do you not ?

A. I think there is a possibility, certainly.

Q. Any probability?

A. That is a, question I cannot answer. I do not see any reason why they couldn't strike other veins. Veins show themselves on the surface. They seem, to be large.

Q. How many veins did you see there between the mouth of the tunnel and the Comstock?

A, Three. , Q. What were they?

A. The first was the vein in which the Solferino mine is situated.

Q. That is the nearest to the Comstock?

A. Yes. The next was the Monte Christo, on which was situated the Occidental and the St. John's, and sundry other mines. And the third we have down as the claims that we examined, formerly worked by Dr. Buncher. It is east of the Monte Christo.

Q. What value do you think there is in any of these veins? Did you see any evidence of any value ?

A. Oh, yes. E Q. What?

A. One running from the Solferino mine, which they were then, working, and one in the St. John's mine.

Q. Who was working the Solferino?

A. I don't know who it was.

Q. How much ore were they getting out ?

.A. Very little. They were working in a rude way.

Q. How wide was the ledge?

A. That I don't know. I didn't inquire particularly about it.

Q. You didn't go down into it?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know whether it was six inches wide or twelve ?

A. I don't know how wide the vein was, hut there were indications of the general lode upon the surface.

Q. They got some rich assays out of that. It has broken every man that ever stuck to it long enough.

A. They were hoisting up ore and testing it, and they got out the gold first.

Q. They got some very rich assays from that. Now, about the Occidental. That is on the Monte Christo. Were they working that?

A. They were not.

Q. Do you know anything about its value?

A. I do not. It was sold out some time ago, and was purchased by Colonel Pair. Perhaps some others were connected with him. He told me, with others, that he was going to work it again.

Q. He didn't want the tunnel to meet it, did he ?

A. He didn't say anything about it.

Q. Don't you know it is very much poorer on the level of the lower tunnel than it was above, where it was worked ?

A. No ; I don't know positively.

Q. Well, it is not worked at all on the level of the low tunnel ?

A. It isn't worked at all at the present time.

Q. It never has been. How much space?-

A. No very large space. There were some stopes in the lower tunnel, according to my recollection.

Q. What was your information as to whether it would pay at all ?

A. My information was that it had not paid, for the company had sold it out.

Q. The Solferino has sold out too, I suppose?

A. I don't know. I will say that the people of Gold Hill and Virginia City have no confidence in anything but in the Comstock. . It would be hard to induce them to put money in that mine.

Q. Do you know why Dr. Buncher has stopped working his mine there ?

A. I understood he had a very small capital, and that he was driven out by water.

Q. Speaking of this tunnel as an exploring work, of what considerable advantage would it be to any of these veins, or to the Comstock, to run a single drift at right angles across the vein ?

A. It would enable an exploration of these veins to the right and left, at comparatively small expense, at a great depth.

. Q. Did you go into the lowest tunnel running into the Comstock ?

A. I think we did; if I recollect aright it was in the Gould and Curry. There has been a cave-in in* General Van Bokelen's; there had been a cave-in in it, and he was not willing to enter it himself.

Q. Do you know what was the information upon the question of that ever having developed anything?

A. I understood it had developed nothing. They passed through the vein at a barren point.

Q. Then you think it very possible, General, to run through a vein like the Comstock with a single drift without encountering any ore at all ?

A. The chances are that you.; will pass through a barren spot, as the barren portions far exceed the ore-paying portions.

Q. I will ask you as to the character of these superintendents with whom you came in contact while you were there?

A. Well, I considered them as entirely reliable men,

men of a high order of intelligence, and I was satisfied that the information they gave us, so far as facts were concerned, was correct, or as nearly correct as they could make it. They believed it to be correct. As far as their opinions went we did not always agree with tliem, as shown in our report.

Q. Are not the books of the different mining companies kept in such «a manner that they know, by reference to them, all the facts that they pretend to state in their reports?

A. I so understand it. The books that we looked at were kept in great detail, much greater than I had expected to find.

Q. What have you to say as to their skill in mining and conducting the business of the companies which they control ? • • -

A. They all appeared to me to be able men, and I have no doubt they conducted the business as economically as they well can, and to the satisfaction of the companies, or they would substitute others for them.

Q. What was your opinion as to the mode of their mining?- Did you have any improvement to suggest upon the present mode of working the Comstock?

A. Well, I suggested the use of compressed air to a certain extent, and the use of machine drills in the place of hand drills.

Q. Both those improvements might be introduced without running the Sutro tunnel, might they not?

A. Of course they could be used in either way of operating the mines.

Q. What kind of drills are used in the- Sutro tunnel?

A. When we were the^e they were conducting their operations on a small scale, in the same manner in which they were conducted in the mines.

Q. In the same manner and with the same kind of drills?

A. Yes ; hand drills.

Q. Double drills — that is, one man holds a drill, and the other strikes ?

A. As a general rule, yes.

Q. There has been a question raised here as to whether there was sufficient capital on the Pacific coast to operate these mines. Did you see any evidence of want of capital there for any purpose?

A. I did not ; but I don't know the amount of capital on the Pacific coast, of course.

Q. Well, at Virginia City or Gold Hill?

A. I saw no evidence of want capital either there or in California,

Q. Did you observe an*y evidence of any such jealousies between different mining companies there as to interfere with the effective and effectual working of the mines ?

A. I cannot say that I did. I thought, as a general rule, they worked together whenever it was for their mutual interests. In certain cases I know they did.

Q. Sometimes where they did not like each other very well?

A. I think very likely. Their interests generally control them.

Q. The accuracy of these reports has been attacked, and particularly the report of Captain Day. Have you any rea^ son to doubt the accuracy of his report, as far as he gives the cost of pumping and the cost of drifting and sinking of shafts?

A. I have not.

Q. Will you state now whether there is any difference in cost of raising a ton of water, by pumping or otherwise, and a ton of ore ?

A. There must be a great difference ordinarily.

Q. Why?

A. In pumping, the power is in constant action ; water is constantly being raised. In the other case it is done intermittently. The application of power to the raising of ore in the different mines is not, as a general rule, as economical as in pumping; and, as explaining the first part 28

of my answer, I would say that the expense of raising 500 tons a day by hoisting, or 100 tons, is not as one to five.

Q. About what would be the difference?

A. That I could not give in figures; but as many engineers, firemen, &c., have to be employed for 100 tons as for 500. They must have the same power. They may have less boiler capacity, but they must have the same power to hoist 100 tons as 500.

Q. Will there be any difference in the cost of raising 600 tons per day and 100, except as to the consumption of fuel?

A. There will be something in the wear and tear, besides the use of oils, &c.

Q. That would be inconsiderable, though, would it not?

A. Yes, compared with the other cost.

Q. "What quantity of ore do you think would be hoisted in twenty-four hours through two compartments in a shaft by a double cage ?

A. I have no means of knowing. About 250 tons of ore is as much as they generally raise; but if so much could be delivered,! should think they could hoist 600 tons through two compartments.

Q. You refer to Mr. Atwood in your report, General. Do you know what position he occupies in the Oomstock ?

A. The information in reference to Mr. Atwood was obtained entirely by a single member of the commission, not myself. As I understand it, he is now on the Eberhart mine, in White Pine.

Q. Where do you get that information from, that he is on the Eberhart ?

A. It was obtained from one of the members of the commission, who saw him, and had the interview. I did not see him myself, and could say nothing as to personal knowledge.

Q. He was working the Eberhart in San Francisco, was he not, when that information was obtained?

A. That is more than I can say.

Q. Well, that was obtained in San Francisco?

A. That is more than I know.

Q. Was any member of the commission at White Pine?

A. No.

Q. The Eberhart is at White Pine?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then the information from Mr. Atwood was not gained at White Pine ?

A. It was not gained at White Pine. I am not sure whether it was gained at Virginia City, or San Francisco, or New York. My impression is that it was got at Virginia City or Gold Hill, but I am not certain. The information and notes were brought to us by Dr. ^Tewcomb, who met him. I did not see him, and I think General Foster did not.

Q. There has been an attempt here, General, to discredit the present mode of working the Comstock, and to create a prejudice against the present owners of the Comstock, on account of their stock-jobbing, as one witness has said :

" "When they have Ore in the mines, they are generally worked for the benefit of the stockholders; when they have no ore, the mines are worked in San Francisco."

Do you know anything about that?

A. I do not. I have heard it stated there often, however, that stock was purchased in these mines not for purposes of investment, but for purposes of speculation, and that seemed to be the general idea. That is about all I know in reference to the management.

Q. It has been said that, when ore is discovered in a mine, the parties in control take advantage of the other stockholders and buy the stock. Do you know anything about that?

A. I cannot say that I do. There was one instance in which it was supposed that a strike had been made in the Belcher, and one individual connected with it, as soon ashe heard of the strike, purchased stock; at least he informed me that he did; and he informed me next day that he had lost money on it..

Q. Were you in the Belcher ?

A. I did not go into the Belcher at all.

Q. Don't you know that that body of ore was found in .the Crown Point, and then ran across the line i^to the Belcher?

A. It was supposed to be a continuation of the Crown Point. It proved to be a very small deposit.

Q. When ore is discovered, its discovery must necessarily be by running a drift or a shaft, or by sinking a winze, or by drilling?

A. Yes.

Q. Well, somebody has got to know that first, haven't they?

A. Certainly.

Q. Anything unnatural in the first man that finds it not buying stock ? .

A. I don't see anything unnatural.

Q. Is there anything wrong in it ?

A. I don't know that I would like to give an opinion on a moral question. Men will do it. I rather distrust my judgment on such points.

Q. Well, supposing this thing to be wrong, and all these men who control the Comstock to be great rascals, as< Mr. Sutro claims, do you think the moral influence of the tunnel would do away with all that? Wouldn't you discover the ore in the tunnel in the same way, if the tunnel were in, as now?

A. I do not see why not, exactly in the same way, and why there would not be the same advantages taken by somebody; and I do not see why not by the same parties.

Q. If the parties who now control the Comstock mines continue to control them, would the running of the tunnel effect any revolutions in that respect ?

A. I don't see how it could. They will get the first information when they can.

Hearing Saturday Evening, March Sd.

• Re-cross-examination of Gen. Wright.

Mr. SUTRO. General Wright, you stated, in answer to a question by Mr. SunderlancTj that the draught between Crown Point and Yellow Jacket is very strong?

Mr. WRIGHT. I did.

Q. How far are these shafts apart, General?

A. I do not remember at all. It could easily be measured on the map, and the exact distance be found.

Q. The map gives about 600 feet?

A. I should suppose that would be about it.

Q. There is no difficulty in drifting a distance of 600 feet? In connecting these shafts each drift would have to go 300 feet?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. There would be no difficulty in extending such a drift every 100 feet of descent, every level they open ?

A. At every level; no difficulty whatever.

Q. ISTow, supposing you wanted to explore the Comstock lode between two distant points, where there is no intervening shaft, say, for instance, between the Hale and ISTorcross shaft and the Imperial shaft, how would you go to work to ventilate that mine?

A. I should ventilate it by forcing air into the drifts by means of machinery placed upon the surface.

Q. That would then be artificial ventilation entirely?

A. Yes, of course.

Q. And very difficult ventilation ?

A. I don't think very difficult ventilation. It would be purely artificial ventilation. I should not consider it as difficult ventilation, because the Sutro Tunnel Company have run their drift in about half a mile, and their working is by means of air forced in, and it is perfectly good air. *

Q. General, do you know that there is any difference in driving in air horizontally or perpendicularly, when you use these force blowers?

A. There would probably be some more difficulty in getting it down to the level than there would be in running it horizontally..

Q. Isn't the resistance greater in the case of driving it down ?

A. Certainly; somewhat greater.

Q. Isn't heat generated by compressing air?

A. As you compress air you of course generate heat, in accordance with a well-known law.

Q. Then it would be an exceedingly difficult thing to bring about natural ventilation "between two distant shafts? The case of the Yellow Jacket and Crown Point would not apply there ?

A. It would be impossible to establish an air connection, unless you had an absolute connection between the two shafts.

Q. If you want to ventilate a mine thoroughly, you have to make a connection at each level you open, say each 100 feet in depth ?

A. Certainly.

J

Q. Would you consider it judicious or advisable to drift 3,000 feet at every 100-foot level, in order to bring about a natural ventilation?

A. If it could not be attained otherwise, you would be compelled to do it. These prospecting drifts naturally become Ventilating drifts when connections are made. By operating from the surface, as at present, you must have artificial ventilation, in my judgment.

Q. ISTow, General, supposing that tunnel were constructed, and these drifts run along the lode, as is proposed to be done, and shafts extended down from the surface to the lateral drift, which would be greatly facilitated by having bore holes put down first?

A. Yes.

Q. Would it not be the rational way of working these

mines to put down a shaft, say at least every 1,000 feet, and then connect these, and thus bring about natural ventilation?

A. I have no doubt you would get much better ventilation in that. way. I doubt, then, that I can give my views in answer to that question any better than they are expressed by the "commission, in its report, and I should prefer to answer the question in that way. The commission says, on page 7, the second paragraph:

"It is therefore the opinion of the commission that, while the proposed tunnel would increase and improve the ventilation of the mines, and possibly dispense with the use of some part of the means for artificial ventilation now employed, it is not a necessity for ventilation. Even with all the aid that the tunnel can he expected to afford, it is the opinion ©f the commission that mechanical ventilation hy blowers, operated by steam or other power, would still be needed at the headings and in the scopes where the air from the tunnel would not penetrate.

"According to natural laws, as at present understood and received, the air entering the proposed tunnel will pass through it and up the shafts of the mines, by the easiest and therefore by the most direct channels, thereby conferring little, if any, benefit upon the stopes and drifts not,in the line of such direct. transit. Hence the necessity which is assumed for a continuance of mechanical ventilation for certain portions of the mines after the completion of the tunnel."

Q. General, that answers the question in regard to ventilation to some extent, but that is not altogether what I want to get at. I want to get at your opinion in regard to bringing about such ventilation as you have seen between the Yellow Jacket and the Crown Point, which are 600 feet apart; and my question is, whether it would not be necessary to extend a number of these shafts down, in order to make these drifts between these different shafts at a great number of places?

A. I don't see the necessity of connecting the Hale'and Korcross mine, for instance, with the Imperial.

Q. How would they explore all that part of the lode between the Hale and Norcross and the Imperial mine in depth from the surface down, operating from the surface, if they have not natural ventilation ?

A. They must do it by means of shafts.

Q. Is it not economical, judicious, advisable to sink a shaft down every 1,000 feet along the lode?

A. I should say that, if it were determined to explore all the lode between the Hale and Norcross and the Imperial, it would be necessary to sink shafts at certain intervals, and probably not greater than 1,000 feet apart, probably less. It would be more economical to have them at even less distances apart.

Q. Would not the same principle apply in the exploration of that portion between the Gould and Curry mine and the Ophir mine ?

A. I should say so, decidedly.

Q. "Would it not also apply to all that part of the lode between the Ophir mine and the Sierra Nevada mine, or the Utah mine? Would it not be necessary, in order to explore the Comstock lode judiciously and intelligently, to sink shafts down every 1,000 feet?

A. Certainly, it would.

Q. Then, would it not be judicious to sink shafts similarly between the Crown Point mine and the south end of the Overman?

A. I don't recollect the distances there, but I should say generally, for a thorough exploration of the Comstock lode, operating from the surface, it -would be judicious and economical to have shatts at intervals of say 1,000 feet.

Q. That is about the general idea, as an intelligent mining proposition ?

A. I should say so, decidedly.

Q. Then, if those shafts are down, the difficulty would not be great in bringing about connections between them?

A. Certainly not.

Q. Provided that tunnel is in and these lateral drifts extended along the lode, will it not be much easier to make those shafts than it will be under the present system of working, by letting the water out below?

A. It would, to the extent of having the drainage performed by the tunnel without the intervention of machinery.

Q. Could not these shafts be constructed by going clown from the surface, and going up from below, by making

accurate surveys, and connecting them in that manner, by getting two points of attack ?

A. I would not like to answer that question.

Q. Do you see any difficulty about it as far as yon know?

A. I wouldn't like to express an opinion upon the point. I never have given it any consideration. I should myself rather question the practicability of excavating a shaft of a given shape up vertically as easily.

Q. I did not say as easily, but I want to know whether it can be done ?

A. Oh, I think it can be done. I think it is a possibility.

Q. I now want to get at your opinion with regard to the facility with which that shaft can be made — whether it would be as easy from the bottom or from the top?

A. I should say not, very decidedly. I think you would have difficulty in getting miners to operate upon a shaft of that kind.

Q. Are not all mining operations on the lode carried on in such a manner that they first sink down their shaft to a given level, then drift off to the vein, and then mine upwards to the next level above ?

A. Yes.

Q. Do they not let the ore fall down to the level upon which they are working, and then convey it to the shaft, .and hoist it up?

A. They do.

Q. Then, why should there be any difficulty in going up from the tunnel, in constructing a shaft ?

A. I think there would be a great difference between the two operations of mining out a certain chamber and carrying up a rectangular hole of say 1,000 feet.

Q. What do you think would be the difficulty in the survey ?

A. None whatever in the survey. I think they can be made to join with sufficient accuracy without any great difficulty. It would be the objection of the miners to

working in such a place, with such a mass of earth overhead.

Q. The danger of caves ?

A. I think they would fear the danger of the rock falling upon them.

Q. Isn't there the same danger in those stopes?

A. I think not.

Q. The rock caves in sometimes?

A. 'Well, they can easily get out of the way there.

Q. Could they not make small chambers outside of that shaft, say two feet in, to stand in?

A. They certainly could do that; but that would be one of the difficulties.

Q. It would make a little extra expense. Do you know that, in the Harz mountains, they constructed a shaft, which they started at half a dozen different levels, and connected within half an inch ?

A. I can understand that, if they all went down. There would be no surveying difficulties.

Q. Then, your opinion is, if there were shafts down every 1,000 feet, it would greatly facilitate mining operations and ventilation?

A. I should think so, certainly.

Q. Then, did you say that those shafts could be sunk much easier by having bore-holes down, first connecting with the tunnel?

A. Undoubtedly. You get rid of the water.

Q. Then that would relieve the miners of the greatest expense in making those shafts, because they wouldn't require machinery for pumping?

A. It would relieve them from one great source of expense, whether the greatest or not I cannot say.

Q: Then the tunnel would be very important in that regard, in order to thoroughly explore the Comstock lode and bring about this system of ventilation ?

A. It certainly has its advantages for drainage, just to the extent of what the drainage would cost.

Q. Yes ; but what I mean to say is, that it would facilitate

the construction of these shafts every 1,000 feet to a very large extent ?

A. Oh, undoubtedly.

Q. Then, after these shafts be constructed, there would be no further difficulty in bringing about ventilation between all these different shafts, and making a thorough exploration of the lode down to the tunnel level?

A. I think you would get a pretty thorough system of artificial ventilation in certain parts, wherever this connection "is direct; but wherever you run off from this by your drifts, you must make use of artificial ventilation, whether that ventilation be operated from the tunnel level or from the surface above.

Q. All that I wish to get at in the questions I have asked, General, is whether, after the tunnel is in, the facilities would not be immensely greater for sinking these shafts, which would facilitate the ventilation of those parts of the Comstock lode which want exploring ?

A. If they are to be explored, certainly.

Q. That is all, in regard to that subject. Mr. Sunder-lond has laid great stress upon the fact that there is no water in the Sierra Nevada mine or the Chollar mine near the surface. You stated that they were working neat-the surface, and he asked you, and also the other commissioners, whether you saw any water there. Now, is it very likely there would be any water near the surface, where they have got shafts down from 500 or 600 feet to 1,000 feet and more ?

A. Well, I think there is no water here, simply because all the water that they hav,e tapped has been drawn off already.

Q. Well, would not the water find its way in the Chol-lar mine down to this deep shaft ? ."Would there be any water left in the upper part of that mine where they are working ?

A. That shaft, in my opinion, would be very soon filled up. It is not absolutely impermeable to water, but 1 think the leakage would be a very small affair.

Q. I don't exactly understand your answer.

A. If there is any amount of water in the Chollar mine at any of the upper levels, it would be running into that shaft, and would soon fill up the shaft.

Q. Would it fill it up if there were mines again beyond that, where it could only rise to a certain height, and then run off into the other ?

A. But that is not the case.

Q. General, supposing you had a common well 100 feet deep, with say 20 feet of water in it, and you would go to work and sink another well alongside, 20 feet deep from the surface only, would you consider it a most wonderful thing if there were no water in that 20-foot well ?

A. It would depend entirely upon the character of the ground.

Q. Well, in ordinary rock, such rock as is on the Comstock lode?

A. I don't think the water comes from the rock at all. It would depend entirely upon where the water comes from into tins deeper well. If it comes from the bottom, I should say the lesser well would not contain any water.

Q. Supposing it were any ordinary rock, could there be anyfwater in a well 20 feet deep alongside another 100 feet deep?

A. If it were to fill up say to 95 feet in the deep well, it would be 15 feet deep in the lesser well.

Q. If there is 15 feet of water in the deep well, and you sink another well only 20 feet deep from the surface alongside of it, would it be probable that you would find water in the shallow well?

A. I must know something more about it; otherwise, there is no answer to the question. If the water stands at the height of only 15 feet in your well 100 feet deep, the source of that water is more than 85 feet below the surface.

Q. Couldn't any portion of the water come from the top down?

A. Undoubtedly; but it would fill your well to a greater

height than 15 feet. There is no reason why it should stop at a height of 15 feet.

Q. I simply wanted to illustrate the impossibility of having water in the upper working of the Chollar mine when they have a shaft down alongside of it which is 1,200 feet in depth.

A. I don't think that that follows at all. I think that if they made further explorations, perhaps, in the Chollar inine^ they might strike reservoirs of water that never yet have been pierced.

Q. Wouldn't it run off into that deeper part?

A. It would until that deeper part filled up.

Q. Would that amount to any evidence about the non- •exi stence of water in those parts ? When you were asked whether you saw any water in the upper workings of that mine, you testified you did not.

A. My answer was, in answer to a question of fact, that there was no water there. According to all the statements we received in reference to the Chollar mine, water had been met with at the different levels as they went down> That water from each body they struck had been exhausted as they went down, and when they returned to these upper levels, after abandoning the lower part, they worked in a dry lode.

Q. You are now answering what I wanted to get at. Would it be probable, then, that they would find any water, at the time you we're there, in those upper levels ?

A. I think they may find it still.

Q. By drifting off?

A. Yes, and striking new bodies of water that have never yet been tapped.

Q. Were they making any new drifts in the Chollar mine at that point when you were there ?

A. That is more than I can say. I do not think that they were prospecting. They were engaged in mining ore.

Q. We have shown here, and in fact the reports show it, that there is water, and sometimes a great deal of water, in the deep shafts. Mr. Sunderland has asked the question repeatedly

, whether you saw any water either in the Sierra Nevada mine -or the Chollar mine ?

A. I have answered in reference to the Sierra Nevada mine that I did not go into it, and in reference to the Chol-lar mine, on the levels in which they were working, there was none, but in their deep shaft there was water.

Q. What I want to arrive at is, isn't it quite natural that there should be no water standing in that mine when there was a shaft alongside of it 1,200 feet deep ?

A. The water won't stand there, of course. It will run into the deep shaft so long as that shaft has the capacity to retain it.

Q. Is there any wonder about it that you didn't see any water in that mine ?

A. I don't think there is any wonder about it.

Q. That is what I wanted to get at. Isn't it quite natural that there won't be any water there when there is a deeper shaft beside it ?

A. You spoke of the cause of the non-existence of water there, that they have a deep shaft. I say that it is because the water has been drawn off.

Q. Mr. Sunderland wants to show, by asking you a question about some mines, that there is no water there, but I want to know whether there could be any water there when there is a deeper shaft alongside ?

A. I think there may be water still on that level of those mines. They may strike it yet in their search, if they continue prospecting.

Mr. KENDALL. I suppose, General, the point is this : whether or not these deeper shafts do not have a tendency to drain the more shallow workings ?

A. They possibly may have, or may not.

Q. Provided the rock is sufficiently porous to allow drainage from the upper levels to the lower ones ?

A. I don't think it is. The water doesn't appear to exist in that way. Jt exists in pockets or reservoirs surrounded by clay, which is impermeable to water. The moment the miners strike this clay, the water breaks out. I do

not think this condition of things exists where the rock is so porous as to allow the percolation of water through it.

Mr. SUTRO. Mr. Sunderland asked you, General, whether the tunnel would be of any benefit to the Chollar mine, where they are now working, and he asked you whether you saw any water, and your answer to that was, I think, that it would be of no use at the present time?

A. I should say it would be of no use for drainage, if there were no water in the mine. It appeared to be a very obvious answer.

Q. Then it is very important to know whether, if there be any water there, the water would go into the lower shaft ?

A. It certainly would run into the lower shaft unless they stopped it from communication with that shaft and pumped it out.

Q. If the Chollar mine would want to prospect to greater depth than what their prospecting shaft is down now, would you consider that the tunnel would be of any benefit to the Chollar mine for drainage?

A. Certainly; it would be a benefit to the mine as well as to all others.

Q. Mr. Requa states, in his report about that mine, that all the ore which is in sight now would be worked out in three years. Would it take that long to get the tunnel in, or nearly that long ?

A. About that.

Q. Then all the working of that mine would be prospecting afterwards ?

A. If they continue to work it, it. will be all prospecting.

Q. Would they have to pay anything to the tunnel company, in the way you understand it, if they are only prospecting, and not taking out ore ?

A. Nothing at all ; unless they carried out their debris for them, or brought in their timbers.

Q. Well, that is voluntary?

A. Undoubtedly voluntary ; they are not compelled to.

Q. They wouldn't be compelled to pay a single dollar to the tunnel company?

A. ISTo, sir.

Q. Then it would be, under those circumstances, very advantageous to the Chollar company-to have that tunnel in?

A. I should certainly think so ; for the purpose of drainage alone it would be of great importance to it.

Q. It is shown in the report of Mr. Batterman that the Gould and Curry shaft has been sunk 294 feet in the last year, and I think you were asked how long it would take to reach down to the tunnel level at that rate of progress ?

Q. I want to ask you, General, how long do you think it took to get down to that level before they started on that 294 feet, say from the 1,100-foot level ?

A. I have no means of knowing when they commenced at all.

Q. It took a number of years, didn't it ?

A. I have no idea when they commenced that shaft.

Q. Took quite a number of years ?

A. Oh, yes; two or three years, I suppose.

Q. They don't sink all the time, do they?

A. I don't think they do ; that is my impression.

Q. Do you know, General, how deep the shafts were in the mines of the Harz mountains at the time the Ernst August tunnel, which has a length of 14 miles, was commenced ?

A. I don't remember; I think some of them were down 2,000 feet or more. *

Q. Well, they were down some 700 or 800 feet below the tunnel level before they commenced the construction of that tunnel. Then, General, these people there looked upon the advantages which a tunnel would confer as being entirely below the level of that tunnel ?

A. They must have looked upon this tunnel as a new departure, I presume.

Q. In other words, a new basis of operations ?

A. Undoubtedly; they so stated it.

Q. In fact they constructed that tunnel to pnmp the water from-tho lower depths to that level, and bring their ore in there, and they constructed a canal in it.

A. Yes; that tunnel has a canal, and all their water is raised to that level.

Q. Do you know whether the shafts in the Freiberg mines were much deeper than the Rotheshoeneberger tunnel, where they commenced it?

A. N"o, sir. I am not at all familiar with them, except in general terms.

Q. The mines were carried down to 2,000 feet, and the tunnel comes in at about 1,100 feet in depth, so they must have been down some 900 feet below the tunnel level ?

A. I presume they were below the tunnel, although I do not remember now.

Q. Do you not so understand it that in England and in ,s.ther countries, where mining is carried on on a pretty extensive scale, they calculate -the depth of their shafts vrorn the tunnel level down ?

A. I think it is so.

Q. Then, according to that, -we have not fairly touched the Comstock lode yet. We are going to establish a new basis of operations when the tunnel goes in. We are going down, and we are going to count down from that point?

A. I think, as the water and ore would all be raised to that height, they would undoubtedly count the depth from the tunnel level.

Q. Then what is above the tunnel would become' really to be counted as surface?

A. Well, I am under the impression that they will prospect all above the tunnel before they will go below it.

Q. Do you think that the Comstock lode can be thoroughly prospected its whole length of four or five miles in 100 years ?

A. Oh, I have no idea at all. I wouldn't be willing to give an opinion as to that. It depends entirely upon the 29

energy with which it is prospected and the money that can be got for the purpose. I think myself, from what I saw there, that there are certain parts of the Comstock lode, between the Sierra Nevada on the north and the Overman on the south, that will never be prospected any further than they have been already.

Q. Do you know that the Yeta Madre of .Guanajuato, in Mexico, has been abandoned, during the last three hundred years, a dozen times, and re-prospected and new bodies of ore found?

A. I knew that a good many of the mines in Mexico have been abandoned over and over again. They have been abandoned generally, as I understand it, on account of what they considered insurmountable difficulties. !N"ew machinery has been put in, and the mines have been worked again, often with great success, until the power of the machinery which they put up was exhausted, or until they had reached the limit of that power.

Q. Don't you think, General, that it will require hundreds of miles, or even' thousands of miles, of drifts on that Comstock lode to thoroughly explore it from one end to the other down to the tunnel level?

A. To thoroughly explore the whole lode from the surface to the tunnel level would require, yes, thousands of miles of drifts, undoubtedly.

Q. They have probably hundreds of miles now?

A. I presume there are several hundred now.

Q. Several years ago the number was estimated at 75 miles. Then the tunnel would open up an entirely new basis of operations to go down, about which we know nothing yet — to which we have not yet penetrated?

A. If operated by the tunnel, certainly everything would refer to that level.

Q. Do you know Anything about those great tunnels in Europe, whether the government took any part in them ?

A. In several of the German tunnels, I know that the government took part. As I understand it, as a rule the

German mines are, to a certain extent, under the supervision and management of the government.

Q. To some extent; not entirely. The mines in Freiberg are owned by private individuals to a certain extent?

A. Yes; but the government has a certain amount of supervision or control over them; but what the extent of that is I am not prepared to say.

Q. Are you aware. General, that, in Freiberg, the erection of the reduction works has been helped by the gov-ment?

A. I do not know specifically about the reduction works.

Q. Do you know anything about the Mont Cenis tunnel, which is simply a railroad tunnel, whether government assistance was given there?

A. Government assistance was given both by France and Italy.

Q. Do you know anything about the Hoosac tunnel, in Massachusetts? Did they receive any any State aid?

A. I know the State has furnished a large amount of aid to the tunnel, and at the present time it has full control. The present amount, I think, is somewhere about four and five millions of dollars.

Q. Isn't the whole amount which the State of Massachusetts has advanced about $7,000,000 ?

A. I don't know the amount.

Mr. SESSIONS. I think it is over $7,000,000.

Mr. SUTRO. What is the object of the tunnel?

A. It is to establish railroad communication through the Hoosac range. It is a railroad running from Troy to Boston.

Q. It will cheapen transportation ?

A. They assume that it will save the grade which exists upon what is called the Western railroad — I think the railroad from Greenbush to Boston.

Q. It has been stated, that the construction of that tunnel will reduce the freight on a barrel of flour two cents. Do you know anything about that ?

A. I have heard such statements. I cannot vouch for the figures, as I have never entered into the calculations.

Q. "Would you consider the Hoosac tunnel as of as much importance to Massachusetts as the Sutro tunnel to Nevada?

A. They are two different things that do not admit of a comparison at all.

Q. As far as interests are involved?

A. If that is an answer to the question, I take more interest in the Sutro tunnel.

Q. Well, is not «the question of wealth that is to be created or developed — the question of the developing the mining regions — of immensely greater importance in the one case than in the other?

A. I think it depends entirely upon the view one takes of the matter. An opinion upon such a question is necessarily a speculative one.

Q. How much money, General, do you think would be taken from the Comstock lode. Have you any idea?

A. Not the remotest.

Q. Could you guess?

A- Ko, sir; I never guess.

Q. Do you think there is money enough there to pay the national debt?

A. I think there may be enough to pay it ten times Qver, or you may not find a dollar below the level they are working now.

Q. Do you think that is probable ?

A. I do not.

Q. Don't you think it is probable they will find the ore down to indefinite depth ?

A. I think so. The evidence, so far as it goes, is entirely in favor of that view.

Q. You have stated in your report that, if no water power be secured at the mouth of the tunnel and concentrating works erected, the commission could advise the continuance of the present mode of working. How did

you arrive at that result? Was it on the basis of the reports furnished you by the superintendents?

A. Undoubtedly. It is so stated in the report.

Q. Supposing it could be demonstrated that those reports are not correct, would it change your opinion?

A. It might, or it might not. I should have to make a new comparison, and, although discrepencies might be discovered, the judgment might be the same. But I can understand that it might be so changed that my opinion would be changed entirely.

Q. Supposing it could be shown clearly, to your satisfaction, that the cost of pumping on the Comstock lode would amount to more than §1,000,000 per annum, would that change your opinion ? You estimate the cost at $124,000.

A. In certain calculations that we made, we assumed the cost at the present mode of operations to be a little over §1,750,000. If it could be shown that the cost of pumping was over §1,000,000, it would change that result to one favorable to the tunnel, instead of unfavorable.

Q. Supposing it could be shown to cost §2,000,000?

A. It would be still more.

Q. Supposing there were still other items brought in, that would amount to several millions of dollars,, wouldn't that change it very much?

A. Certainly; any change of a million or more would change it.

Q. Gould you tell what becomes of the §15,000,000 which are extracted from ^the Comstock lode per annum, while the expenses for hoi^ting^ for transportation, for pumping, and for hoisting and lowering the men, is only given at §1,000,000, and the average-profit is only §1,000,000, which make §2,000,000? t Can you tell what becomes of the other §13,000,000?

A. Well, there are a great many other items of the cost of mining — the timbering, the reduction of ores, and all those things.

Q. Do you think that amounts to §13,000,000 a year?

A. I haven't an idea.

Q. You didn't take that into your calculation?

A. Of course not. That was no part of the duty imposed upon the commission.

Q. You have stated, in reply to a question by Mr. Sunderland, that labor and materials are much dearer with us than they are in Germany? Isn't that another argument in favor of introducing self-acting reduction and concentrating machinery at the mouth of the tunnel ?

A. Undoubtedly it is.

Q. You say that the water-rights are owned by the mines and private parties?

A. Yes.

Q. After the tunnel is in, and the mines would be worked legitimately and for the benefit of stockholders, wouldn't the stockholders insist on adopting the most economical plan?

A. I should suppose that they would always.

Q. IsTow, supposing the present owners of these water rights would be offered the same power at the mouth of the tunnel, wouldn't self-interest make them accept, according to all common reasoning?

. A. I believe they will act according to their own interests.

Q. Are not men actuated generally by their own interests ?

A. Undoubtedly.

<3fc. Supposing all the mills on Carson river would be given the same power at the mouth of the tjjunnel, would we not still have a very large amount of power for other purposes ?

A. Yes, most unquestionably so; always provided that that reservoir is possible. *

Q. Wouldn't that surplus power at the tunnel, after giving all the power which these people have, be sufficient to answer all the purposes of reduction and concentration and condensing air for the ventilation of the mines, and everything else, to work the Comstock lode ?

A. Well, I think that the water that can bo obtained from the Carson river and the drainage of the mines will be sufficient for all purposes connected with the Comstock.

Q. At the point which you examined there, on the Carson river, near the Franklin mill, would you consider there would be any difficulty in making a dam there?

A. I don't consider there is any difficulty in making a dam there.

Q. Couldn't a dam be constructed there that would withstand any pressure created by the water? •

A. Most unquestionably.

Q. Well, do you see that there is any serious engineering difficulty in making that dam?

A. I should think not.

Q. Don't you, on the contrary, consider it a very simple and feasible undertaking?

A. The committee consider it a rather large thing, but not a difficult one at all.

Q. What do you think, General, would be the cost of the dam? Mr. Day, states it at $200,000.

A. It would be utterly impossible to say. , Q. Wonld you consider that an under-estimate ?

A. My answer must be a mere guess. I should think it was an under-estimate.

Q. How much more, at a rough guesa, should you think it would possibly cost ?

A. I sh'ould prefer to increase it one-half.

Q. You think it would cost $300,000, probably?

Q. It has been stated that it will co.st 25 cents per ton a mile to carry out ore, or waste rock, to the mouth of the tunnel. Is that compulsory on the mines ? Need they take their rock out that way ?

A. They needn't take anything out that way.

Q. It is optional with them?

A. Entirely, as I. understand it.

Q. Would you not consider it highly judicious for the

tunnel company to reduce that down to such a rate as would be acceptable, if it be considered necessary.

A. I should think, if it is necessary, in order that they should get business, they would reduce it down to any fair paying tariff.

Q. This is a maximum charge?

A. They cannot charge any more.

Q. But they can charge as much less as they please?

A. Undoubtedly. If they cannot get 25 cents, and can carry it at a profit for 10, then they would come down.

Q. Don't you think the tunnel company would reduce these prices, so as to make it advantageous to both parties?

A. I think they will do that which makes it most advantageous to themselves.

Q. Wouldn't that be to put down the prices to so low a rate as to bring about the largest transportation through the tunnel?

A. I think they will put down the rate so as to secure the business and do it profitably, but not one cent beyond.

Q. There was a contract between the tunnel company and the mining companies ?

A. I know there was a contract, and I believe that the. prices were named j in other words, I believe that, in the act granting franchises to the tunnel company, Congress adopted the tariff which was given in the original contract between the mining companies and the tunnel company.

Q. Congress ratified the contract?

A. I couldn't say that. They ratified the charges.

Q. Did the Union Mill and Mining Corjpany give you the cost of milling ?